Psychics and Missing People - Page 11

YoPopa · 13th March 2006, 08:15 AM

Kelly,

My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it.

As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned.

P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever

Kelly · 13th March 2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

I ought to mention, Kelly, I put a mention of your site on the EveryTruckJob.com forum. Hopefully, that will generate some more hits, and get the word out.

Thanks, RT...you da truckin man. Since we do interface with the trucking industry because of our 18 Wheel Angels program, they should have at least heard of us, but not in this respect.

I hope things are going better for you.

Kelly · 13th March 2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by YoPopa

Kelly,

My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it.

As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned.

P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever

FowlSound, FowlSound, where fore art thou, FowlSound? He's locked in a domain name, but needed to convince GoDaddy to allow a slight change which would be psychicpredators.com. Hopefully, they will do so before someone snatches the name.

Thank you for the reminder and for the well wishes. Claus and FS are the primaries on the website work. Feel free to see if they need any extra help with that.

Kelly · 13th March 2006, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

Now we're getting somewhere.

The longer the diaolog, the better. It shows how a psychic will use maxiumum verbosity, counting on the victim to remember the hits and forget the misses.

I read your encounter with Sharon Nolte. Three hours! Same thing. Gibber on incessantly, using what information you gave her to weave a giant tapestry of B.S. in the hopes something will ring "true" for you later on, or to plant an idea in your head that just won't go away, causing you to seek confirmation.

Any chance we can take a look at this IM dialog? It should be made public, and let me tell you why.

That's why any dialog you have, Kelly, is of utmost importance. It will help other people see it's all the same old B.S.

If they have heard it before, they will recognize it immediately. If they haven't heard it yet, they will recognize it when they hear it again.

Either way, it will snap people back to reality.

HI Luke,

The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you.

Do you think I should publish it here, too?

I wouldn't be able to do either one until this evening, as I cannot access my read home emails from work.

I'm sorry for all that your wife went through, but glad you wre able to help her see the light.

I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you?

Luke T. · 13th March 2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

HI Luke,

The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you.

Okay, email it to me. I will PM Meg to see if she wants any help.

Quote:

I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you?

For a psychic, even bad press is good press. The less she is in the news, the better. It means she isn't getting any traction.

RSLancastr · 13th March 2006, 06:10 PM

I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!).

I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people.

For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities.

But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives.

Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration.

If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already.

-RSL

Luke T. · 13th March 2006, 06:16 PM

Woo hoo!

Luke T. · 13th March 2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already.

Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims.

Kelly · 13th March 2006, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!).

I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people.

For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities.

But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives.

Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration.

If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already.

-RSL

I would agree! I've had a wonderful, warm welcome, and more help than I'd dreamed of. I didn't know what kind of response I might get, but everyone pitched in and provided valuable information to help with the series. Not only that, but the project also blossomed into a future website.

You are more than welcome to write a guest post on the series, or provide a quote if you'd like. I can also use help with gathering up the best of the best of articles about psychics and missing people for the website.

I am still strongly considering adding a forum to the site and having it moderated by the gentle persuasions of several here who have stepped forward and indicated an interest.

One of my favorite quotes:

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go.” T.S. Elliot

We're stronger working together.

Kelly · 13th March 2006, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims.

Great article, Luke!

It will be very interesting if she gets wind of this and contacts me.

Based upon her foul mouth in the news article, I doubt it would be pretty.

Azrael 5 · 14th March 2006, 08:27 AM

Here we go with another...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm

chillzero · 14th March 2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Azrael 5

Here we go with another...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm

For those who don't know, this is Diane Lazarus - the "winner" of the UK program 'Britain's Psychic Challenge' mentioned before. Her website claims much success in missing persons cases.

However, although it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished, I find it interesting that the mother prefers to cling to the hope that her son is still alive, and she doesn't actually seem to comment either way on Diane's abilities.

Diane's comments were pretty specific, so I am interested to see how this turns out. The whole thing makes me quite angry, as she was also quite graphic.

chillzero · 14th March 2006, 09:07 AM

On further reading, Diane took the mother out on a boat, and covered the same area that the police have just spent 2 weeks diving in.
Grasping.

chillzero · 14th March 2006, 09:41 AM

Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article:

Quote:

In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm

You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.".

I feel this is misleading, and should require firmer journalistic handling. At the least, you should state that :"Diane Lazarus claims to have helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people."

There is no documented evidence, anywhere, that any missing person case has been solved by a psychic. When a psychic claims to have helped the police, this is usually in the form of providing "information" - often unverifiable, or vague. The implication is that the BBC supports the use of psychics in locating missing people, when the focus should be on the legitimate efforts of the police. This particular family claim the police have not done enough, and I feel a report on why they feel that - what the police have contributed, and what operational restrictions the police come under - would be much more informative and constructive to others in the same unfortunate position.

I wonder if you will follow this report up with information should Mr Kelly ever re-appear, with a view to verifying any information against what Diane Lazarus said - precise details only. I don't believe any information has been provided that could not have been guessed at by any reasonable person - that he fell in the water, being between a bar and the docks, on a celebratory holiday. I trust that if he turns up alive - and I sincerely hope he does - that you will revisit this report with another, giving the balancing case when the psychic was clearly wrong. People never seem to be given that kind of information - only vague anecdotes of when they were supposedly correct.

I'll let you know if they respond.

Kelly · 14th March 2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by chillzero

Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article:

I'll let you know if they respond.

Excellent letter, C! I await their response.

Darat · 14th March 2006, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by chillzero

Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article:

I'll let you know if they respond.

I've sent one as well:

Quote:

In the story you state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people."

Yet there is no evidence at all that I can find that Diane Lazarus has ever helped police find any missing person ever. It appears you have merely used a claim she has made without any fact checking. (As far as I am aware there is not one police force in the UK that gives credit to any "psychic" for ever finding any missing person.)

Diane Lazarus may claim that she has "helped" police however since the police are obligated to look into any possible lead anyone can claim they have “helped” the police even if they have only ever spoken to a police officer during the course of an investigation!

However anyone reading your article would come away with the impression that it is a fact that Diane Lazarus has indeed found missing people, surely this is very misleading in a news report?

Kelly · 14th March 2006, 10:27 AM

The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat.

Azrael 5 · 14th March 2006, 05:06 PM

Well I emailed Diane Lazarus a few times to no avail.But then who expects any less?

Luke T. · 14th March 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat.

Merrier it is then. Paraphrased some of the article I wrote and tailored it to the situation. My email to them:

Quote:

I am commenting on your story about a psychic being used to locate a missing person that you posted on your web site here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm

There are a lot of ways a news outlet can draw attention to a missing person case. For example, they can publish the missing person’s photos, give all the details of the disappearance that are known, and interview the police to see what progress has been made. Stick to the facts. With any luck, such a report might trigger a memory in the mind of a witness in the reading audience and lead to a break in the case.

A responsible news organization does not throw the track off the missing person’s disappearance by tripping the light fantastic through the Twilight Zone, repeating what a bloodsucking predator of the grieving parents says occurred, which in all likelihood contradicts what events actually transpired, thereby discouraging witnesses from coming forward. Not when a tragedy of such terrible proportions is at stake. Such gross irresponsibility is beyond the pale.

But that is precisely what you chose to do.

You are giving this psychic predator credibility with the BBC name, and diminishing your credibility with her name.

You are a part of the problem. You are greasing the skids for these creeps to help push people into deeper despair.

Shame, shame, shame on you.

Ducky · 14th March 2006, 07:08 PM

Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website.

Sorry!

*mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work...

Kelly · 14th March 2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by fowlsound

Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website.

Sorry!

*mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work...

That's ok. If there is one lesson I've learned in all of this, it is patience. Good thing come to those who wait, as they say.

I'm not done with my part either, so no guilt.

I am entirely grateful to have all the help!

Kelly

Mr. Stick · 15th March 2006, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by chillzero

.... it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished ......

There was a quite similar case in the danish town Odense, where a young man went missing and was later found in the water, although the initial search failed to find him. In this case, however, the psychic that came forward didn't state the obvious, but instead claimed that the man had been abducted, and was held captive in a basement somewhere in town!
This resulted in his friends starting their own search, even waking up a caretaker in the middle of the night to search a building. All this commotion scared the town, of course, but when it was all over, the psychic didn't think she had done anything wrong!

It's at least a year ago I heard the story in a radio broadcast, and it was also available as a streamed broadcast. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it anymore.

The program was about the use of psychics by the police, and whether they should put manpower into investigating psychic claims. I've contemplated writing a post about this case, so if anybody has a link to the broadcast, it'll be most appreciated. (It was from DR, most likely P1)

Gr8wight · 15th March 2006, 08:59 PM

Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle

This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item.

Kelly · 15th March 2006, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gr8wight

Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle

This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item.

Thank you!

An another round of good exposure. I sent them an email to thank them.

CFLarsen · 15th March 2006, 11:55 PM

KellyJ,

Check your PM.

Kelly · 16th March 2006, 07:25 AM

Our very own chillzero is featured on the blog series today. She tells the story of how she came to rational thinking, and she also does a very good job of addressing the families of the missing in relationship to using psychics.

Thank you, chillzero!

Kelly

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

Kelly · 16th March 2006, 12:16 PM

Poetic justice alert!

I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset.

They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do.

I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying.

I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens.

So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served.

Thanks for listening.

Spidey13 · 17th March 2006, 01:47 PM

Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university.

Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him.

Ryan O'Dine · 17th March 2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Q:How many psychic detectives does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: 1000. 989 to grope around in the dark looking for the darn thing, 1 to be lead by a police officer to the bulb and watch her screw it in, and 10 to crow in the media about how they helped solve the Case of the Unscrewed-In Light Bulb.

Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic.

Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do.

(especially loved the Diego entry)

chillzero · 17th March 2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by chillzero

Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article:

In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm

You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.".
....

I'll let you know if they respond.

John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads:
"Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. "

Kelly · 17th March 2006, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Spidey13

Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university.

Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him.

That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege.

The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag. The reason that I did not make it 100% clear who he is, is because of a bit of nervousness when dealing with people from foreign countries. YOu never know what is their take on respect for life.

Note to self: Get more sleep. Either that, or don't post when half alseep.

Kelly · 17th March 2006, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by chillzero

John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads:
"Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. "

Aw...backing down, I see.

Kelly · 17th March 2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ryan O'Dine

Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic.

Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do.

(especially loved the Diego entry)

HI Ryan, and thank you.

I'm glad you liked the Diego entry. I never dreamed something would come of that one, and so quickly!

Good joke, and so true. It may bear repeating.

Roadtoad · 17th March 2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Spidey13

Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university.

Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him.

Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering.

His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard.

Kelly · 17th March 2006, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering.

His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard.

I don't know anything about the Fxxxxx Scholarship, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the money does come from taxes.

He already has his PHD, the woman told me.

RT: Why don't you just head on down there and make some carefully placed treadmarks?

If you hear on the news that I was shot and killed, you'll know why. (dramatic music plays)

Mr. Stick · 17th March 2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

Our very own chillzero is featured on the blog series today. She tells the story of how she came to rational thinking, and she also does a very good job of addressing the families of the missing in relationship to using psychics.

Thank you, chillzero!

Kelly

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

Excellent piece by chillzero. Very informative and well written. The part about how you can unconciously use cold reading was very interesting.

Kelly · 17th March 2006, 05:22 PM

I'd love to get another one of these arranged:

http://www.csicop.org/si/9511/sting.html

John Jackson · 17th March 2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Stick

Excellent piece by chillzero. Very informative and well written. The part about how you can unconciously use cold reading was very interesting.

I'd like to second that sentiment.

Chillzero's article was an enlightening piece that will serve to not only inform people who are unfortunately in this terrible situation, but also self-professed psychics who (genuinely) think that they can help in these situations and skeptics who need to understand more deeply why certain people think they can genuinely help.

Congratulations chillzero for an excellent piece, and congratulations also to KellyJ for setting up such an important project. Truly inspiring work.

John

Mid · 18th March 2006, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by KellyJ

That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege.

The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag. The reason that I did not make it 100% clear who he is, is because of a bit of nervousness when dealing with people from foreign countries. YOu never know what is their take on respect for life.

Note to self: Get more sleep. Either that, or don't post when half alseep.

Hi Kelly,

I haven't posted before in this thread as I didn't think I had anything to add but I just want to say I'm very impressed with everything you're doing over there. Also, I thought I'd just give you a heads up that although you've now blanked out the link and if you click on it it goes to no where if you hover over the link you can still see the universities web address, I'm not sure whether this was your intention or not but incase it wasn't I thought I'd let you know

Gr8wight · 18th March 2006, 06:47 AM

Given a burned-out light bulb...

Psychic: "I'm getting an impression of height, an impression of reaching up, as if to a ceiling..."

Homeowner: "No, it wasn't a ceiling light."

Psychic: "No, it was a table lamp. Like I said, elevated above the floor."

Homeowner: "No, it wasn't a table lamp."

Psychic: "As I said, it was near a table...one of those free standing floor lamps..."

Homeowner: "No, it came from the light outside my front door."

Psychic: "Exactly as I said; it was above your head."

The next day the psychic's website is updated to include the claim: Assisted homeowner in emergency bulb replacement.

13th March 2006, 08:15 AM	#401
YoPopa Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,484	Kelly, My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it. As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned. P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever
YoPopa Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,484

13th March 2006, 12:54 PM	#405
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716	Originally Posted by KellyJ HI Luke, The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you. Okay, email it to me. I will PM Meg to see if she wants any help. Quote: I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you? For a psychic, even bad press is good press. The less she is in the news, the better. It means she isn't getting any traction.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716

13th March 2006, 06:10 PM	#406
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 17,135	I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!). I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people. For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities. But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives. Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. -RSL
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

13th March 2006, 06:16 PM	#407
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716	Woo hoo!
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716

13th March 2006, 06:18 PM	#408
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716	Originally Posted by RSLancastr If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716

13th March 2006, 12:05 PM	#402
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Roadtoad I ought to mention, Kelly, I put a mention of your site on the EveryTruckJob.com forum. Hopefully, that will generate some more hits, and get the word out. Thanks, RT...you da truckin man. Since we do interface with the trucking industry because of our 18 Wheel Angels program, they should have at least heard of us, but not in this respect. I hope things are going better for you.

13th March 2006, 12:08 PM	#403
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by YoPopa Kelly, My admiration for the work you are doing and my sympathy for the circumstances that led you into it. As of this morning, 3/13, it appears that psychicpredators.com is still not registered. I have heard rumors that squatters will sometimes register a name just because they have sniffed interest in the name by someone else. I don't know if that rumor is valid but you don't need to take the risk. I'm sure that if you delegate the task to one of our members who has volunteered that it could be registered today. I will add my name to the list of volunteers for that task if the others are preoccupied with jobs you've already assigned. P.S. I also favor the name secondwavepredators.com .org .whatever FowlSound, FowlSound, where fore art thou, FowlSound? He's locked in a domain name, but needed to convince GoDaddy to allow a slight change which would be psychicpredators.com. Hopefully, they will do so before someone snatches the name. Thank you for the reminder and for the well wishes. Claus and FS are the primaries on the website work. Feel free to see if they need any extra help with that.

13th March 2006, 12:14 PM	#404
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Luke T. Now we're getting somewhere. The longer the diaolog, the better. It shows how a psychic will use maxiumum verbosity, counting on the victim to remember the hits and forget the misses. I read your encounter with Sharon Nolte. Three hours! Same thing. Gibber on incessantly, using what information you gave her to weave a giant tapestry of B.S. in the hopes something will ring "true" for you later on, or to plant an idea in your head that just won't go away, causing you to seek confirmation. Any chance we can take a look at this IM dialog? It should be made public, and let me tell you why. That's why any dialog you have, Kelly, is of utmost importance. It will help other people see it's all the same old B.S. If they have heard it before, they will recognize it immediately. If they haven't heard it yet, they will recognize it when they hear it again. Either way, it will snap people back to reality. HI Luke, The family did give permission to share it on the blog. I did email it to Meg as (I believe) she is going to place commentary within to demonstrate what the psychic is trying to pull on the family member. If you would like to look at it, too, and maybe collaborate with Meg, I would be happy to email it to you. Do you think I should publish it here, too? I wouldn't be able to do either one until this evening, as I cannot access my read home emails from work. I'm sorry for all that your wife went through, but glad you wre able to help her see the light. I am surprised I see nothing else about SN online. You'd think she'd be in the news now and then, wouldn't you?

13th March 2006, 09:04 PM	#409
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by RSLancastr I haven't been in this, the "General Skepticism" part of the JREF board in a couple of weeks, and so had not seen this thread until KellyJ won the February Language award (congratulations by the way - well-deserved!). I've just got to say how proud I am to be a part of this forum. What you people are all pulling together here, with Kelly at the helm, is nothing less than wonderful. And it will help countless more people than the StopKaz site ever will, since the topic is, sadly, something which effects far more people. For months, I've been thinking about what I might do next, now that Kaz is laying low. And a site about psychics was high on my list of possibilities. But with Kelly's perspective and expertise, she makes this project far more credible and meaningful than it would be from a generic skeptical perspective such as mine. She obviously has the passion and drive to make it work, and with the forum gang behind her, I expect this to be a site that will really make a difference in a lot of lives. Kelly, for you to have taken such pain and suffering and used them to fuel the positive things you do is an inspiration. If there is anything I can do, please let me know. But it looks like you're in very capable hands already. -RSL I would agree! I've had a wonderful, warm welcome, and more help than I'd dreamed of. I didn't know what kind of response I might get, but everyone pitched in and provided valuable information to help with the series. Not only that, but the project also blossomed into a future website. You are more than welcome to write a guest post on the series, or provide a quote if you'd like. I can also use help with gathering up the best of the best of articles about psychics and missing people for the website. I am still strongly considering adding a forum to the site and having it moderated by the gentle persuasions of several here who have stepped forward and indicated an interest. One of my favorite quotes: "Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go.” T.S. Elliot We're stronger working together.

13th March 2006, 09:08 PM	#410
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Luke T. Kelly, this man's kung fu is too strong for charlatans. If you need someone to nail a psychic to the wall, this is your guy. Someone like that Nolte character is right up his alley. In fact, when I read your blog entry about her and the claims she made (related to Nick Nolte), I immediately thought of RSL and Kaz DeMille and her similar claims. Great article, Luke! It will be very interesting if she gets wind of this and contacts me. Based upon her foul mouth in the news article, I doubt it would be pretty.

14th March 2006, 08:27 AM	#411
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,106	Here we go with another... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,106	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

14th March 2006, 08:46 AM	#412
chillzero Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,540	Originally Posted by Azrael 5 Here we go with another... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803388.stm For those who don't know, this is Diane Lazarus - the "winner" of the UK program 'Britain's Psychic Challenge' mentioned before. Her website claims much success in missing persons cases. However, although it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished, I find it interesting that the mother prefers to cling to the hope that her son is still alive, and she doesn't actually seem to comment either way on Diane's abilities. Diane's comments were pretty specific, so I am interested to see how this turns out. The whole thing makes me quite angry, as she was also quite graphic.

14th March 2006, 09:07 AM	#413
chillzero Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,540	On further reading, Diane took the mother out on a boat, and covered the same area that the police have just spent 2 weeks diving in. Grasping.

14th March 2006, 09:41 AM	#414
chillzero Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,540	(sorry for blathering on, here) Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: Quote: In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.". I feel this is misleading, and should require firmer journalistic handling. At the least, you should state that :"Diane Lazarus claims to have helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people." There is no documented evidence, anywhere, that any missing person case has been solved by a psychic. When a psychic claims to have helped the police, this is usually in the form of providing "information" - often unverifiable, or vague. The implication is that the BBC supports the use of psychics in locating missing people, when the focus should be on the legitimate efforts of the police. This particular family claim the police have not done enough, and I feel a report on why they feel that - what the police have contributed, and what operational restrictions the police come under - would be much more informative and constructive to others in the same unfortunate position. I wonder if you will follow this report up with information should Mr Kelly ever re-appear, with a view to verifying any information against what Diane Lazarus said - precise details only. I don't believe any information has been provided that could not have been guessed at by any reasonable person - that he fell in the water, being between a bar and the docks, on a celebratory holiday. I trust that if he turns up alive - and I sincerely hope he does - that you will revisit this report with another, giving the balancing case when the psychic was clearly wrong. People never seem to be given that kind of information - only vague anecdotes of when they were supposedly correct. I'll let you know if they respond.

14th March 2006, 09:47 AM	#415
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by chillzero Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: I'll let you know if they respond. Excellent letter, C! I await their response.

14th March 2006, 09:52 AM	#416
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 115,378	Originally Posted by chillzero Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: I'll let you know if they respond. I've sent one as well: Quote: In the story you state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people." Yet there is no evidence at all that I can find that Diane Lazarus has ever helped police find any missing person ever. It appears you have merely used a claim she has made without any fact checking. (As far as I am aware there is not one police force in the UK that gives credit to any "psychic" for ever finding any missing person.) Diane Lazarus may claim that she has "helped" police however since the police are obligated to look into any possible lead anyone can claim they have “helped” the police even if they have only ever spoken to a police officer during the course of an investigation! However anyone reading your article would come away with the impression that it is a fact that Diane Lazarus has indeed found missing people, surely this is very misleading in a news report?
	__________________ “If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

14th March 2006, 10:27 AM	#417
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat.

14th March 2006, 05:06 PM	#418
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,106	Well I emailed Diane Lazarus a few times to no avail.But then who expects any less?
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 6,106	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

14th March 2006, 06:59 PM	#419
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716	Originally Posted by KellyJ The more the merrier. Hopefully, it will force a response out of them. Thanks, Darat. Merrier it is then. Paraphrased some of the article I wrote and tailored it to the situation. My email to them: Quote: I am commenting on your story about a psychic being used to locate a missing person that you posted on your web site here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm There are a lot of ways a news outlet can draw attention to a missing person case. For example, they can publish the missing person’s photos, give all the details of the disappearance that are known, and interview the police to see what progress has been made. Stick to the facts. With any luck, such a report might trigger a memory in the mind of a witness in the reading audience and lead to a break in the case. A responsible news organization does not throw the track off the missing person’s disappearance by tripping the light fantastic through the Twilight Zone, repeating what a bloodsucking predator of the grieving parents says occurred, which in all likelihood contradicts what events actually transpired, thereby discouraging witnesses from coming forward. Not when a tragedy of such terrible proportions is at stake. Such gross irresponsibility is beyond the pale. But that is precisely what you chose to do. You are giving this psychic predator credibility with the BBC name, and diminishing your credibility with her name. You are a part of the problem. You are greasing the skids for these creeps to help push people into deeper despair. Shame, shame, shame on you.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,716

14th March 2006, 07:08 PM	#420
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933	Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website. Sorry! *mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work...
Ducky Guest Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 11,933

14th March 2006, 08:17 PM	#421
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by fowlsound Sorry about the domain name. I got a call in a while back and was sidetracked. I will call again, and hope they let me change it. If not, I will register the second one and point them both at the website. Sorry! *mumbles something about needing a clone to help with all the bloody work... That's ok. If there is one lesson I've learned in all of this, it is patience. Good thing come to those who wait, as they say. I'm not done with my part either, so no guilt. I am entirely grateful to have all the help! Kelly

15th March 2006, 06:41 AM	#422
Mr. Stick Thinker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 231	Originally Posted by chillzero .... it is probably pretty obvious that a person leaving a bar on New Year's Day located next to the docks is likely to have fallen into the water and perished ...... There was a quite similar case in the danish town Odense, where a young man went missing and was later found in the water, although the initial search failed to find him. In this case, however, the psychic that came forward didn't state the obvious, but instead claimed that the man had been abducted, and was held captive in a basement somewhere in town! This resulted in his friends starting their own search, even waking up a caretaker in the middle of the night to search a building. All this commotion scared the town, of course, but when it was all over, the psychic didn't think she had done anything wrong! It's at least a year ago I heard the story in a radio broadcast, and it was also available as a streamed broadcast. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it anymore. The program was about the use of psychics by the police, and whether they should put manpower into investigating psychic claims. I've contemplated writing a post about this case, so if anybody has a link to the broadcast, it'll be most appreciated. (It was from DR, most likely P1)
Mr. Stick Thinker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 231	__________________ John Edward: But, I'm a psychic. Stan Marsh: No, dude. You're a douche. John Edward: I'm not a douche. What if I really believed dead people talk to me? Stan Marsh: Then, you're a stupid douche!

15th March 2006, 08:59 PM	#423
Gr8wight red-shirted crewman Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,661	Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item.
	__________________ Aurora Walking Vacation "A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."--Marshall McLuhan

15th March 2006, 09:22 PM	#424
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Gr8wight Paige's Page: 30th Skeptics' Circle This is the Skeptics' Circle I mentioned earlier, a regular 'blog carnival' on skeptical topics. This week's host led off with Kelly's item. Thank you! An another round of good exposure. I sent them an email to thank them.

15th March 2006, 11:55 PM	#425
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,371	KellyJ, Check your PM.

16th March 2006, 07:25 AM	#426
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Our very own chillzero is featured on the blog series today. She tells the story of how she came to rational thinking, and she also does a very good job of addressing the families of the missing in relationship to using psychics. Thank you, chillzero! Kelly http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

16th March 2006, 12:16 PM	#427
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Poetic justice alert! I just received a call from the Fxxxxxxxx Scholarship folks in Washington, DC. They read yesterday's blog entry about "The Guarantee?" and they are very upset. They are not upset with me, but with Diego and what he did. At the time, University Police only gave him a slap on the hands, but the Fxxxxxx folks are ticked off and want to take it further. They said his priveliges/Visa could be revoked, depending upon what the university decides to do. I xxx'd out part of the scholarship name, since they do searches on it daily, and I don't want them poking around. I offered to delete their name from the blog, but they were ok with it staying. I think they were pretty shocked to have uncovered this. I told them frankly that I thought the U should confiscate his PC and make sure he did not attempt it again or actually scam someone. I hope they do that. I did ask them to let me know what happens. So, after all this time, perhaps justice will be served. Thanks for listening.

17th March 2006, 01:47 PM	#428
Spidey13 Pastor of Muppets Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,457	Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him.
	__________________ "I love you like a fat kid love cake." - 50 Cent

17th March 2006, 02:06 PM	#429
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you'll find me eventually Posts: 2,848	Quote: Q:How many psychic detectives does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: 1000. 989 to grope around in the dark looking for the darn thing, 1 to be lead by a police officer to the bulb and watch her screw it in, and 10 to crow in the media about how they helped solve the Case of the Unscrewed-In Light Bulb. Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic. Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do. (especially loved the Diego entry)
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

17th March 2006, 03:04 PM	#430
chillzero Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,540	Originally Posted by chillzero Inspired by Luke T I decided to write to the BBC about the article: In your report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4803686.stm You state "Diane Lazarus has helped the police in the Republic and in Britain find other missing people.". .... I'll let you know if they respond. John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads: "Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. "

17th March 2006, 03:10 PM	#431
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Spidey13 Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him. That is hilarious! I thought I cleaned that out so there was no clear reference to the actual location. The Fxxxxxx Scholarship people were able to figure it out because apparently he was the only Diego in KY with that privelege. The woman from Fxxxx promised to let me know what happens to the scumbag. The reason that I did not make it 100% clear who he is, is because of a bit of nervousness when dealing with people from foreign countries. YOu never know what is their take on respect for life. Note to self: Get more sleep. Either that, or don't post when half alseep.

17th March 2006, 03:11 PM	#432
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by chillzero John Jackson alerted me to the fact that the wording of this article has now been altered. It now reads: "Diane Lazarus has previously been involved in attempts to find missing people. " Aw...backing down, I see.

17th March 2006, 03:14 PM	#433
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Ryan O'Dine Okay, so maybe light bulb jokes aren’t the most appropriate vehicle for your series, but sometimes a single light bulb joke can do more than 20 pages of irrefutable logic. Or maybe I’m just looking for a belated excuse to say how I, like everyone else, am gladdened by your participation in this forum and by all the good work you do. (especially loved the Diego entry) HI Ryan, and thank you. I'm glad you liked the Diego entry. I never dreamed something would come of that one, and so quickly! Good joke, and so true. It may bear repeating.

17th March 2006, 03:15 PM	#434
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 15,468	Originally Posted by Spidey13 Kelly, be sure to update us on what, if anything, happens to this guy. I read the blog and noticed that, even though you wrote "University of XXXXXX in XXXXX, KY, you provided a link to the actual university. Anyway, since XXXXX, KY is where I live, I'd like to know if anything happens to him. Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering. His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard.

17th March 2006, 03:29 PM	#435
Kelly Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 6,277	Originally Posted by Roadtoad Something damned well ought to. Enough is enough. This creep, while on a scholarship, is trying to bilk money from innocent people who are suffering. His scholarship ought to be revoked, he ought to be sent home, and he ought to be barred from returning to this country. Bastard. I don't know anything about the Fxxxxx Scholarship, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the money does come from taxes. He already has his PHD, the woman told me. RT: Why don't you just head on down there and make some carefully placed treadmarks? If you hear on the news that I was shot and killed, you'll know why. (dramatic music plays)