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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 8th January 2021, 02:27 PM   #441
Azrael 5
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I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:29 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are arguing that she was summarily executed as an example!.

Bravo!
Could you explain how you got MM using her as an example from his post? Please show your work with reference to specifics of what MM posted, because I've read MM's post several times and can't find it. Please educate me.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:29 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That is a complete misreading of SGM's statement.

Her statement:

The key word in the sentence is not "lawbreaker". The key word is "threatening". Ashli Babbit was not killed because she broke the law. She was killed because she, and the mob behind her, presented a real threat to the Congressmen inside the House chamber.

Using the "reasonable person" standard of self defense and justification of the use of deadly force, a reasonable person would conclude that the Congressmen were in danger of death or great bodily harm. Under those circumstances, lethal force is justified in self defense or the defense of others.

I'm not happy that she's dead, but, based on the evidence available to us, killing her was justified.
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:29 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I know that shooting some one does not necessarily kill them. I do accept that if you open fire on someone, you should shoot to kill. That shooting to wound is a Hollywood fantasy. i had wondered whether someone climbing through a window could have been shot in the arm, but I think that if you shoot you shoot to kill.

Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters? The only shots fired I can find by limited googling (Thanks Darat for the advice, ever helpful), were by the police. Of course this officer might not know that other shots were fired by police, and that would be a reason for believing violence was occurring.
That can not be the only standard by which lethal force is justifiable in a rational world.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:30 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters?
No, and that wasn't necessary. A person breaks into my house, and I feel that my life is threatened, I can use deadly force. Multiply that by hundreds in an angry mob. Did you watch those spittle-flecked morons trying smash their way into the chamber? Did you listen to their words? Sorry, your attempt to paint this as a rambunctious lark is a fail.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:31 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
While the rest of the mob rushes right past you, or, worse, tries to prevent you from doing what you suggest?
Again in gun-shy UK all our buildings that house the legislative branches of our governments have armed police. It would be very strange to have your police armed if there weren’t circumstances in which they are meant to use those firearms.

Here is a recentish example in the UK:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...f%20Parliament.

“.... The knifeman then stabbed a policeman before being shot dead by armed officers near the Houses of Parliament....”
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:31 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yes, they were protecting all such people behind them against a violent mob. Would you suggest they just stand aside, maybe hand out visitor badges to the mob trying to reach the legislators and their staffs?

"Come on through, ma'am. You'll find most of Congress down the hall on the right. If you turn left, Vice President Pence will be behind the third door on the right. Be careful of the Secret Service agents! Have a nice day!"
Have fun storming the castle!
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:31 PM   #448
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calling it an execution is comically dishonest
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:32 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
I've heard vague sources (still waiting on a major news source to run it) that the WV State Congressman who was part of the mob has also been arrested.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:32 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are arguing that she was summarily executed as an example!.

Bravo!
Another lie.

Do you not realise how obvious your lies are?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:32 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think the window was only big enough for one person, (with a large back pack), pepper spraying her or tasering her halfway through effectively blocks the hole?
Are you kidding?!

That police officer was going to risk everything on some estimating of the size of the hole? What guaranteed that the hole would remain the same size? Or that pepper spray and tasering would be *so* likely to wedge her into the hole?

What color is the sky on your planet?

I am happy to stand corrected on this, but I can not imagine how. Please educate me.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:33 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
Because nobody in the mob wanted to be the next one to go through the window and get shot.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:34 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
Seditious conspiracy

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

18 US code 2384
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:34 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
No, and that wasn't necessary. A person breaks into my house, and I feel that my life is threatened, I can use deadly force. Multiply that by hundreds in an angry mob. Did you watch those spittle-flecked morons trying smash their way into the chamber? Did you listen to their words? Sorry, your attempt to paint this as a rambunctious lark is a fail.
A heavily armed mob. Who killed a police officer.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:34 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
By empirical evidence. Reports indicate that the mob behind her had a change of heart and stopped their efforts, at least long enough for the folk inside to retreat safely.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:35 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Are you kidding?!
No, he's trolling.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:35 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Cool story. And what do you propose they do with the dozens coming in after she gets treated so sweetly?

I'm more against law enforcement overreactions than most people, but this was a mob that was already inside a building illegally, directly attacking our elected government. Deadly force was more than appropriate under the circumstances.
Well first of all the officer should have asked them all to wear face masks and maintain social distancing, then the police officer could have asked her what was the reason for her being in the building, once sheíd established it was to prevent the election of a new president they could have directed her to the correct chamber.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:35 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters?
Why is that relevant? Do you honestly think that the only risk to the congress-critters, policemen or staff was from gunfire?

The policeman that was killed was supposedly hit by a fire extinguisher. He was bludgeoned to death. The fact that he wasn't shot instead does not make him any less dead. (Not to mention the individual pictured carrying the type of zip-ties useful in handcuffing people. And the fact that just a day or 2 earlier, authorities had arrested at least one person who was planning on bringing weapons to the riot.)
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:36 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
Heís a straightforward one - theft. He stole mail.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:37 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Because nobody in the mob wanted to be the next one to go through the window and get shot.
See post #430 and the replies to it.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:37 PM   #461
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I'm wondering what the difference between this group of "Patriots" storming the Capitol, and the Libyan group of terrorists who stormed our embassy in Benghazi?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:37 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
Another lie.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:38 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Why is that relevant? Do you honestly think that the only risk to the congress-critters, policemen or staff was from gunfire?

The policeman that was killed was supposedly hit by a fire extinguisher. He was bludgeoned to death. The fact that he wasn't shot instead does not make him any less dead. (Not to mention the individual pictured carrying the type of zip-ties useful in handcuffing people. And the fact that just a day or 2 earlier, authorities had arrested at least one person who was planning on bringing weapons to the riot.)
He returned to the police station after the altercation during which he was hit in the head.

He was not "bludgeoned to death"
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:38 PM   #464
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As noted in another thread in order to protect the statues or racist traitors Trump signed an Executive Order mandating a 10 year sentence for anyone who, I'm quoting Trump's actual Executive Order here: "It is the policy of the United States to prosecute to the fullest extent permitted under Federal law, and as appropriate, any person or any entity that destroys, damages, vandalizes, or desecrates a monument, memorial, or statue within the United States or otherwise vandalizes government property."

Seems straight forward to me.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:38 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
calling it an execution is comically dishonest
Since we know the facts it is simply lying.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:40 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I'm wondering what the difference between this group of "Patriots" storming the Capitol, and the Libyan group of terrorists who stormed our embassy in Benghazi?
Or, to use an example much heralded over the Summer, the group of patriots who stormed the ships in Boston Harbor and dumped out all that tea so long ago.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:41 PM   #467
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tasing her and using her limp body to plug up the hole in the window is up there with trump brainstorming on how to inject bleach to cure covid
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:41 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
See post #430 and the replies to it.
Executions are controlled killings. To execute, you have to have physical control of your target and surroundings. Someone bashing their way into a window? What kind of mental gyrations do you have to go through, to decide someone forcing their way into a space is under the control of someone inside that space with charges to protect?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:42 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Or, to use an example much heralded over the Summer, the group of patriots who stormed the ships in Boston Harbor and dumped out all that tea so long ago.
Since you can apparently come up with another example illustrating the same point can you answer the question?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:43 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
He returned to the police station after the altercation during which he was hit in the head.

He was not "bludgeoned to death"
The skull damage from the bludgeoning killed him. By your logic, Babbitt wasn't killed by police, she died in the hospital.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:43 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
Much more than him. I'm waiting to read when the guy walking off with the Speaker's podium is arrested.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:43 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No, he's trolling.
that would explain it
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:44 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
The policeman who fired the shot did not know if it would. As it turns out, it did, but that was a side effect.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:44 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
By empirical evidence. Reports indicate that the mob behind her had a change of heart and stopped their efforts, at least long enough for the folk inside to retreat safely.
Post #430
See responses, if you care to.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:45 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
See post #430 and the replies to it.
Lost 430 doesn't answer that at all

Here is a long video that includes the incident.

Not easy viewing.


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I AGREE


But look at them trying to smash their way into a barricade

It was self defense.

There were lots of them

They had warning

The gunshot stopped them. They suddenly sobered up.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:45 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Or, to use an example much heralded over the Summer, the group of patriots who stormed the ships in Boston Harbor and dumped out all that tea so long ago.
Those patriots actually had truth and reality on their side, though.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:46 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Or, to use an example much heralded over the Summer, the group of patriots who stormed the ships in Boston Harbor and dumped out all that tea so long ago.
Not sure how that relates, were the tea ships considered govenment soil?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:47 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To be fair, I think Planigale is seriously wrong on this point, but I'm not sure she's part of a "lot".
I kind of just meant this whole part of the forum. Even I get more pedantic in here.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:48 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Not sure how that relates, were the tea ships considered govenment soil?
Perhaps the British legislature was meeting aboard?
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:49 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What's an unassembled Molotov cocktail? A bottle of gasoline that has a cap instead of a wick?
That was my reading. Of course, you would have the wicks available and the zippo, because you can't count on the government to supply decent wicking material and that electric lighter you got in your stocking is convenient and all with the usb charging, but if there is a photo of the revolution you want to be seen with a zippo. That's just much cooler.
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