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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 8th January 2021, 02:50 PM   #481
dudalb
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Depends on the law. Attacking our democratic institutions?

It is sufficient.
Commit a act of insurrection,you are de facto waging war against the United States, and the use of deadly force is justified.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:50 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
See post #430 and the replies to it.
checks post #430

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are arguing that she was summarily executed as an example!.

Bravo!
No Meadmaker wasn't. No more than anyone defending a pinch point kills anyone trying to storm it as "an example"
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:51 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Not sure how that relates, were the tea ships considered govenment soil?
Was a Monarchy at the time, would not have mattered.
Similar to how Libyans have no place protesting on American soil without invite.
the Capitol is "the people's house", the (mostly peaceful) protestors there could have un-ironically chanted "who's house!?!?-----OUR house!?!?"
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:53 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Was a Monarchy at the time, would not have mattered.
Similar to how Libyans have no place protesting on American soil without invite.
the Capitol is "the people's house", the (mostly peaceful) protestors there could have un-ironically chanted "who's house!?!?-----OUR house!?!?"
So you're saying that they were providing cover for the terrorists amongst them?

Thr difference being that my stupid misreading of your post actually is the most charitable interpretation possible
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:54 PM   #485
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
I'm wondering what the difference between this group of "Patriots" storming the Capitol, and the Libyan group of terrorists who stormed our embassy in Benghazi?
More Americans died at the capitol.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:54 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Was a Monarchy at the time, would not have mattered.
Similar to how Libyans have no place protesting on American soil without invite.
the Capitol is "the people's house", the (mostly peaceful) protestors there could have un-ironically chanted "who's house!?!?-----OUR house!?!?"
Yes, and the customer is always right. There's nothing quite like an aphorism that's sort of true but isn't really once facts are brought to bear.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:54 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Lost 430 doesn't answer that at all

Here is a long video that includes the incident.

Not easy viewing.


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I AGREE


But look at them trying to smash their way into a barricade

It was self defense.

There were lots of them

They had warning

The gunshot stopped them. They suddenly sobered up.
Watching that video pisses me off all over again. A Capitol building full of deplorables.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:54 PM   #488
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
calling it an execution is comically dishonest
The real dishonesty comes if you ask one of the Trumpers shedding tears over this if they felt that way about any of the unarmed blacks killed by police recently. I have asked that question on other websites, and have never gotten a direct response.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:55 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Was a Monarchy at the time, would not have mattered.
Similar to how Libyans have no place protesting on American soil without invite.
the Capitol is "the people's house", the (mostly peaceful) protestors there could have un-ironically chanted "who's house!?!?-----OUR house!?!?"
Huh?





No, but seriously, what? YOU brought up the Tea Party, but turns out it was a non-sequitur. I was trying to compare apples to apples, (American Embassy > US Government property. Capitol > US Government Property. Tea ships > not US property).

But you did show a similarity between the Benghazi attack (uninvited mob) and the Capitol attack (again, uninvited mob), so, thanks? I guess?

Last edited by gregthehammer; 8th January 2021 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:56 PM   #490
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Here is the draft impeachment document:

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1...764557826?s=20

Quote:
NBC News
@NBCNews
·
54m
JUST IN: 4-page draft article of impeachment against President Trump that Reps. Raskin, Lieu, Cicilline are planning to introduce Monday: "Incitement of insurrection"
Sorry, if ninja-ed.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:56 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Lost 430 doesn't answer that at all

Here is a long video that includes the incident.

Not easy viewing.


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I AGREE


But look at them trying to smash their way into a barricade

It was self defense.

There were lots of them

They had warning

The gunshot stopped them. They suddenly sobered up.
Yep.
The shooting of the first person trying to get through the window and posing no immediate threat to anyone served as an example to the rest of the (mostly peaceful) protestors.
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Old 8th January 2021, 02:59 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Huh?
Were you asking an actual question?
What is the difference between Libyans invading American soil, and Americans invading American soil? That was a legit question?
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:01 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He’s a straightforward one - theft. He stole mail.
That is just for starters.Whole slew of charges facing this guy.Breaking and entering..Pelosi's office as are most of the congressional offices..are not open to the public the way that most of the capitol is.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:01 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Those patriots actually had truth and reality on their side, though.
Not according to the legitimate Government of the time.
Which is why, I believe, that it was trotted out over the Summer as evidence of how "rioting is good".
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:03 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Were you asking an actual question?
What is the difference between Libyans invading American soil, and Americans invading American soil? That was a legit question?
So you approve of the storming of the Capitol by an armed mob?

I am beggining to smell Troll in this thread.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:03 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
How many people actually roamed the corridors of the capitol? My take was it was a few dozen, but I have seen no count so I may be completely misinterpreting what happened.

Here is an example of people occupying a federal building as part of a demonstration and seeking a change in the constitution of the US, sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-54794408
The plain clothes secret services police are there to to do one job only. They are trained to shoot first. They don't wait to discover your motive for bursting into a highly secure area of central government.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:04 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Were you asking an actual question?
What is the difference between Libyans invading American soil, and Americans invading American soil? That was a legit question?
I edited my reply above to further expand on my confusion.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:04 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The real dishonesty comes if you ask one of the Trumpers shedding tears over this if they felt that way about any of the unarmed blacks killed by police recently. I have asked that question on other websites, and have never gotten a direct response.
Exactly!!!
It is the essence of hypocrisy to shed tears over unarmed people being shot while in the act of breaking the Law, then celebrate the death of this poor woman who was summarily executed for trespassing.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:04 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Yep.
The shooting of the first person trying to get through the window and posing no immediate threat to anyone served as an example to the rest of the (mostly peaceful) protestors.
The peaceful protestors who beat a Capitol Poiceman to Death?
Sorry, but if you were in the mob who did that you are not a peaceful protestor.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:05 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Yep.
The shooting of the first person trying to get through the window and posing no immediate threat to anyone served as an example to the rest of the (mostly peaceful) protestors.
I'm going to wait until a legal expert on use of force provides an argument and evidence.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:06 PM   #501
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https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2021...ashli-babbitt/
Quote:
Babbitt’s shooting was captured on several videos that were recorded and shared by people in the crowd. Her own social media history also reveals her movements on the morning and afternoon of January 6. But looking back further shows an ideological journey that saw her travel from stating she had backed President Barack Obama to engaging in damaging right-wing conspiracy theories.

We have looked at Babbitt’s social media footprint, as well as other open source information, to trace both journeys.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:07 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Yep.
The shooting of the first person trying to get through the window and posing no immediate threat to anyone served as an example to the rest of the (mostly peaceful) protestors.
Please. Someone breaking a window and climbing into your bedroom while you’re asleep in the middle of the night would neither pose no immediate threat to you either, on your logic.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:07 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Exactly!!!
It is the essence of hypocrisy to shed tears over unarmed people being shot while in the act of breaking the Law, then celebrate the death of this poor woman who was summarily executed for trespassing.
BS. She was part of a viiolent mob trying to break into the House Chamber.
I think we came very close to having a good many congresspeople taking hostage by an armed mob? You support that?
Dammir, I think is just broke my own rule about not feeding the trolls.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:07 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Not according to the legitimate Government of the time.
Which is why, I believe, that it was trotted out over the Summer as evidence of how "rioting is good".
Truth and reality is not according to one group or another.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:08 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Please. Someone breaking a window and climbing into your bedroom while you’re asleep in the middle of the night would neither pose no immediate threat to you either, on your logic.
And that is not even mentioning the "SHe was part of a vioilent mob trying to break into the House Chamber" angle.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:08 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Oh My, here comes the victim blaming.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:09 PM   #507
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Frankly, I think that this was a situation where, in the words of Napoleon, "a whiff of grapeshot" would have been justified.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:10 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Commit a act of insurrection,you are de facto waging war against the United States, and the use of deadly force is justified.
Absolutely. I'm very much a non-violent person. But sometimes one does not choose to fight, but still must. I love this country. But it isn't a flag waving, rah rah love. It is not unconditional. I love the principles that it stands for.

My father was aboard an LST that landed on Omaha Beach. I know that what our soldiers were doing it was not murdering and executing the enemy but righting a great wrong. Democracy is worth fighting for. And killing for. I hate to see it when it happens. But in my book, this police officer was a hero fighting a wrong. Just like my Dad.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:13 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Was a Monarchy at the time, would not have mattered. ...snip...
At the time Britain was a constitutional monarchy, one of the major beefs the Brits in the colonies had is pithily summed up in the political slogan “No taxation without representation”. The Boston Tea party episode was a protest about taxation.

The “Boston Tea Party” was a protest against a private company over what was considered unfair taxation.

How can that be linked to the events on 6th January?
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:14 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
How many people actually roamed the corridors of the capitol? My take was it was a few dozen, but I have seen no count so I may be completely misinterpreting what happened.

Here is an example of people occupying a federal building as part of a demonstration and seeking a change in the constitution of the US, sounds pretty revolutionary to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-54794408

Let's get this into perspective:

Quote:
The fact that Republicans are suddenly being vocal about Trump needing to go tells me that there is stuff coming out behind the scenes that is really really bad and worse than we think.
Quote:
We know:
-Trump replaced all DoD heads.

-Trump called for the “Rally” in mob talk, and said it “would be wild.”

-DoD refused prep equipment to Capital Police and support

-Refused backup for hours

-Insurgents had the date of the Revolution printed on t-shirts

It was planned.
Quote:
Reporters embedded w/rioters emerging para military embedded within the rioters, photos w/zip ties, they were looking for VP, Pelosi, Schmuer, McConnell. A gallows set up on the mall. Capital police aided them. I’m just gobsmacked

This was not a benign protest march. This was a failed coup.

The emergency evacuation to another chamber was the risk strategy put into place. The secret services guys had to guard the front doors of the inner chamber - where the congress men and women had to put on gas masks - and the back door. These people had a strategy of getting into that chamber and they knew exactly how. There were quasi-military types abseiling down from the upper balconies. There were sinister guys with their faces very well covered brandishing military style weapons and binding tapes.

That guy who stopped the surge in through the window next to the room where the likes of Shumer, Pence and Pelosi et al were hiding, may well have saved a lot of people's lives that moment he shot the demonstrator bursting in through that window.

https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/st...708781568?s=20
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:15 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is just for starters.Whole slew of charges facing this guy.Breaking and entering..Pelosi's office as are most of the congressional offices..are not open to the public the way that most of the capitol is.

I know there are special categories of charges for theft of mail. But doesn't that have to be mail in transit? If someone breaks into my house and makes off with my Bed Bath & Beyond coupon, is that a Federal mail theft charge because it was once in the mail? I don't think so.

On the other hand, a piece of delivered mail is a document, and stealing documents from a congressperson's office might invite other applicable charges, such as espionage.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:15 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Truth and reality is not according to one group or another.
Yet so many groups believe they have the absolute, inside scoop on it.

To have certainty would require omniscience- which a Forum like this exists (at least originally) in denial of.
The hypocrisy on display here since the incidents of Tuesday is so over-the-top extreme that is is downright disheartening.

Critical thought truly has been abandoned in favor of knee-jerk tribalism, here as well. Examination of what reality and truth might actually be has been traded in for the pleasure of taking a side. Few posters are displaying a single consistent principle.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:17 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
At the time Britain was a constitutional monarchy, one of the major beefs the Brits in the colonies had is pithily summed up in the political slogan “No taxation without representation”. The Boston Tea party episode was a protest about taxation.

The “Boston Tea Party” was a protest against a private company over what was considered unfair taxation.

How can that be linked to the events on 6th January?
The private company was levying taxes?
I should educate myself more about the incident.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:17 PM   #514
dudalb
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Absolutely. I'm very much a non-violent person. But sometimes one does not choose to fight, but still must. I love this country. But it isn't a flag waving, rah rah love. It is not unconditional. I love the principles that it stands for.

My father was aboard an LST that landed on Omaha Beach. I know that what our soldiers were doing it was not murdering and executing the enemy but righting a great wrong. Democracy is worth fighting for. And killing for. I hate to see it when it happens. But in my book, this police officer was a hero fighting a wrong. Just like my Dad.
The Civil War was legally an insurrection...same as the Storming of the Capitol Building.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:18 PM   #515
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The private company was levying taxes?
I should educate myself more about the incident.
There is a lot you need to educate yourself about.
Sort of amazed someone from Philidephia doe snot know the basic facts of the Amereican Revolution.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:19 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
What a clear example of how someone can become a radicalised extremist and a threat, it’s rare that we get to see how it happens.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:19 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Yet so many groups believe they have the absolute, inside scoop on it.

To have certainty would require omniscience- which a Forum like this exists (at least originally) in denial of.
The hypocrisy on display here since the incidents of Tuesday is so over-the-top extreme that is is downright disheartening.

Critical thought truly has been abandoned in favor of knee-jerk tribalism, here as well. Examination of what reality and truth might actually be has been traded in for the pleasure of taking a side. Few posters are displaying a single consistent principle.
Ironic statement is ironic ?
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:20 PM   #518
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I know there are special categories of charges for theft of mail. But doesn't that have to be mail in transit? If someone breaks into my house and makes off with my Bed Bath & Beyond coupon, is that a Federal mail theft charge because it was once in the mail? I don't think so.

On the other hand, a piece of delivered mail is a document, and stealing documents from a congressperson's office might invite other applicable charges, such as espionage.
And there are reports that Laptops are missing form Pelosi's officed.
This might indeed be espionage. Putin would be happy to pay money to get his hands on those.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 8th January 2021, 03:22 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Exactly!!!
It is the essence of hypocrisy to shed tears over unarmed people being shot while in the act of breaking the Law, then celebrate the death of this poor woman who was summarily executed for trespassing.
whatever point you're trying to make is pretty easily dismissed by calling this a summary execution.
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Old 8th January 2021, 03:22 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Thank you. I am unable to access that link as it seems to be behind a paywall. I take your point, that she was shot because others might come through. Did any others? Was there no alternative? Maybe the officer did not have a taser or pepper spray or a baton or handcuffs.

I'll stick with the killing people is wrong view. Even if there was no alternative, it is not something to celebrate. She did not deserve to be shot in the face. This was a sad event, to be regretted, even if there was no other option.
Taser? This is an SAS Seal commando licensed to kill. This isn't PC plod with a taser, baton and a body cam.
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