IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Florida politics , Ron DeSantis

Reply
Old 13th August 2021, 09:14 AM   #401
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,416
So you want to do the "winning by last word thing." Go ahead...I am done here anyways.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:15 AM   #402
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 23,635
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Also, to add, I don't have a problem if employers or institutions require a vaccine standard. That falls under "choice". I can choose not to get vaccinated, but I can't work or go to school at certain places.
Right - today, you can't go to public school without a measles vaccine. So it's effectively mandatory. Enough people go to public school that we essentially get to herd immunity this way.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:16 AM   #403
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Also, to add, I don't have a problem if employers or institutions require a vaccine standard. That falls under "choice". I can choose not to get vaccinated, but I can't work or go to school at certain places.
So then we have finally gotten to the point where you would disagree with De Santis' banning the choice of requiring vaccine passports in workplaces and for cruise ships?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:17 AM   #404
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,348
Sigh.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Argument
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia
Resume is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:21 AM   #405
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So then we have finally gotten to the point where you would disagree with De Santis' banning the choice of requiring vaccine passports in workplaces and for cruise ships?
"Finally"? My position on these matters has not changed, although it was not polled.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:23 AM   #406
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Right - today, you can't go to public school without a measles vaccine. So it's effectively mandatory. Enough people go to public school that we essentially get to herd immunity this way.
I see "mandatory" as something that government says you must do, or else be in non-compliance of the law. If people don't want to vaccinate their children, and instead, home school them, I am ok with that. Although, I think it is stupid to not get the vaccinations.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:26 AM   #407
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
"Finally"? My position on these matters has not changed, although it was not polled.
I guess then by the same logic as vaccinations, that you didn't oppose local authorities defying De Santis and implimenting mask mandates then? And you since you don't agree on vaccination and mask mandates that you then don't support him in how he is handling the Covid outbreak in Florida?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:28 AM   #408
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 23,635
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I see "mandatory" as something that government says you must do, or else be in non-compliance of the law. If people don't want to vaccinate their children, and instead, home school them, I am ok with that. Although, I think it is stupid to not get the vaccinations.
Fair enough. Given how contagious and deadly measles is, we could see a couple of hundred deaths from home-schoolers in 10-20 years.

Is there a preventable death number threshold that would make you change your mind, for instance with this Covid outbreak?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:29 AM   #409
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I guess then by the same logic as vaccinations, that you didn't oppose local authorities defying De Santis and implimenting mask mandates then? And you since you don't agree on vaccination and mask mandates that you then don't support him in how he is handling the Covid outbreak in Florida?
I think the law needs to be followed. And there is a hierarchy of law, so to speak. I may not agree with laws enacted, but the system is to be adhered to. If local authorities are within their right to enact law, I support them doing so.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:31 AM   #410
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 5,433
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Also, to add, I don't have a problem if employers or institutions require a vaccine standard. That falls under "choice". I can choose not to get vaccinated, but I can't work or go to school at certain places.
A 'choice' That DeSantis seems to have taken away. 'bro'.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:32 AM   #411
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
Should laws be followed even when doing so could cost people their lives?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:32 AM   #412
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Fair enough. Given how contagious and deadly measles is, we could see a couple of hundred deaths from home-schoolers in 10-20 years.

Is there a preventable death number threshold that would make you change your mind, for instance with this Covid outbreak?
With Covid, in it's current forms, I don't think that number is approachable.

It is hard to assign an arbitrary "number" to such a thing. There is probably a case where I could see my ideology being faulty. But I don't know how that situation would play out. Like any reasonable person, I am open to changing my opinion on such a dynamic matter.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:34 AM   #413
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Should laws be followed even when doing so could cost people their lives?
Who is the arbitrator of such matters? The individual?
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:38 AM   #414
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
LOL. I guess you read that in the paper.
I notice you didn't answer my question or address my point. Yet another dodge and a personal comment.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:38 AM   #415
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,953
A fantasy: Covid vaccination is mandatory. Tents and trucks appear at malls and parks and stadiums. Unsmiling MPs sweep neighborhoods and march the reluctant off to get jabbed.

And they are jabbed, silently and unresistingly, but teams of large male nurses with plastic cuffs ready in their belts. Then the vaccinated are released.

At once, fat, throat-bearded guys dash crazily around, begging each other to suck the poison out. "C'mon, white bro, it burns! It's like a raddlesnake bite! Hep me! Hep MEEEE!"






A somewhat warped comedy, I admit, but heck, I too am a product of my time.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:39 AM   #416
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
My thought is, that if something is effectively eradicated, we might not need to vaccinate. If it isn't, then of course, vaccination should continue.
It isn't.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:40 AM   #417
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
A fantasy: Covid vaccination is mandatory. Tents and trucks appear at malls and parks and stadiums. Unsmiling MPs sweep neighborhoods and march the reluctant off to get jabbed.

And they are jabbed, silently and unresistingly, but teams of large male nurses with plastic cuffs ready in their belts. Then the vaccinated are released.

At once, fat, throat-bearded guys dash crazily around, begging each other to suck the poison out. "C'mon, white bro, it burns! It's like a raddlesnake bite! Hep me! Hep MEEEE!"
Ok, this is my kind of comedy.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:40 AM   #418
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I'm certainly not an anti-vaxxer. But I think we should also be aware of why and in some cases, if, vaccines are required.
You're not an anti-vaxxer but you use their arguments. Vaccines are required because they reduce the risks of infection and of epidemics, and of variants. They protect us far more than they hurt anyone, and they cost almost nothing. There is no downside.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:42 AM   #419
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I see "mandatory" as something that government says you must do, or else be in non-compliance of the law. If people don't want to vaccinate their children, and instead, home school them, I am ok with that. Although, I think it is stupid to not get the vaccinations.
How do you feel about seatbelts?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:43 AM   #420
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're not an anti-vaxxer but you use their arguments. Vaccines are required because they reduce the risks of infection and of epidemics, and of variants. They protect us far more than they hurt anyone, and they cost almost nothing. There is no downside.
Just inject everything straight into my ****, then. I don't care what it is.

Don't you get it? I'm not an anti-vaxxer, already!
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:44 AM   #421
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
How do you feel about seatbelts?
Should not be mandatory.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:44 AM   #422
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Just inject everything straight into my ****, then. I don't care what it is.

Don't you get it? I'm not an anti-vaxxer, already!
So why are you helping them?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:49 AM   #423
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
So why are you helping them?
Huh? I encourage people to get vaccinated. I also encourage people to question why a vaccine is required. I think that is reasonable.

When it becomes unreasonable is when people reject facts. That doesn't rest upon my shoulders, but theirs.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:53 AM   #424
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? I encourage people to get vaccinated. I also encourage people to question why a vaccine is required. I think that is reasonable.
Yes, but it doesn't answer my question. Why are you helping anti-vaxxers with this "yeah, but I'm not _totally_ sure" faux-centrist stuff?

Quote:
When it becomes unreasonable is when people reject facts.
I'll never disagree with such a statement.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 09:58 AM   #425
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yes, but it doesn't answer my question. Why are you helping anti-vaxxers with this "yeah, but I'm not _totally_ sure" faux-centrist stuff?
If I have presented it in such a way, I did not mean to.

But, I don't support mandatory vaccination, at all. On the measles, and such "old" vaccines, I really don't know all of the answers as to where we stand today....although I know that vaccines did their wonders, mostly, some time ago. But, rest assured, if I were expecting to welcome a newborn, I would research it extensively.

And, again, I always *urge* people to get a covid vaccination, if they haven't already. I have mentioned this in other threads.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius

Last edited by Warp12; 13th August 2021 at 10:00 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:00 AM   #426
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If I have presented it in such a way, I did not mean to.
Fair enough.

Quote:
But, I don't support mandatory vaccination, at all.
I'd really like you to tell me what you think about mandatory seatbelts, though.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:02 AM   #427
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'd really like you to tell me what you think about mandatory seatbelts, though.
I already stated, I am against them being mandatory. What are you asking?
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius

Last edited by Warp12; 13th August 2021 at 10:04 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:03 AM   #428
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I already stated, I am against them. What are you asking?
Are you against any such government proscription?

I'm trying to ascertain exactly where the boundaries of this principle lie.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:05 AM   #429
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Are you against any such government proscription?

I'm trying to ascertain exactly where the boundaries of this principle lie.
Frankly, you would have to ask on an individual basis. I think I know where you are headed, but I am not certain.

Also, I think we are way, way OT at this point. You could PM me.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:07 AM   #430
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,953
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Ok, this is my kind of comedy.
You left out the part about warped.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:12 AM   #431
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Frankly, you would have to ask on an individual basis. I think I know where you are headed, but I am not certain.

Also, I think we are way, way OT at this point. You could PM me.
Nah, that's ok. My larger point is simply that proscription of behaviour is at the core of every society. If we can prevent people from killing each other with deadly weapons, why not prevent them from killing each other with behaviours that encourage the spread of a disease? What's the actual, essential difference?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:16 AM   #432
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 23,635
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Originally Posted by carlitos
Fair enough. Given how contagious and deadly measles is, we could see a couple of hundred deaths from home-schoolers in 10-20 years.

Is there a preventable death number threshold that would make you change your mind, for instance with this Covid outbreak?
With Covid, in it's current forms, I don't think that number is approachable.

It is hard to assign an arbitrary "number" to such a thing. There is probably a case where I could see my ideology being faulty. But I don't know how that situation would play out. Like any reasonable person, I am open to changing my opinion on such a dynamic matter.
We're over 600,000 deaths in the USA so far, but maybe you mean as it stands currently - around 600 deaths per day, virtually all preventable if people were vaccinated.

If that's the case, then your threshold is higher than mine, for sure. Not to mention that these unvaccinated people can kill people with weakened immune systems and children too young to be vaccinated.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:17 AM   #433
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 35,653
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nah, that's ok. My larger point is simply that proscription of behaviour is at the core of every society. If we can prevent people from killing each other with deadly weapons, why not prevent them from killing each other with behaviours that encourage the spread of a disease? What's the actual, essential difference?
Because that's the game. It's always the game. At this point it's pretty much the only game.

When their house is burning down, they want to talk about how to put the fire out.

When someone else's house is burning down it suddenly becomes a deep philosophical debate about our societal duty to care about each other's houses. And they'll get back to talking about how to put the fire out as soon as we jump through 5,000 hoops, "clarify" all the terms that suddenly are so vague, and so forth.
__________________
"When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers, only better and better lies." - Jon Snow

"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 13th August 2021 at 10:19 AM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:22 AM   #434
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If we can prevent people from killing each other with deadly weapons, why not prevent them from killing each other with behaviours that encourage the spread of a disease? What's the actual, essential difference?
Intent and execution.

If we really cared that much about death, there are a lot of things that could be outlawed or mandated. But, part of our culture is freedom. People have different thresholds of what they figure a fair cost for that is.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:25 AM   #435
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Intent and execution.
Ok great. What differentiates them in terms of intent and execution?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:28 AM   #436
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
We're over 600,000 deaths in the USA so far, but maybe you mean as it stands currently - around 600 deaths per day, virtually all preventable if people were vaccinated.

If that's the case, then your threshold is higher than mine, for sure. Not to mention that these unvaccinated people can kill people with weakened immune systems and children too young to be vaccinated.
Of the 600 deaths per day, how many do you think are unvaccinated?
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:29 AM   #437
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Of the 600 deaths per day, how many do you think are unvaccinated?
Over 95%.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:29 AM   #438
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ok great. What differentiates them in terms of intent and execution?
Basically...intent and execution.

Come on, man.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:31 AM   #439
Warp12
Master Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,548
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Over 95%.
Exactly. So, most of these people made their choice, and took their chances.

That is the price of freedom, for them.

Not all of them, but most.
__________________
“The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat.” - Confucius
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2021, 10:33 AM   #440
heymatto70
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Exactly. So, most of these people made their choice, and took their chances.

That is the price of freedom, for them.

Not all of them, but most.
The more hosts the virus has, the more chances it has to mutate into something that we cannot control with the vaccines.

Public health is something that cannot be boiled down to one person's choice. Either we shrink the virus to something we can deal with (even a seasonal thing like the flu), eliminate it outright, or be overcome by it.
heymatto70 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:04 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.