Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

[JREF2010]

Originally Posted by Samson

There is a reason the blood is there, maybe it is still the vial, but access and testing are problems. Zellner has introduced an idea that can't be disproven, so can be accommodated with the preponderance of evidence.
For example, if Steve bled in the car, it is the only mistake he made.
We can rule out that he planted bones in his own fire pit, that he planted his own dna on the key and hoodlatch. These aspects must have involved police bolstering their case. There is no point in any other party planting evidence as they were logically uninvolved, nothing to hide.
He would need to have burned the body in the quarry and Lenk/Colborn find bones and move them. But of course why would they? They already had his blood in the car, and he was the last to see her alive. There would be other evidence that he had done all this, there would be a complete case for any jury.

No, the blood in the car resolves into planted evidence, nothing else fits, and we have two sources of blood to consider.
Certainly in pulling the trailer to pieces, some dried blood from that thumb bleed could easily be found.

the burning of the body and all that seems to me to be the biggest cover up or just blatant ignorant biased detective work. the States Bone testimony wasnt even interested it seems in doing much about any of it.

thats the key to some of these frame jobs, it seems do several of "plants" and it makes the defense really overwhelmed to disprove all of them, I would think.

but where are the other bones? why didnt they test the bones from the quarry? all in the affidavits...

I dont have a lot of hope though once it becomes a Judge and AG Shitmel covering their eyes, mouth and plugging their ears, right?

[JREF2010]

the Wis AG (the peoples lawyer) isnt interested in finding the truth...

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...ial/383554001/

[McHrozni]

Originally Posted by wasapi

What an interesting question. Hopefully someone will come along and explain the answer. Just off the top of my head I'm going to guess that it is possible to detect the difference in the DNA, at least in terms of stress levels?

It is possible to detect the difference in the quantity of DNA, if the person has sweaty palms as a result of the stress. We don't test for the presence of stress hormones or anything else that would allow us to judge the state of mind of the donor.

McHrozni

[McHrozni]

Originally Posted by Samson

So the obvious source of blood becomes the trailer. Was it dried blood reconstituted with water? Does this work?

Anyone who ever had a scab can answer this. No, it doesn't*.

* barring a few life-threatening conditions that would not go unnoticed

McHrozni

[DragonLady]

Originally Posted by JREF2010

that made me laugh as Ive seen so much "pigville" around my place with the young men and kids and leaving everything everywhere and filth can be very common in a evidence topic. Looking at Steves trailer I might guess the sink was cleaned once every 3 months maybe...but who knows. It just doesnt seem like cleanliness was a priority. It doesnt surprise me if his blood and anything, sat in the sink for months. just adding to the perception of cleaning a sink..lol

The trailer and access to the sink-blood (also the car he bled in) seems insane to think about.

Ive said it before it shocks me how many tromped through Steves Trailer in total? 5, 15, 25 police and search-party folk? How many times? They tore the place apart maybe they all had access to the blood in the sink.

The police are seen on film bumbling around in the trailer, touching stuff, grabbing it, taking it and not logging it...its in the MAM when Jodi comes out and STeves arrested already. It look like a tornado hit it, a common sloppy crime scene in a lot of these cases it seems.

The one piece I read was Steve ran in to get a fast bandaid (made from masking tape) and his brother was waiting on him. Thats how the blood got there, the wound broke open and he went into the trailer slapped some tape on the cut....Ive done that many times too, I'll use scotch tape or anything available. Often a napkin and scotch tape for hand cuts. Thats pretty common as many dont have nice bandaids around. I dont buy sotre bought bandaids often.

Well, my Dad was a lot that way -really messy if left on his own for a while, but I always thought he was the exception. Dad often used tape instead of bandaids, too.

Maybe it's more common than I thought.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by JREF2010

the Wis AG (the peoples lawyer) isnt interested in finding the truth...

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...ial/383554001/

Truth isn't as important as victory.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Anyone who ever had a scab can answer this. No, it doesn't*.

* barring a few life-threatening conditions that would not go unnoticed


McHrozni

Thanks McHronzi:

I always thought Steve bled in the car too and murdered Teresa.

But seriously, what do you believe right now?

[McHrozni]

Originally Posted by Samson

Thanks McHronzi:

I always thought Steve bled in the car too and murdered Teresa.

But seriously, what do you believe right now?

I believe the simplest explanation is that Steven Avery murdered Theresa. It is possible the investigators also added some bits and pieces of evidence to make a stronger case.

Also, it's McHrozni, and not McHronzi.

McHrozni
(and not McHronzi)

[Samson]

Originally Posted by JREF2010

the Wis AG (the peoples lawyer) isnt interested in finding the truth...

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/ne...ial/383554001/

But parse this, the semantics that keep giving, JREF2010, I love this case like you do:

“What really matters here, to us and we hope to everyone, is that we get closer to the truth in this case and to justice for everyone,” they said in a joint statement.

But former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Janine Geske jumped to their defense.

“These two lawyers are top-notch,” Geske said of Strang and Buting. “Avery couldn’t have had better representation.”

Geske said attorneys sometimes become combative in cases like Avery’s.

“Going after the DA is always a part of it (defense motions for post-conviction relief),” Geske said. “Prosecutors take allegations of wrongful convictions very hard.”

Geske said Avery’s request for a new trial will ultimately be decided on its legal merits.

“Sarcasm and nastiness don’t play a role,” she said. “It doesn’t play well with judges.”

[JREF2010]

geeez this is bad (as in Pam-BlasphemyGod)...this is a video of the actual path she took.
its beyond a lie what she claims and the fact RH gave her directions and a camera etc...is more believable than ever. of course Im a virtual juror, so I know a lot of the real evidence wont cut it in court or be allowed by the Judge Willis types and Dennys of the world.

but I'd never seen this and it gives a new perspective what Pam the Liar did...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pQ1Xxt90tE

[Wayward son]

7th Circuit affirmed that Dassey's confession was involuntary, upholding the overturning of the conviction. The State looks as though they will appeal yet again.

"The decision of the district court is AFFIRMED in all respects. The writ of habeas corpus is GRANTED unless the State of Wisconsin elects to retry Dassey within 90 days of issuance of this court’s final mandate, or of the Supreme Court’s final mandate.” U.S. Court of Appeals, 7th Circuit, June 22, 2017.

---
"officers try to pin him down on time frames and details, but they are like waves on the sand. Even the State has trouble telling its version of the timeline of the story in any cogent manner due to the fact that it changed with each re‐telling."

[JREF2010]

interesting few days. very possible the State will release him this time. Brendan was already at the door last time and had given his prison stuff away before the 11thHr Attorney General move to keep him locked up...right? so I think that cards been played and I give the State credit for having the Video for this case. (the Knox/Sollecito trial this video was missing yet the interrogation was huge in condemning them) .
great they had the video done and it worked for just this reason.
theres more laws to change obviously like Prosecutors being held more accountable financially and prison sentence wise. That might slow them down to blaming and framing the wrong person.

Ive read all the affadavits but my real interest lately is digging up all the clips of the Jurors interviews. very interesting stuff that went on with the jurors....one jurors comment could be enough for a retrial all in itself. Of course tied to the Brady violations.

MAM2 was contacted by one juror who mentioned they thought Steve was framed and there was trading of votes as some had hoped this "trading" game would get Steve a new trial but that never happened. I hope MAM2 really goes deep into the Juror decision room...

Its amazingly interesting what happened in that black box called the juror room as it started with 7 saying Not Guilty.... I'd love to been a fly on the wall, or be able to watch a video of the jurors and how they were swayed away to voting Guilty. Maybe a law to video tape the juror room or some kind of legal team needs to be present to prevent Bullying and Fear of voting....maybe a juror should have the option to "vote out" immediately after the closing arguments, and be able to Vote then without the juror room. Why not? If I watched the trial and I made my mind up I should be able to vote and go home instead of sitting in a room with a possible "planted" juror who bullys and intimidates or manipulates people to change their Vote...right?


Zellners strongest evidence legally might be the Brady violation-withheld evidence angle.

One juror, when asked why they voted guilty and what they thought happened to murder victim Teresa Halbach, said “Torture and rape. Then he shot her in the head. He cut her up and put her in a burn barrel.”

The juror’s comments are significant because no evidence of Teresa being raped and tortured was allowed in Avery’s trial. That information comes from a confession given by Avery’s nephew Brendan Dassey and was part of a pre-trial press conference given by prosecutor Ken Kratz.

Maybe Buting and Strang didnt do so bad of a job really...if the votes were initially 7 Not Guilty...hmm?

[Samson]

And to show law and history degrees do not guarantee conformity with these rogue judges on Dassey, this from an authority on another blog

""For sure he helped burn her body and get rid of evidence. I believe his confession that he also raped her. Far from no one believing him many do. I don't think that he should have gotten life but someone else got to make that call not me. Moreover, all that matters is what the jury believed not what I believe. There was no legal basis to vacate the jury decision. An activist court undid the jury verdict but the state is appealing so it is far from over.

The 7th Circuit in made up of 11 judges (there are 2 seats vacant one of which Trump has nominated a replacement for). Cases are heard by a panel of only 3 judges but parties can appeal such a ruling requesting an en banc hearing. If a majority of judges vote to hear the case then the 3 judge panel decision is vacated and treated as if it never existed and all active judges hear the case. That decision is subject to further appeal to the US Supreme Court. If they don't vote to hear it en banc then the state can still appeal to the US Supreme Court.

So there is still a way to go before the fat lady sings.""

[JREF2010]

Theres supposedly a release/bond filed for Brendan.

So will the State file to keep him locked up again?

The Defense is moving forward as they should. The State has to decide to go against the 7th new ruling or drop the whole thing.

STATE is the unknown for now....the options seem to be.

Re-Trial more 16yr old confession crap & no evidence found of Brendan anywhere. Does the State want to waste more money ? probably not.

FULL 7th Re-Vote:
To have one more 7th Vote of everyone is another option for the State. Its cheaper than a retrial and more likely, imo.
Seems silly because whats the point really of having the 3-Judge thing if anyone who loses asks for the Full Vote? I suspect this request will probably be rejected too. But it is cheaper than a retrial.

DROP IT: State could toss Kratz under the bus as a loser poster boy. The new politicians can have photops with Brendan on TV and take his "popular vote" side on tv. They could spin it in their favor and use the already tainted sweatyProsecutor as the bad-egg loser whose to blame for wasting all the states money. and the politicians can then start some more Brendan Bill! geeez... very likely if the popular vote in Wisconsin is to Free Brendan.

Beg the US Supreme Court to review and overturn it back to a Guilty verdict...probably seems a big request when all the MCSD has is a video tape with no scientific evidence of Brendan a 16yr old retarded kid being asked by Weaslegart "so we'll come out and tell you...who shot her in the head?!? you can home if you tell us the right answer we want to hear""we're your friends...Im going to rub your leg with my hand and get you candy "
Highly unlikely isnt it?


This is where Factbender/Weaslegart screwed up. When TF sent the request for PoofyHair Lab gal to put Avery in the garage or trailer, he probably should have requested some last minute DNA of Brendan in there too or maybe had Lenk and Colburn find something of the victim in Brendans pant pocket.

Is it too late for Lenk and AC to go back to the trailer and find maybe something with the victims DNA and Brendans? Maybe Lenk and AC could find something of the victims in Brendans pant pocket... like they found the bullet and key on Steve placing him in the trailer and garage much much later.
Maybe they could lay another Key in the middle of the floor but this time its in Brendans trailer with Brednans DNA on a "spare key" from the SUV. Maybe find a bullet all the investigators missed the first 12 times they went through the garage? hmmm...

If Brendans released should he stay in MCSD?

[Samson]

Originally Posted by JREF2010

Theres supposedly a release/bond filed for Brendan.

So will the State file to keep him locked up again?

The Defense is moving forward as they should. The State has to decide to go against the 7th new ruling or drop the whole thing.

STATE is the unknown for now....the options seem to be.

Re-Trial more 16yr old confession crap & no evidence found of Brendan anywhere. Does the State want to waste more money ? probably not.

FULL 7th Re-Vote:
To have one more 7th Vote of everyone is another option for the State. Its cheaper than a retrial and more likely, imo.
Seems silly because whats the point really of having the 3-Judge thing if anyone who loses asks for the Full Vote? I suspect this request will probably be rejected too. But it is cheaper than a retrial.

DROP IT: State could toss Kratz under the bus as a loser poster boy. The new politicians can have photops with Brendan on TV and take his "popular vote" side on tv. They could spin it in their favor and use the already tainted sweatyProsecutor as the bad-egg loser whose to blame for wasting all the states money. and the politicians can then start some more Brendan Bill! geeez... very likely if the popular vote in Wisconsin is to Free Brendan.

Beg the US Supreme Court to review and overturn it back to a Guilty verdict...probably seems a big request when all the MCSD has is a video tape with no scientific evidence of Brendan a 16yr old retarded kid being asked by Weaslegart "so we'll come out and tell you...who shot her in the head?!? you can home if you tell us the right answer we want to hear""we're your friends...Im going to rub your leg with my hand and get you candy "
Highly unlikely isnt it?


This is where Factbender/Weaslegart screwed up. When TF sent the request for PoofyHair Lab gal to put Avery in the garage or trailer, he probably should have requested some last minute DNA of Brendan in there too or maybe had Lenk and Colburn find something of the victim in Brendans pant pocket.

Is it too late for Lenk and AC to go back to the trailer and find maybe something with the victims DNA and Brendans? Maybe Lenk and AC could find something of the victims in Brendans pant pocket... like they found the bullet and key on Steve placing him in the trailer and garage much much later.
Maybe they could lay another Key in the middle of the floor but this time its in Brendans trailer with Brednans DNA on a "spare key" from the SUV. Maybe find a bullet all the investigators missed the first 12 times they went through the garage? hmmm...

If Brendans released should he stay in MCSD?

From my vantage point, it would bring the US Supreme Court into total disrepute to be implicated in the continued captivity of Brendan.
Nothing should surprise when form so often trumps function in justice, but that would shock me beyond belief.

[Chris_Halkides]

A discussion of confessions and how this relates to the Dassey case, courtesy of Cornell.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by Samson

From my vantage point, it would bring the US Supreme Court into total disrepute to be implicated in the continued captivity of Brendan.
Nothing should surprise when form so often trumps function in justice, but that would shock me beyond belief.

I was pretty shocked when a sitting SCOTUS Justice, as part of a formal dissent, expressed the opinion that there was no Constitutional basis for preventing the execution of the actually innocent as long as the trial which declared them guilty had crossed all the "t"s and dotted all the "i"s. Later evidence be damned.

Tough to top that one.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I was pretty shocked when a sitting SCOTUS Justice, as part of a formal dissent, expressed the opinion that there was no Constitutional basis for preventing the execution of the actually innocent as long as the trial which declared them guilty had crossed all the "t"s and dotted all the "i"s. Later evidence be damned.

Tough to top that one.

I guess some would have shed few tears when his hunting was curtailed.

[wasapi]

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I was pretty shocked when a sitting SCOTUS Justice, as part of a formal dissent, expressed the opinion that there was no Constitutional basis for preventing the execution of the actually innocent as long as the trial which declared them guilty had crossed all the "t"s and dotted all the "i"s. Later evidence be damned.

Tough to top that one.

It is shocking. Also difficult to comprehend.

[Agatha]

This thread is getting long and putting a strain on the server, so I have opened a continuation thread here

Posted By:Agatha