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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 9th October 2020, 12:49 PM   #1081
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Which makes me happy!
Indeed a Trump meltdown might help demonstrate Pelosi's point.
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Old 9th October 2020, 01:08 PM   #1082
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Considering that earlier today Trump claimed that Democrats want to kill new born babies, then Trump is obviously afflicted with some very serious mental disorders.
He didn't just claim they wanted to kill babies, he said a Governor had actually executed a newborn baby. Stable genius indeed.
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Old 9th October 2020, 01:42 PM   #1083
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
From what we're seeing, I'd say Trump needs to be watched even more closely than usual.

At a distance, please! At a distance! Unless wearing a hazmat suit.
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Old 9th October 2020, 01:47 PM   #1084
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
At a distance, please! At a distance! Unless wearing a hazmat suit.
I wouldn't get near him even if he didn't have Covid. He makes my skin crawl even on TV. I can't imagine the gag reflex in person.
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Old 9th October 2020, 01:48 PM   #1085
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Pelosi's bill isn't going anywhere but she knows that. Besides, it's for future presidents. But I think she's trying to make a point that even as nutty as Trump has become, if the Senate is in the POTUS pocket as it is right now, they will do everything to protect him no matter what. Obviously, the 25th is not going to protect the country from a batcrap crazy president as long as his/her party is enabling him/her.
The real issue is that the 25th, as ratified in 1967, provided a mechanism for Congress to create some sort of "body" with independent authority and it failed to do so. If they had done it at a time when the President's fitness was a purely theoretical matter, there would actually have been an recognized advisory group who could have looked at Trump years ago.

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Old 9th October 2020, 01:54 PM   #1086
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I wouldn't get near him even if he didn't have Covid. He makes my skin crawl even on TV. I can't imagine the gag reflex in person.
If the rumours are right, then covid-anosmia would be a minor benefit if you had to spend time near him
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Old 9th October 2020, 02:01 PM   #1087
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The 25th is only useful if the POTUS is recognizably physically incapacitated as in dead/stroke/comatose. Its vulnerability is in what we're seeing now; mental illness. If his party is in power, they will cover for him and enable him as we are seeing now. There has to be a way for an independent body of psychiatrists to be able to examine him and declare him either fit or unfit to govern.
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Old 9th October 2020, 02:13 PM   #1088
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The 25th is only useful if the POTUS is recognizably physically incapacitated as in dead/stroke/comatose. Its vulnerability is in what we're seeing now; mental illness. If his party is in power, they will cover for him and enable him as we are seeing now. There has to be a way for an independent body of psychiatrists to be able to examine him and declare him either fit or unfit to govern.

I don't think that's true. The 25th provides for action when "the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office...". That could certainly be construed to include mental illness or disability, and the "body" Congress creates could certainly include medical doctors, psychiatrists and even judges and scholars who would consider whether the President is fulfilling his oath to "faithfully execute the Office of President" ... and "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv
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Old 9th October 2020, 02:51 PM   #1089
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But there is no mechanism for Congress to initiate the process on their own. It's, "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide."

This is a symbolic action. Nothing will come of it because Pence isn't going to sign off.
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Old 9th October 2020, 02:52 PM   #1090
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't think that's true. The 25th provides for action when "the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office...". That could certainly be construed to include mental illness or disability, and the "body" Congress creates could certainly include medical doctors, psychiatrists and even judges and scholars who would consider whether the President is fulfilling his oath to "faithfully execute the Office of President" ... and "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv
Yes, but as I said, when the POTUS's party is in power, they will protect and enable him. It's much more difficult to prove mental incapacity than physical incapacity. You can see when someone is dead/in a coma/ had a debilitating stroke. You can only hide that for so long in this day and age. But look at Trump and his behavior. It's rather clear that he needs to be mentally assessed by a team of psychiatrists but there's no way we can force him to be and that is what Pelosi's bill needs to address. In the future, no party should be able to keep a mentally ill president in office simply because they control one house of Congress.
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Old 9th October 2020, 03:04 PM   #1091
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, but as I said, when the POTUS's party is in power, they will protect and enable him. It's much more difficult to prove mental incapacity than physical incapacity. You can see when someone is dead/in a coma/ had a debilitating stroke. You can only hide that for so long in this day and age. But look at Trump and his behavior. It's rather clear that he needs to be mentally assessed by a team of psychiatrists but there's no way we can force him to be and that is what Pelosi's bill needs to address. In the future, no party should be able to keep a mentally ill president in office simply because they control one house of Congress.
You would need a Constitutional amendment to allow that to happen. There is no mechanism to remove a President based on perceived mental incapacity by a party that doesn't control both houses of the Congress. Otherwise, impeachment might work . . . but it would be unprecedented to impeach someone based mental incapacity.

The Dems know there's no shot of this actually working. They want to raise the question with a symbolic bill in hopes of influencing the election. But they have to be very careful with overplaying their hand. If perceieved mental incapacity becomes a basis on which to impeach or invoke the 25th, what's to stop future Republican Congresses from ousting future Dem presidents like Barack Obama on that basis?
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Old 9th October 2020, 03:13 PM   #1092
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You would need a Constitutional amendment to allow that to happen. There is no mechanism to remove a President based on perceived mental incapacity by a party that doesn't control both houses of the Congress. Otherwise, impeachment might work . . . but it would be unprecedented to impeach someone based mental incapacity.

The Dems know there's no shot of this actually working. They want to raise the question with a symbolic bill in hopes of influencing the election. But they have to be very careful with overplaying their hand. If perceieved mental incapacity becomes a basis on which to impeach or invoke the 25th, what's to stop future Republican Congresses from ousting future Dem presidents like Barack Obama on that basis?

The amendment exists. It provides that "such other body as Congress may by law provide" may transfer the powers of the President to the VP as Acting President. If the President contests that decision, he must resume office unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote against him, just like impeachment.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

Realistically, removal would be extremely unlikely. But it would be a way to conduct an independent investigation and present the evidence to the public, and the prospect of investigation and removal would be an incentive for the President to step aside voluntarily. Recall that Nixon was never impeached; the prospect of it was enough to persuade him to resign.

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Old 9th October 2020, 03:19 PM   #1093
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The amendment exists. It provides that "such other body as Congress may by law provide" may transfer the powers of the President to the VP as Acting President. If the President contests that decision, he must resume office unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote against him, just like impeachment.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

Realistically, removal would be extremely unlikely. But it would be a way to conduct an independent investigation and present the evidence to the public, and the prospect of investigation and removal would be an incentive for the President to step aside voluntarily. Recall that Nixon was never impeached; the prospect of it was enough to persuade him to resign.
I quoted the part you left out. Here it is again, "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide. . . " It's the Vice President AND either the cabinet or other body set up by Congress.
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Old 9th October 2020, 03:22 PM   #1094
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Thanks, Bob001. Exactly. By having the POTUS assessed by an independent team of psychiatrists at least the Congress would be informed that he's either mentally fit or not. It would be rather difficult to vote against removing him and replacing him with the VP if the doctors deem him mentally unfit to govern.
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Old 9th October 2020, 07:25 PM   #1095
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I quoted the part you left out. Here it is again, "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide. . . " It's the Vice President AND either the cabinet or other body set up by Congress.
That might be what would be required for removal. It wouldn't prevent "such other body" from conducting an investigation and reporting its conclusions to the Congress, the VP and the public.
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Old 14th October 2020, 06:08 PM   #1096
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From the content of Trump's tweeting and his rallies, I do think Trump's connection to reality is becoming weaker. As Dr. Bandy Lee predicted, as the stress of the election is getting closer, the polls are not going his way, and several investigations are not producing the results he wants, he's becoming more and more irrational. Retweeting several CT's, saying he's saved the suburbs, declaring he's ahead in the polls when he's clearly not, declaring he's immune, declaring the pandemic is 'turning the corner' when it's getting worse, etc. are all evidence he's not playing with a full deck.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:00 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
From the content of Trump's tweeting and his rallies, I do think Trump's connection to reality is becoming weaker. As Dr. Bandy Lee predicted, as the stress of the election is getting closer, the polls are not going his way, and several investigations are not producing the results he wants, he's becoming more and more irrational. Retweeting several CT's, saying he's saved the suburbs, declaring he's ahead in the polls when he's clearly not, declaring he's immune, declaring the pandemic is 'turning the corner' when it's getting worse, etc. are all evidence he's not playing with a full deck.
His declaring a desire to "kiss everybody" was pretty eyebrow-raising, even for him. That's a weirdo thing for any president to say, even if he weren't teeming with plague viruses.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:02 PM   #1098
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
His declaring a desire to "kiss everybody" was pretty eyebrow-raising, even for him. That's a weirdo thing for any president to say, even if he weren't teeming with plague viruses.
But for God's sake, don't dare say he's got a screw loose without seeing him in person!


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Old 16th October 2020, 10:02 AM   #1099
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I was wondering where to put this - but he seems to be unable to assess stories. Probably even the majority of his more moronic supporters might have thought this wasn't how Twitter worked:



Quote:
"Dorsey ran downstairs and started smashing as many computers as he could, but he did need to ask for some help, as the hammer was pretty heavy. None of the programmers could lift the hammer, either. Eventually, they managed to program a robot to pick up the sledgehammer and smash the servers."


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...44556328730625

Quote:
Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News https://babylonbee.com/news/twitter-...ive-biden-news
via
@TheBabylonBee
Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T
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Old 16th October 2020, 05:21 PM   #1100
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I was wondering where to put this - but he seems to be unable to assess stories. Probably even the majority of his more moronic supporters might have thought this wasn't how Twitter worked:







https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...44556328730625
I highly doubt Trump read the story at all. He simply read the headline, saw it was Biden negative and retweeted it. It wouldn't cross his mind to actually read it. For him it's all about quantity, not substance. It's the same reason he won't denounce QAnon. Quantity over Quality.

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Old 17th October 2020, 08:14 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It’s just become quite obvious that one of the local docs is a Trump supporter; she just posted this in response to another doctor saying he has real problems with the message Trump is sending with his latest actions:



See, here is a clear case of an ethical breach. She has a strong pro-Trump bias and shouldn’t be giving her opinion as a professional. This post clearly isn’t a professional opinion, but she has done so in the past.

It’s just flabbergasting to me that someone I respect, who was a mentor to my wife, can be so so so blinded by her political biases. How can she actually believe the words she wrote there? I know Doctors are human and subject to the same critical thinking issues we all are. I think this case is a good illustration of exactly why doctors should steer clear of making political statements When you couple her public professional opinions about Joe Biden and her personal pro-Trump bias, I think it just lowers the credibility of doctors one doctor at a time.
That sounds so much like people defending the righteousness and compassion of some televangelist who's in the middle of a scandal involving a couple of hookers and the embezzlement of millions from his ministry. This is how cult leaders are often able to keep going, even after they're exposed as liars and charlatans. People need them to be heroes so badly that they simply ignore reality.

I also find her characterization of Trump as a billionaire who chooses to keep working out of a sense of altruism to be funny. The guy's a life-long grifter whose "wealth" is largely a sham. He parades around flaunting his lifestyle, but it's all borrowed or stolen. He has to keep the grift going in a desperate attempt to stop his castle of sand and crap from collapsing on him.
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Old 17th October 2020, 08:24 PM   #1102
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Nice, nice people. And very stable, considering all the madness and viruses they're riddled with!
And they aren't even inbred. Not that the Donald hasn't tried.
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Old 17th October 2020, 08:28 PM   #1103
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
He didn't just claim they wanted to kill babies, he said a Governor had actually executed a newborn baby. Stable genius indeed.
To be fair, that baby had lured at least a dozen people into his home, where he trapped them, ate them, and buried their remains in his crawlspace.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:58 AM   #1104
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
That sounds so much like people defending the righteousness and compassion of some televangelist who's in the middle of a scandal involving a couple of hookers and the embezzlement of millions from his ministry. This is how cult leaders are often able to keep going, even after they're exposed as liars and charlatans. People need them to be heroes so badly that they simply ignore reality.
....

They also don't want to admit they've been played for suckers. Con men routinely hit their marks again and again because they keep thinking "this time it'll be different."
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Old 19th October 2020, 08:24 AM   #1105
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By the way ...

In case anyone has not heard the latest from whacky Trump, Biden is going to cancel Christmas.

Also, when Trump was the president, somehow Biden managed to shut down Reno, NV and Las Vegas, NV.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...A5j22r-J2020WC

Trump Makes His Weirdest War On Christmas Attack Yet

Ed Mazza·Overnight Editor, HuffPost
Mon, October 19, 2020, 3:02 AM EDT·3 mins read

Halloween is nearly two weeks away, but President Donald Trump just fired a salvo in the “war on Christmas” with a strange new line of attack on former Vice President Joe Biden.

While speaking in Carson City, Nevada, on Sunday, Trump seemed to blame the coronavirus lockdowns earlier this year on Biden.

“Under the Biden lockdown, the lights of Reno and Las Vegas were extinguished,” he said.

Yet Trump was president during the lockdowns this year. Biden was a private citizen with no government role at all.

Trump then claimed Biden would cancel the upcoming Christmas season if elected.

...
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Old 19th October 2020, 12:51 PM   #1106
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Nah, he's not crazy at all.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 09:01 PM   #1107
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Mary Trump has some thoughts about the Goldwater Rule:
Quote:
....
But in March 2017, shortly after my uncle, Donald Trump, was inaugurated, the APA didn’t just reaffirm the rule — it expanded it past the point of coherence. Not only were members prohibited from diagnosing public figures, now they could no longer offer a professional opinion of any sort, no matter how well supported or evidence-based, even if they believed that a public figure posed a threat to the country’s citizens or national security.

This is absurd on its face and has potentially serious consequences for the safety of the American people. While psychiatric diagnosis is a technical process, it is entirely within bounds to draw conclusions based on observable behavior. It is one thing to declare definitively that a person has anti-social personality disorder (a specific diagnostic term); it is another to point to behaviors — such as deliberately putting other people in harm’s way for no discernible reason (for example, abandoning our Kurdish allies) beyond one’s own self-interest — and express the general conclusion that it is dangerous to have somebody in the Oval Office who is incapable of empathy. The APA has also stated that “psychiatrists are medical doctors; evaluating mental illness is no less thorough than diagnosing diabetes or heart disease.” That’s true — but what might a cardiologist say if a public figure kept having heart attacks? Would he need to be subjected to a “thorough” diagnostic regimen for a doctor to speculate that there might be an underlying heart condition? If the person who kept having heart attacks was a pilot who refused to seek medical attention, wouldn’t it be malpractice not to speak out? It is not an exaggeration to say that Donald has exhibited pathological behavior that is equally alarming — as evidenced most recently by his callous disregard for his own health and the well-being of those around him when he left Walter Reed hospital while still shedding coronavirus, or when he holds rallies and encourages thousands of people to attend without wearing masks or social distancing in order to prop up his ego.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...6ed_story.html

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Old 22nd October 2020, 11:35 PM   #1108
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I have to agree with her. I suspect the APA expanded the rule directly because of Trump.
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Old 23rd October 2020, 06:18 AM   #1109
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More shrinks weigh in:
Quote:
Alarmingly, Trump is losing his grip on reality. He is agitated. He seems to be hypomanic — quite likely exacerbated by his COVID-19 medications. He has become paranoid. He has been calling out for his political opponents to be indicted. He has been preoccupied with a totally fake conspiracy theory about Barack Obama and Joe Biden spying on his campaign. He is lashing out at some of his most loyal cabinet members. He is even blaming Gold Star families for giving him COVID-19.
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/21/don...rse-every-day/
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Old 23rd October 2020, 06:23 AM   #1110
Bob001
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,733
And from a neurologist:
Quote:
A professor of Neurology at George Washington University says he believes there may be legitimate concerns over President Donald J. Trump's "forward-listing posture" that goes beyond the comical memes and gif responses normally shared on social media.

"I know something about political figures and observable signs of illness from afar," Richard E. Cytowic M.D. wrote in Psychology Today. ". . . The American public deserves an accurate account of our president's health."
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/22/pre...xpert_partner/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...his-brain-scan
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Old 23rd October 2020, 06:28 AM   #1111
Bob001
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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And from his old pal Anthony Scaramucci:
Quote:
"I'm out there trying to educate as many people as possible at the systemic danger that Mr. Trump represents to our democracy." Those were part of the opening words of my conversation earlier this week with former Trump White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci on "Salon Talks." And it went downhill from there for Trump.
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/22/ant...-him-mentally/
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Old 23rd October 2020, 10:39 AM   #1112
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And from his old pal Anthony Scaramucci:

https://www.salon.com/2020/10/22/ant...-him-mentally/
I enjoyed Scaramucci's interview. He's actually a much more intelligent and interesting person than I've given him credit for. I found his self-reflection on why he supported Trump at first and why he eventually stopped believable. As he said, you don't have to be a psychiatrist to see that Trump is unwell.

It's extremely telling that never before have we seen the numbers of ex-members of an administration, members of the same party of a president, members of the mental health community and ex-members of the Intelligence community come out in support of a sitting president's opponent in an election.
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