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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:02 AM   #1
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Biden for President? Pt 2

Quote:
I really, really want Trump to come out and say the exact same thing Biden said, word for word. Just to see what happens.
That would be weird, even for him. I mean, he keeps talking about himself in the third person, but given he's incredibly racist, it'd also be an incredibly strange statement.

Then again, choosing between Trump and Trump is probably exactly the scenario Trump would want for the 2020 election.

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The left can find subtle racism and white supremacy in Peloton videos but Good Ol' Joe was just joking.
It's as if they are different people or something.


Mod InfoContinued from this thread. You may quote or respond to any post in that thread.
Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But leave it to the Trumpers to go ballistic over this.
Of course they do. They'll excuse, deny, or deflect whenever Trump does anything, but then gleefully point out whenever evul feminazi libruls do the same thing. Typical schoolyard bully MO, except this time it's not 12 year olds, it's adults with voting rights.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:28 AM   #3
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Biden makes gaffes. He has a long history of it. It won't be the last before November.

Biden apologized. Trump would probably deny he said it at all and blame the media for Fake News.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
No, he really didn't, which is obvious even in the clip.
Yeah, but that doesn't make as good a story. Gotta get those clicks, ya know!

This will blow over in a few days.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:35 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Biden makes gaffes. He has a long history of it. It won't be the last before November.

Biden apologized. Trump would probably deny he said it at all and blame the media for Fake News.
Which proves that Trump doesn't make any gaffes!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:54 AM   #6
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Of course he gave a fake apology. And of course you're all accepting it without question.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Of course he gave a fake apology. And of course you're all accepting it without question.
As I said, I am not that bothered by it. But sure, if Biden thought that what he said was wrong, then isn't apologizing for it what he is supposed to do?

I mean, we often hear about people who say the wrong thing, sometimes on Twitter, sometimes on TV, and that that is not enough. We want more! We want blood!

What do you want?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
As I said, I am not that bothered by it. But sure, if Biden thought that what he said was wrong, then isn't apologizing for it what he is supposed to do?

I mean, we often hear about people who say the wrong thing, sometimes on Twitter, sometimes on TV, and that that is not enough. We want more! We want blood!

What do you want?
Trolls, feed, don't, bait, derail, hypocrisy, etc.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
As I said, I am not that bothered by it. But sure, if Biden thought that what he said was wrong, then isn't apologizing for it what he is supposed to do?
Yes. But what makes you so sure Biden thought that what he said was wrong? I'm seeing absolutely no doubt or questioning of the sincerity of the apology from Biden supporters.

Quote:
What do you want?
How about a world where black people are allowed as much freedom to choose what to think as white people?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Of course he gave a fake apology. And of course you're all accepting it without question.
Sorry, no one is buying it. For a pretense of ethical standards to be effective, one requires at least a little bit of credibility.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Biden makes gaffes. He has a long history of it. It won't be the last before November.

Biden apologized. Trump would probably deny he said it at all and blame the media for Fake News.
With all gaffes being equal (which of course they’re not), I’ll probably go with the candidate who didn’t also kill thousands of Americans due gross incompetence.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Sorry, no one is buying it. For a pretense of ethical standards to be effective, one requires at least a little bit of credibility.
Then it looks like we agree. I don't buy it either, and I agree with your suggestion that for Biden's pretense of ethical standards to be effective, he's require at least a little bit of credibility.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:07 AM   #13
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I find it funny that POC that I follow on twitter didn't even react to the Biden joke in any personal way. Their reaction was "oh crap, what will white journalists do with this?" They are so in for Biden that they were simply worried about how the media would portray it.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:45 AM   #14
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Quick hint: people from a political party that tries to stop us from voting at all, and then calls us brainwashed plantation slaves that only want welfare when we respond negatively, don't have a say here.

In other words, the more or less universal reaction from black Americans to GOPers trying to make hay out of this is "shut up."
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Then it looks like we agree. I don't buy it either, and I agree with your suggestion that for Biden's pretense of ethical standards to be effective, he's require at least a little bit of credibility.
My hat’s off to you. That was well played.

But you raise an interesting point.

Personally, I don’t think Biden lacks credibility on the issue of ethical standards, but my standards might not be as high as yours.

What’s one ethical standard that you think is important for a presidential candidate to have where Biden lacks credibility?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Quick hint: people from a political party that tries to stop us from voting at all, and then calls us brainwashed plantation slaves that only want welfare when we respond negatively, don't have a say here.

In other words, the more or less universal reaction from black Americans to GOPers trying to make hay out of this is "shut up."
And the more the GOP tries to push it, the more it will backfire on them.

Prediction: This will be gone from all legitimate media within a few days.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I find it funny that POC that I follow on twitter didn't even react to the Biden joke in any personal way.
Why would you find that funny? It's your Twitter feed, right? You curate it, you filter it for viewpoints that interest you, etc. Do you even follow any conservative POC on Twitter? Why would your own feed that you picked out yourself surprise you?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:03 PM   #18
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This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”

What we get is:

“Believe Women, just not that one! Biden 2020.”

“Don’t be an Uncle Tom, Vote for Uncle Joe! Biden 2020.”

“I’m Joe Biden. I apologize for those messages so please still vote for me.”
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:13 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”

What we get is:

“Believe Women, just not that one! Biden 2020.”

“Don’t be an Uncle Tom, Vote for Uncle Joe! Biden 2020.”

“I’m Joe Biden. I apologize for those messages so please still vote for me.”
"Listen to women, hear their accusation" is not "believe their (contradictory) accusation(s) and prevent anyone else with an accusation from making it" She's been heard. She's shown herself full of it.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:01 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”
.....
In the system we have, and that we had no role in designing, the realistic choice is between two candidates. There is substantial evidence that if the people who cast "protest" votes for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein in the battleground states had voted for Clinton, she would have won. There is no doubt that if the "pox on both your houses" voters who stayed home had held their noses and voted for Clinton, she would have won. In 2000 in Florida, if the people who cast protest votes for Ralph Nader had voted for Al Gore, he would have won.

Biden would not have been my first choice. Based on the primary results, he was not a lot of voters' first choice. But today, a vote for anyone but Biden, or no vote at all, is a vote for Trump. That would be the worst outcome.

Last edited by Bob001; 23rd May 2020 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”

What we get is:

“Believe Women, just not that one! Biden 2020.”

“Don’t be an Uncle Tom, Vote for Uncle Joe! Biden 2020.”
Yet again.

"Believe women" does not mean "and ignore all available evidence." At this point, I'm treating "Reade is an exception because she accused a democrat!" as a bad faith argument.

Quote:
“I’m Joe Biden. I apologize for those messages so please still vote for me.”
What we *actually* got was "Here's my agenda for black America. I'm going to reverse the damage Trump has done, and build on what Obama and I did in 2008-2016." But, you know, feel free take a quick joke, misquote it, and treat it as the entire message.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 26th May 2020 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Trolls, feed, don't, bait, derail, hypocrisy, etc.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Sorry, no one is buying it. For a pretense of ethical standards to be effective, one requires at least a little bit of credibility.
Wot? We've been told repeatedly that credibility is irrelevant in determining whether someone is telling the truth or not. Get with the program, dude!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 01:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Yet again.

"Believe women" does not mean "and ignore all available evidence." At this point, I'm treating "Reade is an exception because she accused a democrat!" as a bad faith argument.



What we *actually* got was "Here's my agenda for black America. I'm going to reverse the damage Trump has done, and build on what Obama and I did in 2008-2016." But, you know, feel free take a quick joke, misquote it, and treat it as the entire message.

Don't know why we should treat you as anything but a clown, but you can do that.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Yet again.

"Believe women" does not mean "and ignore all available evidence." At this point, I'm treating "Reade is an exception because she accused a democrat!" as a bad faith argument.



What we *actually* got was "Here's my agenda for black America. I'm going to reverse the damage Trump has done, and build on what Obama and I did in 2008-2016." But, you know, feel free take a quick joke, misquote it, and treat it as the entire message.

Don't know why we should treat you as anything but a clown, but you can do that.

A quote from his plan for Black America:


“He is running for President to rebuild our economy in a way that finally brings everyone along—and that starts by rooting out systemic racism from our laws, our policies, our institutions, and our hearts.”

Do you not see his “joke” as a kind of racism that is rooted in his heart? Maybe you don’t, I don’t know. Here’s what I do know, any little thing a Republican does cannot be written off as a badly worded joke. Cannot be dismissed as a gaffe (gaffe is a word that is exclusively used for Biden, which I find interesting). Those things that are seen as, “Oh, Uncle Joe, you behave now...” are signs of mental illness, racism, evil, blah blah blah when a Republican does it.

Republican candidates have had nice little blurbs in their platforms about what they are going to do for Black America, too. What does it actually mean when any candidate writes some nice ad copy for their campaign? Nothing. What matters is what they say and do, right?

It’s just that sometimes it feels like what truly matters is what side they are on. Every Democrat is an ally and every Republican is the enemy -and vice versa, make no mistake- and what they say and do (or are accused of) is interpreted thusly.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”

What we get is:

“Believe Women, just not that one! Biden 2020.”

“Don’t be an Uncle Tom, Vote for Uncle Joe! Biden 2020.”

“I’m Joe Biden. I apologize for those messages so please still vote for me.”
The dishonesty of your argument has already been laid bare by other posters, so no need to go into any of that.

But the crux of your concerns seems to be that Democrats aren’t being critical enough of Biden compared to how critical they are of Trump.

And there’s some degree of legitimacy to that concern, under normal circumstances.

But these aren’t normal circumstances.

We are literally living in the worst case scenario a lot of us feared when Trump got elected.

“Both sides are bad” doesn’t fly anymore. Republicans are demonstrably worse. We’ve got the stack of dead bodies and their complete disregard for how big that stack is to prove it.

So my question to you is: How many Americans need to die due to Trump’s complete and total ineptitude before getting him out of office should be the primary goal?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
A quote from his plan for Black America:


“He is running for President to rebuild our economy in a way that finally brings everyone along—and that starts by rooting out systemic racism from our laws, our policies, our institutions, and our hearts.”

Do you not see his “joke” as a kind of racism that is rooted in his heart? Maybe you don’t, I don’t know. Here’s what I do know, any little thing a Republican does cannot be written off as a badly worded joke. Cannot be dismissed as a gaffe (gaffe is a word that is exclusively used for Biden, which I find interesting). Those things that are seen as, “Oh, Uncle Joe, you behave now...” are signs of mental illness, racism, evil, blah blah blah when a Republican does it.

Republican candidates have had nice little blurbs in their platforms about what they are going to do for Black America, too. What does it actually mean when any candidate writes some nice ad copy for their campaign? Nothing. What matters is what they say and do, right?

It’s just that sometimes it feels like what truly matters is what side they are on. Every Democrat is an ally and every Republican is the enemy -and vice versa, make no mistake- and what they say and do (or are accused of) is interpreted thusly.
Cool.

Here’s you quite passionately and eloquently explaining why don’t believe Trump is a bigot and also it doesn’t matter if he is.

Seems your standards have dipped a bit in the intervening years.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Of course he gave a fake apology. And of course you're all accepting it without question.
You've been listening to too much Trump. Can't you tell a sincere apology when you hear it?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:44 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is truly amazing to me. Surprising.

But it really shouldn’t be. It’s been said many times that you could run a smelly sock (or whatever) against Trump and we should vote for the sock.

No mention of “man, both parties have given us some real stinkers; maybe we should all vote third-party and send a message to them.”

What we get is:

“Believe Women, just not that one! Biden 2020.”

“Don’t be an Uncle Tom, Vote for Uncle Joe! Biden 2020.”

“I’m Joe Biden. I apologize for those messages so please still vote for me.”
WTF nonsense is this?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:48 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
A quote from his plan for Black America:


“He is running for President to rebuild our economy in a way that finally brings everyone along—and that starts by rooting out systemic racism from our laws, our policies, our institutions, and our hearts.”

Do you not see his “joke” as a kind of racism that is rooted in his heart? Maybe you don’t, I don’t know. Here’s what I do know, any little thing a Republican does cannot be written off as a badly worded joke. Cannot be dismissed as a gaffe (gaffe is a word that is exclusively used for Biden, which I find interesting). Those things that are seen as, “Oh, Uncle Joe, you behave now...” are signs of mental illness, racism, evil, blah blah blah when a Republican does it.

Republican candidates have had nice little blurbs in their platforms about what they are going to do for Black America, too. What does it actually mean when any candidate writes some nice ad copy for their campaign? Nothing. What matters is what they say and do, right?

It’s just that sometimes it feels like what truly matters is what side they are on. Every Democrat is an ally and every Republican is the enemy -and vice versa, make no mistake- and what they say and do (or are accused of) is interpreted thusly.
In what part of Biden's apology did he say he was only joking?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:53 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The dishonesty of your argument has already been laid bare by other posters, so no need to go into any of that.

But the crux of your concerns seems to be that Democrats aren’t being critical enough of Biden compared to how critical they are of Trump.

And there’s some degree of legitimacy to that concern, under normal circumstances.
I'm pretty sure no one is brushing Biden's flaws under the rug, no one here anyway.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot
Of course he gave a fake apology. And of course you're all accepting it without question.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You've been listening to too much Trump. Can't you tell a sincere apology when you hear it?

He has nothing to compare it to with Trump who has never made an apology much less a sincere one. Trump is never wrong.
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Old 24th May 2020, 05:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
A quote from his plan for Black America:


“He is running for President to rebuild our economy in a way that finally brings everyone along—and that starts by rooting out systemic racism from our laws, our policies, our institutions, and our hearts.”

Do you not see his “joke” as a kind of racism that is rooted in his heart? Maybe you don’t, I don’t know. Here’s what I do know, any little thing a Republican does cannot be written off as a badly worded joke. Cannot be dismissed as a gaffe (gaffe is a word that is exclusively used for Biden, which I find interesting). Those things that are seen as, “Oh, Uncle Joe, you behave now...” are signs of mental illness, racism, evil, blah blah blah when a Republican does it.
Wanna know something? I've met Bill Weld, former republican governor of Massachusetts, on *many* occasions, as I was smart/lucky enough to go to the same school as one of his daughters. And while he wouldn't have made this sort of joke (he's far too uptight to even try), if he did...I'd let it slide. I wouldn't care much if Dolt 45 said it - although he's far too racist to do so, he's more of a "Go back to your ******** country of Africa!" angry and ignorant type. Frankly, I'd consider it a major deescalation.

What's in Biden's heart is his problem, not mine. What I expect is that he, like the vast majority of politicians, will try to enact his proposals.

Quote:
Republican candidates have had nice little blurbs in their platforms about what they are going to do for Black America, too. What does it actually mean when any candidate writes some nice ad copy for their campaign? Nothing. What matters is what they say and do, right?
It means a lot when they make particular promises. GWB was serious about recruiting nonwhite voters to the GOP, even if it didn't work, and he was badly undermined by others in his party.

Quote:
It’s just that sometimes it feels like what truly matters is what side they are on. Every Democrat is an ally and every Republican is the enemy -and vice versa, make no mistake- and what they say and do (or are accused of) is interpreted thusly.
No, Biden has earned the benefit of the doubt here. Yes, he's always been gaffe-prone. He's also an old white man who served the US as the first black president's (a man who, on paper, was less qualified than him) right hand man for nearly a decade, without complaint. And as much as younger people ant to make it out like he was the architect of mass incarceration - first, check out Nixon and Reagan, and second, having seen the devastation of the Crack Era, um, a lot of black people at the time were clamoring for violent criminals to be put under the jail.

Likewise, Dolt 45, and much of the modern GOP, have worked hard to earn their reputation. Voter suppression, demands that black people obey cops immediately but white people can stand and shriek at them, point AR-15s at them, and the like, divestment from black communities, howling that anything Obama did was "Reparations" or "Kenyan Anti-colonialism" (as if either would be wrong), putting a pack of overt white supremacists in charge of the executive branch, and so forth. It's not that we don't trust them, it's that we trust them to be aggressively anti-black, based on their long history of anti-black behavior.
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Old 24th May 2020, 10:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
WTF nonsense is this?
Why do you even ask? They have no way to defend the things the manchild in chief do and say, so they have to construct an imaginary universe where the other side is just as bad. Since both sides aren't as bad, however, this means cherry picking, strawmen, quotes taken out of context, and pretending quotes from the opposition are way worse than they are. And, of course, pretending the other side's supporters are just as and hypocritical and insincere as the trumpkins. It's been this way since 2016. It's not as if the trumpkins were completely rational up until May 24th, 2020, so no need to act so surprised.

Why this behaviour deserves to get any attention at all from any of us is the real question.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:34 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
In what part of Biden's apology did he say he was only joking?

I was responding to Mumbles who suggested that it was a “quick joke.”
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:25 PM   #36
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An interesting read on the latest Ukraine leaks, the phone calls between Porky and Creepy Joe not being the only ones:

The colonial status of “The Independent Ukraine” publicly confirmed

Conclusion:
Quote:
So, Trump now has compromising material on the Dem leadership. Will he use it? Probably not, unless he has to, for it is a double-edged sword. But if he is desperate, he might. In this case, the American public will learn in detail how the money stolen from Ukraine by its corrupt leaders, former and current, came to line the pockets of VIP Democrats.
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Old 24th May 2020, 09:35 PM   #37
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Tara Reade Loses Her Attorney as New Reporting Dents Her Story About Joe Biden

Nice roundup of recent developments.

There's much more but I'll quote this bit:
Quote:
On May 7, Laura McGann at Vox described how she had for months struggled to report out Reade’s story. In one particular challenging element, McGann noted that an anonymous corroborating witness had initially independently and explicitly volunteered to McGann that Biden “never tried to kiss [Reade] directly. He never went for one of those touches.” That friend now claims that Reade had told her of the assault and the forced kissing in 1993 at the time it happened. When McGann asked the friend why she had told McGann the opposite, the friend said “it just organically rolled out that way” and she “did not want to betray” Reade’s confidence.
It's seems like one of the so-called corroborating witnesses has told two different versions of the story that are incompatible with each other and offered a strange excuse as to why.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:00 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I was responding to Mumbles who suggested that it was a “quick joke.”
Soooo why not fact check that?

Biden never said any such thing.
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Old 25th May 2020, 12:34 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Reade has also been falsely claiming to have a degree from Antioch College and to have been a visiting professor there.

Quote:
Meanwhile, the reporting on Reade’s overall credibility has had results beyond the question of what may have happened between her and Biden. CNN’s reporters, for instance, found that Antioch University denied Reade’s claims that she had received a Bachelor of Arts degree from the school and that she had been a visiting professor there.

On Thursday, the New York Times further reported that public defenders in California were seeking to challenge convictions in which Reade had been an expert witness based on the possible falsification of her credentials. In addition to allegedly misrepresenting her educational background, Reade also told courts that she was a “legislative assistant” in Biden’s staff, when in fact she had been a more junior staff assistant. In at least one case, public defenders had raised objections to Reade’s testimony because of skepticism that she was qualified to be an expert, the Times reported, but were overruled by the judge in the case. Reade once testified in court that she had been an expert witness in more than 20 cases. Attorneys in some of those cases are now seeking to challenge convictions on the basis of Reade’s apparent false statements about her credentials.
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Old 25th May 2020, 10:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Reade has also been falsely claiming to have a degree from Antioch College and to have been a visiting professor there.
This is why accusers can't be immune to accusation. Liars can absolutely be sexually assaulted, but an established liar would need to present evidence (or have a single account of the incident) to overcome the history of lying.
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