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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 16th October 2020, 09:04 AM   #2841
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
Did Lincoln say this?
he did not nominate a new Judge for the seat that opened up 27 days before an election.

But arguably, the reason was not that he thought he shouldn't so close to an election, but rather that he didn't have the time and/or thought that he had the election in the bag anyway.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:18 AM   #2842
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
he did not nominate a new Judge for the seat that opened up 27 days before an election.

But arguably, the reason was not that he thought he shouldn't so close to an election, but rather that he didn't have the time and/or thought that he had the election in the bag anyway.
That is what is so transparent about this: they know they are being voted out of power so they have to act now, against the wishes of the American public.

The Biden camp should hammer that message: Trump and the GOP are trying to act before you can kick them out. They don't care what you want.
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Old 16th October 2020, 09:20 AM   #2843
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
he did not nominate a new Judge for the seat that opened up 27 days before an election.

But arguably, the reason was not that he thought he shouldn't so close to an election, but rather that he didn't have the time and/or thought that he had the election in the bag anyway.
It was simply impossible to confirm a nominee. Congress wasn't in session and probably couldn't arrive in time to confirm a nominee.
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Old 17th October 2020, 11:40 PM   #2844
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
It was simply impossible to confirm a nominee. Congress wasn't in session and probably couldn't arrive in time to confirm a nominee.
It wasn't impossible. He could have called a special session.
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Old 18th October 2020, 07:04 AM   #2845
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Trump Tweets

Hunter Biden’s laptop is a disaster for the entire Biden family, but especially for his father, Joe. It is now a proven fact, and cannot be denied, that all of that info is the REAL DEAL. That makes it impossible for “50%, or 10%” Joe, to ever assume the office of the President!
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Old 18th October 2020, 08:04 AM   #2846
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The series of Trump tweets really should all be moved to the thread about his mental condition.

It will be interesting, from a psychological point of view, to see what he does once he's out, and what the worst of his followers do. I have little doubt that he'll continue the "rallies", probably at first whining & ranting about having been kicked out but then later trying to act like it never happened, as if he were still there. And of course the media will keep covering that more than it covers what the actual government is doing. But then what else from there? Audiences becoming anarchist rabbles going around committing random attacks & vandalism like they pretended the left was doing not long ago? Slowly dwindling audience size as the extremists start realizing they're in the same position as Germany post-Hitler and need to figure out how to pretend there was no connection between them and him if they're ever to be taken seriously by anybody again? Rallies located at, or marching to, government buildings to besiege so they can feel more like they're accomplishing something instead of just commiserating over the fact that they didn't? The cult finds a new leader to transfer to? And what about Trump himself? He's falling apart in a way that looks like a cult leader heading toward the cult's mass suicide, but nothing about the doctrine that he and his cult have been spouting seems to indicate that that's where this is going, at least not for most of them even if he does it himself. But I wouldn't be surprised by a few public protest/rally/march events by his cultists with a bunch of Kim-Jung-Il-like public wailing about the country's horrible loss and demands for the greatest memorial ever.
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Old 18th October 2020, 09:10 AM   #2847
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It wasn't impossible. He could have called a special session.
You're taking into account travel times of that era and the lack of broadcast media?

They had to be in their states to campaign.

Also worth noting Congress reconvened on the 5th of December and his nomination came on the 6th.
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Old 18th October 2020, 10:25 AM   #2848
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

FDRís own party told him you cannot PACK the United States Supreme Court, it would permanently destroy the Court. @judgejeanine @tedcruz
But now the Radical Left Democrats are pushing Biden to do this. He has zero chance against them!
This of course not what FDR's party told him. An act of Congress expanded the court in 1867 and an Act of Congress could do it again.
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:04 AM   #2849
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It wasn't impossible. He could have called a special session.
How long would it take the Senators to get the message? How long would it take for them to make arrangements for a trip back to Washington DC? How long would it take for a sufficient number of Republicans to get back to Washington DC? Just Asking Questions.
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:09 AM   #2850
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
How long would it take the Senators to get the message? How long would it take for them to make arrangements for a trip back to Washington DC? How long would it take for a sufficient number of Republicans to get back to Washington DC? Just Asking Questions.
In the age of telegraph and railroads ?

Minutes to get the message.

A day or two to travel.
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Old 18th October 2020, 11:24 AM   #2851
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In the age of telegraph and railroads ?



Minutes to get the message.



A day or two to travel.
Sure, minutes.

Assuming the recipient is snoozing in the chair in the telegraph office at the time the message is transmitted.

Otherwise you have to wait for them to make their rounds for the day.

If you're off campaigning 3 counties over, it'll be waiting when you get back (which could be weeks of continuous campaigning down the home stretch).

Days to travel? Yeah you have no conception of life at the time.

Days to prepare and make ready for that kind of trip.

Cure trail meats, pack in salt, get currency from the bank, inspect the animals to assure they are healthy enough to bear you, take it generally easy a few days to prepare yourself, contact neighbors to look after wife & kids, etc.

Because there aren't whistle stops in every cow pasture. Even at a major town, they may only see a couple of passenger trains a week.

Winter travel could have you immobilized for days.

Just let this sad claim die like it deserves.

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Old 18th October 2020, 12:37 PM   #2852
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In the age of telegraph and railroads ?

Minutes to get the message.

A day or two to travel.
Very optimistic. Amusingly, the questions I presented are just what occurred to me when Harris raised the issue but I guess I'm a retard.

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Old 18th October 2020, 12:45 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Sure, minutes.

Assuming the recipient is snoozing in the chair in the telegraph office at the time the message is transmitted.

Otherwise you have to wait for them to make their rounds for the day.

If you're off campaigning 3 counties over, it'll be waiting when you get back (which could be weeks of continuous campaigning down the home stretch).

Days to travel? Yeah you have no conception of life at the time.

Days to prepare and make ready for that kind of trip.

Cure trail meats, pack in salt, get currency from the bank, inspect the animals to assure they are healthy enough to bear you, take it generally easy a few days to prepare yourself, contact neighbors to look after wife & kids, etc.

Because there aren't whistle stops in every cow pasture. Even at a major town, they may only see a couple of passenger trains a week.

Winter travel could have you immobilized for days.

Just let this sad claim die like it deserves.
I think the reality is somewhere in between your statement and his. I doubt that many senators heading out for Washington D. C. even on an unplanned trip, would start by curing trail meats.


On the other hand, it would be sufficiently inconvenient that by the time they got there in a week or so, they would be mighty upset about it.
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Old 18th October 2020, 01:02 PM   #2854
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Sure, minutes.

Assuming the recipient is snoozing in the chair in the telegraph office at the time the message is transmitted.

Otherwise you have to wait for them to make their rounds for the day.

If you're off campaigning 3 counties over, it'll be waiting when you get back (which could be weeks of continuous campaigning down the home stretch).

Days to travel? Yeah you have no conception of life at the time.

Days to prepare and make ready for that kind of trip.

Cure trail meats, pack in salt, get currency from the bank, inspect the animals to assure they are healthy enough to bear you, take it generally easy a few days to prepare yourself, contact neighbors to look after wife & kids, etc.

Because there aren't whistle stops in every cow pasture. Even at a major town, they may only see a couple of passenger trains a week.

Winter travel could have you immobilized for days.

Just let this sad claim die like it deserves.
These are senators, important men, not some anonymous backwoodsman. This is also the 1860s not the 1760s.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:46 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think the reality is somewhere in between your statement and his. I doubt that many senators heading out for Washington D. C. even on an unplanned trip, would start by curing trail meats.





On the other hand, it would be sufficiently inconvenient that by the time they got there in a week or so, they would be mighty upset about it.
Agreed, some stretching (okay you can stop by the general store to buy already cured trail meat). Point being it isnít a few hours packing and a 30 minute cab ride to the airport.

Also correct that the political calculus was bad.

I'll also correct myself. Senators didn't campaign to be elected at the time. Though that throws some of the waiting for election results claim into even more confusion. So its a mess.

My conclusion: maybe we shouldn't try to make some kind of precedent out of it.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:47 PM   #2856
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
These are senators, important men, not some anonymous backwoodsman. This is also the 1860s not the 1760s.
Okay, but that still doesn't mean they can receive telegraph messages minutes later and cross half a continent in days.

Moving on.
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:08 PM   #2857
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New York Rate of travel map for 1857



https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploa...10/Travel2.png
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:45 PM   #2858
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Okay, but that still doesn't mean they can receive telegraph messages minutes later and cross half a continent in days.

Moving on.
If Lincoln called for the senate to convene, it would have been big news. That would have gone out on the telegraphs to all the newspapers. People would have been rushing to inform any senators not in Washing DC. The message would have got out within a day, and probably much sooner.

Travel time from most states would have been about 3 days. For California and Oregon would have been about a month. The first transcontinental railroad would not be completed for another 5 years. But no senators running for reelection in those states (Nevada was just becoming a state and would not elect senators until a few months later.)

There were only 8-10 senators running for re-election (we don't know exactly what happened in a couple cases). This was during the civil war. The seceded states did not have senators in the U.S. Senate.

This was before the 17th amendment. Senators were elected by state legislatures. While some may have been campaigning for their party in general, most senators were probably still in Washington.

All states with senators up for reelection were within about 3 days travel. The exception was Kansas which would have been a week or more, but Senator Jim Lane may not have returned to Washington anyway since he was fighting the civil war and preparing for the Battle of Westport.

Nearly the full senate probably could have been assembled within 5 days. A quorum probably could have been assembled in a day or two.
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Old 19th October 2020, 04:30 AM   #2859
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Polling 2016 and now
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-at-her-peak/

Not mentioned in the article is Jill Stein. Hillary lost the rust belt states by the amount of votes given to Jill Stein.
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Old 19th October 2020, 04:40 AM   #2860
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Hunter Bidenís laptop is a disaster for the entire Biden family, but especially for his father, Joe. It is now a proven fact, and cannot be denied, that all of that info is the REAL DEAL. That makes it impossible for ď50%, or 10%Ē Joe, to ever assume the office of the President!
Bolding mine.... Have I missed something or is Trump just talking out of his arse as usual?
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Old 19th October 2020, 04:49 AM   #2861
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Polling 2016 and now
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-at-her-peak/

Not mentioned in the article is Jill Stein. Hillary lost the rust belt states by the amount of votes given to Jill Stein.
Should it have been?

Did the Greens perform unusually well in 2016? Is there any evidence that 3rd party voting was more of a factor in this election than it ever is? Pointing at the normal amount of people voting Green smacks of special pleading for people not willing to admit that HRC just ran a poor campaign and that people don't really like her that much as a politician.

The Libertarian party outperformed the Greens (3% vs 1%) and it seems likely that these right wing voters would have been more likely to vote Trump if 3rd party was not an option. The elimination of 3rd party likely would have only increased Trump's lead, not narrow it.
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Old 19th October 2020, 05:51 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
The series of Trump tweets really should all be moved to the thread about his mental condition.

It will be interesting, from a psychological point of view, to see what he does once he's out, and what the worst of his followers do. I have little doubt that he'll continue the "rallies", probably at first whining & ranting about having been kicked out but then later trying to act like it never happened, as if he were still there. And of course the media will keep covering that more than it covers what the actual government is doing. But then what else from there? Audiences becoming anarchist rabbles going around committing random attacks & vandalism like they pretended the left was doing not long ago? Slowly dwindling audience size as the extremists start realizing they're in the same position as Germany post-Hitler and need to figure out how to pretend there was no connection between them and him if they're ever to be taken seriously by anybody again? Rallies located at, or marching to, government buildings to besiege so they can feel more like they're accomplishing something instead of just commiserating over the fact that they didn't? The cult finds a new leader to transfer to? And what about Trump himself? He's falling apart in a way that looks like a cult leader heading toward the cult's mass suicide, but nothing about the doctrine that he and his cult have been spouting seems to indicate that that's where this is going, at least not for most of them even if he does it himself. But I wouldn't be surprised by a few public protest/rally/march events by his cultists with a bunch of Kim-Jung-Il-like public wailing about the country's horrible loss and demands for the greatest memorial ever.

When he loses, Trump will want to continue the rallies. He craves the applause. Remember, after taking office in 2017 he almost immediately set up a 2020 campaign so that he could start "campaigning" again. He had no interest in actually governing.

So I expect upon a loss, Trump will immediately set up a 2024 campaign regardless if he actually wants to run again or not. As a private citizen, to hold a rally he would have to pay for the venue, security, etc. Or he could charge an admittance fee, but that would reduce his already dwindling audience. So by setting up a campaign, he can solicit donations and continue with his shtick and not put up any money out of pocket.
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Old 19th October 2020, 05:53 AM   #2863
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Bolding mine.... Have I missed something or is Trump just talking out of his arse as usual?
I think we all know the answer to that one
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Old 19th October 2020, 05:57 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post



So I expect upon a loss, Trump will immediately set up a 2024 campaign regardless if he actually wants to run again or not. As a private citizen, to hold a rally he would have to pay for the venue, security, etc.
Don't politicians have to pay for that stuff anyways?

Wasn't there a story a few years back where cities were trying to sue stubby Mcbonespurs after his campaign failed to compensate the city for the extra policing that they needed to work his campaign rallies?



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Old 19th October 2020, 06:05 AM   #2865
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Don't politicians have to pay for that stuff anyways?

Wasn't there a story a few years back where cities were trying to sue stubby Mcbonespurs after his campaign failed to compensate the city for the extra policing that they needed to work his campaign rallies?
And know Jacksonville and the GOP have already started legal slap fighting over the pulled GOP Convention here.
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Old 19th October 2020, 07:22 AM   #2866
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Should it have been?

Did the Greens perform unusually well in 2016? Is there any evidence that 3rd party voting was more of a factor in this election than it ever is? Pointing at the normal amount of people voting Green smacks of special pleading for people not willing to admit that HRC just ran a poor campaign and that people don't really like her that much as a politician.

The Libertarian party outperformed the Greens (3% vs 1%) and it seems likely that these right wing voters would have been more likely to vote Trump if 3rd party was not an option. The elimination of 3rd party likely would have only increased Trump's lead, not narrow it.
It was mostly the "we don't like Hillary, she has too much baggage" factor. Trump was repulsive, so vote for Stein who they barely knew.
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Old 19th October 2020, 07:25 AM   #2867
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
When he loses, Trump will want to continue the rallies. He craves the applause. Remember, after taking office in 2017 he almost immediately set up a 2020 campaign so that he could start "campaigning" again. He had no interest in actually governing.

So I expect upon a loss, Trump will immediately set up a 2024 campaign regardless if he actually wants to run again or not. As a private citizen, to hold a rally he would have to pay for the venue, security, etc. Or he could charge an admittance fee, but that would reduce his already dwindling audience. So by setting up a campaign, he can solicit donations and continue with his shtick and not put up any money out of pocket.
Maybe he can just take a piece of The Wall and set up shop there. Buy a nearby hotel. The Trump stand up will be free if you stay at his hotel. His fans will need to drive or fly there.
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:15 AM   #2868
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:25 AM   #2869
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NYP is real journalism?


Someone is even dumber than I thought.




Twitter made it clear that it blocked the link because the "real journalist" at the NYP left in their material a personal email and phone number - in clear violation of Twitter policy.
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Old 19th October 2020, 01:23 PM   #2870
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
So I expect upon a loss, Trump will immediately set up a 2024 campaign regardless if he actually wants to run again or not.
Even if he wins he will immediately start campaigning for a third term. I wonder if he can legally raise money for that given that he wonít be eligible to serve as the law stands now.
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:11 PM   #2871
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Could do with 20 fewer words.

Geezus ******* what a lame cartoon.
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:52 PM   #2872
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Even if he wins he will immediately start campaigning for a third term. I wonder if he can legally raise money for that given that he wonít be eligible to serve as the law stands now.
I don't think so. Trump's world will quickly start to crumble if he loses. His financial information will no longer be protected by the DOJ and the courts. Fear of Trump will quickly be a thing of the past. We're within a day or two before the Supreme Court rules on whether they accept Trump's last bid to prevent the Manhattan DA enforcing their subpoena for his financials. They already ruled on this saying the President cannot prevent a subpoena any more than the average citizen. Even the conservatives on the court ruled against him. Now two lower courts ruled that his attorneys argument that the subpoenas were too broad are nonsense. There is absolutely no reason the court to accept his request to review this because there is no constitutional issue to be resolved. And no disagreement between lower courts.

If Trump loses, he will no longer have that Presidential shield. Everything Trump has fought to prevent from becoming public will become public. If you think Trump was corrupt before wait until he is a private citizen.
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:54 PM   #2873
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Could do with 20 fewer words.

Geezus ******* what a lame cartoon.
Ben Garrison thinks the NYPost is real journalism?
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Old 19th October 2020, 06:57 PM   #2874
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That looks like one of the fake parody political cartoons the Onion does.
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Old 19th October 2020, 10:05 PM   #2875
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That looks like one of the fake parody political cartoons the Onion does.
He is the Jack Chick of political cartoonists.
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:40 AM   #2876
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Trump is Biden's best case. Trump says scientists are idiots and that Covid-19 shouldn't be a story in the media. He says out loud that maybe corporations should bribe him for favors.

I'm glad the Biden campaign is letting Trump make the case against Trump.
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:49 AM   #2877
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Trump may be falling into the trap some Democrats are, thinking that 2020 is a repeat of 2016. He's doing all the things that worked last time, e-mail scandal, lock them up chants, massive rallies. The e-mail nonsense fell flat, the only people locked up appear to be Trump supporters, and the rallies are hurting him with COVID-19 minded swing voters. He might have had a chance if he recognized that the electorate was conducting an experiment in 2016 and in 2020, they are deciding how that experiment turned out.

ETA: That and he doesn't understand that Biden isn't his opponent, the virus is.
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Old 20th October 2020, 06:57 AM   #2878
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Trump may be falling into the trap some Democrats are, thinking that 2020 is a repeat of 2016. He's doing all the things that worked last time, e-mail scandal, lock them up chants, massive rallies. The e-mail nonsense fell flat, the only people locked up appear to be Trump supporters, and the rallies are hurting him with COVID-19 minded swing voters. He might have had a chance if he recognized that the electorate was conducting an experiment in 2016 and in 2020, they are deciding how that experiment turned out.

ETA: That and he doesn't understand that Biden isn't his opponent, the virus is.
Two things that are different:

1) Biden isn't Hilary. It isn't fair, but Hilary had tons of baggage after decades of right wing propaganda. She also has as much charisma as a piece of dry toast. She never should have been the candidate. Nobody hates Biden the way they hated Hilary.

2) President Trump is worse than candidate Trump. He's been worse than even most people could imagine in 2016, in no small part thanks to his disastrous covid-19 management.

The covid thing is 100% unforced error. Hell, plenty of politicians made mistakes early on, corrected course, and were largely forgiven and lauded by the public. Gov. Cuomo comes to mind. But Trump's doubling down on covid denialism is nobody's fault but his own.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:10 AM   #2879
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The covid thing is 100% unforced error. Hell, plenty of politicians made mistakes early on, corrected course, and were largely forgiven and lauded by the public. Gov. Cuomo comes to mind. But Trump's doubling down on covid denialism is nobody's fault but his own.
Trump's hard to "moneyball" but I do think (think) that the fact that Trump has shown that he is literally incapable of any introspective change is hurting him.

Good Presidents, horrible Presidents, effective Presidents, ineffective Presidents, they all showed some sense of self reflection. They changed something about how they governed during their administrations.

Love them or hate them the Bush, Reagan, Clinton, Obama that left office was not the same Bush, Reagan, Clinton, or Obama that took office. The weight of the office had some effect on them, good or bad.

Trump is still Trump. His reaction to everything is "More Trump." Holding the office of President hasn't changed him in the least and... that's weird. Nobody should hold a position that important and come out if it the exact same person.
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Old 20th October 2020, 07:12 AM   #2880
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The covid thing is 100% unforced error.
I agree. If Trump listened to the scientists and experts, the USA casualties would have been low. Our per-capita deaths would be one of the lowest in the world, if not the lowest. Trump would easily be leading in all polls and win re-election.
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