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Old 27th September 2020, 02:34 PM   #1
kookbreaker
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Trump's tax returns

NY Times says they have obtained Trumps tax returns. No huge surprise but he’s been losing money a whole lot. Not enough details in the returns to see any Russia connections however.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ump-taxes.html
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Old 27th September 2020, 02:44 PM   #2
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Trump's tax returns

The New York Times has got hold of 2 decades of Trump's tax returns, up to 2017
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Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 27th September 2020 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 27th September 2020, 02:46 PM   #3
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
NY Times says they have obtained Trumps tax returns. No huge surprise but he’s been losing money a whole lot. Not enough details in the returns to see any Russia connections however.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ump-taxes.html
There's a lot more than just Trump losing money.

This is a wonderful Oct surprise.

Quote:
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.
And that looming debt means
Quote:
... that he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president.
Quote:
This article offers an overview of The Times’s findings; additional articles will be published in the coming weeks.
Between that and Woodward's tapes, maybe the news cycle won't be dominated by Trump after all.


I wonder if Forbes will reassess the conclusion Trump is a billionaire.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 27th September 2020 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 27th September 2020, 02:55 PM   #4
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NY Times gets a bunch of Trump tax records.
Quote:
The New York Times has obtained tax-return data for President Trump and his companies that covers more than two decades. Mr. Trump has long refused to release this information, making him the first president in decades to hide basic details about his finances. His refusal has made his tax returns among the most sought-after documents in recent memory.

Among the key findings of The Times’s investigation:

Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.

He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service.

Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes.

The financial pressure on him is increasing as hundreds of millions of dollars in loans he personally guaranteed are soon coming due.

Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television.

Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill.

As president, he has received more money from foreign sources and U.S. interest groups than previously known. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/u...takeaways.html

ETA: I missed SG's post.
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Old 27th September 2020, 02:57 PM   #5
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There's a goldmine of corruption in those tax records!

Quote:
His properties have become bazaars for collecting money directly from lobbyists, foreign officials and others seeking face time, access or favor; the records for the first time put precise dollar figures on those transactions.
And then there are the licensing deals he claimed he would not make when he was in office. Yet:
Quote:
in his first two years in the White House, his revenue from abroad totaled $73 million. And while much of that money was from his golf properties in Scotland and Ireland, some came from licensing deals in countries with authoritarian-leaning leaders or thorny geopolitics — for example, $3 million from the Philippines, $2.3 million from India and $1 million from Turkey.
No wonder he loves authoritarian dictators. Puts a new light on Trump trying to get Kim to build Trump beach resorts in N Korea.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 27th September 2020 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 27th September 2020, 02:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
And here I had decided not to get anymore online subscriptions. I think I will for this. I sense Mary Trump's hand in all this.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post

ETA: I missed SG's post.
No worries, there is plenty of scandal to go around.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Hang on, lemme make some popcorn .
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:18 PM   #9
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750 bucks? Jesus Christ some upper middle class people pay that to have their taxes done!
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:28 PM   #10
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Prediction: it will come as little surprise to most, and the faithful will care not a whit.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:28 PM   #11
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Trump must be crapping bricks just about now. The timing couldn't be better. Expect a barrage of "Failing New York Times" tweets and a host of FOX pundits having apoplectic fits while foaming at the mouth. Good times. Good times.

No wonder Trump fought so hard to hide his tax returns. They reveal him to be what we always knew him to be: a fake, charlatan, hoax, liar, sham, fraud, huckster, imposter...
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:30 PM   #12
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Just a pity so many of the trumpkins won't read this. All they'll hear, safe in their bubble, is "fake news got tax retunrs ,found nothing about russia or stomry daniels!11" ad infinitum.

More on-topic, I'm about halfway through the article and it's a wonderful read so far.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:40 PM   #13
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I wonder how many people who voted for Trump believing he was a successful businessman who would know how to run the US economy successfully will feel cheated? He has claimed he was responsible for our great economy (when we know he inherited a vibrant and growing one) and it's gone to hell in a handbasket. Will any of them finally ask themselves "He isn't the mogul he told us he was? He lied to us about that." Or will they, again, just believe what he tells them and handwave away the NYT story as 'fake news' and believe what Dear Leader tells them as the good little cultists they are? Sadly, I fear the vast majority of them will keep their MAGA hats on, wave their flags, attend their rallies, swig another Bud Lite, smoke another cigarette, and vote for Dear Leader.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Prediction: it will come as little surprise to most, and the faithful will care not a whit.
The New York and eventually federal prosecutors might. What I bet it shows is that Trump undervalued properties for tax purposes and overvalued them securing loans. So he likely committed bank and tax fraud.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:43 PM   #15
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It's good to have confirmation and details about just how badly he's doing .

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I wonder how many people who voted for Trump believing he was a successful businessman who would know how to run the US economy successfully will feel cheated? He has claimed he was responsible for our great economy (when we know he inherited a vibrant and growing one) and it's gone to hell in a handbasket. Will any of them finally ask themselves "He isn't the mogul he told us he was? He lied to us about that." Or will they, again, just believe what he tells them and handwave away the NYT story as 'fake news' and believe what Dear Leader tells them as the good little cultists they are? Sadly, I fear the vast majority of them will keep their MAGA hats on, wave their flags, attend their rallies, swig another Bud Lite, smoke another cigarette, and vote for Dear Leader.
I think they'll be more like "okay, this is bad, but he's still a good president because x", with or without "oh, and what about...". Confirmation bias and sunk cost fallacy will kick in and some Trump-friendly news in their favourite echo chambers will help with the cognitive dissonance.

Then again, I suppose it will at least affect some people, and you never know how many of those you really need to tip a state or even a whole election.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:44 PM   #16
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Oh of course it won't make a difference. His cult members will wait until their leader decides which excuse/distraction to use and/or there's some pettifogging meaningless nitpick to go on about.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:48 PM   #17
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Three takeaways:

1) Trump pays zero in federal income taxes because he's smart.
2) No Russian collusion.
3) The NYT is a third-rate, dying paper. Who edited this story? Exact quote:

Quote:
His share of the profits through the end of 2018 totaled $176.5 million , with depreciation factored in.
Sad!
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:55 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump must be crapping bricks just about now. The timing couldn't be better. Expect a barrage of "Failing New York Times" tweets and a host of FOX pundits having apoplectic fits while foaming at the mouth. Good times. Good times.

No wonder Trump fought so hard to hide his tax returns. They reveal him to be what we always knew him to be: a fake, charlatan, hoax, liar, sham, fraud, huckster, imposter...
You left off corrupt.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:55 PM   #19
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Trump just fell back on his "Fake news" excuse. He's also complaining that the IRS treats him "very, very badly" and that he'll be happy to share his taxes as soon as they're no longer "under audit". Seems to me we've heard that before.
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Old 27th September 2020, 03:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You left off corrupt.
I only have so much time.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:07 PM   #21
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$70,000 for hair styling
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
$70,000 for hair styling
Yeah when I read that I had to have a drink and a lie down.

And it's worse that's never what he spends on it, that's what he claimed as a tax deduction.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
$70,000 for hair styling
Proves money can't buy everything.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:25 PM   #24
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I took a look over at FOX News to see what the were talking about. Not a word about the NYT article. They were interviewing that idiot Sen. Kennedy about Amy Coney Barrett. He was hoping that the Dems weren't going to make it illegal to believe in God.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:29 PM   #25
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There were several years where Trump was losing more money than anyone in America.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:34 PM   #26
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So many people hand waving this away before it has had time to be digested.

He's getting millions from people wishing to garner favor from Trump.

Quote:
And within the next four years, more than $300 million in loans — obligations for which he is personally responsible — will come due.
The IRS wants $100 million from him if he can't make it go away. And if he wins reelection he will do just that, corruptly make it go away, or at least try.

He's on the take:
Quote:
for example, $3 million from the Philippines, $2.3 million from India and $1 million from Turkey.


All kinds of foreign money is flowing into his real estate. A story came out last week:
Vanity Fair: ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST IN AMERICAN HISTORY”: HOW EVERYONE FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS TO FEDERAL CONTRACTORS IS QUIETLY LINING TRUMP’S POCKETS (caps are theirs)
Quote:
It sure seems like the Qatari government is using a dummy office to pay the president. Countless other foreign and American companies are also handing Trump money—sometimes without even knowing it—creating the most tangled web of ethical pitfalls the White House has ever seen.

He's taken it a step higher than money laundering through his real estate holdings.
Quote:
That means that Trump, who holds his commercial real estate portfolio through a web of entities, does not have to disclose who his tenants are. It’s a massive loophole in federal disclosure laws, one that allows the president to accept money from entities all over the world without ever having to tell federal ethics officials who is paying him.
Corruption:
Quote:
It’s an ethical nightmare. Four foreign government entities—from China, Qatar, India, and the United Arab Emirates—have rented space in Trump’s buildings while he’s served as president. At least 35 tenants lobbied the federal government on policy issues. Twenty of those pitched the White House or the president personally. Thirty or more tenants collected over $8 billion in federal government contracts from 2018 to 2019 alone. At least 17 faced federal investigations on matters including fraud, money laundering, and corruption. Add it all up and Trump’s tenant relationships create one of the most significant potential conflicts of interest in American history.
Then there is Trump's lie he's given back the money foreign governments paid him to the US Treasury.
Quote:
That appears to be enough money to disprove the Trumps’ claim that they are handing over all their profits from foreign governments to the U.S. Treasury. In 2017 and 2018, the Trump Organization donated a reported $343,000 in profits from foreign governments. Over those same two years, however, the Trump Organization collected ...[after expenses] ... you still end up with $1.2 million. In other words, more than three times as much as the Trump Organization’s donations to the Treasury. And that $1.2 million figure is before accounting for any of the foreign money flowing through Trump hotels in D.C. and elsewhere.
It goes on and on.

Now we need a similar corruption disclosure about McConnell.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:36 PM   #27
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Also from reading that article I'd say the New York Times needs to make space for another Pulitzer on its mantel.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:36 PM   #28
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What I'm puzzled about is why this issue will have no major negative impact on Trump's campaign, and it may well be a positive ("look at everyone piling on our Donnie"). If this happened to any other leader of a democratic country, he or she would be out the door before the day ended.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:39 PM   #29
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Oh, this news makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside! Hopefully the simple meme that comes from all of it is "Trump only paid $750 in taxes the last two reported years". Most average people have to pay much more than that.

I was amused at one of the pictures that accompanied the article. It would only take a little simple Photoshopping to change that pedestal into an image that denotes how he should be feeling right about now.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg trump-bust-narrow.jpg (49.3 KB, 19 views)
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:39 PM   #30
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So he got over 400 million for the Apprentice and was pumping that into his failing properties. He also got income from Turkey in licensing deals while in office. Two groups so far paid large fees to Trump properties who were at the time, lobbying the government.

The Trump organization has said the facts are inaccurate so we can assume the details are correct.

It's funny that if Trump had taken the 400 or so million dollars his dad gave him and went to an Edward Jones broker in any strip mall in America, he'd be twice as rich as he is now.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:43 PM   #31
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There is now a separate thread for the Trump Tax Returns discussion.
Which I think is necessary.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What I'm puzzled about is why this issue will have no major negative impact on Trump's campaign, and it may well be a positive ("look at everyone piling on our Donnie"). If this happened to any other leader of a democratic country, he or she would be out the door before the day ended.
People are convinced because no one cared if Trump murdered someone on 5th Ave they will never care about anything.

I don't agree. There is some self-fulfilling prophesy going on. But this Oct surprise dribbled out by the Times, along with more Woodward tapes coming out might have some impact.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:51 PM   #33
Stacyhs
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Apparently, there is even more to come from the NYT.

I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
I'm about to lose control and I think I like it
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
People are convinced because no one cared if Trump murdered someone on 5th Ave they will never care about anything.
Because if Trump had spent his entire term, all 4 years of it, 40 hours a week, shooting someone on 5th Ave every 2 minutes and 30 seconds non-stop... he still wouldn't have killed as many Americas as have died of COVID.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:52 PM   #35
lionking
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
People are convinced because no one cared if Trump murdered someone on 5th Ave they will never care about anything.

I don't agree. There is some self-fulfilling prophesy going on. But this Oct surprise dribbled out by the Times, along with more Woodward tapes coming out might have some impact.
I hope so, but the gap is narrowing and I now think Trump will win regardless of these revelations.
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Apparently, there is even more to come from the NYT.
"Please be the pee tape, please be the pee tape, please be the pee tape..."
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:57 PM   #37
shemp
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
$70,000 for hair styling
Didn't do him a damn bit of good.
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"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
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Old 27th September 2020, 04:58 PM   #38
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
People are convinced because no one cared if Trump murdered someone on 5th Ave they will never care about anything.

I don't agree. There is some self-fulfilling prophesy going on. But this Oct surprise dribbled out by the Times, along with more Woodward tapes coming out might have some impact.
Murdering people is hypothetical. But taxes...almost everybody else in America pays taxes, and a very large percentage of his own voting base pays more than $750 a year. Taxes are very, very real things to a lot of people. And 750 is a solid, real number. A very low number compared to what most of us pay. This is something people can get angry about.

And amusedly contemptuous. I don't know what's sillier: that he paid such a ridiculously low amount, or that with all that financial skullduggery and cheating he couldn't get it down to zero.
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Old 27th September 2020, 05:02 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Apparently, there is even more to come from the NYT.
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Old 27th September 2020, 05:06 PM   #40
shemp
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Apparently, there is even more to come from the NYT.

I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
I'm about to lose control and I think I like it
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it
I would love to see one of the last bastions of good journalism destroy him.

$750? I pay more than ten times that much every year. I guess I'm just a sucker and a loser.
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If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
"...just as a magnet attracts iron filings, Trump shemp attracts, and is attracted to, louts." - George Will
"[shemp is] a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality." - Shakespeare
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