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Old 27th September 2020, 08:44 PM   #81
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I feel like there could be a lesson from history with Al Capone to be applied here.
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Old 27th September 2020, 08:45 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Orange Jumpsuit Man Bad!
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Old 27th September 2020, 09:23 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump just fell back on his "Fake news" excuse. He's also complaining that the IRS treats him "very, very badly" and that he'll be happy to share his taxes as soon as they're no longer "under audit". Seems to me we've heard that before.
Next excuse: "Eric ate my tax returns."
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Old 27th September 2020, 09:25 PM   #84
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Wait. $750?

That means Trump pays more for sex than he pays in taxes.
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Old 27th September 2020, 09:33 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Wait. $750?

That means Trump pays more for sex than he pays in taxes.
He pays more on his hair than in taxes. Very meme-able, I think.
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Old 27th September 2020, 09:39 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Why do I feel that this will not cause the slightest ripple in his core support base (40%)?


Norm
You're right. At this point, an undecided voter is a 2016 Trump voter who is deciding if to vote at all. It keeps that voter home. That might as well be a vote for Joe Biden. This also energizes Biden's base which Biden needs to get out to the polls.
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Old 27th September 2020, 09:52 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He's paid more to pornstars in the past 10 years than he's paid in taxes.
Ponder that for a min.

Also $70,000 on hairdressing?
NBC says Trump used their hair stylist on the show in 3...2...1.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:12 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
What I bet it shows is that Trump undervalued properties for tax purposes and overvalued them securing loans. So he likely committed bank and tax fraud.
I think you're probably right. I also think he may have done a round-robin of money on profits, using consultant fees and balance-sheet loan accounts to non directly controlled entities with carried forward losses, switching over different tax years.

Tax returns are good but the supporting financial statements and detailed general ledgers is what a forensic accountant needs to see in a tax audit.

As for Russian money or capital benefits, a non-Trump controlled US discretionary trust, that invests overseas, can possibly distribute trust profit re-characterised as non foreign......soooo, again, you need to see the detailed financial statements and general ledgers.

Let's wait and see what we get to see.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:17 PM   #89
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It's clear from the documents that Trump runs is businesses at a constant loss and siphons the profits to somewhere else.
Just like he's doing to the US.

No wonder the IRS takeover was more important than anything else to Trump after the inauguration.

I hope Biden will make a commitment to taking from Trump every tax dollar he owes.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:18 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I gather that many, if not most, people in the US resent paying taxes (whereas in many other countries it's considered a civic duty), so the leader paying little tax may not be an issue for a lot of voters.
Yeah, people expect those roads to pave themselves, soldiers, police, firefighters, etc to work for free, those ships, fighter, bombers, tanks, etc to magically appear, schools to pay for themselves. Whoever thought we might have to pay for those ourselves?
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:27 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What I'm puzzled about is why this issue will have no major negative impact on Trump's campaign, and it may well be a positive ("look at everyone piling on our Donnie"). If this happened to any other leader of a democratic country, he or she would be out the door before the day ended.
If you think about Trump supporters as being the political equivalent of Fundamentalist Christians, that will help you to understand... they are "The Faithful" - nothing, absolutely nothing you can say will deter them from their blind faith in their belief that he is "The Chosen One". All those who speak against Dear Leader are the Spawn of Satan i.e. Liberals; Republicans who speak against him carry the shame of Judas in the eyes of "The Faithful".

Trump supporters believe that Dear Leader can do no wrong.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:28 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yeah, people expect those roads to pave themselves, soldiers, police, firefighters, etc to work for free, those ships, fighter, bombers, tanks, etc to magically appear, schools to pay for themselves. Whoever thought we might have to pay for those ourselves?
I don't know whether you are misreading me. I don't mind paying income tax. One year I paid $30k. Research has shown that not only do Australian not object to paying tax, but a majority would be happy to pay more in exchange for increased services.

My post related to a certain number of US taxpayers, the majority I believe.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:28 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I think you have too much faith in the average Trump supporter. Think of the pro-gun people who deny he grabbed any guns with the bump stock ban by making them into 500,000 contraband machine guns that the public was forced to turn in, destroy or (in most cases I think) hide.

I think more Trump supporters would be more disappointed to find out that he doesn't actually sexually assault women as a perk of wealth than in anything about his taxes.

Ranb
As I said in the latter part of my post:

Quote:
Or will they, again, just believe what he tells them and handwave away the NYT story as 'fake news' and believe what Dear Leader tells them as the good little cultists they are? Sadly, I fear the vast majority of them will keep their MAGA hats on, wave their flags, attend their rallies, swig another Bud Lite, smoke another cigarette, and vote for Dear Leader.
I have no faith in the average Trump supporter because I think the average Trump supporter has the intelligence of a lobotomized gold fish.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Next excuse: "Eric ate my tax returns."
Oh, I don't know about that one so much, but if push comes to shove, and the pressure really comes on, I fully expect Trump to throw members of his own family under the bus if he thinks doing so might save him. Its what malignant narcissists do!
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:39 PM   #95
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Someone on CNN said Biden should hand Trump a check for $750 at the debate and say he heard he needed a loan.
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Old 27th September 2020, 10:41 PM   #96
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Someone on CNN said Biden should hand Trump a check for $750 at the debate and say he heard he needed a loan.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:13 PM   #97
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There seems much crowing that Trump's corporate debts prove his incompetence as a businessman, and that might be true, but it does rest on the assumption that he has been telling the IRS the truth when he declared his companies to be loss-making.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:14 PM   #98
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Perhaps all Biden has to say in the debates now is "Donald, show us your REAL tax returns. We'll wait..."
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:17 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
There seems much crowing that Trump's corporate debts prove his incompetence as a businessman, and that might be true, but it does rest on the assumption that he has been telling the IRS the truth when he declared his companies to be loss-making.
Looks like some are doing fine, but because of outrageous "consulting fees" to him and his kids, they make no profit.
So the real question is his personal tax returns as well as those of all the Trump kids.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:25 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by BillC View Post
There seems much crowing that Trump's corporate debts prove his incompetence as a businessman, and that might be true, but it does rest on the assumption that he has been telling the IRS the truth when he declared his companies to be loss-making.
Then he has the choice of either appearing as what he fears most: a business failure or admitting to committing tax fraud for decades. A true Sophie's Choice for Donnie.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:29 PM   #101
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He will try to blather his way out of it, or change the subject, or try to point out an increasingly distant slightly shiny object that looks something like Hillary or Obama.

Biden simply needs to continue to ask him to explain. And when Donny won't, lather, rinse and repeat.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:43 PM   #102
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As has been pointed out, the story will play out thusly:
  1. It's #FakeNews
  2. The reports are accurate but only suckers pay federal taxes
  3. It's not illegal
  4. OK, it's illegal but it's not a "real" crime
  5. What about Hunter Biden ?
  6. Emails, Benghazi etc, etc
  7. Next crisis

It won't affect President Trump's chances of reelection and it will provide yet another incentive for him to do anything to win - so he can stop them coming after him.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:54 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I wonder how much his financial troubles will affect his campaign, which is already rumoured to have run out of money. How much money can he throw at it?
I doubt that is the direction of cash flows between Trump and his campaign.
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Old 27th September 2020, 11:56 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....

It won't affect President Trump's chances of reelection and it will provide yet another incentive for him to do anything to win - so he can stop them coming after him.
It will be interesting to see if it affects the polls in the next few weeks and if anything in the NYT report gives Biden any fuel or advantage for Tuesday's debate.
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:19 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's funny that if Trump had taken the 400 or so million dollars his dad gave him and went to an Edward Jones broker in any strip mall in America, he'd be twice as rich as he is now.
More than twice, probably. What's more, he'd be easily able to prove how rich he is. Then again, he couldn't buy $10 million worth of PepsiCo today and then claim it's worth $100 million as collateral next week.
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:21 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yeah, but then he's calling his own voters, most of whom pay more than $750 in taxes, stupid.
So what?

He's here to teach them. To become as clever and conning as he is.

It's all about spinning, not about the ancient concept of truth.
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:26 AM   #107
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Fake billionaire. Perhaps a slogan on that would do something? I bet he can't prove that he's even a millionaire.
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:33 AM   #108
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As for Trump not owing taxes if he's not making any money, he's the one that can't have it both ways. He can't claim to be a billionaire and somehow write off his entire income 10 years out of the last 15. And two years he paid any tax it was a pittance.

So how did he magically become a billionaire?

I suspect his assets are heavily mortgaged. But I also don't think that means he hasn't been cheating on his taxes for years.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:02 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
As for Trump not owing taxes if he's not making any money, he's the one that can't have it both ways. He can't claim to be a billionaire and somehow write off his entire income 10 years out of the last 15. And two years he paid any tax it was a pittance.

So how did he magically become a billionaire?

I suspect his assets are heavily mortgaged. But I also don't think that means he hasn't been cheating on his taxes for years.
I guess you can if you carry forward an *enormous* "loss".

I buy an asset for $billions and immediately write off most, if not all, of its value. I then use that "loss" to offset my profits in later years.

At some point in the future I may dispose of that asset - at which point in time there may be a significant capital gain. Then again, if I hang on to the asset for long enough I may get enough taper relief (if such a thing exists in the US tax code) so as not to have to pay any taxes.

Also, with enough companies in enough countries, there are opportunities for all kinds of tax shenanigans. My company in a tax "efficient" jurisdiction can charge my company in the US, or me, huge fees. My US company therefore makes a loss and my foreign company pays little or no taxes. AIUI a lot of movie companies use this kind of accounting to make sure that phenomenally successful films (like the Harry Potter franchise) somehow make a paper loss.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:09 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because if Trump had spent his entire term, all 4 years of it, 40 hours a week, shooting someone on 5th Ave every 2 minutes and 30 seconds non-stop... he still wouldn't have killed as many Americas as have died of COVID.
For clarity: this is a quote from George Takei's twitter: https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/stat...34265350336514
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:15 AM   #111
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Ivanka was paid as a consultant on projects that she was managing

Huge red flag, and very illegal, apparently. Also not something she can wriggle out of - as a member of the organisation, she is legally on the hook here.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:17 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He's paid more to pornstars in the past 10 years than he's paid in taxes.
Ponder that for a min.
I saw one report suggesting he paid Stormy Daniels 175x what he paid in taxes, although I haven't checked the maths.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:20 AM   #113
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I liked this Tweet:
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·
8h
Republicans are so quiet about his tax returns you can hear a poll drop.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:20 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I hope they are but there is no guarantee.

Remember, the NYT is a news source in competition with other newspapers, cable news, etc. It helps their bottom line to be "first" with a news story. It would be risky to sit on a story just because it might make a big impact, because someone else investigating the same story might beat you to it.
The article says that it's an overview, and that subsequent articles will be published. So presumably there aren't any extra bombshells, but deeper dives might highlight details that are significant (such as the Ivanka story above).
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:25 AM   #115
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So the NYT has given us the "eye opening revelation" (based on documents it hasn't disclosed) that Trump is no different to other 1 percenters. He has taken advantage of the complex tax laws to reduce his tax liability to practically nothing.

I'm shocked I tells you, SHOCKED!
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:33 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I liked this Tweet:
Jesse Lifson
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8h
Republicans are so quiet about his tax returns you can hear a poll drop.
Won't make a blind bit of difference to President Trump's standing in the polls.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:33 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So the NYT has given us the "eye opening revelation" (based on documents it hasn't disclosed) that Trump is no different to other 1 percenters. He has taken advantage of the complex tax laws to reduce his tax liability to practically nothing.:
Maybe not.

I am not denying that tax laws give rather generous loop holes to the wealthy. But trump isn't just taking advantage of tax laws, he is breaking those laws.



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Old 28th September 2020, 01:34 AM   #118
The Great Zaganza
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I think there is one immediate and very critical result that will come from the release of the tax returns:

no major law firm will represent him without cash up front.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:34 AM   #119
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So the NYT has given us the "eye opening revelation" (based on documents it hasn't disclosed) that Trump is no different to other 1 percenters. He has taken advantage of the complex tax laws to reduce his tax liability to practically nothing.

I'm shocked I tells you, SHOCKED!
And there it is. The "everyone does it" excuse. I'm shocked I tells you, SHOCKED!

The documents it hasn't disclosed? You mean Trump's tax returns?

Last edited by Stacyhs; 28th September 2020 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:38 AM   #120
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So the NYT has given us the "eye opening revelation" (based on documents it hasn't disclosed) that Trump is no different to other 1 percenters. He has taken advantage of the complex tax laws to reduce his tax liability to practically nothing.

I'm shocked I tells you, SHOCKED!
with what you've learned so far from the released tax returns:

would you lend Trump money?
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