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Old 28th September 2020, 01:55 PM   #321
Trebuchet
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
On the lawsuit ... a defamation suit would be a tough sell. It's a very, very high bar if you're dealing with a public figure.
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's certainly true. But Trump has long used lawsuits as a tool of intimidation. Even if a suit gets thrown out, the target has to spend time and money defending himself. If/when he wins he might be awarded compensation for his expenses, but that's never guaranteed. Meanwhile, during the months, maybe years, that the suit winds its way through the courts, Trump can say "That guy's lying and I'm suing him for it!" Sounds good to his base.
That's true in the case of little companies that Trump sues when they try to get paid what he owes them. He's not going to intimidate the New York Times. They are probably hoping he'll sue so all the documents come out in court. But he won't, even he knows better than that. There's little doubt he'll threaten to sue, but no suit will ever be filed.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:58 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
When Trump releases his tax returns,...oh, wait....I can just stop there, can't I?

There's a reason he's been fighting so hard not release them and we're beginning to see why. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Rick Santorum said in an interview that this doesn't show more than the two years of tax returns he already released.

You know, the couple pages sans any details, those tax records.

More to follow.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:02 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Rick Santorum said in an interview that this doesn't show more than the two years of tax returns he already released.

You know, the couple pages sans any details, those tax records.

More to follow.
Why the heck are people talking to Rick santorum these days?
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:03 PM   #324
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Eric Trump Tweeted

@EricTrump
When was the last time Biden donated his salary back to the federal government? Asking for a friend...
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:10 PM   #325
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Charlie Kirk (Chair of 'Trump Students') tweeted

@charliekirk11
Who leaked Trump’s tax returns to The New York Times?
26 U.S. Code § 7213 makes it illegal to disclose unauthorized information, including tax returns
If true—there should be felony charges leveled.
RT if DOJ should immediately investigate the Times and their sources!
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:14 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Most people don't have very complex taxes, and when they do overpay they tend to get it back as a refund. Trump does have very complex taxes, and he didn't get back his overpayment as a refund.
He used it as a carryover to apply to future taxes, because (get this) he expected his future taxes to be larger.

Which is why focusing on one or two years of his liability being really low is disingenuous.
....

Yes it is. And that's what you're doing. From the NYT:
Quote:
Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.
.....
The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ump-taxes.html
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:19 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Charlie Kirk (Chair of 'Trump Students') tweeted

@charliekirk11
Who leaked Trump’s tax returns to The New York Times?
26 U.S. Code § 7213 makes it illegal to disclose unauthorized information, including tax returns
If true—there should be felony charges leveled.
RT if DOJ should immediately investigate the Times and their sources!
Would those be the fake returns that were totally made up by the failing NYT?
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:22 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I guess you can if you carry forward an *enormous* "loss".

I buy an asset for $billions and immediately write off most, if not all, of its value. I then use that "loss" to offset my profits in later years.

At some point in the future I may dispose of that asset - at which point in time there may be a significant capital gain. Then again, if I hang on to the asset for long enough I may get enough taper relief (if such a thing exists in the US tax code) so as not to have to pay any taxes.

Also, with enough companies in enough countries, there are opportunities for all kinds of tax shenanigans. My company in a tax "efficient" jurisdiction can charge my company in the US, or me, huge fees. My US company therefore makes a loss and my foreign company pays little or no taxes. AIUI a lot of movie companies use this kind of accounting to make sure that phenomenally successful films (like the Harry Potter franchise) somehow make a paper loss.
Based on reviewing some old data and looking at the NYT article again, here are those offset losses:

From the NYT:
Quote:
Fragments of Mr. Trump’s tax returns have leaked out before.

Transcripts of his main federal tax form, the 1040, from 1985 to 1994, were obtained by The Times in 2019. They showed that, in many years, Mr. Trump lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer. Three pages of his 1995 returns, mailed anonymously to The Times during the 2016 campaign, showed that Mr. Trump had declared losses of $915.7 million, giving him a tax deduction that could have allowed him to avoid federal income taxes for almost two decades. Five months later, the journalist David Cay Johnston obtained two pages of Mr. Trump’s returns from 2005; that year, his fortunes had rebounded to the point that he was paying taxes.
Once he started making money, out came new write-offs.

Quote:
As his celebrity income swelled, Mr. Trump went on a buying spree unlike any he had had since the 1980s, when eager banks and his father’s wealth allowed him to buy or build the casinos, airplanes, yacht and old hotel that would soon lay him low.

When “The Apprentice” premiered, Mr. Trump had opened only two golf courses and was renovating two more. By the end of 2015, he had 15 courses and was transforming the Old Post Office building in Washington into a Trump International Hotel. But rather than making him wealthier, the tax records reveal as never before, each new acquisition only fed the downward draft on his bottom line.
But these purchases weren't from the income he had, they were from loans, explaining the big loan coming due and Eric Trump's slip up that Russian money was funding those golf courses.

And it seems Trump wanted a lot of those taxes he paid in back (maybe by backdating the debt??).
Quote:
In fact, confidential records show that starting in 2010 he claimed, and received, an income tax refund totaling $72.9 million — all the federal income tax he had paid for 2005 through 2008, plus interest.
So he releases a couple 1040s (or someone did ) claiming he paid these moderate sums of taxes when in reality, what a scam on the US public. Those are the same taxes he applied for and got back that are now subject to an IRS action (what Trump claims is an audit) to take back.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 28th September 2020 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:27 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
When they put out their data for peer review, I will be willing to accept their claim.

I'm an author on numerous peer-reviewed papers, and have reviewed several. No reviewer has ever asked for original notes, data, or other proof that our source data was legitimate. At least in my field, that is not generally how peer review works. The concern is whether or not the work is sufficiently novel, meaningful, complete, and otherwise worthy of publication. This work certainly is.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:30 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Would those be the fake returns that were totally made up by the failing NYT?
More cognitive dissonance (paraphrasing):

Trump: "That information was obtained illegally."

Trump: "Fake news, those aren't my tax returns."

Oh what a tangled web we weave....
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:34 PM   #331
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From a Tweet

ABC: Trump Craps on America!
CNN: Trump Craps on America!
MSNBC: Trump Craps on America!
BBC: Johnson Craps on us but not as bad as Trump Craps on those poor, daft bastards in America.
FOX: Crap is good for you and delicious!
OANN: I wish He would Crap on me.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:38 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
I'm an author on numerous peer-reviewed papers, and have reviewed several. No reviewer has ever asked for original notes, data, or other proof that our source data was legitimate. At least in my field, that is not generally how peer review works. The concern is whether or not the work is sufficiently novel, meaningful, complete, and otherwise worthy of publication. This work certainly is.
Why would I need the data to proof the new york times is credible? Of course they are credible. I have no doubt to the veracity of the information they put out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:46 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Most people don't have very complex taxes, and when they do overpay they tend to get it back as a refund. Trump does have very complex taxes, and he didn't get back his overpayment as a refund.

He used it as a carryover to apply to future taxes, because (get this) he expected his future taxes to be larger.
Not sure where you got this from.

See my post above.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
... Kind of like the Clintons deducting their donation of used underwear?

If that wasn't kosher, then by all means, the IRS should go after him for it. But nobody here is in a position to really evaluate that.
Did you actually look at the details here or are you just relying on Grover Norquist's outrage?

Quote:
As governor of Arkansas in 1986, Clinton hand wrote a $6 charity deduction for "3 pr. underwear" that even today are only valued at $1 each, according to the analysis from Americans for Tax Reform. He also claimed $75 for "Garbardine suit - ripped pants" valued by Salvation Army this year at $10-$60.
The total of 17 items was $555. Are you seriously comparing that to Trump's tax deduction shenanigans?

Quote:
For just 10 items the Clintons overvalued in their 1986 tax returns, said the group headed by Grover Norquist, they were able to take a write-off of over $1,500 in 2016 dollars.
Notice he even inflated it to 2016 dollars to make a greater outrage impact.

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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:47 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
From a Tweet

ABC: Trump Craps on America!
CNN: Trump Craps on America!
MSNBC: Trump Craps on America!
BBC: Johnson Craps on us but not as bad as Trump Craps on those poor, daft bastards in America.
FOX: Crap is good for you and delicious!
OANN: I wish He would Crap on me.
Sad.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:56 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not sure where you got this from.
Take a guess.

Quote:
Did you actually look at the details here or are you just relying on Grover Norquist's outrage?
I'm not outraged. It's more pathetic than anything else. The point, which you are studiously ignoring, is that people try to reduce their tax liability. You're outraged that Trump did so to a greater degree. But that's the way the tax laws are written. Unless something illegal happened (and the NYT isn't alleging that anything was), then the fact that he reduced his tax liability to such a degree isn't a strike against him. It is possibly a strike against the tax code, but even there, the analysis provided by the NYT isn't enough to draw such conclusions.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:57 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
So... a takeaway is that about $4 Billion of Trump's supposed worth seems to have been conjured out of the void, and with about that much substance to it.
How convenient. Trump can claim a 4 billion dollar loss when he's out of office and his reputation tarnished.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:57 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess.



I'm not outraged. It's more pathetic than anything else. The point, which you are studiously ignoring, is that people try to reduce their tax liability. You're outraged that Trump did so to a greater degree. But that's the way the tax laws are written. Unless something illegal happened (and the NYT isn't alleging that anything was), then the fact that he reduced his tax liability to such a degree isn't a strike against him. It is possibly a strike against the tax code, but even there, the analysis provided by the NYT isn't enough to draw such conclusions.
It is a strike against him. I can determine anything I wish, and the necessary threshold, as a strike.
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Old 28th September 2020, 02:58 PM   #338
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wrong thread

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Old 28th September 2020, 02:59 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yes it is. And that's what you're doing. From the NYT:
First, how much taxes did he pay in the years in which he did pay? Second, why would you expect him to pay income taxes in years in which he lost money?

Seriously, how do you think the tax code works?
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Old 28th September 2020, 03:01 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a strike against him. I can determine anything I wish, and the necessary threshold, as a strike.
Yes, you can indeed use arbitrary and nonsensical standards, nobody can stop you. Go for it!
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Old 28th September 2020, 03:04 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, you can indeed use arbitrary and nonsensical standards, nobody can stop you. Go for it!
I don't know what would count as not arbitrary.
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Old 28th September 2020, 03:18 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
First, how much taxes did he pay in the years in which he did pay? Second, why would you expect him to pay income taxes in years in which he lost money?

Seriously, how do you think the tax code works?
Trump presented himself to America and was ultimately elected as a brilliant businessman. But a brilliant businessman doesn't lose so much money than he owes no taxes most years. His core public identity is a lie. Beyond that, there are real doubts about whether his loss numbers are legitimate. If he was misvaluing properties, overvaluing losses and costs, paying himself through shell companies, claiming personal spending as business expenses, etc., that's all outright fraud. The bottom line is that Trump has never been what he pretended to be, and his taxes prove it.

Here's the NYT story from two years ago about Trump's tax scams:
Quote:
President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...red-trump.html

Last edited by Bob001; 28th September 2020 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 28th September 2020, 03:28 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess.
I'm not going to hunt that down. Looks to me like you misinterpreted something.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm not outraged. It's more pathetic than anything else. The point, which you are studiously ignoring, is that people try to reduce their tax liability. You're outraged that Trump did so to a greater degree. But that's the way the tax laws are written.
No Zig, it is not about degree.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Unless something illegal happened (and the NYT isn't alleging that anything was), then the fact that he reduced his tax liability to such a degree isn't a strike against him. It is possibly a strike against the tax code, but even there, the analysis provided by the NYT isn't enough to draw such conclusions.
Well something illegal probably did happen, according to the IRS and the NY State AG.
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Thousands of COMMUTATIONS GRANTED BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA (2009-2017)

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 28th September 2020, 03:45 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
1. I doubt Trump thinks, much less that far ahead.
2. I doubt it will matter. Trump is not scared of getting caught in some paradoxical "gotcha" moment. He'll tell his supporters one thing, then turn and in the same breathe tell the IRS another, and he will not lose a second of sleep over it. Telling two things at once has worked for him so far, no reason to think it will stop.
For example - Trump loses a court case and pays a large fine, among other consequences. 5 minutes later, he's very publicly claiming that it's a nothingburger and he just graciously donated some amount to the government.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Breaking my self-imposed silence on political issues to provide a Rush report. I know most people here don't listen to Rush, but they are curious how he and other high profile conservative yappers will respond.

The first words out of his mouth on his radio show today were, if I recall correctly, "They keep recycling this stuff." In other words, his take was that there was nothing to see here and we already knew everything and none of it matters anyway.
Sounds about right. Trump was previously caught being involved in massive tax fraud and the story effectively vanished in, what, 2 days?

Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
You are dreaming about a different electorate. In the real world 50% of the US electorate would view such tax evasion as a virtue.
I strongly disagree. "Ignorable fault," perhaps, but not a virtue. Also, it's worth remembering that Trump voters in 2016 were far closer to a third than a half of the US electorate and, IIRC, more people simply didn't vote than voted for Trump (or Hillary).

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm sure your online persona "Has no opinion" about Trump.
Remember who you're talking to?
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Old 28th September 2020, 04:10 PM   #345
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Ron Akerman, the former Asst. Special Watergate Prosecutor and former Asst. US Attorney, SD of NY says it looks like both Trump and Ivanka engaged in classic tax fraud when Trump wrote off almost $750K in 'consulting fees' to her and she wrote them off, too. If he weren't president now, they'd both be indicted. Looks like both Daddy and First Daughter will be needing that pardon. Maybe they'll need an entire First Family pardon.
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Old 28th September 2020, 04:20 PM   #346
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When this is all over Trump, his family and his associates are all going to be in prison.

they will fill a whole prison wing, give them the one on the west.
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Old 28th September 2020, 04:24 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Peter Strzok notes that even after the President leaves office, his knowledge of the nation's deepest secrets doesn't evaporate. Trump owes as much as a half-billion dollars, some to foreign interests. What might he give up to a foreign power who offered relief?
I just tried to imagine how that might go:
Unnamed Foreign Leader: OK Mr Trump we will forgive your debts if you tell us the US Military secrets that you learned as President.

Trump: You didn't call me "Sir"...

UFL: Talk, pig.

T: I... er... it's hydrosonic.

UFL: What?

T: The weapon. They say it's hydrosonic, but in fact it's super-duper. Not many people know that...

UFL: We need to talk specifics here "sir"...

T: Oh, well it is specific. It's the most specific super-duper hydrosonic rocket ever...

UFL: So it's a rocket?

T: I never said rocket. It might be a rocket, it might not... you know my uncle was a rocket scientist? He made big rockets, the biggest. Of, course in those days no one even knew what hydrosonic was, but we do and we got 'em. They're the best...

UFL: OK Mr Trump, I guess we'll have to take the money...

T: What money?
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Old 28th September 2020, 04:33 PM   #348
Aridas
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For those who feel like it, here's a handy summation of a bunch of the numbers.

To poke at one of the not so poked at numbers - $95,464

That's the total sum nine of Trump’s companies have paid as expenses to style Ivanka Trump’s hair.

I'm reminded a little of the conniption that certain groups had about AOC spending $300 on her hair out of her own pocket and fully expecting them to have not a bit to say about Ivanka's hair expenses.
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Old 28th September 2020, 05:07 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I'm reminded a little of the conniption that certain groups had about AOC spending $300 on her hair out of her own pocket and fully expecting them to have not a bit to say about Ivanka's hair expenses.
That's completely different and you know it. First of all, AOC's a Dem. Second, what about this wire transfer to Hunter Biden?
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Old 28th September 2020, 05:14 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Wait. $750?

That means Trump pays more for sex than he pays in taxes.
Which is upside down since Trump gets off on cheating on his taxes even faster than a quickie with a hooker.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:18 PM   #351
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I wonder what the next NYT reports on the taxes will be.
I would love to learn specifics about loans from Deutsche Bank and the role of Anthony Kennedy junior.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:30 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
That's completely different and you know it. First of all, AOC's a Dem. Second, what about this wire transfer to Hunter Biden?
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:31 PM   #353
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Here's my prediction if Trump loses the the election:

Trump pardons his entire family for all federal crimes sometime between the confirmation of Biden's win and Jan 19th, 2021.
On January 19th or just before, Trump resigns. Pence is sworn in. He pardons Trump for all federal crimes. Trump then leaves for Mar a Lago.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:38 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here's my prediction if Trump loses the the election:

Trump pardons his entire family for all federal crimes sometime between the confirmation of Biden's win and Jan 19th, 2021.
On January 19th or just before, Trump resigns. Pence is sworn in. He pardons Trump for all federal crimes. Trump then leaves for Mar a Lago.
All likely. Won't do a thing to stop the State of New York investigation. There's a grand jury investigation that Trump can't stop. He may have issues in New Jersey and Virginia that might cause him some problems.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:41 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here's my prediction if Trump loses the the election:

Trump pardons his entire family for all federal crimes sometime between the confirmation of Biden's win and Jan 19th, 2021.
On January 19th or just before, Trump resigns. Pence is sworn in. He pardons Trump for all federal crimes. Trump then leaves for Mar a Lago.
Trump cares mostly about himself, so he should have President Pence pardon the entire family. The Republican Party might be on board as a thank you (or quid pro quo) for the third Supreme Court justice. It could also help the Republican brand, sparing them of another "hoax" investigation/scandal. It would mean the GOP refuses to undergo deTrumpification, and things could get even worse.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:44 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
All likely. Won't do a thing to stop the State of New York investigation. There's a grand jury investigation that Trump can't stop. He may have issues in New Jersey and Virginia that might cause him some problems.
Agreed. That's what gives me hope that he will pay for his crimes. He can't do a damn thing about his state crimes. I'm just as happy with a NY State orange jumpsuit as a US Federal orange jumpsuit.

I'd love for them to put him on display behind bars and sell tickets. They'd make a fortune. They could sell rotten eggs to throw at him.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:49 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here's my prediction if Trump loses the the election:

Trump pardons his entire family for all federal crimes sometime between the confirmation of Biden's win and Jan 19th, 2021.
On January 19th or just before, Trump resigns. Pence is sworn in. He pardons Trump for all federal crimes. Trump then leaves for Mar a Lago.
I could see a potential problem with that.

I remember someone here mentioning that when you grant a pardon,

1) it has to be for specific offences (i.e. you can't grant a blanket "you are absolved of all crimes". So Trump's crimes would have to be enumerated. Not sure if Trump would want that to happen, or if Pence would be willing to grant a pardon in those circumstances. (Not saying that Pence has any integrity, but he may not want to make himself look bad should he decide to stay in federal politics.)

2) The pardon has to be accepted, and it is sometimes viewed as an admission of guilt. So while Trump might be clear of federal charges, he would be making it much easier for the states to prosecute him over similar crimes, since he would have admitted his guilt by accepting the pardon.
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Old 28th September 2020, 06:54 PM   #358
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IIRC it is considered de facto evidence of tax evasion to run a business year after year that loses money. Don’t at least many of Trump’s businesses, such as his golf chains, display this behavior?
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Old 28th September 2020, 07:02 PM   #359
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I could see a potential problem with that.

I remember someone here mentioning that when you grant a pardon,

1) it has to be for specific offences (i.e. you can't grant a blanket "you are absolved of all crimes". So Trump's crimes would have to be enumerated. Not sure if Trump would want that to happen, or if Pence would be willing to grant a pardon in those circumstances. (Not saying that Pence has any integrity, but he may not want to make himself look bad should he decide to stay in federal politics.)

2) The pardon has to be accepted, and it is sometimes viewed as an admission of guilt. So while Trump might be clear of federal charges, he would be making it much easier for the states to prosecute him over similar crimes, since he would have admitted his guilt by accepting the pardon.
1). Not true. It's called a "blanket pardon":

Quote:
Q: Can a president issue a blanket pardon to an individual for crimes that may have been committed in the past but have not yet been discovered?

A: Yes. That’s just what Gerald Ford did when he granted “a full, free, and absolute pardon” to Richard Nixon for crimes he “has committed or may have committed” while in office.
Pence would just have to issue a blanket pardon for any crimes Trump may have committed in connection with his federal taxes.

2) Pardons have no formal, legal effect of declaring guilt. We've been through this discussion before. Do you think Trump would give a rat's ass what anyone thought if it got him free and clear?

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Old 28th September 2020, 07:07 PM   #360
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As has been proven a billion times now questions of "Can Trump do that? (Which includes people doing other things for Trump)" cannot be answered with "Well the rules say he can't do that" if there isn't a solid, non-ambiguity plan with the agreement of people in positions of power to actually enforce that plan, in place before the fact for when he does it that includes "And who exactly is making this legal decision that Trump doesn't have in his pocket?" and "Who exactly is going to enforce this legal decision that Trump doesn't have in his pocket?"

Fine. We all agree that Trump can't be issued this kind of pardon. What happens when it happens anyway?

"Trump can do anything he wants until someone stops him" is well established precedent.
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