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Tags 2020 elections , chris wallace , debates , donald trump , joe biden , presidential debates

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Old 30th September 2020, 08:17 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university.
Probably just Trump projecting, as usual. He's probably insecure about his own schooling, and decided to vent by attacking Biden.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:24 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff.
Sure, but are yours secret double-0 earpiece/microphone with a special decoder attachment cufflinks?
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:25 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I was amused when Trump, who paid someone to take his SAT for him got on Biden for going to the University of Delaware. If your base is non-college educated white males, deriding someone for the school they went to is rather an odd choice. The few Trump voters smart enough to pick up on it will understand that he thinks even less of them than he does Bidden because they didn't go to any university.
And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:25 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He also is a much more successful businessman than Trump.
He has been running his own promotion into the ground for a while, though, because he's sure that he knows better than everybody else, no matter the evidence to the contrary.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:31 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
About what? That you saw something suspicious in a video?
I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing?
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:31 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Those were just his cuff links. I wear them sometimes with my nicer suits and dress shirts. Instead of buttons at the end of the sleeve at your wrists there are two button holes and you put the link through the hole in the cuff.
President Trump was wearing cufflinks with double cuffs.

Joe Biden was wearing a shirt with single cuffs secured with buttons - he wasn't wearing cufflinks.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:32 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What with your innuendo and JAQing off?

Stop being coy and say what you mean. Then we'll agree or disagree with it.
Hahaha!
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:33 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I saw the probable ornament of a rosary bracelet and not a cufflink. What part of this are you disputing?
I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:33 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I remember strongly disliking Bush, and yet, when it was was over, I found that more than anything, I just felt bad for the guy.

Bush's Presidency kind of got screwed by history. The events of 9/11 made everyone forget: the 2000 election wasn't supposed to be about a historic choice for who would lead the world against Islamic Terror. Both parties nominated the blandest candidate they could. No one wanted to rock the boat, we'd won the Cold War, the economy was doing well, we all thought we'd get rich off the Internet. The election was so bland that it came down to a statistical coin flip as to who won. Without the Florida Debacle and 9/11, Bush would have been an unremarkable, middling President, which is what most people wanted at the time.

Then things blew up in his face, and he found himself out of his depth. Everything that followed was the result of him being the wrong person for the job he ended up facing.


Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.

Understanding that would require they know the difference between someone who is actually joking, and someone who just says they were joking. It's clear that the vast majority of Trump supporters don't understand the difference.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think Joe is onto something here, although I don't know that he took it far enough.

What if Trump sat down with his campaign strategists before the debate and decided that at this point in the race, very few minds were going to change. Therefore, it's all about turnout. In that case, Trump wins if he can depress voter turnout.

If we assume that Trump's conscious goal was to get people to stay home on election day, everything he did makes sense.



It goes along with this story:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...16/3567588001/

For those who haven't seen it, it's about a leak of Trump's campaign data from 2016, showing that millions of Americans were targeted with "deterrence" ads. These were ads specifically aimed at depressing voter turnout among people who were more likely to vote for Hillary Clinton. It was a conscious, deliberate, strategy on his part.

What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy? If so, I'm sure it worked. I'm sure that the antics last night will keep people away from the polls, and in a pattern that means Biden loses more votes that way than Trump. Some of his comments, like bringing up "you just lost the far left" were clearly aimed at that tactic, but the entire performance would have had that effect.

In a strange way, I find this even more sickening than the overt voter suppression techniques that we have seen that use just barely legal, or even illegal, tactics to disenfranchise people. That's despicable, trying to prevent people from expressing their choice. However, this Trump campaign tactic is more aimed at the actual soul of the voters. It aims not to keep them down, but to convince them there is no point in getting up. It's very disturbing.

I hope the Biden team recognizes it, and is effective in countering it. If this tactic were to succeed, it would not merely mean that Trump would be president for another four years, it would mean that he was successful in sapping the spirit of the American people. That's a lot bigger deal than just four years of bad policies.



*Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison.
If Americans are so easily dissuaded from protecting democracy itself (or worse yet, too doltish to see the danger), then if Trump does squeak out a win due to their apathy, the country fully deserves the Orange Excrescence.

Will the Deplorables prevail? This is a test of the national will to democracy.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What if that circus* last night was also part of that strategy?
Here's the thing though. It's not a "strategy" and thinking about it in those terms is dangerous.

A two year having a temper tantrum isn't deploying a strategy, but they can still ruin your evening at the nice restaurant. You don't deal with screaming toddler by outthinking their strategy.

Biden was never going to "out debate" Trump in the way Trump thinks of it, no more than you could out debate an air horn set go off on random.

Trump doesn't sit down and think of these complicated plans to expertly get under the skin of da Lirburls. He's a troll, not Hannibal Lector or Keyzer Soze.

Again against "I'm going to flip the board over and declare myself the winner" the answer is not "Play better chess."
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:35 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
*Circus workers have expressed offense at this comparison.
Have worked at a circus, can confirm .

A travelling circus is all about cooperation, coordination, good communication, hard work, and a solid plan you follow thoroughly to keep on top of things.

Nothing in the Trump administration resembles a circus in any way whatsoever. Okay, maybe a circus with animals.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:37 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.
When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:38 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
And, he got the school wrong - he said Delaware State. My girlfriend is from the Philly area, and PA parents send a ton of kids to UD (in fact, one of my daughters is a Sophomore there). Looks like Trump pissed of a lot of Pennsylvanians by disparaging the University, which is in fact a top 50 public university.
“Bad things happen in Philadelphia.”

- guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:40 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
When accused by Trump during the debate, Biden denied saying it, therefore it should be identified as a Biden lie during the debate in an article about Presidential candidate's lies during a debate.
You go right ahead and do that.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:40 AM   #376
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Sad to say, 98+% of the talk today is about Trump's debate "performance", with his tax returns, the determination to crash the election, and the effing tape recording of him admitting to flat out lying about the coronavirus relegated to birdcage liner.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:42 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
“Bad things happen in Philadelphia.”

- guy running for President about the biggest city in a battleground state, on live television.
He’s writing off Philly. The GOP has written off cities in general but the GOP in particular has tried to make Philly the pillar in their accusations of voter fraud since 2008 despite a singular lack of a shred of evidence. Instead he’s hoping for the voters in the rest of the state who utter despise,loathe, and envy the big cities and their suburbs to rally and support him.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:42 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I haven’t disputed anything. You said you saw something suspicious in a video, and so far, I don’t even know what you’re talking about.
Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you?
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:45 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Cut his mike when it isn't his turn to speak.
Cut off his supply of Big Macs and Cheetos when he gets out of line.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:45 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You go right ahead and do that.
I don't work for The Washington Post.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:46 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
Someone else mentioned the allegation of a device in Biden's sleeve and I've seen the videos and pictures and I offered my opinion of what it was. What's unseemly about this to you?
I didn’t say it was unseemly.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:49 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
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That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:50 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I didn’t say it was unseemly.
Very well. For what it's worth, I didn't say the object was suspicious to me (I thought, perhaps wrongly, that was implied by my proposed explanation of what it was) so maybe that's where a miscommunication occured.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:52 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.
I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:53 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That to me looks like catering to the audience, rather than insulting anybody. When I was done soundchecking drummers, I always used to say "ooh, you noisy bastard/bitch". Why? Because it was appropriate for the situation, they liked it, and it thereby helped build a rapport.
It's the military. "Hey **** Face" with a friendly smack on the nuts directed at people who you would literally die for and trust them to die for you is considered Royal Court Protocol there.
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Old 30th September 2020, 08:56 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I assume that Mike! Is clarifying an opaque poster and not actually foisting this crap. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:13 AM   #387
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Whether Biden was wearing an earpiece or not should not matter. (even though I don't believe it happened). I believe that some stutterers have a device that provides feedback to their ear to help with the condition, but I have no evidence that this was the case in the debate.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Honestly, and I hate the fact that I notice this because it shouldn't matter, it's because Biden actually had a suit that fit.

You're Trump. You own clothing companies and you know the White House has some of the best tailors and fitters on the planet. How are you still wearing that off the rack, hunched shoulder, bad fitting suit? You look a used car salesman who moonlights as Arby's Manager and doesn't want to admit he's gained weight and his suit doesn't fit anymore.
The second The PDJT walked out on stage I said "Omg, his hair looks like ******" It was especially noticeable from the profile view, not much of which one got during the actual debate.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:17 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
During the debate, Biden denied saying it, but he unambiguously said it, therefore he lied during the debate. I don't really care that he said it (and I'm a former US troop) but I know it would be a very awkward and uncomfortable thing to explain or defend in the debate format so he lied and evaded.
Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:19 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
When the intended target of an alleged insult claps and cheers in response, perhaps it wasn’t meant as an insult and everyone involved understood that.
Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/

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Old 30th September 2020, 09:27 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I feel obligated to pop in here and remind everyone that Trump’s response when asked to denounce white supremacy was “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.”

That is all.
I saw someone still try to claim that he has "disavowed" the Proud Boys. They were like, "He did it, you just haven't heard it."

I was like, ask the Proud Boys what they have heard. The message to them was loud and clear. They already have shirts made up.

This is what I always say about this. Is Trump a raging racist? I don't know, let's ask the KKK what they think. Turns out, they love him.

Is Biden a Marxist? Ask Marxists what they think....(no friggin way)
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:29 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Seeing as Biden was abruptly interrupted min sentence, we'll never know how he would have completed that thought.
True, I'll concede that.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Context is all, although it still sounds like a stupid thing to say to any crowd.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bi...upid-bastards/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/3560443001/
Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards').
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:32 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
The Dems are playing 3D chess while Trump is playing classic Checkers with the single minded motivation of just getting to the far side of the board and shouting, "King me!"
I'm pretty sure it was JoeMorgue who said something like, "The Dems are playing 3D chess, while Trump is on a checkerboard pulling down his pants and crapping on the squares."

Maybe wasn't Joe, and maybe I didn't read it hear, but doesn't matter.

As I think about it, I think about the South Park episode with Mel Gibson.

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Old 30th September 2020, 09:33 AM   #393
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Of course, it matters not anyway. It's like two kids taking a test, and one has to have a parent-teacher meeting afterwards because he started yelling loudly when the test started and refused to stop, and then tore up the test and ran out of the room after having thrown his chair at the teacher, while the other sits at home wondering if she got question 23 wrong.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:33 AM   #394
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Mark Hamill on Twitter:
To be fair, it's not clear that Mark Hamill _watched_ the Star Wars Christmas Special.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:35 AM   #395
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Having spent far too much time just now in reading this thread, I am pleased that my decision not to watch was the correct one!
I don't think I ever had a thread hit 10 pages in 24 hours before!
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:40 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I'm pretty sure it was JoeMorgue who said something like, "The Dems are playing 3D chess, while Trump is on a checkerboard pulling down his pants and crapping on the squares."
Yeah that's been my go-to metaphor for a while now.

But to be fair Mike! was responding to me, so I think he gets that.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:42 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
True, I'll concede that.

Biden has great judgement (which he says before calling his audience, perhaps affectionately, 'stupid bastards').

The context, from the links, is that he called for applause for a young officer he had just praised, and after a lukewarm response he called for more. If "stupid bastards" meant anything here, it meant "Show this person you like her."
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“Vice President Biden was jokingly encouraging the audience to clap for an airwoman on the stage, and a number of service members can be seen laughing and smiling at the comment. Seconds before, he praised them for 'the incredible sacrifices (they) make for our country,’” Bates told The Daily Beast.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:42 AM   #398
Foster Zygote
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Having spent far too much time just now in reading this thread, I am pleased that my decision not to watch was the correct one!
I don't think I ever had a thread hit 10 pages in 24 hours before!
Same here.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:45 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I saw someone still try to claim that he has "disavowed" the Proud Boys. They were like, "He did it, you just haven't heard it."

I was like, ask the Proud Boys what they have heard. The message to them was loud and clear. They already have shirts made up.

This is what I always say about this. Is Trump a raging racist? I don't know, let's ask the KKK what they think. Turns out, they love him.

Is Biden a Marxist? Ask Marxists what they think....(no friggin way)
The proud boys are not going to stand down from the violence they are currently doing. Such a weird thing for them to be thrilled about....of course if I liked Trump I would be that inconsistent too.
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Old 30th September 2020, 09:46 AM   #400
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It was amusing when Dana Bash called it a **** show. The times they are a changing.
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