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Tags 2020 elections , chris wallace , debates , donald trump , joe biden , presidential debates

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Old 29th September 2020, 10:31 PM   #241
Venom
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Which is one more reason we should have gone with a young, Progressive firebrand. I'd love to vote for AOC and/or any of The Squad that I've seen so far.
Sure but AOC isn't 35.
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Old 29th September 2020, 10:37 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Can you be specific who is the "we" that didnt go with young progressive?

I love watching progressives try to avoid actually blaming black people.

Call me crazy but I prefer people that actually do things rather than post sweet burns on twitter. For that reason most of the "Squad" are amusing but not who I want to build a coalition around.
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Old 29th September 2020, 10:44 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
A lot of people I know said a long time ago it would be Biden. Anyone paying attention to the "inside baseball" aspects of the Democratic Party saw him coming a mile off.
Right, because all those "people" you apparently know on the "inside" are privy to the machinations of the Democratic Party. Who, for some strange reason, didn't seem to support Biden during the initial primaries until S. Carolina when his candidacy finally took off.
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Old 29th September 2020, 10:58 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
A lot of people I know said a long time ago it would be Biden. Anyone paying attention to the "inside baseball" aspects of the Democratic Party saw him coming a mile off.
Meanwhile, thanks for echoing these stale Trump talking points that serve no purpose.

It's bleakly amusing that you frame this with "people are saying". Is this next level performance art or something?
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Old 29th September 2020, 10:59 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Trump's mistakes do get reported in the media. But typically, after the initial "ha ha look at Trump's mistake", the mistakes can get forgotten. And the mistakes certainly aren't central to Biden's campaign strategy.

Compare that to the way Trump and the right-wing media treat Biden's mistakes... not only are they reported on with much more intensity, but the mistake becomes central to attacks on Biden (by making up a false narrative about how its evidence of Biden's supposed mental decline).
It's true that both make mistakes and the media cashes in on them. But if a Presidential candidate needs to read from a teleprompter the answer to a question, it leads one to believe that person may not be functioning to the level required to be in Executive Office. (Especially if the teleprompter drops out and the candidate doesn't know where to go from there.) CNN is going to have to display Trump doing something like that to even things up. I don't think that will happen.

I was not surprised by Biden's performance tonight. I don't think anyone else was either if they're honest with themselves. Joe is a good and decent man but the Democrats should have picked a younger and mentally sharper candidate, Pete Buttigieg comes to mind.
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Old 29th September 2020, 10:59 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
I kept waiting for the verbal equivalent of Biden bloodying Trump's nose. I didn't get it. AOC, or any of the other liberal firebrands in Congress, would have been more confrontational and better prepared.
Biden didn't need to bloody Trump's nose. All he needed to do was let Trump be Trump which he did. As Napoleon said, "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:07 PM   #247
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Good morning.

Reading the reactions on Twitter and here, Biden didn't need that earpiece after all: Trump did all the hard work.

Wolf Blitzer said it was an "embarrassment for the US", followed by the great Daniel Dale saying "Almost every single thing Trump said during last segment of debate was inaccurate". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQgicGl_n2A

I liked this Twitter interaction:

EjIU1vJXgAIhztR.jpg
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:15 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
I have this dream, it's likely never to come true, but I (for example) would have liked Biden to step up when Trump was issuing one of his veiled threats to sene his armed thugs to the polls and reply: "Mr. Trump, you should keep in mind that the 2nd Amendment protects OUR right to bear arms as well, and there are more of us..."

But Milquetoast Joe unilaterally disarmed by pledging to accept whatever the alleged outcome is and defending the electoral process as being uncorrupted.
Yeah....just what we need, more guns and testosterone. We've seen how well that combination handles situations in Portland, Kenosha, Louisville, etc.
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:30 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Do you think the media refrains from reporting any mistakes President Trump has made?

Now that's funny.
No but that one was a year ago and is so stupid it makes Trump an object of ridicule. It's good for Biden and the Country if Trump is seen by voters as an object of ridicule. It keeps undecided voters home and blunts Trump's already laughable attempts to claim Biden has dementia while creating the impression that Trump already has it.
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:35 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump told the Sturmabteilung, i mean Proud boys to "Stand back and stand by"

Keeping them in reserve for election day
They're positively giddy that their Dear Leader has acknowledged them

Quote:
Instead, Trump addressed the Proud Boys, a far-right group whose members have been sentenced to prison for attacking leftwing protesters in political street fights, and said: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left.”

The Proud Boys, whose uniform is a black polo shirt, immediately celebrated the president’s comment in posts on social media platform Telegram. One Proud Boys group added the phrase “Stand Back, Stand By” to their logo. Another post was a message to Trump: “Standing down and standing by sir.”

Experts who study extremist groups said Trump’s message was dangerous, and could encourage additional violence.

“A green light like ‘stand back and standby’ is catastrophic,” Kathleen Belew, a historian of American white power movements, wrote on Twitter.
The Guardian: Donald Trump refuses to condemn white supremacists at presidential debate
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:39 PM   #251
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I'm glad he told them to stand back. In fact, they should stand so far back that they are over the horizon. Not even Alaska would be far enough.
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:42 PM   #252
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Presidential debate: Trump and Biden's claims fact-checked (BBC)
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Old 29th September 2020, 11:53 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
It's true that both make mistakes and the media cashes in on them. But if a Presidential candidate needs to read from a teleprompter the answer to a question, it leads one to believe that person may not be functioning to the level required to be in Executive Office. (Especially if the teleprompter drops out and the candidate doesn't know where to go from there.) CNN is going to have to display Trump doing something like that to even things up. I don't think that will happen.

I was not surprised by Biden's performance tonight. I don't think anyone else was either if they're honest with themselves. Joe is a good and decent man but the Democrats should have picked a younger and mentally sharper candidate, Pete Buttigieg comes to mind.
Are you referring to a specific incident?
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:33 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He's never been a great orator but he came across as reasonable and responsible. It wasn't his job or his intention to respond individually to Trump's firehose of lies.
This ^
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:38 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you referring to a specific incident?
I think ChrisBFRPKY is referring to the allegation that Biden was using teleprompter to respond to questions during a Telemundo "town hall" and that his performance "fell apart" when the teleprompter failed.

Quote:
Biden then appears to look back toward the screen, saying, “OK, I lost that lady,” in reference to the viewer who had asked the initial question.

The viral post has misquoted that phrase, claiming in text below the video clip that Biden said, “OK, I lost that line.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/bi...-teleprompter/

Unsurprisingly it's completely untrue.

Equally unsurprisingly that hasn't made a jot of difference and it's still doing the rounds in the right-wing echo chamber to the extent that for 40%+ of the US electorate its now true
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:38 AM   #256
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Biden came across as an adult to Trump's out of control child.
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:43 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Biden came across as an adult to Trump's out of control child.
That's your interpretation and one that I share, but I reckon that close to 50% of people in the US would have interpreted it as President Trump being strong, energetic, masterful and owning the debate floor while Biden was being a passive "cuck"

Those close to 50% don't view quiet confidence as being in control, they like a shouting bully.
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:56 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's your interpretation and one that I share, but I reckon that close to 50% of people in the US would have interpreted it as President Trump being strong, energetic, masterful and owning the debate floor while Biden was being a passive "cuck"

Those close to 50% don't view quiet confidence as being in control, they like a shouting bully.
Americans are living the movie Idiocracy.
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Old 30th September 2020, 12:57 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's your interpretation and one that I share, but I reckon that close to 50% of people in the US would have interpreted it as President Trump being strong, energetic, masterful and owning the debate floor while Biden was being a passive "cuck"

Those close to 50% don't view quiet confidence as being in control, they like a shouting bully.
I don't think 50% but certainly his base see it that way. They confuse bullying, impulsivity, and constant interrupting even with repeated admonishments from Wallace as being in strong. It really says so much about them.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:09 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think 50% but certainly his base see it that way. They confuse bullying, impulsivity, and constant interrupting even with repeated admonishments from Wallace as being in strong. It really says so much about them.
So 45%?
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:12 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
So 45%?
47.5%
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:31 AM   #262
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This is the best review of the debate I've read:
Quote:
Donald Trump ensures first presidential debate is national humiliation

Analysis: Only one man looked remotely presidential on the debate stage in Cleveland, Ohio, and it was not the incumbent
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ation-analysis
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:33 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
That's possibly the worst idea I've ever heard.
Why? GOPpers don't respect Democrats because they don't FEAR what might happen if they push us too far. The only way to stand up to fascists is to be willing to put them down HARD if they get out of hand.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:37 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Can you be specific who is the "we" that didnt go with young progressive?

I love watching progressives try to avoid actually blaming black people.
They share some of the blame, but I blame white liberals more who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. We all know the type, the ones who wring their hands about how awful this or that problem is, but refuse to put their votes where their concern allegedly is.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:41 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Sure but AOC isn't 35.
That requirement, like the EC, needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:43 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Right, because all those "people" you apparently know on the "inside" are privy to the machinations of the Democratic Party. Who, for some strange reason, didn't seem to support Biden during the initial primaries until S. Carolina when his candidacy finally took off.
You don't have to be "privy" to any inside baseball stuff to watch the patterns over the last 2 decades. Progressives start strong, then get squeezed out by the Centrists. Been happening since Bill's term.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:45 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Meanwhile, thanks for echoing these stale Trump talking points that serve no purpose.
what talking points? The last 2 decades of "third way" Democrat "centrism" are a matter of public record.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:50 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yeah....just what we need, more guns and testosterone. We've seen how well that combination handles situations in Portland, Kenosha, Louisville, etc.
The violence perpetrated by right-wing agitators might have been averted if they were afraid they might actually be in danger pulling their crap.

America is a free nation because people were willing to FIGHT for that freedom. King George wasn't negotiated into letting us go. The slaves weren't freed by a referrendum. And that moron Chamberlin proved what happens when you trust a fasicst's word, even when written down.
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Old 30th September 2020, 01:53 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
True, but that doesn't mean that President Trump, his campaign and the GOP won't keep mentioning it because they think it's an effective way of smearing Joe Biden - and that 50%, or thereabouts, of the US electorate won't believe them because they've heard the lie so often.
true, but that's why I also say Trump ran the table on both Biden and the moderator. He got his lies out more often than either of the others got the truth out.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:02 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
true, but that's why I also say Trump ran the table on both Biden and the moderator. He got his lies out more often than either of the others got the truth out.
And that will always be the case because:
  • A lie is a convenient soundbite, the truth takes longer to say
  • President Trump will always talk over his debate opponent and the moderator
  • There is a right-wing media lie machine to propagate those lies 24/7

President Trump has learned that it's easy to "win" if you completely disregard the rules and if nearly 50% of the US population think that it's good to behave the way he does.

I'm not sure what Biden or Wallace could have done. Had Biden sunk to his level, President Trump would have won. Had Wallace cut the President's mic, President Trump would complain about media bias.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:03 AM   #271
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Simple question: if you didn't know who was currently President, and had watched the debate on mute -
who would you think was the Incumbent?
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:05 AM   #272
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Maybe if they were in separate rooms for the next debate? That way when Trump had a tantrum they could just cut his mic and let Biden talk.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:12 AM   #273
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I think the only "significant" take away from the debate is that it is now very clear that Trump supports violent white power/nationalists. The old excuse of "good people on both" sides was taken out of context has well and truly been put to bed.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:19 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think the only "significant" take away from the debate is that it is now very clear that Trump supports violent white power/nationalists. The old excuse of "good people on both" sides was taken out of context has well and truly been put to bed.
......and that's apparently a vote-winner for between 40% and 50% of the US electorate - especially white males.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:28 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think the only "significant" take away from the debate is that it is now very clear that Trump supports violent white power/nationalists. The old excuse of "good people on both" sides was taken out of context has well and truly been put to bed.
True .
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:35 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
It will be the middle of the day here, so I'll probably have a look. I'm thinking of maybe making a drinking game out of it. Any suggestions? What merits a shot of booze?
Trump sniffing?
Trump interrupting?
Key words?
Late to the party, but I just want to say I hope Brainache didn't choose Trump interrupting or we've lost another member...
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:44 AM   #277
psionl0
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Trump was boorish and constantly interrupted or talked over the top of his opponent and the moderator.

I'm shocked I tells you. SHOCKED!
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:51 AM   #278
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The Young Turks have called the debate a tie

About 3:30 into this:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:57 AM   #279
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The only thing you need to know from this "debate":

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by"

For those based in the US: Good luck. You're going to need it.
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Old 30th September 2020, 02:58 AM   #280
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It [the debate] reminded me of that time Lincoln debated a leaf blower.

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