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Tags Allais Effect , Dark Flow , relativity , Theory of Relativity

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Old 6th September 2016, 09:03 AM   #2921
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
How can you be sure that this too also not only is religion ?
Religions (what with being made up and being untestable) are quite clearly not the same as science - which not only is testable, but requires testing and testability to be recognized as science.

In all the time you have been at this silly game, have you never noticed that critically important distinction?????
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:10 AM   #2922
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Even a nuclear power station can blow up when scientific purpose and commercial purpose is mixed.
So what - even a non-commercial power plant of any type can blow up given any necessary condition set (improper maintainence, improper installation, aging parts not being replaced regularly, sabotage, wrong fuel/excessive fuel...............) not being present/being excessively present.
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:22 AM   #2923
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
.

I have no reason to believe that former NASA astrophysicist Edward Dowdye not is telling the truth and only the truth,
A good advise to you, always keep you mind open, if not the risk that you have to look back on your self as a silly naive BW person exist.
Cut out the unnecessary stuff. Now, can you rewrite your (Dark Red)sentence to mean something.

Also, It is good advice always keep your mind open

The last part of your last sentence needs more time than I am willing to devote to it. I will ask, however, what is a BW person - sorry, but I am not fluent in Bjarne.
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:29 AM   #2924
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Religions (what with being made up and being untestable) are quite clearly not the same as science - which not only is testable, but requires testing and testability to be recognized as science.

In all the time you have been at this silly game, have you never noticed that critically important distinction?????
The dude denies gravitational lensing occurs, even though we have gobs of experimental proof that it does. He REPEATEDLY ignores or sidesteps the fact that his "theory" would make it impossible for modern GPS satellites to function. He claims, in all sincerity, that kindergarten math can overturn the theory of relativity. He's openly dismissive of doing math to support a physics hypothesis and alternates between refusing to do so, demanding we do the math for him, and throwing out random equations, some of which actually contradict his theories.

Failing to understand the testable nature of science and equating "science he doesn't like" to "religion" is well within the bounds of the scientific acumen he's demonstrated so far.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:54 AM   #2925
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
How can you be sure that this too also not only is religion ?
Because of the abundant data supporting it.
By the way, even stars in actuality just inside the Sun's limb can (during a solar eclipse for instance) be observed just outside the limb.
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Old 6th September 2016, 11:58 AM   #2926
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Bjarne, how is your 'ruler object' able to measure distances?
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:25 PM   #2927
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
The dude denies gravitational lensing occurs, even though we have gobs of experimental proof that it does. He REPEATEDLY ignores or sidesteps the fact that his "theory" would make it impossible for modern GPS satellites to function. He claims, in all sincerity, that kindergarten math can overturn the theory of relativity. He's openly dismissive of doing math to support a physics hypothesis and alternates between refusing to do so, demanding we do the math for him, and throwing out random equations, some of which actually contradict his theories.

Failing to understand the testable nature of science and equating "science he doesn't like" to "religion" is well within the bounds of the scientific acumen he's demonstrated so far.

Nevertheless, he goes on and on and on...oblivious to reality.
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:29 PM   #2928
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Originally Posted by Perpetual Student View Post

Nevertheless, he goes on and on and on...oblivious to reality.
This is the thread that never ends...

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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Even a nuclear power station can blow up when scientific purpose and commercial purpose is mixed.
Since you still haven't addressed my question, I will repeat it:

Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Whatever you were trying to say with that response, the fact remains, if your ideas had any foundation in reality, GPS satellite design, programming, operation and maintenance would have to take them into account.

The fact that GPS satellites work leaves you with the following options:

1: You are wrong and need to go back to the drawing board.

2: GPS satellites DON'T really work and there's a grand conspiracy to create the illusion that they do.

3: GPS satellite designers, programmers and operators ALREADY know you're right, have taken your ideas into account when designing the satellites and their support systems and are inexplicably keeping it a secret instead of publishing research and experimental evidence that would put their names on par with Einstein and Newton in the history books.

Which of those three options seems most likely to you?
Which is it?

If it's #3, don't you think it might be worth your time to try and find evidence of the cover-up your scientific "theories" necessitate MUST be real?
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:33 PM   #2929
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I will ask, however, what is a BW person - sorry, but I am not fluent in Bjarne.
Brainwashed, I assume. That's what Bjarne calls everyone who doesn't accept his ideas. ... Which means practically everybody on the planet, except himself.

Hans
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:39 PM   #2930
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So many options - but probably is that!!! Thanks!!!
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:39 PM   #2931
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Does gravitational lensing exist, yes or no? Does gravity bend light, yes or no?
Answer this, Bjarne. And tell us that is in this picture:


Hans
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A_Horseshoe_Einstein_Ring_from_Hubble.jpg (108.8 KB, 13 views)
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Old 6th September 2016, 12:43 PM   #2932
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Answer this, Bjarne. And tell us that is in this picture:


Hans
My God! It's beautiful!

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Old 6th September 2016, 12:52 PM   #2933
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I wonder if Bj will begin to fall apart in 2016-2017 when this idea of his falls apart?
I have no expectation of such, but I also cannot deny I would not be at all unpleased at such an occurrence!
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Old 6th September 2016, 01:00 PM   #2934
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I wonder if Bj will begin to fall apart in 2016-2017 when this idea of his falls apart?
I'm not sure, but I think I found evidence BJ was banned somewhere else...

http://imgur.com/gallery/MF7Pgg1 (NSFWish)
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Old 6th September 2016, 01:50 PM   #2935
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
Predicted SR-time dilation will be turned upside down a certain part of the ISS path
Funny that, hundreds if not thousands of satellites that would show the same effect, but just wait for the magic ISS
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Old 6th September 2016, 03:05 PM   #2936
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Answer this, Bjarne. And tell us that is in this picture:


Hans
I prefer this one:

http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/03/05/...tational-lens/
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:07 PM   #2937
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
You, as others have often done in these threads, offer to ruin a perfectly good pie fight by dragging demonstrable facts into the matter. (But after 70+ pages of not much gained - aside from idle amusement, who could blame you for the eleventh-hour attempt?)

P.s., Bjarne - the basic fabric of the Universe has not wavered one scintilla under your blithering, blathering foolishness.

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Old 6th September 2016, 08:35 PM   #2938
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Brainwashed, I assume. That's what Bjarne calls everyone who doesn't accept his ideas. ... Which means practically everybody on the planet, except himself.

Hans
What will you call it when you soon will see that it was all wrong..
People is accepting this illogical nonsense not because ít's logic, but only so that they will not look stupid in other eyes.

Group pressure it part of the poison that made it possible to involve the entire human face. Soon we (almost) all one day can say, - ohh my good we where all victims
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:46 PM   #2939
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Answer this, Bjarne. And tell us that is in this picture:


Hans

This is not the point; the point is that a professional in that area hasn’t found any evidence for gravitational lensing.
I guess that Edward Dowdye would say that you will not find the same disturbances in that photo, if viewed at others frequencies, such as infrared, UV etc....
Either you want to discuss what he may or may not be wrong, or you do not.
So either you will hear what the man have to say or you will not, - so if you want, - before that you have to be prepared for such discussion by listen to what he have to say..
http://osnetdaily.com/2016/07/former...tivity-theory/

It is very possible that the stretch of space can stretch / bend the path of a photon too.
But so long we don't know how the photon knows that here space is stretching (or ""curved"") it is difficult to be sure what really is going on..
Don't swallow everything you hear, it is sometimes really difficult to distinguish between what is OK and what really is stinking BW BS. Many times you can smell it.

After all the BW-BS that is out there, I take nothing for granted anymore.
I have no reason to believe that former NASA astrophysicist Edward Dowdye not is telling the truth and only the truth,
If you believe Edward Dowdye have misunderstood something, why not tell us all what that may be ?

Instead you are attacking and asking me, even after you know or should know that I still not have made any final decision..

Last edited by Bjarne; 6th September 2016 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:51 PM   #2940
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Photons have demonstrated to understand that spacetime around energy density (matter) is curved as photons follow a necessary curved path.
If photons really are changing path because of the "deformation of space" , - how can you know that photons did that ;
  • because space was curved ?
  • or they did so because space was stretching ?
?
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Old 6th September 2016, 08:55 PM   #2941
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Energy density (matter) can curve spacetime in it's vicinity, which' curved spacetime acts similarly to a concave lens, though not in exactly the same way.
Curved spacetime is the lens.
How can Energy Density matter curve space ? - Tell me more about the process..

How can you be sure that what you believe is curved space, in reality not is stretching space ?
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Old 6th September 2016, 09:57 PM   #2942
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
How can Energy Density matter curve space ? - Tell me more about the process..
The curvature of spacetime due to a mass/energy source is modeled by the GR tensor equation. I suggest you study general relativity to understand this relationship. Perhaps then you may not be so confused.
Quote:
How can you be sure that what you believe is curved space, in reality not is stretching space ?
What exactly is the difference between curving space and stretching space? In the GR tensor equation, curvature of space due to a mass/energy source is described by the Ricci curvature tensor. How is your "stretching space" described mathematically?
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Old 6th September 2016, 10:50 PM   #2943
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If photons really are changing path because of the "deformation of space" , - how can you know that photons did that ;
  • because space was curved ?
  • or they did so because space was stretching ?
?
Call it curved, call it stretched, call it Bob for all I care; all I know is that the predictions made mathematically using GR match both the results of experiments and observations.
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Old 7th September 2016, 03:31 AM   #2944
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Originally Posted by BazBear View Post
Call it curved, call it stretched, call it Bob for all I care; all I know is that the predictions made mathematically using GR match both the results of experiments and observations.
No Bob results in one single postulate, that this ""should"" solve the perihelion anomaly.. It doesn't
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Old 7th September 2016, 03:33 AM   #2945
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Originally Posted by Perpetual Student View Post
What exactly is the difference between curving space and stretching space? In the GR tensor equation, curvature of space due to a mass/energy source is described by the Ricci curvature tensor. How is your "stretching space" described mathematically?
The Lorentz equation is enough, that tells you how much space matter have absorbed.
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Old 7th September 2016, 03:35 AM   #2946
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Originally Posted by Perpetual Student View Post
The curvature of spacetime due to a mass/energy source is modeled by the GR tensor equation. I suggest you study general relativity to understand this relationship. Perhaps then you may not be so confused.
?
This is only words, you could also have wrote; - bob bob bob bob, this also tells nothing about the nature of how space and matter is connected.
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Old 7th September 2016, 04:11 AM   #2947
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
What will you call it when you soon will see that it was all wrong..

People is accepting this illogical nonsense not because ít's logic, but only so that they will not look stupid in other eyes.



Group pressure it part of the poison that made it possible to involve the entire human face. Soon we (almost) all one day can say, - ohh my good we where all victims


Lying about the evidence is not the same thing as trying to actually counter it. "You're stupid for believing what everyone else believes!" Is not a coherent argument.

This is not a grade school playground. You do not "win" an argument about science by babbling about how the concepts being discussed are beyond your comprehension. All you're doing is making yourself look poorly educated. Is that your goal? Is your ultimate agenda to make the education system in your homeland look inept?
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Old 7th September 2016, 04:17 AM   #2948
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If photons really are changing path because of the "deformation of space" , - how can you know that photons did that ;
  • because space was curved ?
  • or they did so because space was stretching ?
?


You've been given a number of resources to address that very topic and your response was to dismiss them unread with the single word, "crap." You've made it crystal clear you have no intention of paying any attention to evidence contrary to your science themed fan-fiction. Why do you still ask for evidence when you've repeatedly ignored the evidence this thread has provided?

Why not admit your "stretched space" fantasy is a religious belief for you and be done with it? Why lie and slander others by accusing them of having a religious faith in science and mathematics when it is you who is operating religiously?
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Old 7th September 2016, 04:21 AM   #2949
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
The Lorentz equation is enough, that tells you how much space matter have absorbed.


If it's enough then show us an example.

Use it to explain the orbit of Mercury.

Use it to explain the observations of gravitational lending.

Oh, wait, you tried that with your little spreadsheet. You proved you really DO have a kindergarten comprehension of math, just like you keep claiming.

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Old 7th September 2016, 04:28 AM   #2950
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If it's enough then show us an example.

Use it to explain the orbit of Mercury.
I did, radius is shorther by perihelion (as expected), this mean stronger gravity and therefore faster orbit speed when approaching perihelion.

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Old 7th September 2016, 04:29 AM   #2951
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Originally Posted by Perpetual Student View Post
The curvature of spacetime due to a mass/energy source is modeled by the GR tensor equation. I suggest you study general relativity to understand this relationship. Perhaps then you may not be so confused.

What exactly is the difference between curving space and stretching space? In the GR tensor equation, curvature of space due to a mass/energy source is described by the Ricci curvature tensor. How is your "stretching space" described mathematically?


It's not described mathematically. He's openly mocked the notion of doing the math to support his ideas as being the easy part. His actual descriptions of his fan-fiction describe stretched space as operating pretty much identically to curved space, with the exception of there being no gravitational lensing and of objects in orbit supposedly going slightly faster than expected when in a north/south orbit. He waffles on if the change in speed would be detectable or if it would be canceled out by other forces.

In sort, he's provided no real math to support his fan-fiction and the only two predictions his model makes have already been destroyed by actual observation.
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Old 7th September 2016, 04:34 AM   #2952
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
I did, radius is shorther by perihelion (as expected), this mean stronger gravity and therefore faster orbit speed when approaching perihelion.


Post your work so we can check it.
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Old 7th September 2016, 04:45 AM   #2953
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Why do you keep dodging this question?

Are you ashamed of the answer?

Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
The fact remains, if your ideas had any foundation in reality, GPS satellite design, programming, operation and maintenance would have to take them into account.

The fact that GPS satellites work leaves you with the following options:

1: You are wrong and need to go back to the drawing board.

2: GPS satellites DON'T really work and there's a grand conspiracy to create the illusion that they do.

3: GPS satellite designers, programmers and operators ALREADY know you're right, have taken your ideas into account when designing the satellites and their support systems and are inexplicably keeping it a secret instead of publishing research and experimental evidence that would put their names on par with Einstein and Newton in the history books.

Which of those three options seems most likely to you?
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:07 AM   #2954
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Answer this, Bjarne. And tell us that is in this picture:


Hans
You know that's a Photoshop image?
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:13 AM   #2955
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Of course not, it will prove to him that the real scientists coming up with all the stuff he cannot learn/does not make any sense to him are still ganging up on him because He Knows The Truth!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
By the looks of it, Bjarne has already fallen apart a very long time ago.
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0

Last edited by kmortis; 7th September 2016 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:35 AM   #2956
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
You know that's a Photoshop image?

* halleyscomet starts "Crocodile Hunter" impression

Crikey! That's a pretty good first salvo in dismissing the image as evidence of gravitational lensing. Unless the image is an actual telescope photo, then the best retort will be to defend it as a composite image, and not wholly fabricated. Whatever happens next, that's just an Hors d'oeuvre to the main event, will Bjarne come up with a response to the image even halfway as effective?

I'm tellin' ya, I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see what happens next.

* halleyscomet ends "Crocodile Hunter" impression
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:47 AM   #2957
John Nowak
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
You know that's a Photoshop image?
Is that based on anything, or is it just your defense mechanism when you see a picture you don't understand?
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:49 AM   #2958
Daylightstar
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
If photons really are changing path because of the "deformation of space" , - how can you know that photons did that ;
  • because space was curved ?
  • or they did so because space was stretching ?
?
Answer these questions you've been ignoring, first:
Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
What exactly will we see?
what will the data for 'the experiment' on the ISS, which you believe will support your notions, look like?
And:
Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Bjarne, how is your 'ruler object' able to measure distances?
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Old 7th September 2016, 05:53 AM   #2959
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Originally Posted by Bjarne View Post
How can Energy Density matter curve space ? - Tell me more about the process..

How can you be sure that what you believe is curved space, in reality not is stretching space ?
Answer the two outstanding questions as mentioned above.
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Old 7th September 2016, 07:35 AM   #2960
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Whatever you were trying to say with that response, the fact remains, if your ideas had any foundation in reality, GPS satellite design, programming, operation and maintenance would have to take them into account.

The fact that GPS satellites work leaves you with the following options:

1: You are wrong and need to go back to the drawing board.

2: GPS satellites DON'T really work and there's a grand conspiracy to create the illusion that they do.

3: GPS satellite designers, programmers and operators ALREADY know you're right, have taken your ideas into account when designing the satellites and their support systems and are inexplicably keeping it a secret instead of publishing research and experimental evidence that would put their names on par with Einstein and Newton in the history books.

Which of those three options seems most likely to you?
4.
Measured orbit data are much easier to use, - these are fare from always compared to calculated data, and even if these always was, anomalies are not scientifically investigated all the time.

The GPS team know there often are serveral anomalies, but the cause of these are never perfectly scientifically addressed, which mean whether these are caused by space weather, gravitational anomalies of the Earth, - pertubations etc..

A computer can fast , easy and automatically calculate the daily deviation and many times each day even automatically counteract the time dilation, even without asking anybody.

Notice only a few polar satellits will have significant anomalies.

If GPS really was such perfect scientific test system as you believe it is, GPS test onboard ISS and Galileo 5 & 6 would not be necessary…

Last edited by Bjarne; 7th September 2016 at 07:44 AM.
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