IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 1st April 2022, 03:32 PM   #81
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
For those focusing on his weight, keep in mind he is reported to have been 6' 5" tall at 14.

As an adult Shaq is 7' 1" and 325 lbs. At 13 he was 6' 6" and at 16 he was 6' 10". Those numbers seem to be pretty close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaquille_O'Neal

So go ahead and call him a fat kid, I would call him quite an unusually large child where a lot (but not all of course) of his weight came from his height.
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st April 2022, 04:47 PM   #82
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
For those focusing on his weight, keep in mind he is reported to have been 6' 5" tall at 14.

As an adult Shaq is 7' 1" and 325 lbs. At 13 he was 6' 6" and at 16 he was 6' 10". Those numbers seem to be pretty close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaquille_O'Neal

So go ahead and call him a fat kid, I would call him quite an unusually large child where a lot (but not all of course) of his weight came from his height.



Looks pretty damn fat, to me.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st April 2022, 05:32 PM   #83
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 92,461
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
I realize some people haven't/won't see(n) the video, but yes he does not seem to be conscious when he comes out of the seat. Then again it happened very fast and it's hard to really tell without slowing it down.
I encourage people NOT to watch it. It's really hard to get out of your head once you've seen it.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 09:07 AM   #84
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So then it's up to you to show how much he would weigh if he was physically fit and how that would matter in the discussion.
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 09:49 AM   #85
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,780
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
So then it's up to you to show how much he would weigh if he was physically fit and how that would matter in the discussion.
Why? He is was a fat kid. I am a fat man and that kid was noticeably fatter than me. It matters because his size seems to be the reason the ride would not hold him. What does not matter is his level of physical fitness.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 12:56 PM   #86
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,776
you have to wonder how if that weight limit was actually enforced, I doubt they have a scale to weigh every potential customer.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 01:02 PM   #87
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 41,990
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
you have to wonder how if that weight limit was actually enforced, I doubt they have a scale to weigh every potential customer.
I can't speak for this exact ride/park, but while I've never seen a scale I have (fairly commonly but hardly universally) seen mockups of the seats at certain rides so it can be determined if/who a passenger will fit in the seat prior to them boarding the ride.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 02:21 PM   #88
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Why? He is was a fat kid. I am a fat man and that kid was noticeably fatter than me. It matters because his size seems to be the reason the ride would not hold him. What does not matter is his level of physical fitness.
Except size is not what is being focused on....he was unusually tall for a kid his age and even larger than most adults. If you're going to say the ride might have held him if he wasn't fat then I would like to understand why you think that. It is possible he would have weighed close to the same even if he was fit.
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 02:24 PM   #89
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,776
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I can't speak for this exact ride/park, but while I've never seen a scale I have (fairly commonly but hardly universally) seen mockups of the seats at certain rides so it can be determined if/who a passenger will fit in the seat prior to them boarding the ride.
I suspect it's the call of some 20 year old ride attendent.
Problem is apparently you can fit into the seat even if you are over the weight requirement.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 02:33 PM   #90
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
Except size is not what is being focused on....he was unusually tall for a kid his age and even larger than most adults. If you're going to say the ride might have held him if he wasn't fat then I would like to understand why you think that. It is possible he would have weighed close to the same even if he was fit.
If you have seen the pictures, you know that the restraint mechanism did not properly hold him, apparently due to his ginormous midsection. He was like 50 lbs over the ride's documented weight limit, on top of that.

And finally, at 6' 5", 330+ lbs is nowhere near a healthy weight for this child:

Quote:
❗ This child or teenager has a BMI that is very far from the healthy weight range. Please check the accuracy of the information you entered. If the age, weight, and height values are correct, the following shows the calculated values for this child.

Results
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 39.1, placing the BMI-for-age at greater than the 99th percentile for 14-year-old boys. This falls in the BMI category obesity. BMI is a screening measure, and this child should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to further assess the child’s health and determine possible causes of excess weight.
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/bmi/calculator.html

For reference, at a BMI of 40, someone is considered morbidly obese.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 4th April 2022 at 02:38 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 03:49 PM   #91
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,780
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
Except size is not what is being focused on....he was unusually tall for a kid his age and even larger than most adults. If you're going to say the ride might have held him if he wasn't fat then I would like to understand why you think that. It is possible he would have weighed close to the same even if he was fit.
As I said, his fitness level is irrelevant:

Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Why? He is was a fat kid. I am a fat man and that kid was noticeably fatter than me. It matters because his size seems to be the reason the ride would not hold him. What does not matter is his level of physical fitness.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 04:08 PM   #92
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,776
if the reports that the safety restraints were not properly fastened are true then the amusement park is in for a world of legal hurt.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 04:09 PM   #93
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,776
I would never ride on a free drop ride like that anyway. Roller coasters I love, but not that.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 04:41 PM   #94
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If you have seen the pictures, you know that the restraint mechanism did not properly hold him, apparently due to his ginormous midsection. He was like 50 lbs over the ride's documented weight limit, on top of that.

And finally, at 6' 5", 330+ lbs is nowhere near a healthy weight for this child:



https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/bmi/calculator.html

For reference, at a BMI of 40, someone is considered morbidly obese.
Yes I have seen the pictures, but I do not claim to know why the restraint did not hold him. If you are claiming to know then once again I would like to understand how you know.

Even if he only weighed 250 he would still be considered in 98th percentile and obese by the CDC. And he's under the weight limit by over 30 lbs.

Quote:
Information Entered
Age (at measurement): 14 years
Sex: boy
Height: 6 feet 5 inches
Weight: 250 pounds

Results
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 29.6, placing the BMI-for-age at the 98th percentile for 14-year-old boys. This falls in the BMI category obesity. BMI is a screening measure, and this child should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to further assess the child’s health and determine possible causes of excess weight.
Where are you going with this? Yes, he had an unhealthy weight and BMI. How do you know that was the cause of this accident?
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 04:42 PM   #95
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
As I said, his fitness level is irrelevant:
So then "he was fat" is equally irrelevant as that is just a measure of fitness.
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 05:00 PM   #96
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
Even if he only weighed 250 he would still be considered in 98th percentile and obese by the CDC. And he's under the weight limit by over 30 lbs.
Dude, what weight limit are you talking about? The weight limit for the ride is 287, he was 330+. He was in fact a giant fatass who should not have been allowed on the ride. He was very nearly morbidly obese. Who cares what his BMI would have been at 250 lbs? When you look at pics of him in the seat, it looks like trying to restrain a giant egg.

Your initial argument, implying that he somehow was not tremendously fat, was ridiculously idiotic. Especially comparing him to Shaq. You haven't brought anything better to the table since.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 4th April 2022 at 05:02 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 05:30 PM   #97
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,780
Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
So then "he was fat" is equally irrelevant as that is just a measure of fitness.
No. You seem to have serious difficulty with a simple concept. His size was quite relevant. His fitness level was not.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 06:35 PM   #98
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Dude, what weight limit are you talking about? The weight limit for the ride is 287, he was 330+. He was in fact a giant fatass who should not have been allowed on the ride. He was very nearly morbidly obese. Who cares what his BMI would have been at 250 lbs? When you look at pics of him in the seat, it looks like trying to restrain a giant egg.

Your initial argument, implying that he somehow was not tremendously fat, was ridiculously idiotic. Especially comparing him to Shaq. You haven't brought anything better to the table since.
I made no such argument. You stated "he was too fat to ride". What have you presented since then to support that assertion? Nothing.

You brought up BMI, not me. Now you don't think it's relevant? I showed you (which you apparently ignored) that even if he had weighed 250 he would still be considered obese and in 98th percentile for kids his age. That would be over 30 lbs under the weight limit for that ride but still obese. So again, where are you going with the obese and BMI argument?
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 06:47 PM   #99
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
No. You seem to have serious difficulty with a simple concept. His size was quite relevant. His fitness level was not.
Right, he was 6 foot 5. That's a huge kid, even if he wasn't "fat". Hell that's a large ADULT, but you don't seem to understand that size isn't just measured by weight.
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 07:56 PM   #100
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect it's the call of some 20 year old ride attendent.
Problem is apparently you can fit into the seat even if you are over the weight requirement.
Earlier I said that this was a case I supported the possibility of suing the ride owners, or operators, or responsible party, for failing to have safeguards in place. If it is unsafe over 287 pounds, I said they should have some means of assuring that no one over 287 pounds gets on.

I've been rethinking that. We would either have to weigh every rider, or we would have to put that 20 year old in a position of saying, "Ma'am. I think you may be too fat for this ride. Please step on this scale if you wish to board the ride."

Maybe what has to happen is you put up a sign about the rule. You give riders access to test seats and scales. If the riders choose to ignore it, they do so at their own risk.

Or....maybe this was equipment failure, and/or poor equipment design, and that might be a legitimate liability issue.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 4th April 2022 at 07:57 PM.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 09:07 PM   #101
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 15,974
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
.....
I've been rethinking that. We would either have to weigh every rider, or we would have to put that 20 year old in a position of saying, "Ma'am. I think you may be too fat for this ride. Please step on this scale if you wish to board the ride."
.....
I dunno where you live, but in my part of the U.S. I have long been accustomed to walking through metal detectors at public buildings, sports arenas and other places where crowds gather, with secondary searches if they buzz. I doubt there would be much resistance if everyone in the ride line had to walk over an electronic scale that would just show a red or green light. And if the teenage operator can't exercise authority effectively, there needs to be a supervisor or security officer on-site who can.

You could also design the ride so that the belts, harnesses etc. would not appear to be functioning if the rider is too big for them to actually function.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th April 2022, 11:42 PM   #102
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I've been rethinking that. We would either have to weigh every rider, or we would have to put that 20 year old in a position of saying, "Ma'am. I think you may be too fat for this ride. Please step on this scale if you wish to board the ride."

Maybe what has to happen is you put up a sign about the rule. You give riders access to test seats and scales. If the riders choose to ignore it, they do so at their own risk.
Having everyone stand on a scale is not an issue. It would be a ground-level scale that everyone stepped on in the pre-boarding process. Either way, we need to care more about safety than we do about bruising the feelings of a large/obese person.

Quite frankly, this sort of coddling is probably what led to this kid being allowed on the ride, and his subsequent gruesome death. Leaving it up to the individual makes no sense, unless you want to see more large and fat people launched into the pavement.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 4th April 2022 at 11:48 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 12:33 AM   #103
erwinl
Illuminator
 
erwinl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,357
It's not only a case of weight, but also of height.
And in this case I think the problems with the ride and the security of it started there.
For sure, he was not skinny, but his body type in width, should have been able to be properly restrained in the ride.

I myself am with a length of 185 cm (say about 6'1") thorougly average in length.
But! I have relatively short legs. With the length of my upper body I think I would end up at something like 195, maybe even 200 cm, if my body proportions would be as they are for other people. Which thus brings me for the upper body in the range this kid apparently had.

If I go sit in a ride, I can never get the security restraint closed correctly. I have to more or less fold myself downwards, by bending my lower back and suffer through the ride. Especially if there are a lot of positive G forces. Even then the restraint with me will tend to stick out more to the front, than that of my wife, next to me.
Now, I'm only 91 kg in weight and I can thus do that bending of the lower back. But if I was a bit more chubby as this kid was, I would also never be able to do even that.
I think that there the final failure of the rides restraint came from (and no, I have not seen the video and also have no intention to see it).

The problem with a lot of these restraints in rides is that they only hinge up and down in order to open and close.
Which is all well and good for most people, but with a certain kind of bodytype, this simply does not work well enough. If they would redesign the restrainst to have also a vertical movement, as well as the hinge movement they have now, then not only larger people can be safely held down, but also shorter ones.
__________________
Bow before your king
Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"
erwinl is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 12:56 AM   #104
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 15,974
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
Quite frankly, this sort of coddling is probably what led to this kid being allowed on the ride, and his subsequent gruesome death. Leaving it up to the individual makes no sense, unless you want to see more large and fat people launched into the pavement.
Let's just note that according to press reports, the kid had been turned away from other rides without complaint from him or his family. There is no basis for victim-shaming here. The kid didn't do anything wrong.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 01:35 AM   #105
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Let's just note that according to press reports, the kid had been turned away from other rides without complaint from him or his family. There is no basis for victim-shaming here. The kid didn't do anything wrong.
I didn't say he did. I'm saying they probably were apprehensive to turn him away on that ride because they didn't want an uncomfortable situation. Like the situation Meadmaker was describing. Turning him away from large quantities of food was a different issue, outside of the park.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 5th April 2022 at 01:36 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 10:08 AM   #106
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 15,974
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
Turning him away from large quantities of food was a different issue, outside of the park.
And this is victim-shaming. A child is dead and his family is devastated. Not something to be snotty about.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 10:09 AM   #107
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Quote:
Turning him away from large quantities of food was a different issue, outside of the park
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And this is victim-shaming. A child is dead and his family is devastated. Not something to be snotty about.
Well, if you want to call it that. I call it being a realist.

I bet the family is thinking mighty hard about how they handled his weight issue and possibly enabled him.

Or, then again, maybe they aren't.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 5th April 2022 at 10:12 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 10:34 AM   #108
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 52,878
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Why? He is was a fat kid. I am a fat man and that kid was noticeably fatter than me. It matters because his size seems to be the reason the ride would not hold him. What does not matter is his level of physical fitness.
Not necessarily, it could have been his height that caused the seat to fail to hold him not his weight. SHould have known better than growing that tall I guess.

As someone who is 6'5" and has only 32" inseams I have lots of trouble with things that assume more average torso size including bad experiences in roller coasters. Namely the harness hitting my shoulders before it locked in and the ride attendant jumping on the over head bar ramming it into the top of my shoulders to get it to latch.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 10:52 AM   #109
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,780
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not necessarily, it could have been his height that caused the seat to fail to hold him not his weight. SHould have known better than growing that tall I guess.

As someone who is 6'5" and has only 32" inseams I have lots of trouble with things that assume more average torso size including bad experiences in roller coasters. Namely the harness hitting my shoulders before it locked in and the ride attendant jumping on the over head bar ramming it into the top of my shoulders to get it to latch.
The ride had weight restrictions that were not followed. The ride apparently did not have height restrictions.

No way anything that happened is the fault of the kid. He did nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Entirely the fault of the ride operators.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 11:30 AM   #110
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 15,974
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, if you want to call it that. I call it being a realist.

I bet the family is thinking mighty hard about how they handled his weight issue and possibly enabled him.

Or, then again, maybe they aren't.

42% of Americans are medically obese.
Quote:
Results from the 2017–2018 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES), using measured heights and weights, indicate that an estimated 42.5% of U.S. adults aged 20 and over have obesity, including 9.0% with severe obesity, and another 31.1% are overweight. Body mass index (BMI), expressed as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared (kg/m2), is used commonly to classify overweight (BMI 25.0–29.9), obesity (BMI at or above 30.0), and severe obesity (BMI at or above 40.0).
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat...sity-adult.htm

The kid was fat. It shouldn't have cost him his life.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 11:37 AM   #111
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
42% of Americans are medically obese.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat...sity-adult.htm

The kid was fat. It shouldn't have cost him his life.
But, 42% of Americans aren't a tick below morbidly obese at 14 years of age. Nor do 42% of Americans exceed the weight limit for the ride. He should not have been allowed on the ride. Being morbidly obese does cost people their lives all the time...just not on park rides.

It's a shame that the parents didn't care enough about their child's health. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say. But, there must be safeguards in place to protect people from themselves.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 11:47 AM   #112
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,358
Maybe there should be safeguards to protect people from dangerous rides, too.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 11:51 AM   #113
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Maybe there should be safeguards to protect people from dangerous rides, too.
Yeah, that is why he should not have been allowed on the ride, as stated.

Good observation, though.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th April 2022, 01:41 PM   #114
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,780
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The kid was fat. It shouldn't have cost him his life.
Seems to me that everyone here agrees with the highlight.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 01:55 PM   #115
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 47,801
"Officials: Adjustments were made to Orlando thrill ride before teen fell to death"

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...XqfpNIdcixRHwQ
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 02:01 PM   #116
Myriad
The Clarity Is Devastating
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 19,648
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
"Officials: Adjustments were made to Orlando thrill ride before teen fell to death"

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...XqfpNIdcixRHwQ

That, if true, provides the final missing piece of this puzzle:

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Essentially, the seat and the shoulder harness are supposed to hold the rider in place by wrapping almost completely around them in the vertical direction. Too large a person, and that hold becomes less effective, like a one-hand grip on a volleyball instead of a tennis ball.

It's still a bit surprising to me that the shoulder harness mechanism would lock in place and produce an OK indication under those circumstances, but that's what the evidence appears to show.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 02:02 PM   #117
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Quote:
This report confirmed that manual adjustments had been made to the sensor [of] the seat in question that allowed the harness-to-restraint opening to be almost double that of the normal restraint opening range," Fried read before news outlets.

The improper adjustments allowed the safety lights to illuminate, Fried said, which allowed the ride to operate, although Sampson was not properly secured in his seat.
Basically bypassing the safety mechanism so that someone of his size could ride. I wonder what the motivation behind that was? Customer satisfaction? Reluctant to tell him he was too big? Perhaps this was being done regularly?
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 02:17 PM   #118
Meadmaker
Guest
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
"Officials: Adjustments were made to Orlando thrill ride before teen fell to death"

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/lo...XqfpNIdcixRHwQ
When you hear the sound of hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

But even before that, think lawyers. I think this will surely trigger a stampede.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 03:50 PM   #119
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 15,974
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Basically bypassing the safety mechanism so that someone of his size could ride. I wonder what the motivation behind that was? Customer satisfaction? Reluctant to tell him he was too big? Perhaps this was being done regularly?

From the link:
Quote:
The report revealed that an operator of the drop tower made manual adjustments to the seat that Sampson sat in, "resulting in it being unsafe."

"This report confirmed that manual adjustments had been made to the sensor [of] the seat in question that allowed the harness-to-restraint opening to be almost double that of the normal restraint opening range," Fried read before news outlets.

The improper adjustments allowed the safety lights to illuminate, Fried said, which allowed the ride to operate, although Sampson was not properly secured in his seat.

I wonder if he used tools, or re-routed a belt, or what. Whatever he did just shouldn't have been possible.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2022, 04:14 PM   #120
Lerxst
Muse
 
Lerxst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Big D
Posts: 732
I imagine the family's attorneys will also be using this to their advantage:

Quote:
Correction: A previous version of this story and headline included comments from someone who identified herself as Tyre Sampson's cousin and told several media outlets that the teenager said he'd been turned away from two other rides at the park. Tyre's parents have since said they do not know her. Her comments have been removed.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/29/us/fl...ort/index.html
Lerxst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:52 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.