IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 18th November 2022, 07:01 PM   #241
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,253
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Remember when it was conservatives that were warning that banning books was a commie/librul value?
Alas, I'm old enough to remember when it as Conservatives trying to do what they're trying to do all over again. The main difference is that now when someone asks "have you no decency," the answer is likely to be "make me."
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2022, 11:48 PM   #242
Carlotta
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 898
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Could you provide a link to the article you reference?

Assuming what the article says is true (not sure either way), and the state can provide such a system, would you agree with it, conceptually?

Like, using an extreme example, let's say the rules allow your 9-year-old to check out the Kama Sutra. As a parent, you don't want this. Is there a problem with a system to honor the wishes of the parent?
I worked for my local library system for over 40 years. I didn't ever see anyone check out the Kama Sutra. If it was available, it was not in the general collection. This is not an issue.
Carlotta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th November 2022, 11:57 PM   #243
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
I worked for my local library system for over 40 years. I didn't ever see anyone check out the Kama Sutra. If it was available, it was not in the general collection. This is not an issue.

It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 19th November 2022 at 12:01 AM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 12:21 AM   #244
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,719
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
Perhaps you didn't learn from the last time you resorted to a non-existent problem to demonstrate the need to have a law to prevent it.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 05:06 AM   #245
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
Now tell me if I am doing this right, Warp. According to the Warp Debate Method at this point I am supposed to say something like:

"Harping on that book. This is funny, funny stuff."

or,

"That post is just too funny, LOL!!!"

How'd I do?

Now I am supposed to declare victory and flee the thread, or do I feign boredom and just slink away?

Last edited by arayder; 19th November 2022 at 05:47 AM.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 06:13 AM   #246
Hercules56
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,905
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The point isn't the exact book, obviously. It is just used as an example.
Nothing wrong with libraries having books about sexuality.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 06:25 AM   #247
Apathia
Philosopher
 
Apathia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,522
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Nothing wrong with libraries having books about sexuality.
Thanks to parental neglect (No one gave me the talk or the secret book.), most of what I learned about reproductive anatomy and physiology came from books in the library.
Something frightening happened to my body, but thank goodness there were books available to explain to me that I wasn't dying.

In those days there was no such thing as sex education in school, but thank goodness there were books in the library.
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections."
Justice William O. Douglas

"Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures."
Author Unknown
Apathia is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 06:30 AM   #248
Apathia
Philosopher
 
Apathia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,522
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Alas, I'm old enough to remember when it as Conservatives trying to do what they're trying to do all over again. The main difference is that now when someone asks "have you no decency," the answer is likely to be "make me."
So sadly true.
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections."
Justice William O. Douglas

"Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures."
Author Unknown
Apathia is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 08:17 AM   #249
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,756
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
It amazes me that people keep referring to the specific example I provided after it turned out it was a bad example. And no, I will not be providing any other examples for this problem that I insist exists.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 08:38 AM   #250
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It amazes me that people keep referring to the specific example I provided after it turned out it was a bad example. And no, I will not be providing any other examples for this problem that I insist exists.
What Warp is avoiding talking about are the raft of children's books which, in an age appropriate manner, explain why Suzy has two mommies, why Johny's daddy is married to another man and why Gretta's mother isn't pregnant any more but doesn't have a baby.

These books scare the crap out of right wing nuts because they feel they normalize homosexuality, abortion and the rest of the stuff they fear and loath.

He talks about the Kama Sutra so he won't have to deal with the issue of how and when we explain to children what's going on in the world around them.

The irony is that despite his conservative leanings he would leave that up to an all powerful state.

Last edited by arayder; 19th November 2022 at 08:50 AM.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 08:44 AM   #251
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,973
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Now tell me if I am doing this right, Warp. According to the Warp Debate Method at this point I am supposed to say something like:

"Harping on that book. This is funny, funny stuff."

or,

"That post is just too funny, LOL!!!"

How'd I do?

Now I am supposed to declare victory and flee the thread, or do I feign boredom and just slink away?
We could call it the Warp Waffle...
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 09:40 AM   #252
TheGoldcountry
Philosopher
 
TheGoldcountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,215
Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Thanks to parental neglect (No one gave me the talk or the secret book.), most of what I learned about reproductive anatomy and physiology came from books in the library.
Something frightening happened to my body, but thank goodness there were books available to explain to me that I wasn't dying.

In those days there was no such thing as sex education in school, but thank goodness there were books in the library.
This was my experience as well. One afternoon in the library reading books about puberty and reproduction dispelled all the myths I had been picking up from school, where this stuff wasn't being taught. (Rather, being taught in such an obtuse manner that you had no idea what they were talking about because the corresponding body parts weren't referenced or described at all.)

In general, life without a library would have really sucked when I was a kid.
__________________
I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten
I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505
TheGoldcountry is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 09:42 AM   #253
seayakin
Graduate Poster
 
seayakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,356
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
What Warp is avoiding talking about are the raft of children's books which, in an age appropriate manner, explain why Suzy has two mommies, why Johny's daddy is married to another man and why Gretta's mother isn't pregnant any more but doesn't have a baby.

These books scare the crap out of right wing nuts because they feel they normalize homosexuality, abortion and the rest of the stuff they fear and loath.

He talks about the Kama Sutra so he won't have to deal with the issue of how and when we explain to children what's going on in the world around them.

The irony is that despite his conservative leanings he would leave that up to an all powerful state.
This is the crux of the conservative position. Specifically, they don't want children to read books that include

The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
Captain Underpants Series
My Moms Love Me
A Wrinkle In Time
Where the Wild Things are
Going Viral: A Socially Distant Lovestory
Rainbow Revolutions

And there are lot of other titles that could be listed. It is never about blocking access to the Kama Sutra or Penthouse for that matter.
__________________
"I kayak, therefore I am"
seayakin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 10:44 AM   #254
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,735
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
That's true at least.

It's really a law to ensure a small vocal portion of close minded bigots will be able to prevent their teenagers from reading things that do not agree with their views.

The best way to raise new trumpists is to make sure they are never educated or able to educate themselves.
Lukraak_Sisser is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 01:56 PM   #255
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 7,954
Question: Does this proposed law have a provision for citizens to praise specific books and to recommend their acquisition by libraries?
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 02:16 PM   #256
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Question: Does this proposed law have a provision for citizens to praise specific books and to recommend their acquisition by libraries?

I don't think that is what the legislation is attempting to address. However, I agree that there should be procedures in place for such. That has equal merit to procedures for challenging existing material.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 03:00 PM   #257
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Question: Does this proposed law have a provision for citizens to praise specific books and to recommend their acquisition by libraries?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think that is what the legislation is attempting to address. However, I agree that there should be procedures in place for such. That has equal merit to procedures for challenging existing material.
Oh, for crying out loud !

Most literate people who frequent libraries know that if you go up to the desk and ask for this or that "great new book" which the library doesn't have they will get in on loan from another branch library (if there is another branch) or use, if possible, their discretionary funds to buy it.

Last edited by arayder; 19th November 2022 at 03:29 PM.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 03:11 PM   #258
Cat Not Included
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It still amazes me that people keep harping on that book. As I stated more than once, it was presented as an extreme example....not as a specific concern. It is a metaphor for child-questionable materials.
Well, since you came up with an 'extreme example' and most people aren't seeing any problems at all, perhaps that's a good indication there really aren't any problems?

What's an example of a book you consider an actual problem, and why are the consequences of children reading it so dire that we needs laws to address it?
Cat Not Included is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 03:48 PM   #259
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,253
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, for crying out loud !

Most literate people who frequent libraries know that if you go up to the desk and ask for this or that "great new book" which the library doesn't have they will get in on loan from another branch library (if there is another branch) or use, if possible, their discretionary funds to buy it.
Agreed. It's not really the realm of this law. Even if it were, though, I doubt it would be in it, because this, like most such laws, is purely negative. It's not in any way a law intended to broaden, improve, enlarge or enhance anything. It's not in any way intended to make people wiser, more tolerant or more thoughtful.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 03:55 PM   #260
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, for crying out loud !

Most literate people who frequent libraries know that if you go up to the desk and ask for this or that "great new book" which the library doesn't have they will get in on loan from another branch library (if there is another branch) or use, if possible, their discretionary funds to buy it.

So, you agree with me...and there are already procedures in place. Good.

I wasn't the one who brought it up. I just addressed the question.

I mean, why should such not be a requirement for a public, state-funded library?

It is pretty wild, some of the mock-outrage expressed around here.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 19th November 2022 at 04:41 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 04:54 PM   #261
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,159
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It is pretty wild, some of the mock-outrage expressed around here.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 07:07 PM   #262
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,253
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, you agree with me...and there are already procedures in place. Good.

I wasn't the one who brought it up. I just addressed the question.

I mean, why should such not be a requirement for a public, state-funded library?

It is pretty wild, some of the mock-outrage expressed around here.
It would appear that it's a policy. Whether it's a requirement or not, and whether it is in any way tied to state funding, though, I do not know. The law under question is a requirement, and is tied to state funding. It does not specify how a good or useful library should do, only what it will be forbidden to do.

The main question is whether the polices of individual current libraries and librarians is so deficient, and so impervious to the enforcement of community standards or other rules set by their current situation, that a new fits-all law must be passed.

Apart from hypothetical extremes, brought up and then disingeunously disavowed, we've seen little if any evidence that any public libraries in Missouri are supplying harmful or pornographic work to children now.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 07:58 PM   #263
Susheel
Master Poster
 
Susheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hyderabad, India
Posts: 2,973
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It is pretty wild, some of the mock-outrage expressed around here.
OK...my irony meter just broke.
__________________
I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon
Susheel is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 09:25 PM   #264
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 7,954
When I asked my little question, I already knew that of course the righties had no notion of anything constructive. Remember: Reactionaries can only destroy.

Oddly, if this current attack on the human spirit goes forward, it will have a result that Ashpit and his clones certainly never intended: the democratization of public libraries.

Surely a good thing, right? No, not for an instant. Because only negative opinions will be heard, the libraries will be at the mercy of the communities' lowest elements, the bigots, haters, zealots, and everybody else who craves attention without responsibility.

That's only pseudo-democracy, of course. Maybe that's what the Missouri Chrrrrrristianz are after. I'm damned if I'll put anything past them.
__________________
If you would learn a man's character, give him authority.

If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th November 2022, 09:33 PM   #265
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Question: Does this proposed law have a provision for citizens to praise specific books and to recommend their acquisition by libraries?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think that is what the legislation is attempting to address. However, I agree that there should be procedures in place for such. That has equal merit to procedures for challenging existing material.
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
When I asked my little question, I already knew that of course the righties had no notion of anything constructive. Remember: Reactionaries can only destroy.

So then you don't think there should procedures in place that allow for suggesting materials to be added? You don't think it is an equally valid concern? I don't understand your point, or reasoning behind the question.

If they added something of that sort to the legislation, would that change your opinion? Would you be much more likely to endorse it then?
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 19th November 2022 at 09:39 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 12:01 AM   #266
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,253
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So then you don't think there should procedures in place that allow for suggesting materials to be added? You don't think it is an equally valid concern? I don't understand your point, or reasoning behind the question.

If they added something of that sort to the legislation, would that change your opinion? Would you be much more likely to endorse it then?
If the proposal is deemed objectionable, adding a rider doesn't make it less so, especially if it doesn't accomplish anything anyway. In this case, libraries already have what appears to be an effective policy of responding to requests for new materials.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 12:13 AM   #267
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 27,719
This is nothing more that the right-wing manufacturing a crisis for its base to get its knickers all in twist over. CRT, replacement theory, BLM, strengthening gun laws...it's all just more fear mongering. Fear is what the right-wing uses to herd their lemmings right off the cliff.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 06:02 AM   #268
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,159
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Now tell me if I am doing this right, Warp. According to the Warp Debate Method at this point I am supposed to say something like:

"Harping on that book. This is funny, funny stuff."

or,

"That post is just too funny, LOL!!!"

How'd I do?

Now I am supposed to declare victory and flee the thread, or do I feign boredom and just slink away?
Don't forget, "I'm not going to repeat myself", in the apparent hope that people will think you offered any evidence in the first place.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 06:15 AM   #269
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,159
Warp, do you have any actual examples of children being granted access to sexually explicit materials so frequently as to warrant a change in policy for all libraries in Missouri, or anywhere else? The fact that you had to present a hypothetical "extreme example" rather than even a single actual occurrence suggests that you reflexively supported a conservative issue without weighing its merit. Starting with a desired conclusion and then trying to construct an argument leading to it is the opposite of critical thinking.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 06:22 AM   #270
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,159
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is nothing more that the right-wing manufacturing a crisis for its base to get its knickers all in twist over. CRT, replacement theory, BLM, strengthening gun laws...it's all just more fear mongering. Fear is what the right-wing uses to herd their lemmings right off the cliff.
And most of the people targeted for such histrionic manipulation aren't going to be patrons of libraries, let alone the sort of people who do much reading at all. So it's safe to target them. The same people are much more likely to use the internet on a daily basis, however, so it wouldn't do to propose restricting access to it, even though the likelihood of minors accessing genuinely pornographic materials on line is orders of magnitude greater.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 08:07 AM   #271
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 33,253
I suspect if such a program is actually implemented, it might suffer the same fate as Virginia governor Youngkin's hot tip line wherein students were encouraged to report instances of "divisive" teaching, etc. Aside from malicious compliance, it suffered, it seems, from the compliance of nuts, including complaints that someone was sympathetic to immigrants, and another that a teacher suggested Beowulf was sexist. It apparently has quietly shut down.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

"There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 10:50 AM   #272
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Don't forget, "I'm not going to repeat myself", in the apparent hope that people will think you offered any evidence in the first place.
Warp came here to "trigger the libs" and entertain himself. But it turns out he's the entertainment.
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 02:43 PM   #273
Carlotta
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 898
I can only speak for the library system I worked for, but there have been methods for asking for a book to be ordered for the collection, for borrowing from other systems if it isn't, or for registering a complaint about materials. This has been the case since it would have been a paper form. It all can be done on line, now.
Carlotta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 02:51 PM   #274
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
I can only speak for the library system I worked for, but there have been methods for asking for a book to be ordered for the collection, for borrowing from other systems if it isn't, or for registering a complaint about materials. This has been the case since it would have been a paper form. It all can be done on line, now.

So then you are saying that procedures for such things make sense and are a good idea?
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 03:16 PM   #275
Carlotta
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 898
I'm saying these procedures are already in place and do not need legislation.
Carlotta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 03:20 PM   #276
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
I can only speak for the library system I worked for, but there have been methods for asking for a book to be ordered for the collection, for borrowing from other systems if it isn't, or for registering a complaint about materials. This has been the case since it would have been a paper form. It all can be done on line, now.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So then you are saying that procedures for such things make sense and are a good idea?
I know let's pass a law that says school buses have to stop at railroad crossings and when they stop to let kids off, the bus lights have to flash and a big "stop" sign has to swing out from the side of the bus!

Let's make a law that says cars have to have seat belts and that everybody has to use them!

Let's make another one that says the manufacturers of medicines have put the possible side effects of the medicine on the side to the medicine bottles!

Don't stop me. I'm on a roll. . .

Let's pass a law that says. . . .
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 03:23 PM   #277
Warp12
King of Kings
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,002
Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
I'm saying these procedures are already in place and do not need legislation.

I am pretty sure that you can't speak for every library system. It doesn't seem that they are required to comply with any particular standards.

What you have identified is the need for such policies and procedures to be in place. Why on earth shouldn't this be a documented requirement for state-funded libraries?

It makes no sense to be against such a thing. Unless you want totally arbitrary policies, procedures, and application of such.
__________________
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.

Last edited by Warp12; 20th November 2022 at 03:25 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2022, 03:31 PM   #278
arayder
Illuminator
 
arayder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,146
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am pretty sure that you can't speak for every library system. It doesn't seem that they are required to comply with any particular standards.

What you have identified is the need for such policies and procedures to be in place. Why on earth shouldn't this be a documented requirement for state-funded libraries?

It makes no sense to be against such a thing. Unless you want totally arbitrary policies, procedures, and application of such.
So pointing out that something already exists is being against it?
arayder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st November 2022, 05:09 AM   #279
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
 
Chris_Halkides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,855
present system

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Several of the things that are in there, our library district is already doing this," said [executive director of the Springfield-Greene County Library Regina Greer] Cooper. "We already have policies — we have a collections materials policy. We have librarians who are well trained — we buy things that are age appropriate and designated for certain ages. We place them in the library in the appropriate place for those age groups.” KCUR
It seems to me that the onus is on Mr. Ashcroft to explain what is wrong with the present system, then how his reform addresses it without causing additional problems.
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz)
Chris_Halkides is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st November 2022, 06:06 AM   #280
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 33,220
Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
It seems to me that the onus is on Mr. Ashcroft to explain what is wrong with the present system, then how his reform addresses it without causing additional problems.
My guess the current system is missing the “punish/defund public libraries” feature.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:02 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.