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Old 15th November 2022, 01:27 PM   #1
arayder
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Eliminate hate and injustice?

Edited by jimbob:  moderated content removed

The Gospels are packed full of stories about the Pharisees who were known for their hypocrisy and perjury.

The Pharisees are the archetype for the sort of modern day hypocritical Christians who are so often lambasted here.

It's worth noting that the anger that Jesus expressed towards the Pharisees was because they had corrupted the law of God with their rules and hence were leading the people astray. In effect they were idolizing the law instead of worshipping God.

My take is that Jesus didn't hate them. He was angry with them for what they were doing.

In this way Christianity, practiced as it should be, is not hate, but is the answer to hate.

Oh, my! Is this leading us to a concrete thing we can do to counter hate?

Last edited by jimbob; 17th November 2022 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 15th November 2022, 11:14 PM   #2
Leumas
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The Gospels are packed full of stories about the Pharisees who were known for their hypocrisy and perjury.

The Pharisees are the archetype for the sort of modern day hypocritical Christians who are so often lambasted here.

It's worth noting that the anger that Jesus expressed towards the Pharisees was because they had corrupted the law of God with their rules and hence were leading the people astray. In effect they were idolizing the law instead of worshipping God.

My take is that Jesus didn't hate them. He was angry with them for what they were doing.

In this way Christianity, practiced as it should be, is not hate, but is the answer to hate.

Oh, my! Is this leading us to a concrete thing we can do to counter hate?

Are you serious or are you being sarcastic??

If you are serious... then just change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam... and see what happens to the statements.

But I think you are saying this tongue in cheek... no?
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Last edited by Leumas; 15th November 2022 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 04:30 AM   #3
arayder
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Are you serious or are you being sarcastic??

If you are serious... then just change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam... and see what happens to the statements.

But I think you are saying this tongue in cheek... no?
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:39 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?

So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
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Last edited by Leumas; 16th November 2022 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:37 AM   #5
arayder
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
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Old 16th November 2022, 12:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
Higher scores in Scrabble for the first two pairs of words.
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Old 16th November 2022, 01:27 PM   #7
Leumas
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
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Old 16th November 2022, 02:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
Are you trying to say something hateful about Muslims and just can't spit it out?
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Old 16th November 2022, 05:31 PM   #9
Leumas
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Are you trying to say something hateful about Muslims and just can't spit it out?

So you are serious?? I asked you three times and you can't "spit it out" that you are serious... why can't you say yes or no??
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Old 16th November 2022, 05:55 PM   #10
arayder
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So you are serious?? I asked you three times and you can't "spit it out" that you are serious... why can't you say yes or no??
Of course, the answer is yes.

If you have point please make it.

After three or four attempts to derail the thread the reader has to assume that you are plying the Muslims-are-evil angle.

Substance, please.
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Old 16th November 2022, 06:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The Gospels are packed full of stories about the Pharisees who were known for their hypocrisy and perjury.

The Pharisees are the archetype for the sort of modern day hypocritical Christians who are so often lambasted here.

It's worth noting that the anger that Jesus expressed towards the Pharisees was because they had corrupted the law of God with their rules and hence were leading the people astray. In effect they were idolizing the law instead of worshipping God.

My take is that Jesus didn't hate them. He was angry with them for what they were doing.

In this way Christianity, practiced as it should be, is not hate, but is the answer to hate.

Oh, my! Is this leading us to a concrete thing we can do to counter hate?

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Of course, the answer is yes.

If you have point please make it.


Had you read my post properly you would have seen that I already made my point.

Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
...
What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
After three or four attempts to derail the thread the reader has to assume that you are plying the Muslims-are-evil angle.

Substance, please.

It is not derailing of the thread to respond to YOUR ... on the USA Politics sub-forum... in a thread about how to Eliminate Hate and Injustice... sudden proselytizing for christianity... and abjectly erroneously based on not knowing history or having read any of the New Tall tales.

Your statements are wrong on all sides of REALITY.... they are belied by the very alleged words of the purported Jesus as fabricated in the New Tall tales (NT) ... and they are belied by HISTORY... and to boot they are belied by the very current affairs going on right now.

And that is of course on top of the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Not to mention that you are condoning Jesus allegedly having maligned and excoriated Jews for not following HIS IDEA OF GOD.... which is the antithesis of Eliminating Hate and Injustice....




.
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Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Last edited by Leumas; 16th November 2022 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
It is not derailing of the thread to respond to YOUR ... on the USA Politics sub-forum... in a thread about how to Eliminate Hate and Injustice... suddenly proselytizing for christianity... and abjectly erroneously based on not knowing history or having read any of the New Tall tales.

Your statements are wrong on all sides of REALITY.... they are belied by the very alleged words of the purported Jesus as fabricated in the New Tall tales (NT) ... and they are belied by HISTORY... and to boot they are belied by the very current affairs going on right now.

And that is of course on top of the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

Not to mention that you are condoning Jesus allegedly having maligned and excoriated Jews for not following HIS IDEA OF GOD.... which is the antithesis of Eliminating Hate and Injustice....
No need for the hateful shouting, friend.

You are the poster who brought Christianity into the thread with your odious cartoon, not me.

Telling folks what Christianity really teaches is hardly "proselytizing".

if you had bother to read what I posted and had bothered to read the Gospels you'd know that Jesus forgave the Pharisees, converted a couple and accepted a couple more as his disciples.

Now what is your problem with Muslims?
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
You are the poster who brought Christianity into the thread with your odious cartoon, not me.

WOW.... amazing... here have a look at the FACTS that belie your claims...

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Jesus loves you, Leumas.
I don't want to encourage religion bashing by saying this. . .

But the religions teach us to love one another. Yeah, I know some folks use their religions to foster hate. But at the root of all the religions is love.

And love conquers hate. . .especially if it keeps its left hand up and stays out of punching range.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think your opinion is mistaken. Atheists very often use derogatory language to describe people who subscribe to a religion. It happens even on this forum all the time. Or look at the way progressives on this forum commonly talk about conservatives. Not just about the ideology or the party leadership, but the people themselves.....


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Telling folks what Christianity really teaches is hardly "proselytizing".




Originally Posted by arayder View Post
if you had bother to read what I posted and had bothered to read the Gospels you'd know that Jesus forgave the Pharisees, converted a couple and accepted a couple more as his disciples.



Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Now what is your problem with Muslims?

That they are still muslims... the same with christians... and all theists... IN 2022
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Last edited by Leumas; 16th November 2022 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:31 PM   #14
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Leumas, it seems to me that the problem here is that you hate Christianity.

Have you considered giving up that hate?
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:39 PM   #15
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So this is a thread for ideas to drive hate and injustice from society...and some are touting religion as a part of that? Like, when do we start looking at history? LOL. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Also, why is this thread in the politics section?
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:44 PM   #16
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I think the world is ending. I think I agree with Warp12 about something...

Christianity is just as much a bigoted hateful religion as Islam. Claiming that it could be used to combat hate is either wilfully blind or idiotic.
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:45 PM   #17
arayder
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So this is a thread for ideas to drive hate and injustice from society...and some are touting religion as a part of that? Like, when do we start looking at history? LOL.
At their best religions teach love and acceptance. For some folks that works very well in reducing or eliminating their hateful behavior.

I grant you that some folks use religion as a excuse to hate.

Since you don't "buy" religion, Warp, the former is not going to work with you. But it does for some.
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
At their best religions teach love and acceptance. For some folks that works very well in reducing or eliminating their hateful behavior.

I grant you that some folks use religion as a excuse to hate.
What about when the "holy" book of the religion directly advocates hate?
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Old 16th November 2022, 07:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
What about when the "holy" book of the religion directly advocates hate?
One of the failings of religious institutions is that they cherry pick teachings so as to meet the political/social beliefs of the day.

Like preachers using Bible verses to justify slavery.

That said it is still possible for individuals to use their religious belief systems to reject hatred.

I have seen people do it.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
One of the failings of religious institutions is that they cherry pick teachings so as to meet the political/social beliefs of the day.

Like preachers using Bible verses to justify slavery.

That said it is still possible for individuals to use their religious belief systems to reject hatred.

I have seen people do it.
I'm sure it is indeed possible. That isn't what I asked though.

What about when the explicit words of the holy text advocate hatred and intolerance?
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
I'm sure it is indeed possible. That isn't what I asked though.

What about when the explicit words of the holy text advocate hatred and intolerance?
Do you have an example?
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:05 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Do you have an example?
Dozens. Would you like OT, NT or the Quran?
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:23 PM   #23
arayder
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Dozens. Would you like OT, NT or the Quran?
Whatever works for you.

But I admit the using religion to hate thing is worse than one might imagine.

Let me advance this discussion by relating to you a church flyer I picked up outside my dentist's office.

One of the church's deacons wrote an advice column in which she advised a parent to disown her child who was in the middle of a serious case of teen rebellion. No professional counseling was advised. No words of sympathy for the parent where given. No encouragement for the child was voiced.

It was the most hateful, unloving thing I have seen in a church community.

And the rant had no scriptural basis! That means the deacon didn't even need to warp the teachings of her religion to get to the hate thing.

I was sick.

Last edited by arayder; 16th November 2022 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Leumas, it seems to me that the problem here is that you hate Christianity.

Have you considered giving up that hate?

Nope... the problem is that you do not know what you are talking about... have a look here
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
I think the world is ending. I think I agree with Warp12 about something...

Christianity is just as much a bigoted hateful religion as Islam. Claiming that it could be used to combat hate is either wilfully blind or idiotic.

Or both and more to boot!!!
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Old 16th November 2022, 08:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Do you have an example?
Have a look here
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Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:01 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Whatever works for you.

But I admit the using religion to hate thing is worse than one might imagine.

Let me advance this discussion by relating to you a church flyer I picked up outside my dentist's office.

One of the church's deacons wrote an advice column in which she advised a parent to disown her child who was in the middle of a serious case of teen rebellion. No professional counseling was advised. No words of sympathy for the parent where given. No encouragement for the child was voiced.

It was the most hateful, unloving thing I have seen in a church community.

And the rant had no scriptural basis! That means the deacon didn't even need to warp the teachings of her religion to get to the hate thing.

I was sick.

You not knowing that there is one does not mean that there is none...

Here have a read and see for yourself...
  • Deuteronomy 21:18-21 if a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, … And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
  • Deuteronomy 22:20-21 ... the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel..... stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house.
  • Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:03 PM   #28
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Which is absolutely vile.

So, let's start with the OT.

Originally Posted by Genesis 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
The uncircumcised are to be shunned.

Originally Posted by Genesis 24:3
And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell
Abraham makes his servant swear an oath that he will not let his son Isaac marry a Canaanite.

Isaac then passes on the message of intolerance to not marry these people to Jacob

Originally Posted by Genesis 28:1
And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
Judah, not knowing it's his daughter-in-law, asks to have sex with Tamar, and Tamar asks what he will pay her.

Originally Posted by Genesis 38:16
And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?
Judah offers her a goat, she accepts. They have sex and she gets pregnant. Later on Judah is told that Tamar is pregnant due to an act of prostitution. Judah's response?

Originally Posted by Genesis 38:24
And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.
So, paying for a whore (and finishing inside her) is fine, but if a woman gets pregnant due to "playing the harlot" she should be burned alive.

(Turns out when she presents him with the things he gave her as a down payment for sending her the goat he lets her go though. Happy ending?)

Exodus!

Originally Posted by Exodus 4:24-26
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.

Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.

So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision
God tries to kill Moses because Moses hasn't yet circumcised his son, but his wife does it and god lets him live.

This next one is a good one. God uses the equivalent of "why are you hitting yourself?" in order to kill Egyptian children.

Originally Posted by Exodus 11:10
And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
So God gets Moses and Aaron to ask for Pharaoh to let the Jews go, but then god directly intervenes, not to let the Israelites go, but to harden the heart of pharaoh so he will refuse just so he can call down the last plague. The murder of children.

Originally Posted by Exodus 12:29-30
And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
God uses magic in order to make someone disagreeable just so he can murder children because they aren't his favourite people. That's psychotic.

Quote:
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live
Kill witches. Just straight up murder them.

Originally Posted by Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Kill adulterers.

You all knew it was coming. Leviticus 20:13

Originally Posted by Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Any gay couple you find? Kill them both.

Originally Posted by Leviticus 20:27
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Stone magicians to death.

Originally Posted by Leviticus 24:13-16
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Anyone who curses or blasphemes should be stoned to death by the whole town. Reinforced in Leviticus 24:23
Quote:
And Moses spake to the children of Israel, that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp, and stone him with stones. And the children of Israel did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Originally Posted by Numbers 5:1-4
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:

Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

And the children of Israel did so, and put them out without the camp: as the LORD spake unto Moses, so did the children of Israel.
Abandon the sick and the "defiled" to die.

Originally Posted by Numbers 25:6=13
And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.

Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:

And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.
God hates the idea of marrying outside the race so much that when someone straight up murders an interracial couple, god is so pleased he halts a plague that had killed 24000 Israelites, and then provides the person responsible and all his descendants a covenant of everlasting priesthood.

There's a few examples.
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Old 16th November 2022, 09:08 PM   #29
arayder
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Congratulations on the cut and paste job. If you had read the verses in context you'd have seen that several don't mean what you think they mean.

But that's not really my point, which is that one can can find peace, love and justice in religion.

I hate to say this but it is ironic that you used religion to foster your own sort of hatred.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:01 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Which is absolutely vile. . . .
Didn't mean to cut you off. That's a lot of scary bad stuff

Have you noticed that as you read through the Old Testament God gets angry a lot and destroys a lot of stuff and kills a lot of people. My church, Episcopal, is open to us asking a lot of questions and I have often asked if God was really a child deity in the OT.

Then when the New Testament comes along it's almost like He's growing up. He sends his son to us almost as if he's struggling to get to know us. Jesus even talk edabout the New Covenant

The Gospels are where I hang my hat. Thes is lots of love a guidence there

But when the disciples get out on their own after the crucifixion and are not writing Jesus stories the effort starts to lose focus, INHO, with some pretty wild statements.

So, off the point, If we have a maturing God, new covenants ad second coming are we really seeing a maturing religion which can't get past its bad childhood.

Last edited by arayder; 16th November 2022 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:06 PM   #31
arayder
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So what happen between you and that Sunday school teacher?

It sure made you angry.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:19 PM   #32
MarkCorrigan
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Ah, the Gospels!

Originally Posted by Matthew 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Jesus says most people will go to hell.

Originally Posted by Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The Jews will be cast to the outer darkness and not get into heaven.

Originally Posted by Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Jesus tells his disciples not to bother preaching to the Gentiles or Samaritans, thus condemning them to hell.

Originally Posted by Matthew 10:34-37
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law

And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me
Jesus hasn't come to spread peace but to break apart families. He outright states that everyone must love him more than their own family or they aren't worthy of him and will therefore end up in hell.



Originally Posted by Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Jesus states blasphemy will never be forgiven and will probably send someone to eternal damnation.

That's just a handful from the Gospels. That isn't everything, and that isn't touching on what Paul the lunatic said.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:21 PM   #33
Thermal
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Didn't mean to cut you off. That's a lot of scary bad stuff

Have you noticed that as you read through the Old Testament God gets angry a lot and destroys a lot of stuff and kills a lot of people. My church, Episcopal, is open to us asking a lot of questions and I have often asked if God was really a child deity in the OT.

Then when the New Testament comes along it's almost like He's growing up. He sends his son to us almost as if he's struggling to get to know us. Jesus even talk edabout the New Covenant

The Gospels are where I hang my hat. Thes is lots of love a guidence there

But when the disciples get out on their own after the crucifixion and are not writing Jesus stories the effort starts to lose focus, INHO, with some pretty wild statements.

So, off the point, If we have a maturing God, new covenants ad second coming are we really seeing a maturing religion which can't get past its bad childhood.
I always thought of the Old Testament God as a cranky old man being pissed off, and the New Testament as the hippie Son taking over the business with a milder management style.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I always thought of the Old Testament God as a cranky old man being pissed off, and the New Testament as the hippie Son taking over the business with a milder management style.

One of my favorite OT pieces is when God commanded to slaughter the men, women, children, and donkeys of a certain people. It really sounded like an action-packed adventure.

Then they softened up with the NT. Boring, God-Bro.

But yeah, it is all about love. No hate or injustice.
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Old 16th November 2022, 10:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Didn't mean to cut you off. That's a lot of scary bad stuff

Have you noticed that as you read through the Old Testament God gets angry a lot and destroys a lot of stuff and kills a lot of people. My church, Episcopal, is open to us asking a lot of questions and I have often asked if God was really a child deity in the OT.

Then when the New Testament comes along it's almost like He's growing up. He sends his son to us almost as if he's struggling to get to know us. Jesus even talk edabout the New Covenant

The Gospels are where I hang my hat. Thes is lots of love a guidence there

But when the disciples get out on their own after the crucifixion and are not writing Jesus stories the effort starts to lose focus, INHO, with some pretty wild statements.

So, off the point, If we have a maturing God, new covenants ad second coming are we really seeing a maturing religion which can't get past its bad childhood.

What about now? Is God an adolescent now? A young man? Middle aged? Old? Dead and vaporized? Dead and gone into the Egyptian afterlife? Dead and reborn again as ...what?

I suggest that rather than these confusing arguments, go for what is literally the religion of peace, Islam. Renounce all evil blasphemies, like pretending Jesus, a mere precursor to the true Prophet (pbuh), is the son of Allah. Denounce all evil misguided blasphemies, Christian and atheistic alike. Accept the word of Allah the all merciful, and walk the path of peace taught in the Quran.

How can people following a fundamentally hateful worldview, like Christians and atheists, ever hope for a world of peace? How can Jesus worshipping sinners, who are rotten to the core, ever hope for peace? How can Allah-denying atheist sinners ever hope for peace?

Let this thread be an eye opener, and let all misguided fundamentally evil people like Christians and pagans and atheists repent and harken to the word of the Prophet, pbuh, and submit to Allah the all merciful.

Last edited by Chanakya; 16th November 2022 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:21 PM   #36
Leumas
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what happen between you and that Sunday school teacher?

It sure made you angry.


Thank you so much... really... thanks!!!


For showing what real christians are like with that statement...

But here is the question... where was Jesus while your sunday school teacher was doing that???

Why did he not save all those children you seem to know jolly well what happens to them???

Did he enjoy the show or was he just not able to do anything about it???
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
One of my favorite OT pieces is when God commanded to slaughter the men, women, children, and donkeys of a certain people. It really sounded like an action-packed adventure.

Then they softened up with the NT. Boring, God-Bro.

But yeah, it is all about love. No hate or injustice.

So much love... that Jesus told his disciples to leave their families unprotected and unprovided for to follow him hoboing about having naked feet washing and midnight trysts in secluded gardens with all but fully naked young boy....

And then he tells his disciples that it is better not to get married and that whoever can stomach it should castrate themselves for his sake.
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Old 16th November 2022, 11:40 PM   #38
Leumas
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Ah, the Gospels!
Jesus says most people will go to hell.
The Jews will be cast to the outer darkness and not get into heaven.
Jesus tells his disciples not to bother preaching to the Gentiles or Samaritans, thus condemning them to hell.
Jesus hasn't come to spread peace but to break apart families. He outright states that everyone must love him more than their own family or they aren't worthy of him and will therefore end up in hell.
Jesus states blasphemy will never be forgiven and will probably send someone to eternal damnation.
That's just a handful from the Gospels. That isn't everything, and that isn't touching on what Paul the lunatic said.

In fact Christianity FOMENTS VILLAINY and is a religion tailormade for criminals.

According to Jesus a criminal with a lifelong career of ravaging humanity and a long trail strewn with his victims whose life he extinguished or made hell on earth is more welcome into Jesus' bosom than 99 of the criminal's victims as long as the criminal believes in the Zombification of the ill begotten human sacrifice... even if at the last hour.... and if any of the victims dare become apostates due to the clear and undeniable utter impotence of Jesus to stop the criminals... Jesus will torture them for eternity in his dungeons.
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Last edited by Leumas; 16th November 2022 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 02:51 AM   #39
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Leumas, I am very sorry about your hate problem. Whether you like it or not people have the right to worship as they please and use religion to seek peace in their lives.

But that brings us to a mention of the benefits of personal and mental health counseling.

I urge you to find a qualified professional.
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Old 17th November 2022, 03:06 AM   #40
arayder
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
What about now? Is God an adolescent now? A young man? Middle aged? Old? Dead and vaporized? Dead and gone into the Egyptian afterlife? Dead and reborn again as ...what?
There is a lot of interesting theology on just that subject. If you read the Bible you can see God seeming to sort out his relationship to us. One might ask how it is that an all knowing God had to send a son to us so he could know us better?

Quote:
I suggest that rather than these confusing arguments, go for what is literally the religion of peace, Islam. Renounce all evil blasphemies, like pretending Jesus, a mere precursor to the true Prophet (pbuh), is the son of Allah. Denounce all evil misguided blasphemies, Christian and atheistic alike. Accept the word of Allah the all merciful, and walk the path of peace taught in the Quran.
That's one way to think about.

Quote:
How can people following a fundamentally hateful worldview, like Christians and atheists, ever hope for a world of peace? How can Jesus worshipping sinners, who are rotten to the core, ever hope for peace? How can Allah-denying atheist sinners ever hope for peace?
One of the criticisms of Christian religion is that there is an often constant focus (sometimes soul destroying) on the sinful nature of men and women. The other side of that coin is that folks can use the religion and qualified counselors in their churches to deal with their hate and rage.

Quote:
Let this thread be an eye opener, and let all misguided fundamentally evil people like Christians and pagans and atheists repent and harken to the word of the Prophet, pbuh, and submit to Allah the all merciful.
I hope that works for you and brings you peace.
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