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Old 17th November 2022, 01:01 PM   #81
MarkCorrigan
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But faith is worthless as a decision making tool. People believe any old rubbish on faith and there's no fact checking or error correction system.

ETA: I also requested evidence for god, if you could.
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:12 PM   #82
arayder
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
But faith is worthless as a decision making tool. People believe any old rubbish on faith and there's no fact checking or error correction system.
Oh, please Mr. Spock (I saw your avatar). People act on faith and belief in the goodness and worth of others all the time. It's the way to go.

Get with the plan, Stan.

Quote:
ETA: I also requested evidence for god, if you could.
Ain't got it you know it. It's faith.
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:16 PM   #83
MarkCorrigan
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, please Mr. Spock (I saw your avatar)
As an aside to the main thrust of our discussion...what avatar, my current one? What do you think it is?



.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
People act on faith and belief in the goodness and worth of others all the time.
Indeed, but it's worthless as a decision making tool. There's no way that you can use faith to demonstrate what is true.
.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
It's the way to go.
If you like believing whatever you're predisposed to sure. If you actually want a good understanding of the universe it's terrible.


.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Ain't got it you know it. It's faith.
Then why on Earth should anyone accept that what you're saying is true?
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:23 PM   #84
arayder
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Mark, I got the avatar thing wrong, I thought it was a Star Trek thing.

Quote:
Then why on Earth should anyone accept that what you're saying is true?
Ah, but that's not really the question at hand. The question is whether people can use a genuine religious belief to eliminate or at lest reduce hate and injustice.

I content that despite all the religious hypocrisy you rightly cite the answer is yes.

Last edited by arayder; 17th November 2022 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:26 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arayder
So what happen between you and that Sunday school teacher?

It sure made you angry.
Quote:
Leumas: Thank you so much... really... thanks!!!

For showing what real christians are like with that statement...

But here is the question... where was Jesus while your sunday school teacher was doing that???

Why did he not save all those children you seem to know jolly well what happens to them???

Did he enjoy the show or was he just not able to do anything about it???
Have you considered assigning some accountability to your ole mommy and daddy who obviously neglected to give you the "stranger danger" talk?

Just a thought. Just saying.

Last edited by arayder; 17th November 2022 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:35 PM   #86
MarkCorrigan
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Mark, I got the avatar thing wrong, I thought it was a Star Trek thing.
Ahh ok. I am a big fan of Trek I have to admit, but no. It's a political thing.
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Old 17th November 2022, 01:37 PM   #87
arayder
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Ahh ok. I am a big fan of Trek I have to admit, but no. It's a political thing.
So don't have to say, "Live long and prosper" to ya'?
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Old 17th November 2022, 02:09 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
<clip claptrap>
It turned out I was breathing out whatever sick crap was in my lungs.
My lungs were right as rain and have been ever since.
I was not cured by the Bible or any iteration of it.
I was not cured by the Pope.
I was cured by the Episcopal Church in which I was sitting.

Really... and whatever that was that cured you only works in that church... his power does not extend beyond it so as to stave off or abate or mitigate the deaths and screeches of agony and groans of suffering of children dying on hourly basis around the world from hunger and disease and abuse and savagery???

You are just lucky to happen to be born in the right place at the right time to the right people whom this force seems to privilege above all those OTHER wretched unfortunate children.


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I believe I was cured by God who answered a prayer I didn't even say.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what happen between you and that Sunday school teacher? It sure made you angry.

But the sunday school teachers' victims you seem to know all about, this god just sat there and never lifted a finger to stave off what hurt them???



Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I believe. I believe there is something Devine going on. I know I don't understand it. But I believe.
It's called faith.
I recommend it.

How do you know it is not Quetzalcoatl or Unkulunkulu rather than Jesus???

How do you know Jesus is not the devil enticing you away from the religion of the Pharisees that your Jesus went around execrating and maligning???

Know them by their fruits... no???... and it seems... judging by history and current affairs that Jesus' fruits have been pernicious and corrupt to the extreme... by your own admission...
  • Matthew 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits....even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.... a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. .... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
As it says above... a good tree CANNOT bring bad fruit... and Jesus' tree has certainly sprouted tons upon tons of deadly poisonous hate inducing mayhem causing strife fomenting fruits.... wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.... QED!!!




.
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Old 17th November 2022, 02:13 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I agree. That's why they call it faith.

But Muslims and Hindus and Thor worshipers and and and throughout the annals of human gullibility have had faith in their faith... and look where they are now... you have faith that all of them had the wrong faith.

What makes you think your faith is the right one???
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Old 17th November 2022, 02:17 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Have you considered assigning some accountability to your ole mommy and daddy who obviously neglected to give you the "stranger danger" talk?

Just a thought. Just saying.

Yup... there you are... showing everyone what real christians would do when one challenges their BLIND FAITH... thanks so much!!!

Following the example of Jesus and Paul I guess...

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Old 17th November 2022, 02:22 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
....
Ah, but that's not really the question at hand. The question is whether people can use a genuine religious belief to eliminate or at lest reduce hate and injustice.

I content that despite all the religious hypocrisy you rightly cite the answer is yes.

And despite history and facts and reality and current affairs and all the measures and markers and standards by which rational people measure the validity of things... yup... that is indeed what faith is... WISHFUL THINKING despite all reason and logic and reality.


And ... ironically and risibly... despite the admonishments of the very object of your faith.
  • Matthew 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits....even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.... a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. .... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
As it says above... a good tree CANNOT bring bad fruit... and Jesus' tree has certainly sprouted tons upon tons of acerbic venomous vitriolic and hate inducing mayhem causing strife fomenting fruits.... wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.... QED!!!



.
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Last edited by Leumas; 17th November 2022 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 02:41 PM   #92
arayder
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I agree. That's why they call it faith.
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
But Muslims and Hindus and Thor worshipers and and and throughout the annals of human gullibility have had faith in their faith... and look where they are now... you have faith that all of them had the wrong faith.

What makes you think your faith is the right one???
I never said I had the right faith. I said I had faith. If you wanna' have a faith competition be my guest, Leumas.

I hate to get on your case, but your blind hatred of all things religious has blinded you to the reality that a great many people use their faith as a way to love and serve others.

Every time someone brings that up you go off on a tear about religious hypocrisy, which no one here denies.
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Old 17th November 2022, 03:01 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The Gospels are packed full of stories about the Pharisees who were known for their hypocrisy and perjury.

The Pharisees are the archetype for the sort of modern day hypocritical Christians who are so often lambasted here.

It's worth noting that the anger that Jesus expressed towards the Pharisees was because they had corrupted the law of God with their rules and hence were leading the people astray. In effect they were idolizing the law instead of worshipping God.

My take is that Jesus didn't hate them. He was angry with them for what they were doing.
...
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what happen between you and that Sunday school teacher? It sure made you angry.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
But that brings us to a mention of the benefits of personal and mental health counseling.
I urge you to find a qualified professional.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Have you considered assigning some accountability to your ole mommy and daddy who obviously neglected to give you the "stranger danger" talk? Just a thought. Just saying.


but yet.... obliviously and cluelessly ...


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
No need for the hateful shouting, friend.
You are the poster who brought Christianity into the thread with your odious cartoon, not me.
Telling folks what Christianity really teaches is hardly "proselytizing".
...
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Leumas, it seems to me that the problem here is that you hate Christianity. Have you considered giving up that hate?
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Congratulations on the cut and paste job. If you had read the verses in context you'd have seen that several don't mean what you think they mean.
But that's not really my point, which is that one can can find peace, love and justice in religion.
I hate to say this but it is ironic that you used religion to foster your own sort of hatred.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Leumas, I am very sorry about your hate problem. Whether you like it or not people have the right to worship as they please and use religion to seek peace in their lives....
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Leumas, you seen to have missed the irony in you getting all hateful in a thread about eliminating hate.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Leumas, like I said before you need to work on your hate problem.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I hate to get on your case, but your blind hatred of all things religious has blinded you to the reality that a great many people use their faith as a way to love and serve others.
Every time someone brings that up you go off on a tear about religious hypocrisy, which no one here denies.
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Last edited by Leumas; 17th November 2022 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 03:09 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
I never said I had the right faith. I said I had faith. ...

Yes you most assuredly did.... have a look at what you said ...

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
....
I was not cured by the Bible or any iteration of it.
I was not cured by the Pope.
I was cured by the Episcopal Church in which I was sitting.
I believe I was cured by God who answered a prayer I didn't even say.
I believe. I believe there is something Devine going on. I know I don't understand it. But I believe.
It's called faith.
I recommend it.


Do you normally go about assigning WRONG faith to wrong divine powers and recommending this WRONG stuff to people???

Do you normally believe so adamantly and vehemently in the WRONG things??... uh uh.... wait... wait.... well... never mind.... you are right.... thanks for admitting it... QED!!!



.
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Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Last edited by Leumas; 17th November 2022 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 03:24 PM   #95
arayder
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Yes you most assuredly did.... have a look at what you said ...
This is the Golden Rule in action.

Get some help, Leumas. Find someone to talk to about your blind hatred. See your doctor. Check your meds. Get some exercise. Buy yourself some new clothes. Get laid.

Reconnect to someone you love and take them to lunch.

Last edited by arayder; 17th November 2022 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 03:42 PM   #96
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Does anyone have a number for a reliable popcorn supplier?

This thread is... mesmerising.
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Old 17th November 2022, 04:35 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by junkshop View Post
Does anyone have a number for a reliable popcorn supplier?

This thread is... mesmerising.
Needs more brethren.
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Old 17th November 2022, 04:52 PM   #98
MarkCorrigan
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I'd like to point out that while I find the Bible a hateful book, Leumas does not speak for me.
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Old 17th November 2022, 04:53 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
This is the Golden Rule in action.

Get some help, Leumas. Find someone to talk to about your blind hatred. See your doctor. Check your meds. Get some exercise. Buy yourself some new clothes. Get laid.

Reconnect to someone you love and take them to lunch.

So the only apologetics you have learned is ad hominems and strawmanning and mephitic red herrings wafting.... trite!!
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Old 17th November 2022, 04:59 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
I'd like to point out that while I find the Bible a hateful book, Leumas does not speak for me.

I am not the one who self-appointed as the spokesperson for the faithful nor am I one of the "us"... so no I most definitely do not and want not to speak for you or anyone... speak for yourself... but I am quite bemused by you feeling that you needed to aver and avow that.
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Old 17th November 2022, 05:30 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
I'd like to point out that while I find the Bible a hateful book, Leumas does not speak for me.
Taken as read, dear heart.
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Old 17th November 2022, 06:06 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Yes you most assuredly did.... have a look at what you said ...

Do you normally go about assigning WRONG faith to wrong divine powers and recommending this WRONG stuff to people???

Do you normally believe so adamantly and vehemently in the WRONG things??... uh uh.... wait... wait.... well... never mind.... you are right.... thanks for admitting it... QED!!!

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
This is the Golden Rule in action.
<snip trite and hackneyed fallacious apologetics>

What is the "this" that you are referring to??? Your apologetics that you denied that you said ... or my pointing out that your denial of your apologetics is belied by your very apologetics???


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
This is the Golden Rule in action...

Ironic that Jesus did not heed it when he was going around slandering and hurling calumny at the Jews and anyone who did not fall for his flimflam. Or when he humiliated the Canaanite woman and told her and the whole of humanity they are not worthy of his bread for the dogs they are. Or when he let that other poor woman grovel at his feet to wipe them with he hair.

But even more risibly... this too Jesus bungled up as well like every other action he took... e.g. his GPStar with which he imbecilically caused the extirpation of innocent children just because he couldn't curb his avarice for gold.

His bungled up version of the Original Golden Rule is more akin to a FOOL'S Golden Rule.

Perhaps his bungled version is why he thought it is ok to go around doing unto the Jews bad things... reflecting what he wished that they do unto him... as we can induce from his desire for that crescendo of his year long cultic bamboozling and flimflamming (or was it three) by getting a weekend long BDSM session with strapping domineering Romans in leather uniforms... before he had to hop onto his cloud spaceship and fly up up and awayyyyy to.... the moon, mars or ???.... in order to sit on a sequined throne next to ... well... himself I guess.

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Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Last edited by Leumas; 17th November 2022 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 07:04 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
More seriously I'll tell you my personal story...
There it is. The personal story. The standard down-the-line formula for witnessing to the unbelievers that is used by proselytisers across the world. I saw it so many times when I was a churchgoer myself. You tell people how dark and awful your life was, but then you found Jesus and everything turned around and now it's all light and roses.

Here's the thing, arayder. You aren't encouraged by your church to do this in order to bring in new believers. The reason the church encourages you to witness is to make it harder for you to break free.

Witnessing almost never works. It annoys people. They get hostile. You have made antagonists out of them. They are now heathen, satanic, the Enemy. Back in the church, you have friends. You have family. You have the people who care about you and will protect you from the evils that await you in the world.

It is hard to break free from this cycle. Of course it is - it is deliberately set up that way. But the world is not satanic. The world doesn't wish you harm. Heck, almost all of the world just doesn't care about your existence at all.

Furthermore, the world is great! The world is beautiful, intricate, awe-inspiring. And realising that it got that way without any kind of direction, without any kind of deliberate act, is one of the most liberating and uplifting things it is possible to experience. Forget your prayers, your revivals, your Holy Spirit. They're all human artifices. Real beauty is found in nature. Real beauty is found in the delicate dance of atoms, of molecules, of stars. There is so much more of the universe than is contained in the Bible. We can show you some of it. Won't you join us?
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Old 17th November 2022, 07:55 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There it is. The personal story. The standard down-the-line formula for witnessing to the unbelievers that is used by proselytisers across the world. I saw it so many times when I was a churchgoer myself. You tell people how dark and awful your life was, but then you found Jesus and everything turned around and now it's all light and roses.
Oh, balls. I just got healed. Believe me my life didn't turning in to "light and roses".

Last edited by arayder; 17th November 2022 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 08:21 PM   #105
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh, balls. I just got healed. By life didn't turning in to "light and roses".

There is no "cycle" to it. You don't know what you are talking about and can't since it didn't happen to you.
Ah but there you'd be wrong. It did happen to me. I saw it first hand. I've spoken about it extensively on this forum for many years.

It took me months to get out of the Pentecostal church that had sucked me in using exactly the same witnessing formula that you're using. And I'm so glad I did. I have learned more about the universe and the marvellous ways in which its bits fit together than I ever would have been permitted to understand had I stayed.
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Old 17th November 2022, 08:26 PM   #106
arayder
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ah but there you'd be wrong. It did happen to me. I saw it first hand. I've spoken about it extensively on this forum for many years.

It took me months to get out of the Pentecostal church that had sucked me in using exactly the same witnessing formula that you're using. And I'm so glad I did. I have learned more about the universe and the marvellous ways in which its bits fit together than I ever would have been permitted to understand had I stayed.
Oh please. I am not asking anyone to join my church which btw doesn't do the witnessing thing. I am just telling you my story. Mark, in effect, asked why I believe and I told him. It's just that simple.

I am sorry if you got "sucked into" believing. That's not what it's about.

Last edited by arayder; 17th November 2022 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 17th November 2022, 09:39 PM   #107
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Oh please. I am not asking anyone to join my church which btw doesn't do the witnessing thing. I am just telling you my story. Mark, in effect, asked why I believe and I told him. It's just that simple.

I am sorry if you got "sucked into" believing. That's not what it's about.
No, it never is. That's part of the formula too.
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Old 18th November 2022, 11:59 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
One of the failings of religious institutions is that they cherry pick teachings so as to meet the political/social beliefs of the day.

Like preachers using Bible verses to justify slavery.

So cherry picking the "teachings" one way is bad....


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
That said it is still possible for individuals to use their religious belief systems to reject hatred.

I have seen people do it.

But cherry picking it another way is good??


Well... yes... I in fact agree with you that it is better if the cherry picking is done for the good rather than the bad.

BUT... and herein lies the rub....

The word cherry picking is a nice euphemism for... whitewashing... or ... sifting through a garbage dump for edible remnants...

If one is wretched and desperate enough to get some nutrition out of a garbage dump... ah well they are welcome to it... but they are not welcome to tell others that they recommend the pile of refuse because the heap of filth is a Golden Buffet.

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Old 18th November 2022, 12:50 PM   #109
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This thread was interesting regarding the 'hate' component

now it has been stripped and is in the religion section,

Good job on making things less interesting
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Old 18th November 2022, 12:52 PM   #110
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"Yo, arayder, I'mma let you finish, but first we gotta talk about how much we hate religion!"
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Old 18th November 2022, 03:11 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I get that, and agree. In a lot of these discussions, Christians are portrayed by citing their worst actors across millennia. The ones I find in meatspace are a mixed bag, but overwhelmingly nice people who tend to be far closer to the Idealized Christian type.

What is that? Please describe it?

The usual. Selfless people who give to the poor and the sick, love their neighbor, all the usual ideals.

How is that any different from the idealized Muslims or Hindus or Loki worshipers???

For that matter how is that different from idealized Atheists or Humanists or or or ... or any humans of any kind???


Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
And when in history have we ever had anything like it?
And where??
How many have you met so far?

As I said, a mixed bag. Those who dedicate themselves to it (pastors, priests, nuns) tend to be waaaaaay over on the left side of the spectrum.

So how many? 10 20 1000 how many have you met... but... since you have not answered how this species of "idealized christian type" is any different from the rest of any type whatsoever and thus the "christianity" bit has absolutely no bearing on the matter whatsoever.... then your point is definitively moot!!!



Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
And with your description a scientific research can have a way to tally up the score of how many are there likely to be world wide and not just by anecdotal gut feelings.

And then science can study if it is christianity that indeed makes them what they are... or is it DESPITE their christianity???

Science can do whatever turns it on. My point is that you and others seem to have gotten a rotten impression of Christians from...somewhere. I doubt seriously it is from interaction with live ones, and seems to rely wholly on criticizing the books that they are not that big on to start with.

What do I mean by that? That the Christians I come in contact with (probably more than average) are across the board nicer people than the ones who say they aren't. But fo sho, the hateful and malicious things you get off on saying about them indicate that you have not interacted with many, or at least had the profound misfortune of dealing with some really nasty ones.


In other words fallacious apologetics of much ado about Scotsmen and them not being true... but you have not even defined what a Scotsman is yet ... so your fallacy is compounded on top of yet another fallacy... a double fallacy whopper of casuistry if you will!!!

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Old 18th November 2022, 03:35 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
This thread was interesting regarding the 'hate' component

now it has been stripped and is in the religion section,

Good job on making things less interesting

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Yo, arayder, I'mma let you finish, but first we gotta talk about how much we hate religion!"

That's on OP, I'm afraid. Leumas is in his usual belligerent form, but arayder seems to have intended this thread as a vehicle to surreptitiously smuggle in his cross-eyed Christian superstitions.

True, if that part of the agenda had gone unremarked, then a broader discussion may have carried on nevertheless. As it is, if Leumas chooses to focus his attention on just that portion of the agenda, well, I guess there was no compulsion and he could have let it go with just a remark or two in protest, but should he choose not to let OP get away with it at all, well then I for one don't blame him.
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Old 18th November 2022, 04:42 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
That's on OP, I'm afraid. Leumas is in his usual belligerent form, but arayder seems to have intended this thread as a vehicle to surreptitiously smuggle in his cross-eyed Christian superstitions.

True, if that part of the agenda had gone unremarked, then a broader discussion may have carried on nevertheless. As it is, if Leumas chooses to focus his attention on just that portion of the agenda, well, I guess there was no compulsion and he could have let it go with just a remark or two in protest, but should he choose not to let OP get away with it at all, well then I for one don't blame him.
No, that was not my intention, friend. I am not talking about superstitions.

I am talking about eliminate hate and injustice?
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:27 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
No, that was not my intention, friend. I am not talking about superstitions.

I am talking about eliminate hate and injustice?

No you were talking about superstitions... particularly your Christian risible superstition and trying to proselytize for it as a "concrete way to achieve justice and eliminate hate"

Which in itself is clearly a superstition too... given that it is a definitively untrue statement as evinced by REALITY.

But more risibly... as evinced by the ETHOS of your posts hurling lascivious and lewd slander and calumny towards me for pointing that out... and your advocation for the very same conduct by the leader of the cult of the Zombified ill begotten human sacrifice you "recommend" faith into.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:38 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
No, that was not my intention, friend. I am not talking about superstitions.

I am talking about eliminate hate and injustice?

Indeed, brother. But you're quietly slipping in your cock-eyed superstitions as one valid means of doing that.

That opens you, and your thread, to getting called out on the irrational gobbledygook your religion amounts to, the hateful lessons it teaches (while also teaching some good things), as well as the good messages other religions teach (along with hateful lessons), no less than your pet brand of craziness.

Could Leumas have elected to turn a blind eye to your surreptitious proselytizing? Sure, buddy, he could. Could he have briefly remarked on it, before either moving on to talking of other aspects of the topic, or else moving on from the thread, like some of us did? Sure, why not. But should he elect not to let you off, and keep on at exposing the insane beliefs and nonsensical ideas you hold to and, more importantly, try to peddle in on here, well then that is his right, and more power to him.

It is a mystery why you started to talk about your infantile irrational and often-evil-in-effect-and-by-association belief system in Politics at all, instead of Religion. No doubt the surreptitious thing, friend. Not accusing you of deliberate dishonesty, although it may have been that; you may simply have been blind to it, and fell into it unawares, just like you're blind to how crazy are your beliefs, or at least how irratonal.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:39 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
That's on OP, I'm afraid. Leumas is in his usual belligerent form, but arayder seems to have intended this thread as a vehicle to surreptitiously smuggle in his cross-eyed Christian superstitions.

True, if that part of the agenda had gone unremarked, then a broader discussion may have carried on nevertheless. As it is, if Leumas chooses to focus his attention on just that portion of the agenda, well, I guess there was no compulsion and he could have let it go with just a remark or two in protest, but should he choose not to let OP get away with it at all, well then I for one don't blame him.

And it still can in the original thread that is still up there in the USA Politics... no???

Where the OP of that thread also agreed that READING things is "a prescription for self control and self discipline"... but unfortunately refuses to read the words of the cult leader whose worship he is pushing.... and despite extolling "calling hate and injustice out when we see it"... he advocates the hate and injustice his cult leader Zombie demi-god hurled at the Jews because they refused to get hoaxed by his flimflam.

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
What concrete steps can we, as individuals and as a society, take to drive hate and injustice from our communities and our nations?

A few points that have become evident to me throughout this thread...
  1. Learn to appreciate knowledge instead of deriding it.
  2. Learn to think rationally instead of falling prey to wishful thinking and other egregiously fallacious manners of unreasoning
  3. Learn how to learn
  4. Learn to read things... and read them properly.
  5. Learn to admit our errors when we make them... and how to not execrate the ones who point out the errors
  6. Learn about the Dunning Kruger Effect and learn how we can dismount off of our perches atop the peak of mount clueless... because misreading whatever little we read -- or not having read anything at all-- gave us the smugness stemming out of not knowing what we do not know
  7. Learn how to not be snarky even after our ignorance becomes evident to us
  8. Learn that Cognitive Dissonance pangs can be alleviated by knowledge and rational reasoning not by excoriating the REALITY that is dissonant with our FAITH and HOPE and wishful thinking
  9. Learn that staying quite in the face of ignorance will eventually cost us more than if we were to speak out against ignorance

Well said. It sounds like a prescription for self control and self discipline.

I'd add in calling hate and injustice out when we see it.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:49 PM   #117
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Oh, it was split, was it? I thought the whole thing got moved here.

Fair enough, the religion part gets shunted here, the rest continues there, that's as it should be.
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Old 18th November 2022, 05:51 PM   #118
Leumas
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Indeed, brother. But you're quietly slipping in your cock-eyed superstitions as one valid means of doing that.

That opens you, and your thread, to getting called out on the irrational gobbledygook your religion amounts to, the hateful lessons it teaches (while also teaching some good things), as well as the good messages other religions teach (along with hateful lessons), no less than your pet brand of craziness.

Could Leumas have elected to turn a blind eye to your surreptitious proselytizing? Sure, buddy, he could. Could he have briefly remarked on it, before either moving on to talking of other aspects of the topic, or else moving on from the thread, like some of us did? Sure, why not. But should he elect not to let you off, and keep on at exposing the insane beliefs and nonsensical ideas you hold to and, more importantly, try to peddle in on here, well then that is his right, and more power to him.

It is a mystery why you started to talk about your infantile irrational and often-evil-in-effect-and-by-association belief system in Politics at all, instead of Religion. No doubt the surreptitious thing, friend. Not accusing you of deliberate dishonesty, although it may have been that; you may simply have been blind to it, and fell into it unawares, just like you're blind to how crazy are your beliefs, or at least how irratonal.

I did... THREE TIMES....

Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
Are you serious or are you being sarcastic??

If you are serious... then just change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam... and see what happens to the statements.

But I think you are saying this tongue in cheek... no?
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
So what do we get when we "change the words Gospels, Jesus and Christianity, for Quran, Muhammad and Islam"?

Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So are you serious??

What you get is a way to see an unbiased uninculcated impartial view about what you said.... which should help you see how preposterously ludicrous it is.

The above repetition was a reply to the intentionally repeated post above it...


Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Are you trying to say something hateful about Muslims and just can't spit it out?
Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
So you are serious?? I asked you three times and you can't "spit it out" that you are serious... why can't you say yes or no??
Originally Posted by arayder View Post
Of course, the answer is yes.

If you have point please make it.

After three or four attempts to derail the thread the reader has to assume that you are plying the Muslims-are-evil angle.

Substance, please.

What do you make of that???
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Last edited by Leumas; 18th November 2022 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 18th November 2022, 06:03 PM   #119
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What do I think of that? A complete lack of self-awareness, is what I think of that. A complete blindness to how entirely similar is what he says to the things a Mo-fetishist, for instance, might say.
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Old 18th November 2022, 06:14 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
What do I think of that? A complete lack of self-awareness, is what I think of that. A complete blindness to how entirely similar is what he says to the things a Mo-fetishist, for instance, might say.

And all he had to do was not even answer since I gave him a way out by stating that I think he was only joking... but instead got snarky and then started accusing me of derailing the thread.

And then his defensive stance for Islam made me think he was a Muslim at first and especially how he said this...

Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The Gospels are packed full of stories about the Pharisees who were known for their hypocrisy and perjury.

The Pharisees are the archetype for the sort of modern day hypocritical Christians who are so often lambasted here.
...
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