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Old 13th February 2018, 08:32 AM   #561
Emre_1974tr
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Christian unitarians and Christadelphians believe Jesus was human/prophet. Despite the false Injils.

They didn't turn their backs on their inner/genetical verses.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:43 AM   #562
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Inner/genetical verses?

It sounds as if you are claiming, with zero evidence, that your own personal religious beliefs are somehow innate to every single human being, and all who do not follow those beliefs (which seems to be almost all 7 billion of us) have deliberately chosen to turn their back on what they instinctively know to be true.

Can you imagine how that looks to everyone else? One man thinks everyone on earth believes the same stuff he believes and, when they say they don't, they're just lying to themselves.

Serious question: Can you conceive of how that looks to everyone else?
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:49 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Inner/genetical verses?

It sounds as if you are claiming, with zero evidence, that your own personal religious beliefs are somehow innate to every single human being, and all who do not follow those beliefs (which seems to be almost all 7 billion of us) have deliberately chosen to turn their back on what they instinctively know to be true.

Can you imagine how that looks to everyone else? One man thinks everyone on earth believes the same stuff he believes and, when they say they don't, they're just lying to themselves.

Serious question: Can you conceive of how that looks to everyone else?
That's the truth.


The Spirit is revelation.


And there's a fundamental revelation in everyone.


That's why everyone's in charge.


It has to be a good person.


Must believe in the truth.


It should stay away from the superstitions.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:49 AM   #564
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Christian unitarians and Christadelphians believe Jesus was human/prophet. Despite the false Injils.

They didn't turn their backs on their inner/genetical verses.
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Inner/genetical verses?

It sounds as if you are claiming, with zero evidence, that your own personal religious beliefs are somehow innate to every single human being, and all who do not follow those beliefs (which seems to be almost all 7 billion of us) have deliberately chosen to turn their back on what they instinctively know to be true.

Can you imagine how that looks to everyone else? One man thinks everyone on earth believes the same stuff he believes and, when they say they don't, they're just lying to themselves.

Serious question: Can you conceive of how that looks to everyone else?
seconded
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:53 AM   #565
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
That's the truth.


The Spirit is revelation.


And there's a fundamental revelation in everyone.


That's why everyone's in charge.


It has to be a good person.


Must believe in the truth.


It should stay away from the superstitions.
Remember the promise you gave to God when you were a baby.

Quran 7:172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

Quran 7:173 Nor can you say, "It was our fathers who set up partners before and we were simply a progeny who came after them. Would You destroy us for what the innovators did?"

Our program is in the direction of faith to truth, and goodness.

Quran 30:30 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the nature that God has made the people on. There is no changing in God's creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:56 AM   #566
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And:

<snip>


Edited by Loss Leader:  Edited to remove link to personal blog. Do not continue to spam links to this site. You have linked to it before and people who wish to view it will be able to find it.

Last edited by Loss Leader; 13th February 2018 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:58 AM   #567
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Please respond to the question, not with your usual canned verses!
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:36 AM   #568
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
That's the truth.

Nope. It's narcissistic babbling in service of your preferred mythology.
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:58 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Twaddle snipped......


It should stay away from the superstitions.
What, superstitions like religion. Excellent advice.

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Remember the promise you gave to God when you were a baby.

more twaddle snipped......
Seriously?

Babies can't make promises. and even if they could, seriously?
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:55 AM   #570
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
... It should stay away from the superstitions.
Some sound advice at last.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:57 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Remember the promise you gave to God when you were a baby...
This is crazy talk.
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Old 13th February 2018, 11:09 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
That's the truth...
Oh dear. So you genuinely think every single one of the 7 billion human beings on this planet believes the same religious stuff you believe but, for no adequately explored reason, everyone except you pretends not to believe it.

Please don't take this the wrong way but there is a very clear parallel here with another poster on this forum who firmly believes that every single person in the world hears his personal thoughts but, for no adequately explored reason, everyone pretends they can't hear him.
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Old 13th February 2018, 11:19 AM   #573
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I'm starting to get the impression that our OP isn't any kind of religious scholar at all...
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Old 13th February 2018, 12:39 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Remember the promise you gave to God when you were a baby...
This is crazy talk.
And he's constantly trying to derail this thread.

I'd say deliberately "crazy". Emred uses different crazy-like styles here and other forums of the Xiansphere while he communicates in a completely different fashion in forums in Turkish (where he can be reached and get beaten).

I can safely say that he wrote down his/her thoughts not to become "famous" but to remember them, otherwise he'd be another ranting member who meanders and changes constantly her/his mind. Writing that down has given her the coherence she lacks.

[I'm using the pronoun "o" in this thread]
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Old 13th February 2018, 12:42 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I'm starting to get the impression that our OP isn't any kind of religious scholar at all...
A Christian missionary? This emred person has a knack to make of Islam a laughing stock.
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Old 13th February 2018, 01:49 PM   #576
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Mod WarningDo not continue to spam links to one's personal blog. If you have linked to it before, people who wish to view it will be able to find it. Continuing to post links to one's blog will result in further mod actions.
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Old 13th February 2018, 02:13 PM   #577
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I'm reading the Koran again, don't know how long. The Muhammed Ali translation from 1951, in a green volume, with a long introduction.

Chap. 1 page 3

The Opening has for its last line (7):

"Not those upon whom wrath is brought down, nor those who grow astray."

The last line refers respectively to the Jews and the Christians, according to Ali, who is something of an authority. note 10, page 5.

What strikes me about this is that the very essential opening prayer contains very little except an explicit rejection of two other religions.

It's a little like saying "Thank God I wasn't born a woman" or something.

Every time you pray. Is that incorrect?

I'm not sure Islam is an improvement over polytheism, given that polytheism might be murkier and more tolerant, but that's not my point.

My question is, is that the sense for people who recite it?

Last edited by calebprime; 13th February 2018 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:42 PM   #578
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
And he's constantly ".]


I'm not the writer on the link's forum you gave us. Someone published my article in the forum.

By the way, that my article was also published in that book:

https://www.odakitap.com/yasamin-ici.../9789758727056

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 13th February 2018 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:49 PM   #579
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
I'm reading the Koran again, don't know how long. The Muhammed Ali translation from 1951, in a green volume, with a long introduction.

?
Don't read the interpreter's notes and commentaries. Only read the Koran.



http://quranix.org/1#163
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:06 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't read the interpreter's notes and commentaries. Only read the Koran.
I'm confused. So you're allowed to interpret and comment on the Qu'ran, but others aren't?
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:12 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't read the interpreter's notes and commentaries. Only read the Koran.



http://quranix.org/1#163
Don't write bald simple-minded things in response.

Your posts are terrible.
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:37 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I'm confused. So you're allowed to interpret and comment on the Qu'ran, but others aren't?
He says he reads the Koran. I'm just saying do it right.

Read the translation. Not the interpretation.
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:50 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
He says he reads the Koran. I'm just saying do it right.

Read the translation. Not the interpretation.
Morbid Curiosity, What is the "right" way to read your storybook?

I expect to be disappointed in the reply.
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Old 13th February 2018, 05:58 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Read the translation. Not the interpretation.
You didn't answer my question. You are interpreting the Qu'ran for us here. You seem to want us to read and react to those interpretations Yet you don't want any other interpretations read. I'm asking you to reconcile that.
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Old 13th February 2018, 10:40 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I'm not the writer on the link's forum you gave us. Someone published my article in the forum.
Ok, have it your way, if you want .
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Old 14th February 2018, 05:24 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Christian unitarians and Christadelphians believe Jesus was human/prophet. Despite the false Injils.

They didn't turn their backs on their inner/genetical verses.
What are you on about. The Quran clearly says at surah 5.18 that in the time of Muhammad both Jews and Christians thought they were all sons of God.

But Muhammad the blasphemer, who made up a religion to suit is own purposes. Denied their divinity and said. "nay yea are but men".
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Old 14th February 2018, 06:08 AM   #587
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Quote:
There are differing interpretations for verses 6 and 7. The phrase "the Path journeyed by those upon whom You showered blessings" is usually seen as referring to Muslims. The phrase "those who made themselves liable to criminal cognizance/arrest" (more clearly translated as "those who have incurred Your wrath") is usually seen as referring to the Jews and the phrase "those who are the neglectful wanderers" (more clearly translated as "those who have gone astray") is seen as referring to the Christians.[13] The Quran: An Encyclopedia, authored by 43 Muslim and non-Muslim academics says, "The Prophet interpreted those who incurred God’s wrath as the Jews and the misguided as the Christians".[14]

Australian pastor in linguistics and theology Mark Durie says,

To be genuine and effective, reconciliation between Muslims and those they refer to as 'People of the Book' (Jews and Christians), requires that Al-Fatihah and its meaning be discussed openly. That devout Muslims are daily declaring before Allah that Christians have gone astray and Jews are objects of divine wrath, must be considered a matter of central importance for interfaith relations. This is all the more so because the interpretation of verse 7 which relates it to Christians and Jews is soundly based upon the words of Muhammad himself. As Al-Fatihah is the daily worship of Muslims, and represents the very essence of Islam itself, the meaning of these words cannot be ignored or glossed over.[15]

Confirmation.

Our Fadda in Heaven
Huge be your name
Your Kingdom come, yours!
not Allah's
not Jehovah's
not the God of those horrible people who piss upstream!


Ok, a religion's origin in strife is not necessarily a reason to dismiss it.

But perhaps it explains something of the tone.


So far, it's my impression that M. wrote the Qu'ran over 23 or so years, adding bits to already written bits as it occurred to him.

Proust made a similar monumental effort, and his book is better.

Last edited by calebprime; 14th February 2018 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 14th February 2018, 07:51 AM   #588
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
He says he reads the Koran. I'm just saying do it right.

Read the translation. Not the interpretation.
Can you read Arabic? If not which translation do you use? Because according to many Muslims you cannot understand what the Quran says in any translation, you can only know what it says if you read it in Arabic.

This means there are a lot of people calling themselves Muslims who, being unable to read Arabic, are deluding themselves that they understand Islam.

Personally I think this is nonsense and some of the English translations are good enough to know what the Quran says. Especially if you do as I do and compare several of them.
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Old 14th February 2018, 09:05 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
He says he reads the Koran. I'm just saying do it right.

Read the translation. Not the interpretation.
There isn't any way of "doing it right" since the koran is wrong to start with.
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Old 14th February 2018, 11:53 AM   #590
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chapter 2 -- The Cow

First, we've had The Opening, which is said to be the essence of the Q, these 7 lines ending in "not a Jew, not a Christian."

Now we have a longer attack on the Jews and their supposed idolatry.

Any pretense of fairness is abandoned, both by M., and by the commentary.

unkind words for all unbelievers, corruptions of supposedly unchanging text.

The supposed Covenant was actually with Allah.

The bad people, jews etc. -- at Resurrection they will get what's coming to them -- "the most grievous chastisement".

Interfaith seems clearly impossible to me.
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