Merged: Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I think you are not one of the millions of Americans who hunt for food. Remember in a world of no money necessities are free and more.

That's your assertion certainly. You've never once been able to adequately explain how this will be organised.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I think you are not one of the millions of Americans who hunt for food. Remember in a world of no money necessities are free and more.

no, I'm not, but what is your point? People who do hunt don't do it because its cheap or free. You know less about hunters than you know about human nature and economic theory, somehow.

I do bake my own bread, not because I don't have access to bread at the store.

[bruto]

I am not sure where Gaetan's hunted food is free. Here in New England, hunting is common but very expensive. Permits, equipment, lost labor time, transportation, processing, etc., all make wild caught meat more expensive than what you buy at the supermarket. People do it for sport, recreation, and the real or imagined benefits of wild animal meat that cannot be found commercially. Of course there are people who try to hunt illegally, and some succeed but the cost is very high if they're caught, and policing is pretty strict.

In parts of the world, such as Africa, poaching and free range hunting occur with great frequency, and meat so obtained is free to those who decide to eat it rather than selling it, but the cost is very high in other ways, with some animals in danger of extinction, many animals suffering, people endangered, gamekeepers assassinated, and so on. I would not count that as a desirable outcome either.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by bruto

I am not sure where Gaetan's hunted food is free. Here in New England, hunting is common but very expensive. Permits, equipment, lost labor time, transportation, processing, etc., all make wild caught meat more expensive than what you buy at the supermarket. People do it for sport, recreation, and the real or imagined benefits of wild animal meat that cannot be found commercially. Of course there are people who try to hunt illegally, and some succeed but the cost is very high if they're caught, and policing is pretty strict.

In parts of the world, such as Africa, poaching and free range hunting occur with great frequency, and meat so obtained is free to those who decide to eat it rather than selling it, but the cost is very high in other ways, with some animals in danger of extinction, many animals suffering, people endangered, gamekeepers assassinated, and so on. I would not count that as a desirable outcome either.

Here in Texas, land of the free, it's not free to hunt anything other than wild boar. But even that is going to cost money. Guns and ammo, of course, are not free. In Gaetan's world, of course, they would be non-existent, unlike the wild boars, which will run free and destroy crops with nobody there to shoot them. But what the actual hell, those crops were free anyways, so it doesn't matter.

Billions are lost to feral hogs in the US. Do the hogs stop destroying those crops if there is no value to them? Does the loss no longer happen? How does any of this work? This is yet another problem that Gaetan will not address. Yes, there is a money value, but it can also be expressed in crop yields, lost time, or lost resources. Money is just an expression of all of those factors.

[Jack by the hedge]

I suspect a miscommunication. Gaetan probably did not literally mean "hunt" in its usual sense of shooting animals (after all, in Gaetanworld that is not food, it's murder) he likely meant people who struggle to afford enough food.

Take away the difficulty of paying and that problem disappears. And all the people who work to produce and deliver that food will keep working hard for no perceptible benefit because Gaetan says so, and everyone will only take the basic minimum of what they need because Gaetan says so, so don't worry that the shelves will be stripped bare overnight.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

I suspect a miscommunication. Gaetan probably did not literally mean "hunt" in its usual sense of shooting animals (after all, in Gaetanworld that is not food, it's murder) he likely meant people who struggle to afford enough food.

Take away the difficulty of paying and that problem disappears. And all the people who work to produce and deliver that food will keep working hard for no perceptible benefit because Gaetan says so, and everyone will only take the basic minimum of what they need because Gaetan says so, so don't worry that the shelves will be stripped bare overnight.

One question he has never answered, in a long line of questions, is if he would take a used Tesla over a brand new one. I'm guessing he wouldn't as he "deserves" a new one.

He has also, as far as I can tell, ever worked providing services for the poor. I'm not saying the wealthy are immune to this, but people take what they want, not what they need.

As for not hunting for food, I will admit sometimes it's hard to find a filet mignon properly wrapped in bacon at my local food vendor. The struggle is real. Which goes back to the first question, what food do you eat as a treat, that wouldn't become your go-to if money was no object?

[Gaetan]

i don't mean hunting in the literal sense i meant it in the sense beg

[Jack by the hedge]

Right. You mean people who have insufficient begging from people who have more than the minimum they need. And you imagine a world where they just take stuff instead.

It's not a world without money. It's a world without property rights.

[Gaetan]

The media should stop spreading information about the pharmas vaccine that would be 95% or 100% effective because they are falsehoods to raise the price of shares and sell them for a profit. The truth is that a vaccine against Covid is not at all effective, 0%, since you have to be vaccinated every 4 months with a product that gives Alzheimer's or Parkinson's.


The Chinese treat people with influenza with plants and vitamins, and they have 1,000 times fewer deaths. To have an optimum intake of vitamin C, an elderly person should eat a dozen oranges per day and to have a minimum intake of vitamin D, the person should spend at least 20 minutes per day in the sun with their arms uncovered, so these are two essential elements for immunity and it is not the noodles with tomato sauce and the little cake that we give to the elderly with a worn out digestive system that are going to be useful to them. They have to take supplements.


For doctors, all plants or vitamins are useless since they are not products that pharmas can patent and resell at a high price. Our doctors are trained by a corrupt system to sell pharmaceutical drugs that kill huge numbers of people. You take like sleeping pills, they cause between 300,000 and 500,000 deaths in the United States per year, twice as many as covid, why doesn't the media count them one by one?


If you do your studies you will find that the health and containment measures against covid are going and have caused more deaths than doing nothing. Older people are the victims of a corrupt health care system that leads them to suffering and death.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Right. You mean people who have insufficient begging from people who have more than the minimum they need. And you imagine a world where they just take stuff instead.

It's not a world without money. It's a world without property rights.

you are the owner of the free stuff you get and the **** you make out of your food.

[Jack by the hedge]

In a world where nobody owns anything you can't own a Tesla, Gaetan.

And that stuff you post about medicine is crazy nonsense.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

you are the owner of the free stuff you get and the **** you make out of your food.

Fantastic, so whomever gets to the free stuff first owns it. Generally that would be those producing that stuff. Now, how do you get them to transfer their ownership of said stuff to you?

[bruto]

Vaccine conspiracy baloney, I see. I presume Gaetan has some actual reputable data to prove his far-out theories?

Its OK with me though if he skips the vaccine and goes with the Chinese medicines. Limited supplies and all the more to others. If he wants to fry it's fine with me.

Staying in the sun with one's arms uncovered around here will not cure you of much except life. If this were not the case, the homeless would not be dying. Gaetan, you should probably try to wrap whatever brain you are using around the concept that there are places that become very cold in winter.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

i don't mean hunting in the literal sense i meant it in the sense beg

Um, I should have guessed you were using a word with a definition stretched past usefulness.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

you are the owner of the free stuff you get and the **** you make out of your food.

Sorry, but in your world, there is no ownership. No exclusive control of your property. It must be used to benefit society. Your land must be farmed and the fruits of those labors will be taken by others, who have done nothing to produce those fruits. Your factory must produce Gaetan approved merchandise, and that merchandise will also be seized. Failure to do so, and the items will be seized. It's not ownership.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For doctors, all plants or vitamins are useless since they are not products that pharmas can patent and resell at a high price. Our doctors are trained by a corrupt system to sell pharmaceutical drugs that kill huge numbers of people. You take like sleeping pills, they cause between 300,000 and 500,000 deaths in the United States per year, twice as many as covid, why doesn't the media count them one by one?

Why does my doctor have me on an Aspirin regimen and not some pharmaceutical? I've seen his credentials, he was trained at the highest corrupt schools, and even made the cover of some medical mag. Shouldn't he be pushing some statin or something? Or is he in the pocket of Big Generic, Big Store Brand?

Also, where did you get your medical degree? My doc got his from Stanford.

[Little 10 Toes]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The media should stop spreading information about the pharmas vaccine that would be 95% or 100% effective because they are falsehoods to raise the price of shares and sell them for a profit. The truth is that a vaccine against Covid is not at all effective, 0%, since you have to be vaccinated every 4 months with a product that gives Alzheimer's or Parkinson's.

Please provide evidence of everything.

Did you know that you are wrong? Of course not. You open your mouth without researching. Some people would call you a liar due to your untruths.

From the US Department of Health and Human Services:

Quote:

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/expl...eed/index.html

What are you doing to make these products affordable for Americans?
The Administration is committed to providing free or low-cost COVID-19 countermeasures to the American people as fast as possible. Any vaccine or therapeutic doses purchased with US taxpayer dollars will be given to the American people at no cost.

From the BBC:

Quote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54027269
In the UK, mass distribution will be via the NHS health service. Student doctors and nurses, dentists and vets could be trained to back up existing NHS staff in administering the jab en masse. Consultation is currently under way.

Other countries, such as Australia, have said they will offer free doses to their population.

People receiving vaccines via humanitarian organizations - a vital cog in the global distribution wheel - will not be charged.

Do you even know how vaccinations work or how long they last? Of course not. Had you done some research you would.

From the The Immunisation Advisory Centre in New Zealand:

Quote:

https://www.immune.org.nz/vaccines/e...-effectiveness

Duration of protection by vaccine

Disease -- Estimated duration of protection from vaccine after receipt of all recommended doses 1,2

Pertussis(whooping cough) -- 4-6 years
Diphtheria -- Around 10 years
Tetanus -- 96% protected 13-14 years, 72% >25 years
Polio -- >99% protected for at least 18 years
Haemophilus influenzae type B -- >9 years to date
Hepatitis B -- >20 years to date
Measles -- Life-long in >96% vaccines
Mumps -- >10 years in 90%, waning slowly over time
Rubella -- Most vaccinees (>90%) protected >15-20 years
Pneumococcal -- >4-5 years so far for conjugate vaccines
Human papillomavirus -- >5-8 years to date
Varicella -- One dose - unknown; Two doses >14 years to date

[Table has been edited and reformatted to fit here]

Returning to your post:

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The Chinese treat people with influenza with plants and vitamins, and they have 1,000 times fewer deaths. To have an optimum intake of vitamin C, an elderly person should eat a dozen oranges per day and to have a minimum intake of vitamin D, the person should spend at least 20 minutes per day in the sun with their arms uncovered, so these are two essential elements for immunity and it is not the noodles with tomato sauce and the little cake that we give to the elderly with a worn out digestive system that are going to be useful to them. They have to take supplements.

From The Lancet:

Quote:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...163-X/fulltext

Influenza-associated excess respiratory mortality in China, 2010–15: a population-based study

Discussion
We estimated that 88 100 influenza-associated excess respiratory deaths occurred in mainland China during an influenza season, corresponding to 8·2% of annual respiratory deaths. Accordingly, the mean all-age excess respiratory mortality rate in mainland China of 6·5 (95% CI 6·3–6·8) per 100 000 person-seasons fell within the estimate for the Western Pacific region reported in a global study (95% credible interval 3·6–7·5 per 100 000 individuals), despite differences in modelling approaches. Our estimate was also similar to estimates previously published in other countries or regions or cities; eg, our point estimate of the overall influenza-associated excess respiratory mortality rate was similar to that reported for Hong Kong (6·3 per 100 000 person-years), higher than those reported in Yancheng, a subtropical city in eastern China (4·6 per 100 000 person-years), the USA (3·6 per 100 000 person-seasons), and Hefei, a subtropical city in China (2·7 per 100 000 person-years), and lower than that reported in western Kenya (10 per 100 000 person-years). Influenza virus infections might not only cause respiratory deaths, but also lead to deaths by triggering or exacerbating underlying chronic conditions such as cardiovascular diseases. Therefore, the estimated excess respiratory deaths in this study only reflected a fraction of all influenza-associated deaths. [Inline footnote links removed.]

12 oranges a day? Ah, it comes clear. You are an agent for Big Orange. And I notice you're making up things again.

From the World Health Origination:

Quote:

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...46123.pdf?ua=1 Top of page 158 of the document. Section 7.6.4

Elderly people frequently have low plasma ascorbate values and intakes lower than those in younger people, often because of problems of poor dentition or mobility (86). Elderly people are also more likely to have underlying subclinical diseases, which can also influence plasma ascorbate concentrations (see Chapter 8 on antioxidants). It has been suggested, however, that the requirements of elderly people do not differ substantially from those of younger people in the absence of pathology which may influence absorption or renal functioning (82). The RNIs for the elderly are therefore the same as those for adults (45mg/day).

Let the fairy tale continue:

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For doctors, all plants or vitamins are useless since they are not products that pharmas can patent and resell at a high price. Our doctors are trained by a corrupt system to sell pharmaceutical drugs that kill huge numbers of people. You take like sleeping pills, they cause between 300,000 and 500,000 deaths in the United States per year, twice as many as covid, why doesn't the media count them one by one?

This is the third time that you have tried using this "excuse". Why don't you take the time to go back and read the reports? Why don't you take the time to read the replies that show you are wrong?

Originally Posted by Gaetan

If you do your studies you will find that the health and containment measures against covid are going and have caused more deaths than doing nothing. Older people are the victims of a corrupt health care system that leads them to suffering and death.

Really? What studies have you done? That's right you haven't or you would produce them. You will find that the health and containment have saved lives.

Why do you continue to lie?

I publicly ask you to produce evidence that doing nothing has caused more deaths that the current health and containment measures. Will you? No you won't. You will change the subject as soon as you get called out on providing evidence. Your arguments are not arguments. They're opinions. And not even good opinions.

You remind me of the homeless people that I run into when I visit downtown babbling incoherently at anything, having conversations with themselves. At least they provide entertainment.

[bruto]

The suggestion that doing nothing is more effective than taking measures against Covid is outrageously, demonstrably preposterous.

It takes only a little research and a small modicum of intelligence to find that this is entirely false, and if anyone were fool enough to take the statement as advice, criminally stupid.

I would for example suggest that one compare the rate of Covid infections and deaths between South Dakota and Vermont.

A certain degree of crackpottery is to be expected here, but that stretches the boundary of the damnably false.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes

12 oranges a day? Ah, it comes clear. You are an agent for Big Orange. And I notice you're making up things again.

Ah yes, Agent Orange. He bought into the lies of Sunkist.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-drink/283579/

Honestly, it's a interesting story. Orange juice propaganda.

We both know that Gaetan isn't going to read what you wrote. Too long, and his sleep deprived mind can't handle it.

[Gaetan]

People should be wary of any experimental vaccines we are offered and ask questions before getting vaccinated. It is possible that they cause serious health problems 1,000 times worse than catching Covid. These vaccines have not been tested in the long term nor in the short term. The media will not denounce this filth that puts people's lives in danger for fear of feeding the so-called conspirators and seeing the state's anti-Covid advertising funds cut off. The more it goes, the more corruption. Money cost lifes.

[Little 10 Toes]

Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes

[snip]
You will change the subject as soon as you get called out on providing evidence. Your arguments are not arguments. They're opinions. And not even good opinions.

Can I get my $1.000.000 now?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

It is possible that they cause serious health problems 1,000 times worse than catching Covid.

It's also possible that it will make hair grow back, cure insomnia, and make you taller.

I doubt that the vaccine has a death rate of 20%.

Quick question, a man with your scientific learning, how are you not gainfully employed in the medical field? That might help you solve your cash flow problems.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

These vaccines have not been tested in the long term nor in the short term.

Well the virus hasn't existed for that long so I guess the long term claim, though pointless, isn't actually false, but the short term claim is just a flat out lie.