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Old 5th October 2013, 04:53 PM   #201
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Thanks!

Page 7, paragraph 3, the judge appears to say, "Neils Harrit is even offensive in the press".
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Old 5th October 2013, 06:37 PM   #202
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I can't download this. Can someone (Orphia maybe) pull out some relevant parts and post them here?
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Old 5th October 2013, 06:51 PM   #203
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This is page 7:

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Old 5th October 2013, 09:46 PM   #204
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You know the joke... If you speak three languages you're trilingual, if you speak two languages you're bilingual, if you speak one languiage you're American. Let me try again orphia, can you print out in the only language I know any highlights of this case? I would put this through google translate but it's a photo, not copyable.
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Old 5th October 2013, 10:30 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
...can you print out in the only language I know any highlights of this case? I would put this through google translate but it's a photo, not copyable.

Here's an OCRed version you can put through Google Translate.
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Old 6th October 2013, 12:23 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thanks!

Page 7, paragraph 3, the judge appears to say, "Neils Harrit is even offensive in the press".
The Danish word "offensiv" means to be an attacker or aggressor. Apparently, Harrit has been quoted calling a colleague something similar to a retard in a previous article.

Also worth noting that Harrit is not a real Professor, according to this document, but "Lektor", which seems to translate into "Assistant Professor".
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Old 6th October 2013, 12:27 AM   #207
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I spotted a handful of typos by the way, so if Google has problems this may be the reason.
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Old 6th October 2013, 12:42 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by AsbjornAndersen View Post
The Danish word "offensiv" means to be an attacker or aggressor. Apparently, Harrit has been quoted calling a colleague something similar to a retard in a previous article.

Also worth noting that Harrit is not a real Professor, according to this document, but "Lektor", which seems to translate into "Assistant Professor".

Hannibal Lektor?

Seriously, though, in American universities, a "lecturer" (literal translation) ranks even lower than an assistant professor.
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Old 6th October 2013, 05:09 AM   #209
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What is Harrit's CV? This should be on record... no? Is he a professor? In what study? Or retired? etc. He's not a physicist or an engineer but I've seen him go on about the physics of what happened as if he was an authority.
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Old 6th October 2013, 06:16 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
What is Harrit's CV? This should be on record... no? Is he a professor? In what study? Or retired? etc. He's not a physicist or an engineer but I've seen him go on about the physics of what happened as if he was an authority.
It gets muddy... The official homepage for Copenhagen University lists him as "Professor Emeritus" but also "Lektor" elsewhere. One of the major newspapers calls him "Lektor" as well. The court room paper calls him Retired "Lektor".

Nielsharrit.org (which is made by truthers) calls him Doctor.

Could it be that he has a doctorate but is/was only employed as an Associate Professor?
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Old 6th October 2013, 12:11 PM   #211
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He's a 'Licentiate', a degree that was replaced by the Ph.D. around 1990, in chemistry.
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Old 6th October 2013, 01:17 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
He's a 'Licentiate', a degree that was replaced by the Ph.D. around 1990, in chemistry.
[OT]Wasn't the Licenciate replaced by the Master? I have an old portuguese Licenciatura, and the equivalent is a Master. The same with the german Diplom.[/OT]
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Old 6th October 2013, 02:15 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
[OT]Wasn't the Licenciate replaced by the Master? I have an old portuguese Licenciatura, and the equivalent is a Master. The same with the german Diplom.[/OT]
As I understand it, it varied by country.
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Old 6th October 2013, 02:29 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thanks!

Page 7, paragraph 3, the judge appears to say, "Neils Harrit is even offensive in the press".
Actually, the phrase "Nielss Harrit er selv offensiv i pressen" would mean something like "Nielss Harrit is himself active in the press (media)". "Offensiv" in Danish means something like "on the offense" or "active", rather that "offensive" as in "insulting".
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Old 7th October 2013, 01:23 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Hawk one View Post
Actually, the phrase "Nielss Harrit er selv offensiv i pressen" would mean something like "Nielss Harrit is himself active in the press (media)". "Offensiv" in Danish means something like "on the offense" or "active", rather that "offensive" as in "insulting".
Correct, in the context it is written in the judgment, it's about how active Harriet himself is in the press, not that he writes or says anything offensive. Harrit is actually very "trained" and always keeps his public appearances at a sober level, although often completely nuts.

Harrit is an associated professor, in Danish that is not a professor, but a Lektor. A professor is the highest "rank" at Danish Universities, "lektor" is second, followed by "adjunkt".

The language spoken at Danish Universities is of course Danish, but quite often English is even more used than Danish and the homepages of the universities are also written in both Danish and English. That is why Harrit is listed as both a professor (English) and as a lektor (Danish)
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Old 9th October 2013, 01:16 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Hawk one View Post
Actually, the phrase "Nielss Harrit er selv offensiv i pressen" would mean something like "Nielss Harrit is himself active in the press (media)". "Offensiv" in Danish means something like "on the offense" or "active", rather that "offensive" as in "insulting".
Thank you!

What was the judge's point there?
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Old 9th October 2013, 09:11 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Go figure, Harrit has appealed the decision to the High court. Apparenly he desperately want to pay more than $3000 in court costs...
Anyway if he wins he will claim that the court supports his theory and if he loses he will say that the court is part of complot.
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Old 10th October 2013, 02:50 AM   #218
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Welcome to the forum, Degeneve.
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Old 10th October 2013, 08:16 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Thank you!

What was the judge's point there?
There is a difference in Denmark between publicly promoting your opinions/beliefs or keeping them to yourself.

If you keep your opinions/beliefs to yourself, you should also expect that no one in the media attacks, ridicule or in other ways makes references to you and your Opionions/beliefs.

On the other hand, which is the case here, Harrit must tolerate that others also have a public opinion on his ideas and beliefs, since Harrit is actively promoting them in public.

The judge further states that calling Harrit nuts is the journalists own opinion and as a comment to another article, and the journalist's freedom of speech is more important than Harrits feelings.
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Old 10th October 2013, 08:47 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Welcome to the forum, Degeneve.
Thank you. I have found it a couple of weeks ago and it is very interesting.

And I apologise for my broken English. I hope it is not too hard to understand...
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Old 10th October 2013, 10:00 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Thank you. I have found it a couple of weeks ago and it is very interesting.

And I apologise for my broken English. I hope it is not too hard to understand...
Welcome, we have posters who have writ in English they're hull livers and steel git it rong.
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Old 10th October 2013, 01:52 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Anyway if he wins he will claim that the court supports his theory and if he loses he will say that the court is part of complot.
Ah, the Citizen Kane solution.
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Old 10th October 2013, 03:46 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
There is a difference in Denmark between publicly promoting your opinions/beliefs or keeping them to yourself.

If you keep your opinions/beliefs to yourself, you should also expect that no one in the media attacks, ridicule or in other ways makes references to you and your Opionions/beliefs.

On the other hand, which is the case here, Harrit must tolerate that others also have a public opinion on his ideas and beliefs, since Harrit is actively promoting them in public.

The judge further states that calling Harrit nuts is the journalists own opinion and as a comment to another article, and the journalist's freedom of speech is more important than Harrits feelings.
Thanks very much. You explained it well.
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Old 10th October 2013, 04:01 PM   #224
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I suppose when you become a public *celebrity* you have to be able to take all manner of criticism... but it's not cool when you are a public persona to act like a common person and you need to pretty much take what the public doles out. Bummer eh?
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Old 10th October 2013, 07:33 PM   #225
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I'd love to think Harrit is a crybaby ***** who got his feelings hurt but... I think it's closer to what you said above about attention whoring and being a lot cheaper than ads on taxis and in Times Square. Probably more effective too. lol
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Old 11th October 2013, 07:43 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Justin39640 View Post
I'd love to think Harrit is a crybaby ***** who got his feelings hurt but... I think it's closer to what you said above about attention whoring and being a lot cheaper than ads on taxis and in Times Square. Probably more effective too. lol

There is absolutely no doubt that Harrit does this for attention. Many of his Danish truther friends have even admitted that the outcome of the case is irrelevant, since they got more attention than they could dream of, by just filing the case.

And then of course, none of them understand law and every ruling going their way is the truth and every ruling going against them, is NWO crushing on the people
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Old 18th October 2013, 10:13 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Its highly unlikely that it would be directly involved lefty.

The allegedly offending statement as published translated into English says this "Why not just invite Niels Harrit and the other fools from 9/11 sceptic community in....[then refers to holocaust deniers]"

From the legal perspective of a defamation action the relevant facts are:
1) An assertion that persons identified as 'from 9/11 sceptic community' are fools;
(Edit: BTW as applicable to this defamation action that means 'are generally regarded as fools')

2) An assertion that N Harrit is already one of 'the fools from 9/11 sceptic community'

To prove defamation Harrit has to show that his reputation has been injured by the publication of the combination of those two assertions.
What you describe as 'whackadoodality' is not likely to enter directly into evidence either in the specific example you give or any other specific aspect of Harrit's published beliefs. The sufficient requirement at law would be to show that:
- The '9/11 community' is generally regarded as 'fools'; AND
- Harrit did align with 'the 9/11 sceptic community'.

...and that does not require either identifying the specific points of his agreement with that community OR testing of the validity of any specific point.

To defend the Harrit claim of defamation the defendants can rely on four likely legal outcomes:
A1) A legal threshold finding that their is no prima facie case - "no case to answer" OR ( actually a subset of that threshold)
A2) A legal finding that the newspaper statement was 'fair comment' so not defamation - however that concept of 'fair comment' is handled in Danish law OR
B) A finding that the '9/11 sceptics community' are generally recognised as 'fools' and that Harrit aligned himself with '9/11 sceptic community' thereby voluntarily associating himself with the established standing of that group as 'fools' OR
C) A finding that defamation did occur but that it caused no injury sufficient to warrant either damages award or punishment - the choice depending on the detailed application of Danish law.

Of those 'B)' is the one we are mostly focussed on. Note that it does not directly relate to Harrit's alleged by you 'whackadoodality' () Or any specific aspect of how he has aligned with the '9/11 sceptic community' The fact that he has so presented himself as supporting the '9/11 community' can easily be demonstrated from multiple statements by Harrit and in the public record. So the key legal need would be to establish the fact that the opinion that the '9/11 sceptic community' is generally regarded as 'fools'.

I don't know the specific requirements of Danish code Law but in the Common Law jurisdictions the test would be 'what does the "reasonable person" think'. And 'reasonable person' is sort of 'the average Joe in the street' or (British version) 'the man on the Clapham omnibus'. The characterisation of that notional 'reasonable person' is well established in case law - again the Danish equivalent will be different but will exist.

And there would be no reasonable doubt that the vast majority of citizens would regard 9/11 truth activists as 'fools' or similar.

So Harrit voluntarily aligned himself with a group already believed to be 'fools' - and it follows that, to the extent that his reputation is damaged and if it is damaged, he brought it on himself. The newspaper comment merely reports the damage but does not cause it. He damaged his own reputation by voluntarily associating himself with 9/11 supporters.

Therefore: is unlikely to

A bit of a final disclaimer: Two words 'sceptic' and 'fool(s)' occur throughout my explanation. The actual Danish words could have slight differences of meaning or nuance - my reference is to a machine translation.

We need to remember that this case, if it proceeds, will proceed in a Court of Law and, irrespective of this one being in Danish jurisdiction, it will not be argued by the farcical parody of logic and argument which we see on this forum. Something that truthers forget as they call for 'further investigations with subpoena powers' - court cases and formal inquiries won't play it by truthers' rules of internet illogic.
So truthers are the skeptics of JREF.
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Old 18th October 2013, 10:55 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
So truthers are the skeptics of JREF.
Only if you completely ignore the post you quoted.
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Old 18th October 2013, 11:03 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
So truthers are the skeptics of JREF.
You could be right. The problem is, there has not been an actual truther on JREF in years.

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Old 18th October 2013, 11:25 AM   #230
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What if someone like Harrit... simply got some dust and published what he (thought he) found? And left it at that? Would his NT conclusion automatically put him over with the truthers and all their associated insane claims? Or would his work be taken seriously... even if flawed, but an honest effort (albeit incompetent)?

He clearly seems to have run to and with the entire mainstream of the truth movement and voices all their (unsupported and unsupportable) claims. So in a sense he HAS made a spectacle of himself and inviting all manner of commentary about his actions and statements.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 18th October 2013, 11:47 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
What if someone like Harrit... simply got some dust and published what he (thought he) found?
"Truthers" will defend it to the end as fact. The Harret/Jones paper is proof of this. They analyzed paint, showed the data that proved it was paint and called it "nano-thermite". "Truthers" only saw the "nano-thermite" claim.

They could have done the same study on dog crap. "Truthers" are only going to see a "hi-tech" explosive.
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Old 19th October 2013, 05:21 AM   #232
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These clowns are nailing their fate in history as charlatans and scientific frauds. It appears to be not innocent mistakes because they've had ample opportunity to retract but appear to dig in. This reminds me of creation scientists. No?
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Old 19th October 2013, 08:28 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
"These clowns are nailing their fate in history as charlatans and scientific frauds.

It appears to be not innocent mistakes because they've had ample opportunity to retract but appear to dig in.

This reminds me of creation scientists.

No?
"
No.

But your comments are probably a good fit for those who consider money and fame to be the motivation.

Is that a good reason for Dr. Harrit to academically, and personally, 'throw himself under the bus'?

Dr. Harrit's work meets the primary scientific requirement of being reproducible, per the Dr. Harrit et al Bentham paper of 2009.

With something as huge as 9/11, tenured, respected scientists have no motivation for telling provable lies about the official conclusions.

Being reproducible, their analysis can be confirmed or denied by followup publications.

If as you say he is a "clown", a "charlatan", or "scientific fraud", can I presume you have a strong proof?

JSanderO, what published findings entitle you to cast such slurs on Dr. Harrit's reputation as an academic, and as a human.

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Old 19th October 2013, 08:29 AM   #234
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Old 19th October 2013, 08:35 AM   #235
DGM
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post

Dr. Harrit's work meets the primary scientific requirement of being reproducible, per the Dr. Harrit et al Bentham paper of 2009.
No it is not. You know this. Why do you keep repeating this lie?

Using information listed in the paper only, what chips would be used to reproduce the study?
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Old 19th October 2013, 03:09 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
... With something as huge as 9/11, tenured, respected scientists have no motivation for telling provable lies about the official conclusions. .... MM
Harrit is a nut on 911 issues. Full blown nut case fantasy claims based on BS. 12 years of failure, and no one can support Harrit's insane claims with evidence. The personification of 911 truth failure, Harrit.

Now Harrit is proved by the court to be an idiot, on 911. Court has spoken, case closed. Who paid the court fees?
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Old 19th October 2013, 04:00 PM   #237
Orphia Nay
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post
No.

But your comments are probably a good fit for those who consider money and fame to be the motivation.

Is that a good reason for Dr. Harrit to academically, and personally, 'throw himself under the bus'?
This is admitting that 9/11 Truth is academic suicide because it goes against logic and reason.

You have said more here about your convictions than you admit to yourself.

No excuses or backtracking now, or you'll just look wilfully dishonest.
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Old 19th October 2013, 05:41 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Miragememories View Post

JSanderO, what published findings entitle you to cast such slurs on Dr. Harrit's reputation as an academic, and as a human.

MM
I don't have to publish anything to know a fake when I see one. Seems like only true believers are buying his line. I'm not.
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Old 19th October 2013, 10:19 PM   #239
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So.. you say the WWE is fake? How many gold medals in Olympic Wrestling do you have???? None??? Well then, what would you know!
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Old 1st July 2014, 09:30 AM   #240
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A date has been set for the appeal case.

Harrit will be back in the courtroom March 12, 2015.
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