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Old 28th January 2015, 09:16 AM   #281
Georgio
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
No. I only posted the images for others' benefit.
Couldn't you also post the copy/paste stuff for others' benefit?
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:17 AM   #282
carlitos
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Feel free.

ETA - Harritt's partner is an anti-Semitic idiot for posting the photos that I shared. I don't need any more evidence. What you are doing is "moving the goalposts." I don't require any more evidence that she is a paranoid loon (i.e., "chemtrails") or an anti-Semite (see what I posted). If you require more evidence, that is your problem. As a 9/11 Truther, I don't expect that you will do any work, research, or even a simple google search. Moreover, I expect and predict that you will pretend not to understand this post, or even more likely ignore it. Whatever.

Last edited by carlitos; 28th January 2015 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:22 AM   #283
Ape of Good Hope
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I'd never heard of the Rothschild family and scanned the Wiki page to see there have been anti-Semitic conspiracies attributed to them so this may be an example of that.


From my post on page 7


Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
ETA - Age Of Truth has a section dedicated to 'elite bloodlines', wherein predictable Rothschild/Zionism tosh can be found:

http://ageoftruth.dk/elite-bloodline-families/

If I were Harrit and Grumme, I'd be wanting to distance myself from this kind of thing...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:32 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post

If I were Harrit and Grumme, I'd be wanting to distance myself from this kind of thing...
I think it might be a bit too late for that ?
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Old 28th January 2015, 09:36 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
I think it might be a bit too late for that ?

Hey, I'm bending over backwards trying not to defame their characters here
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Old 28th January 2015, 10:15 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I expect and predict that you will pretend not to understand this post, or even more likely ignore it.
I understood your post, but I can't respond to it because there isn't anything to respond to as far as I can see. You have stated your view of the evidence and told me in not so many words that that's all you're going to say on the matter. So, yes I suppose I'm going to ignore it - but what else can I do?
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Old 28th January 2015, 10:33 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
... what else can I do?
Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Oystein, you made an accusation of anti-Semitism against an individual - please present a case to support it or retract the accusation. Burden of proof and all that.
Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Thanks for posting the pictures, carlitos.

My view - the first image is anti-Semitic because it uses the word 'Goyim', which I looked up and apparently means anyone who isn't Jewish.

2 - Although I don't think there is anything explicitly anti-Semitic in this, in the context of the above image being posted in the same place it would point in that direction.

3 - (blue ISIS one) I can't see anything anti-Semitic about that image. I doesn't seem to mention Jewish people.

4 - (Syria one) Don't know enough about any of the points to comment. I'd never heard of the Rothschild family and scanned the Wiki page to see there have been anti-Semitic conspiracies attributed to them so this may be an example of that.
The next post that you make should be "Thanks carlitos and Oystein. You make a good point. Harritt and his partner seem to be anti-Semitic conspiracy loons."
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Old 28th January 2015, 11:03 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The next post that you make should be "Thanks carlitos and Oystein. You make a good point. Harritt and his partner seem to be anti-Semitic conspiracy loons."
Oystein didn't do anything helpful and I've already thanked you for posting the pictures I wanted to see.

I should probably say at this point that I'd never heard of Pernille Grumme before today - I knew Niels Harrit had a wife that was involved in protesting but that's all. I've just watched that video of them both and she doesn't seem to speak very good English - maybe she misinterpreted the first image (without it for context I wouldn't have said there was anything anti-Semitic in image 2 or 4 and I didn't see anything in image 3) or maybe she didn't know what 'Goyim' was?

I will indeed say 'You make a good point' once you've actually made it - show me some writing of hers (or Harrit's) that is anti-Semitic. I've already said that I agree with JSanderO that there does seem to be a pattern suggesting anti-Semitism from the initial post by Oystein.
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Old 28th January 2015, 11:37 AM   #289
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If you don't feel that she speaks good English, feel free to research her writing in Danish. Google Translate should be enough for this task. Go on, then. Do something.
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Old 28th January 2015, 11:48 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Oystein didn't do anything helpful and I've already thanked you for posting the pictures I wanted to see.

You didn't thank me either, I helped you with a youtube interview with Harrit and Grumme, with info about the Rothschild CTs, with links to the anti-semitic section of that Age Of Truth CT site, and some reasoning as to why it's not too smart of Grumme to be posting that kind of stuff on Facebook!





Nobody ever thanks me





(Pernille Grumme is also a member of the Age of Truth Facebook group, but you're probably ignoring me so you're not reading this)
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Old 28th January 2015, 12:26 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
You didn't thank me either, I helped you with a youtube interview with Harrit and Grumme, with info about the Rothschild CTs, with links to the anti-semitic section of that Age Of Truth CT site, and some reasoning as to why it's not too smart of Grumme to be posting that kind of stuff on Facebook!
I'm sorry - thank you for that.

carlitos - I am doing something. Well, at least I think I am. I take the position that it's up to the person making the accusation to provide satisfactory proof that it's true. I'm trying to get evidence I'm satisfied with by asking for further clarification, something that shouldn't be a problem if what Oystein is claiming is true, namely that Grumme is anti-Semitic.

I am satisfied that the evidence presented shows a worrying tendency towards being comfortable with reproducing images that have an anti-Semitic slant on Grumme's part but not evidence of anti-Semitism itself on Grumme's part. I'd like to know what she said about the images.
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Old 28th January 2015, 12:42 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I'm sorry - thank you for that.

carlitos - I am doing something. Well, at least I think I am. I take the position that it's up to the person making the accusation to provide satisfactory proof that it's true. I'm trying to get evidence I'm satisfied with by asking for further clarification, something that shouldn't be a problem if what Oystein is claiming is true, namely that Grumme is anti-Semitic.

I am satisfied that the evidence presented shows a worrying tendency towards being comfortable with reproducing images that have an anti-Semitic slant on Grumme's part but not evidence of anti-Semitism itself on Grumme's part. I'd like to know what she said about the images.
We are not mind readers, nor are you. You can only judge a person by their words and actions. Her words and actions are anti-semitic. I, frankly, am not surprised. I see it all the time with 9/11 conspiracists. It started long ago with the "Jews warned to stay home" garbage, and it continues to this day. Not all Truthers are antisemitic. What disturbs me is the acceptance among those that (I am guessing )aren't, of those that are.
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Old 28th January 2015, 12:47 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I'd like to know what she said about the images.
Why not just set up a facebook account ? When you have found out what she says please can you tell me.

It's not an unreasonable request for me to ask.
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Old 28th January 2015, 12:48 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The next post that you make should be "Thanks carlitos and Oystein. You make a good point. Harritt and his partner seem to be anti-Semitic conspiracy loons."
Harrit? I haven't seen Harrit make antisemitic statements. Perhaps I missed something this time?
His being interviewed by a shady outfit doesn't count in my book. We can't simply assume he was aware of the background (if there is an antisemitic background, which I didn't look into).
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Old 28th January 2015, 02:13 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Why not just set up a facebook account ?
Because it isn't my burden of proof, as I've said. I'm not making any claims about this person. I am not claiming that she is anti-Semitic. I am not claiming that she is not anti-Semitic, and indeed I have stated that the re-posting of the first image in the list particularly points in that direction.

I am totally at a loss to understand why my request to post more of her anti-Semitism as further proof against her would be met with such resistance.
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Old 28th January 2015, 02:22 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
I often compare the "truthers" v "truth" situation with the "creationists" v "evolution" argument.

In both situations one side has all the evidence - the other side has nothing.

There is a thread here trying to compare the "best arguments" from both sides of the "truth" discussion. Just as with creationism/evolution it is a false comparison. There is no "truther" argument - no truther "side". BTW that is their own strategic mistake of basing their claim on technical falsehoods such as CD at WTC. Easily disproved in an objective forum. So I would like to see a "truther case" before a US Federal court rather than a Danish one.

Have you read the transcript and judgement for Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District that one is "Intelligent Design v Evolution" tried in the US federal Jurisdiction. Well worthy of a read if you want to see people of the level and style of truthers confronted in the hard objective setting of a court room with cross examination. Simply put 9/11 truth nonsense would be destroyed if anyone tried to defend it in a court scene. It is the last thing any intelligent truthers would want. (Did I just write "intelligent truther" - sorry about the oxymoron )

The big difference however is that imposition of religion is covered by the First Amendment - Lying for 9/11 Truth is not. My knowledge of US Constitution Law is not good enough to go any deeper.

But the big shock to the truther clowns we see around here is that in a Court setting they would not get away with most of the nonsense we allow them to post on this forum. Circling and evasions would put them at risk of "Contempt of Court" and lying would be readily exposed. IIRC that happened with at least one of the religious witnesses in Kitzmiller.



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Old 28th January 2015, 02:39 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
We are not mind readers, nor are you. You can only judge a person by their words and actions. Her words and actions are anti-semitic. I, frankly, am not surprised. I see it all the time with 9/11 conspiracists. It started long ago with the "Jews warned to stay home" garbage, and it continues to this day. Not all Truthers are antisemitic. What disturbs me is the acceptance among those that (I am guessing )aren't, of those that are.
And if her actions include posting anti-Semitic rants by others, those rants become her words, her comments. She's not posting this stuff and then disavowing it by saying "lol, look at this crazy stuff!" She posts nutty chemtrail stuff, it's a fair inference she believes in it- there's no need for her to specifically add her own comment saying so to think she does.
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Old 28th January 2015, 02:47 PM   #298
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Pernille Grumme is perhaps not the worst in antisemitisme that can be found within the Danish truth movement.

One thing is sure though, they pretty much all seem to blame Israel for 9/11 and everything else bad in the World and outright holocaust denial is not uncommon.

Pernille Grumme is Harris partner and has been for years. She was the one who showed Harrit a truther video (9/11 mysteries) and got him started back in 2006.

The video was sent anonymously (she claims it was anonymously, i am not so sure) to Grumme by Brian Flře of the Danish truth movement. Brian Flře is also the one who started the danish petition for a new investigation 6 years ago, there are currently 692 signatures, so moving quite slow.

The funny thing is that Harrit repeatedly says that he saw the video by accident, but Grumme admitted that they sat down and watched it together, after she recieved the video from Brian.
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Old 28th January 2015, 02:51 PM   #299
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FWIW Pernille Grumme appears to have taken the story of the Dark Side of the MoonWP mockumentary as gospel

I'll make no comment on her supposed antisemitism, other than noting she cosigned a letter from Harrit to DR, complaining that 9/11 truthers had been compared to holocaust deniers.
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Old 28th January 2015, 03:04 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Because it isn't my burden of proof, as I've said. I'm not making any claims about this person. I am not claiming that she is anti-Semitic. I am not claiming that she is not anti-Semitic, and indeed I have stated that the re-posting of the first image in the list particularly points in that direction.

I am totally at a loss to understand why my request to post more of her anti-Semitism as further proof against her would be met with such resistance.
When I posted yesterday, I was rather upset. About Pernille, about other truthers that I have seen in recent weeks being frank and free about their hatred of jews. It was the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. I had followed a few of the speeches made there during the afternoon, and I was ... upset.

Had you saud right away that you can't look into her Facebook account when you asked for more examples, Imight not have slapped you left and right like I did. If you could see here posting history, you would not have asked - I simply supposed that you could.
When you told me you could not, I was already too upset.

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Old 28th January 2015, 03:10 PM   #301
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Anti semitismen within the Danish truth movement can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/mtpro.michael?fref=ts

Exsamples:

https://www.facebook.com/mtpro.micha...23441327925583

https://www.facebook.com/mtpro.micha...26687307600985

He posts all the usual silly conspiracy theory stuff and adds his own remarks, always telling the viewer that what he has just posted is the truth and that you will not se this in mainstream media.

Michael Thomsen (Michael G. Jensen) is one of the persons who is organising the Open Mind Conference in Denmark. Harrit spoke at the conference in 2012, and if I am not mistaken he has attended in other years.

http://www.openmindconference.com/sp...-speakers-2012

Michael is also one of the oldest members of the danish truth movement and joined before Grumme and Harrit got involved.
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Old 28th January 2015, 03:11 PM   #302
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Thanks Josarhus and KD for those tidbits - interesting!

Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
FWIW Pernille Grumme appears to have taken the story of the Dark Side of the MoonWP mockumentary as gospel
I adore that film! I would marry it if I could!

Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
...she cosigned a letter from Harrit to DR, complaining that 9/11 truthers had been compared to holocaust deniers.
What is DR?
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Old 28th January 2015, 03:16 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post

What is DR?

National Danish television, somewhat lige ZDF and ARD in Germany.
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Niels Harrit: "I do not actually understand why they fire insulates steel structures. It just slows the heating of the steel by one hour. There must be money in it."
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Old 28th January 2015, 03:32 PM   #304
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@Oystein - You've been so patient with me in the past that I had a suspicion that something might be amiss. I can well understand that after listening to speeches from Auschwitz the last thing you'd be able to do is discuss anti-Semitism with detachment. Hope you're feeling better.
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Old 28th January 2015, 04:04 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Hope you're feeling better.
I've stayed out of this because I don't even bring myself to acknowledge antisemitic behavior.

I've got to know, what does comment mean? Has he come to terms with his disdain of someone that even broaches antisemitism? Is there an acceptable level?

Where is the "feel better"?
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Old 28th January 2015, 05:34 PM   #306
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As wrong as Truthers are... and as ill informed as truthers are... it's not really fair to assume because there are anti semites among them (and for sure there are) that all or most of them are anti semitic. Often interest groups unit around a common interest and this sweeps in all manner of people... and in this case anti semites. But there are plenty of anti semites among the non truthers as well.

It's telling about someone's character and intelligence perhaps... but let's not smear everyone with a broad brush.
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Old 29th January 2015, 02:11 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I don't even bring myself to acknowledge antisemitic behavior.
I think it's much more sensible to view anti-Semitism as a mental illness rather than a political idea, so I think it should be acknowledged (as a mental illness) and once you've done that it makes more sense to discuss it calmly and to try to help the people suffering from it to see that they are suffering from an illness rather than thinking logically about a group of people, namely Jewish people. I would also apply this to race-hate.

Originally Posted by DGM
Where is the "feel better"?
As I said, to the extent that he would be able to discuss anti-Semitism in a detached way without flying into a useless rage.
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Old 29th January 2015, 03:07 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Because it isn't my burden of proof, as I've said. I'm not making any claims about this person. I am not claiming that she is anti-Semitic. I am not claiming that she is not anti-Semitic, and indeed I have stated that the re-posting of the first image in the list particularly points in that direction.

I am totally at a loss to understand why my request to post more of her anti-Semitism as further proof against her would be met with such resistance.
If you have an interest in finding out about pru ? Why not find out for yourself, this way you can find out for yourself rather than disagreeing with what people say without having the evidence you are looking for.

As far as Harrit goes, my opinion is that he has issues. Anyone who thinks they are providing evidence on 911 at a TV licence evasion case is clearly not stable.

This is not an insult to Harrit and is a fact that shows he is deluded. I suspect he has been led down the garden path on more than one occasion especially with his views on 911.
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Old 29th January 2015, 03:11 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
As wrong as Truthers are... and as ill informed as truthers are... it's not really fair to assume because there are anti semites among them (and for sure there are) that all or most of them are anti semitic. Often interest groups unit around a common interest and this sweeps in all manner of people... and in this case anti semites.
This is certainly true - not every 9/11 CTist is at the same time an antisemite. Some speak up against it (I will try to provide an example next time I see one). But there are reasons why antisemites are drawn to 9/11 CTs - their being there is far from a chance event, and therefore...

Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
But there are plenty of anti semites among the non truthers as well.
... this equivocation is essentially false. You make it appear like there is no significant difference, but there is: Antisemites are very probably much more numerous inside 9/11 Truth (that's a guess; statistics difficult to generate), definitely much more vocal (this may in part be due to the subject matter that involves the participation of Middle Easterners and subsequent wars in the region), and, perhaps most importantly, much more accepted than outside 9/11 Truth - just browse any truth forum, FB page, groub etc.

Again some Truthers oppose antisemitism, a few groups probably have policies against it, but there is a strong tenor within the movement that blaming the Jews is very much ok. And before some replies that way: No, blaming "Zionism" is not different from hating Jews.

Also, I reject the notion that it's a mental illness, as that would imply that those suffering from it have diminished reponsibility for their hate speech.
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Old 29th January 2015, 03:59 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
If you have an interest in finding out about pru ? Why not find out for yourself, this way you can find out for yourself rather than disagreeing with what people say without having the evidence you are looking for.
I didn't disagree with anybody - I asked for more evidence to support a claim, which does not represent a tacit disagreement with the claim.

Originally Posted by Oystein
Also, I reject the notion that it's a mental illness, as that would imply that those suffering from it have diminished reponsibility for their hate speech.
I see no other terms in which to understand a position that creates a fictional cabal of and assigns evil characteristics to an enormous group of completely unrelated people.

The question of diminished responsibility is a tricky one. I'm imagining a person who has been successfully treated for this paranoid delusional state. Once they had been treated and were presented with the impossibilty of their ideas then they would certainly have a responsibility to actively refute them, given that the people they will have been blaming for all the evil in the world actually exist rather than being fictional. There's a big difference between doing that and saying, 'It wasn't me, it was the illness.'

I feel contempt for anti-Semitic ideas but only pity for the people who believe they represent the truth.
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Old 29th January 2015, 05:48 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I didn't disagree with anybody - I asked for more evidence to support a claim, which does not represent a tacit disagreement with the claim
You are not really in a position to agree or disagree without seeing what is on pru's facebook. As I have suggested sign up and find out. When you do, post it here so I can see.

My request is no more unreasonable than yours.
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Old 29th January 2015, 06:17 AM   #312
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You are not really in a position to agree or disagree without seeing what is on pru's facebook.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Spanx
As I have suggested sign up and find out. When you do, post it here so I can see.
It's not down to me to prove anything as I have made no claim about her. I'm not sure if you have made a claim about her either, but if not then it isn't your responsibility to prove anything either. It is the responsibility of those claiming she is anti-Semitic to provide a proper case that it is so. This would be equally true for someone claiming she is not anti-Semitic.

If I'd have said, 'She isn't anti-Semitic', then it would be my responsibility to show that. I have offered my opinion on the pictures that Oystein was talking about and by themselves I don't believe they represent a strong enough case for anti-Semitism even though one of the pictures is certainly anti-Semitic. A case for thoughtlessness, perhaps. The other images do not need to be interpreted as anti-Semitic.

I do not think the case has been made out that she is anti-Semitic - that's my claim. And that is quite a different statement to, 'She is not anti-Semitic'. At the moment I think the evidence points towards her being comfortable with reproducing 1 political cartoon that is anti-Semitic, but this could be because of her poor command of English.

Originally Posted by Spanx
My request is no more unreasonable than yours.
It is unreasonable, because I haven't made a claim about her.
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Old 29th January 2015, 06:33 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
...At the moment I think the evidence points towards her being comfortable with reproducing 1 political cartoon that is anti-Semitic, but this could be because of her poor command of English.


It is unreasonable, because I haven't made a claim about her.
The highlighted part is a claim about her

Do you think that my command of English is poor? Are you aware I am not a native speaker?
You base your assessment on a video clip. It shows that she is not extremely fluent in spoken Engish, but you can't conclude from that that she doesn't understand very well written speech.
I sometimes get comments on my written English saying I sometimes write with such subtlety and clarity and use words that even many native speakers might never use actively, that it is hard to believe it's a foreign language to me. And yet, if someone caught me on the street and made an interview with me in English, I'd probably stutter somewhat, search for words, and be less than grammatical, at least during the first 10 minutes, while my brain tunes into the other language. Perhaps you'd then claim "poor command of English" in my case.
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Old 29th January 2015, 06:57 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I didn't disagree with anybody - I asked for more evidence to support a claim, which does not represent a tacit disagreement with the claim.



I see no other terms in which to understand a position that creates a fictional cabal of and assigns evil characteristics to an enormous group of completely unrelated people.
You just essentially argued that 9/11 truthers are mentally ill.


Originally Posted by Georgio View Post

I do not think the case has been made out that she is anti-Semitic - that's my claim. And that is quite a different statement to, 'She is not anti-Semitic'. At the moment I think the evidence points towards her being comfortable with reproducing 1 political cartoon that is anti-Semitic, but this could be because of her poor command of English.
********. Why are you defending this person? I posted evidence, you said it wasn't enough. Now you are questioning her English skills as an excuse? It's a *********** cartoon. You don't need a Masters in English to get it; 9 out of 10 Danes speak English better than you or I.
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Old 29th January 2015, 06:58 AM   #315
Georgio
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You base your assessment on a video clip. It shows that she is not extremely fluent in spoken Engish, but you can't conclude from that that she doesn't understand very well written speech.
Agreed. Lucky I only said 'could be'.

By 'not made a claim about her' I meant I have not made a claim about whether she is or is not anti-Semitic.
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Old 29th January 2015, 07:03 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post



It is unreasonable, because I haven't made a claim about her.
Exactly, you have done pretty much nothing except ask others to show you what they can see. Just like me asking you to join facebook to gather information for me.

As far as my opinion on pru goes, I know she is Harrit's partner and I have seen her on YouTube, I personally think she is barking up the wrong tree and looking for attention just like Harrit. They are never going to change the world to think the way they do. I can only imagine how the world would be with them in charge.
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Old 29th January 2015, 07:07 AM   #317
Georgio
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Why are you defending this person?
I am not defending anybody.

Originally Posted by carlitos
Now you are questioning her English skills as an excuse?
I am not making excuses for anybody. I said 'could be' which it could be.

Originally Posted by carlitos
It's a *********** cartoon. You don't need a Masters in English to get it; 9 out of 10 Danes speak English better than you or I.
Well, I didn't know what 'goyim' was.
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Old 29th January 2015, 07:10 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Exactly, you have done pretty much nothing except ask others to show you what they can see.
That's not nothing, or even pretty much nothing, it is asking for a proper case to be outlined for a very serious acussation from the people making that acussation.

It is nothing like you asking me to join facebook to get the information. You just wanted me to take issue with it so you could say, 'Ah! But that's what you're doing!'

Last edited by Georgio; 29th January 2015 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 29th January 2015, 07:22 AM   #319
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
I am not defending anybody.



I am not making excuses for anybody. I said 'could be' which it could be.
What you are doing is transparent for all to see.

Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
Well, I didn't know what 'goyim' was.
Yeah, let's focus on whether you know what a word means, rather than a photoshop collage with a bunch of stars of David superimposed on Jews, who have been posed in ways to show their sinister laughter and big noses. Typical truther idiocy.
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Old 29th January 2015, 07:24 AM   #320
Spanx
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
That's not nothing, or even pretty much nothing, it is asking for a proper case to be outlined for a very serious acussation from the people making that acussation.

It is nothing like you asking me to join facebook to get the information. You just wanted me to take issue with it so you could say, 'Ah! But that's what you're doing!'
Ok, so let's say one of the other posters here posted up what they said was written on facebook. Let's assume they made it up and painted a very bad picture of Per. Would you believe it ? Or would you check for yourself ?

I guess the answer would be no you wouldn't check because you won't join facebook.
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