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Old 11th April 2016, 01:47 PM   #1
cjnewson88
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Interview with former FBI agent Mark Rossini

This was posted this morning. Pretty much just another view point of the information we already know is likely to be true. I'll post the link below as well as the full article in the spoiler.

http://undicisettembre.blogspot.co.n...gent-mark.html

Undicisettembre: Hi, Mark, and thanks for the time you’re giving us. Would you like to introduce yourself first?


Mark Rossini: As you already know my name is Mark Rossini, I became an FBI agent in 1991, and I started working on terrorism matters in May 1997; I started working on al-Qaeda matters after the embassies were bombed in Nairobi and Tanzania in August 1998. After that I went to Nairobi and spent almost three months there as an acting supervisor on the ground, and when I returned from Nairobi I was sent to the CIA's Alec Station, located within the CIA headquarters building in Langley, Virginia. Alec Station was a station dedicated solely to investigating Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. I was sent there as the representative of the NY FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force known as the JTTF. This is important to note, that I was assigned from FBI NY not FBI headquarters. This was due to the fact that my squad on the NY JTTF was responsible for the investigation of bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. I had this position from from January 1999 until May 2003. In May 2003 I was one of the founding members of the National Counterterrorism Center, and I did that until September 2005.

I guess you want to talk about what happened on Alec Station and what led to 9/11, right?


Undicisettembre: Yes, let’s talk about that. Could 9/11 have been prevented?

Mark Rossini: The 9/11 attacks did not have to happen. The 9/11 attacks happened because of the willful and purposeful non-passage to the FBI of information by the CIA concerning hijackers that had what we call a "Terror Summit" in Malaysia in January 2000. The CIA purposely did not tell the FBI about that meeting nor did they more importantly tell the FBI that two of the people at the meeting, who turned out to be hijackers, had visas to visit the USA. The CIA and the NSA also knew about the travel plans they had to come to America and still did not tell the FBI. If the FBI had been given this information we would have stopped 9/11. A colleague of mine who was with me at the CIA, Special Agent Doug Miller, wrote a draft Central Intelligence Report, known also as a CIR, which is the only official way information is transferred between the agencies, to tell the FBI about the meeting in Malaysia and about these individuals that were there, and the CIA blocked it. To this day no one has ever been held accountable for blocking Doug’s memo from going or for telling me I couldn’t tell the FBI about what Doug tried to send. This is something even the 9/11 Commission neglected to investigate, and I applaud former New Jersey Governor Thomas Kean, who was 9/11 Commission Co-Chairman and who cited this as a failure to pursue and get an answer. There’s so much more about the subject that it would take probably hours to listen to and talk about. There are so many missteps here and willful omissions that it’s criminal. It’s a stain on our society, it’s a stain on our system of justice that three or four key individuals have not been called before a court of law, a Grand Jury or a regular Jury, and been asked “Why did you block his memo?”

Moreover, even if Doug didn’t write his memo, even if Doug and I were never assigned to the CIA, no one asked them “Why did you (Alec Station) on your own not send the information to the FBI?” The question is valid and needs to be asked because everyday information is sent back and forth between the two agencies via a CIR, and I guarantee you there was nothing that was sent between the two agencies before or after 9/11 that was more important than what Doug was trying to send over to the FBI.

And we have to come to understand why that happened. I have many theories, and my first theory that I have been trying to prove is that CIA was on a recruitment operation and they were trying to recruit some of the members of the cell, specifically Khalid al-Mihdhar or Nawaf al-Hazmi [pictured below]. Khalid al-Mihdhar’s father had a home in Sana’a, Yemen, which was the switchboard for al-Qaeda operations around the world and the CIA knew about that since 1998 or according to some rumors since 1996, since the CIA and specifically Alec Station was actively monitoring and investigating al-Qaeda operatives in Kenya. Regardless if it was 1996 or 1998, they purposely did not tell the FBI what was going on at that al-Qaeda switchboard and there is no intention to do so even up until today. It's as if it never existed. Watch the documentary The Spy Factory and the interview of 9/11 Commission member Eleanor Hill. She says bluntly that looking at the NSA was forbidden by the Commissioners. How is that for being a true and transparent society?



The recruitment operation was far more important to the CIA and they didn’t want the FBI, in the personification of my boss John O'Neill, to mess up their operation. Moreover, an arrest by the FBI of Saudi "boys" would have cause great embarrassment to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and that’s a big “no, no” in any Presidential administration, either Bush or Bill Clinton or Obama or Trump or Hillary Clinton, I don't care who is the President. The absolute rule exists since oil came gushing up from a few inches below the sand: “You must not embarrass the Saudis”. It's because they control the oil and they own the balance of the power in the Middle East and that’s the bottom line: our economy and the world economy is tied to oil. The price of the barrel of oil is done in dollars, not in any other currency, and that is because we protect the king of Saudi Arabia and they also protect us by ensuring as the leader of OPEC that the price of a barrel of oil is pegged to the US dollar. As I said before, you must never embarrass them, this is what it is all about, because the FBI would have arrested the Saudi young men and caused large headlines and inquiries by the media and other governments perhaps, and the CIA was afraid they could not control the FBI. No administration would ever want that.

As a country, as a world, as humanity we have to get to the truth about why Doug’s memo didn’t go, we cannot just sit by idly and accept that. Until we do that, we really have no moral standing, nor can we hold our rules, laws and courts as legitimate. We should not and cannot face our citizens and say “We did everything to prevent this, and we are doing everything to protect you,” because we haven’t and we are not.


Undicisettembre: I would like you to elaborate on the reason why they did that. I can’t believe the CIA were so stupid to make such a big mistake on purpose.

Mark Rossini:
It’s not because they were so stupid, but because they had this specific plan of action: to try to recruit somebody in the al-Qaeda cell and not have the FBI interfere. In particular my boss, mentor and friend John O'Neill, whom the people that managed Alec Station despised because they were jealous. Former terrorism "Czar" Richard Clarke, who served under both President Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, said in an interview, which you can easily find online, that on the day Cofer Black became the Director of the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center (CTC), the two chatted after the official meeting to welcome Cofer and Richard Clarke asked Cofer what was the first thing he wanted to address. Per Clarke, Cofer turned to him and said “The only thing that really pisses me off is that we have no sources in al-Qaeda.” If you fast forward from their conversation, to the meeting in Malaysia and the discovery of the travel plans of the terrorists to come to America it would be the perfect opportunity to try to recruit somebody.

We know from the historical record, and as is reported in newspapers, the 9/11 Commission points out the fact that CIA did try to recruit Shakir el-Iraqi, who was the gentleman at the Kuala Lumpur airport who was the "greeter, fixer and expediter" who got them through the airport and hotel rooms. We do know he was approached by Malaysia Special Branch and by CIA to be recruited and he rebuffed the recruitment. So it stands to reason and logic that Alec Station had set their sight on maybe someone in the cell. And two hijackers came to America, unbeknownst to the FBI, and went to stay at the home of an FBI informant and they also had an encounter with Omar al-Bayoumi who was a Saudi agent working in San Diego as a professor.

There’s enough circumstantial evidence to prove that the crime took place of a Willful Omission or Conscious Avoidance of telling the FBI about the meeting in Malaysia and that at least two of the people who attended this "terror summit" had visas to come to the USA. Those FBI cowboys could cause a political stir at the White House and State Department.


Undicisettembre: Generally speaking, how is the relationship between the two agencies? I’m asking this question because I have the impression that former FBI agent Ali Soufan in his book The Black Banners depicts the CIA as the bad guys.

Mark Rossini: Ali and I are very dear friends. I have a lot of respect for CIA and admire the agency greatly, they do tremendous and fantastic work as the FBI does, which you will never hear about. With the exception of 5 people at Alec Station I never worked with brighter and more dedicated people in my life. I wish I worked there. The problem is, and what FBI agents find so frustrating, that the CIA is not interested in a "court of law" or getting to the truth of proving something for court as the FBI is; the CIA is an intelligence gathering organization that is gathering intelligence and yes of course the "truth" in order to assist the President in carrying out his, maybe soon her, agenda and that of the Presidential Administration as a whole. And that’s where and why things get haywire, because there’s a disconnect between the two agencies’, FBI's and CIA's, missions and authorities. In spite of what you think, the CIA provides a vital function in protecting America, but to an FBI agent like me or Ali it’s difficult to understand their mentality. We get evidence, we put people in jail. We don’t have a long term view of the world like who is going to rule a country 60 years from now.

So I agree with Ali, and I understand why he has that feeling. And while Ali had dealings with them in the field they were hiding from him the picture of Khalid and CIA knew Khalid was linked to the meeting in Malaysia but refused to tell him.

Another reason why we must not embarrass the Saudis is that we need to have our air bases there to protect Israel and also maintain the balance of power in the Middle-East, which are two long term vital and strategic goals. As a human being I care and understand these goals and their importance. As an FBI agent, it's not my "portfolio" or mission.


Undicisettembre: What’s your take on the torture? Because as far as I know the CIA used a lot of torture while interrogating people while the FBI did not.

Mark Rossini: Torture is an action and a desire of little weak men. I’ll say it again: torture is an action and desire of little weak men. Torture is a fantasy that is fed down your throat by movies. Torture does not work because it does not get you to truth. It’s just for vengeance fantasies.

It is wrong and it is immoral. A lot of very tough guys sitting on the couch would tell me “What do you mean it’s immoral? These people are immoral, they don’t deserve my morals.” Well. If you want to get down to their level and act like a savage, go right ahead; but I’m not and nor other members of the FBI. We interview people and get in their head and talk to them. Did you ever think perhaps for one second that torturing one of these terrorists is something that they want? It proves their manhood and in their brain they are showing Allah they are withstanding this brutal force to get a greater award in heaven.

“Tough guys” (I say that sarcastically) in a diner drinking coffee don’t think about this. They don't care since they believe they are superior, and they want vengeance on somebody who’s chained up and cannot fight back.

It’s wrong and it’s immoral and it’s repugnant that we even did it. The fact that there are people in my country who think it’s okay to do it and that these people deserve that because they are “evil non-Christian Muslims” makes me not even want to talk to them I cannot even go near them.

It’s just fantasy of small and little men.


Undicisettembre: I agree with you and I remember reading in the book The Longest War by Peter Bergen that you are not getting real information by torturing people because they just tell you the first thing that comes to their mind just to make the torture stop.

Mark Rossini: They will tell you anything you want to hear just to make the torture stop. Look at Ibn Al-Shaikh al-Libi, the guy that was tortured in Egypt. The CIA thought he was not giving them enough information and that he was lying. That the FBI Agent and NYPD detective who were interviewing him were being lied to by him and they were not aggressive enough. So what does the CIA do? They “take over”. He was duct taped onto a wooden board and sent him to Egypt. While he’s laid out tied down with duct tape to the board one tough guy from Alec Station who is a real idiot whispered in his ear “I’m going to go **** your mother.” Does that make you feel tough and big, you little runt?

So they took him to Egypt and tortured him. He said “Oh yes, Saddam is connected to al-Qaeda” just to make the torture stop. And that was used to justify the war in Iraq.


Undicisettembre: In Italy there’s a very widespread myth according to which the Saudis where somehow behind 9/11, either by supporting the terrorists or by letting them do it without interfering. What are your thoughts about this?

Mark Rossini: No, people are losing track. When something is so brutal as 9/11 was, people have a hard time understanding the simplicity of it. A lot of people feel the need to have a larger explanation like that the Saudis had a role in it. No, no, no. No Saudi wanted that to happen, that’s impossible. There were prominent Saudis, royal and non-royal, that were giving money to al-Qaeda affiliated associations and NGOs. But did those people know that money was being used for terrorism or specifically for 9/11? No. But none of them can look me straight in the face to tell me their money was going for something fair either. That’s the real issue. Remember that after 9/11 there were many Saudis in America that the FBI wanted to interview but in the days right after the attacks, when no plane was flying, only one plane was allowed to come and pick them up and take them out of the country before we could talk to them. Because the Saudis are protected.

This kind of action brings people to believe that the Saudi government wanted it to happen, but no one wanted that to happen because no one of these people who gave money knew that this attack was going to happen, not even the hijackers knew about each other and what their role was.

We theorize that not even the “muscle hijackers” who kept the passengers from reacting knew it was a suicide mission, only the pilots knew it was a suicide mission.


Undicisettembre: In your opinion, were there links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden?

Mark Rossini: Not in my opinion but in fact there was not one shred, not one contact: nothing. I want this to be perfectly, perfectly clear. I’m sure there will be some couch potato or keyboard genius saying I’m wrong. Oh, you still want to believe you are right? I’m sorry, you are wrong. There was no connection between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda and bin Laden. Zero. Saddam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. It was a fantasy that was spun by Dick Cheney and the White House in order to push gullible people who were still afraid because of what happened on 9/11 to swallow a ton of ******** and support the invasion of Iraq.



Saddam was an evil man. Saddam had killed people and there’s no question about it, but he did not attack America and he did not have anything to do with 9/11 and he was a Sunni that controlled the Shia country. We went in there and removed a powerful Sunni leader and now we have the mess of a Shia-led country of Iraq aligned and friends with another massive Shia country which is Iran, which has always been seen as the enemy. What genius was asleep at this switch and didn’t think beforehand of what we were doing?

If anyone in Washington DC had half a brain they would have realized that, but they were bent on revenge, getting Saddam’s oil and controlling the whole Middle East. Now we created this “megacountry” and alliance between Iraq and Iran controlled by Shia governments and we have Sunnis who live in Iraq who are oppressed and have come to join ISIS.

I don’t care what ******** a certain network in America wants to spin about how thoughts like mine are wrong and unpatriotic: we have messed it up. And Sunnis in Iraq who have been disenfranchised are now members of ISIS. We created it, we are responsible for it. We created a power vacuum, and had not the brains to realize what we created when we invaded Iraq. The orchestrators of the Iraq illegal invasion are naive, ignorant and small minded people. When the blind lead the blind and slick politicians lead the gullible, this is what happens.

And they tried to shove it down our throats by saying “You’ll see in fifty years that my plan was the smart one.” No it’s not, because people have died right now, and it’s not the sons of the Neocons going to war but the poor slob they put the lie to whose son is going to war.


Undicisettembre: There’s one point I don’t understand. You said that the war in Iraq was done also to get Iraq’s oil. But as far as I know, war costs much more than the oil you can get from the Iraqi wells. So it makes no sense to me.

Mark Rossini: You are right, it makes no sense and the whole thing was a farce, a waste of time and a fraud. It did not have to happen and we will be paying for this for the next one hundred years in blood and economy. It was a wrong move. It was a delusional thought that the Iraqi people would see us as liberators and willfully give us their oil wells so that we could control the world market of oil.

The Neocons also thought they could build Middle East from scratch and control it. It was lead by emotion, not by brain; when you lead by emotion is when you make mistakes.


Undicisettembre: What do you think about the hunt for Osama bin Laden? Could he have been killed before 2011?

Mark Rossini: Perhaps he could have been killed before 2011, but I’m not so sure. I think it was done the correct way and I have no issue on how the Navy SEALs did it, I think it was heroic and that Obama made the right decision. He made the right decision militarily and politically by not informing the Pakistanis we were doing it because there’s no question in my mind that middle or high management of the Pakistani Intelligence Service known as ISI knew that he was there, but they chose to turn a blind eye.



Something we will never understand is the power of Islamic religion and what it means to certain people and how they twist its meaning and they lose sight of what is right and what is wrong. You would have to be blind not to see that someone in the Pakistani military knew that he was in that compound and it shows they did not say anything to us.

He was found not thanks to torture but thanks to interviews and investigation that the CIA did admirably. Admirably! Unequivocally they deserve every accolade in the book for this: for finding him and bringing him to an end.


Undicisettembre: In your opinion was Pakistan shielding him?

Mark Rossini: I think there were certain people in Pakistan who were shielding him, I wouldn’t say the Prime Minister or anyone like that. But I would say certain people at mid-level or lower senior level knew where he was but chose to keep that information suppressed.


Undicisettembre: What do you think about conspiracy theories that claim that 9/11 was an inside job?

Mark Rossini: I have to leave the room if someone says that. I cannot even discuss it for five seconds. There are all these ******** theories about controlled demolition and how the steel couldn’t break and World Trade Center 7.

These people really need to get a life and go back under the rock they came from.

They are just creating confusion and pain. It’s just wrong, trust me.


Undicisettembre: What’s the level of security today in the USA?

Mark Rossini: The level of security is very, very high. But I have an issue with that, I am a little disturbed by that fact that we have not been able to create a single agency that’s responsible for protection. We have not delineated and designed each agency’s role nor have we defined who’s in charge of operations.

In the US we have FBI, Homeland Security, the Military, CIA, NSA, all contributing and at the same time doing their own thing and agenda; we have a lot of kitchens and a lot of chefs. We haven’t yet created one agency that does it all and coordinates every operation. We should create a new agency comprised of the respective agencies’ competencies that deals with terrorism on a national and international level. There is so much more to explain on this, and it could and should become a reality, but I don’t think it will ever happen, since the change would almost be like an earthquake for all the “stakeholders” in Washington, D.C. who cannot agree basically on anything.
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Old 11th April 2016, 02:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Undicisettembre: What do you think about conspiracy theories that claim that 9/11 was an inside job?

Mark Rossini: I have to leave the room if someone says that. I cannot even discuss it for five seconds. There are all these ******** theories about controlled demolition and how the steel couldn’t break and World Trade Center 7.

These people really need to get a life and go back under the rock they came from.

They are just creating confusion and pain. It’s just wrong, trust me.
I guess twoofers can now add Mark Rossini to the gigantic list of people, behind the inside jobby job.
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Old 11th April 2016, 11:53 PM   #3
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The 2 key points I make repeatedly:

1) Interagency LIHOP/LIHOOI probably the genuine big issue - if there still is one; AND

2) Whether they need action or not - the truth movement will NEVER get traction for the political problems whilst ever they lead their strategies by patently false technical claims such as CD.

So AE911Truth is probably the biggest guarantee that the truth movement will not go anywhere.
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:54 AM   #4
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What strikes me as ironic about this interview is how much of what Rossini says is stuff that I think most truthers would agree with - criticism of the CIA's approach, the neocon agenda, major foreign policy screwups, mixed attitudes within ISI - if only they could get their heads out of their arses and stop obsessing with inside job theories.

Dave
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
What strikes me as ironic about this interview is how much of what Rossini says is stuff that I think most truthers would agree with - criticism of the CIA's approach, the neocon agenda, major foreign policy screwups, mixed attitudes within ISI - if only they could get their heads out of their arses and stop obsessing with inside job theories.

Dave
Yes. What's also important - few of "us" would find it surprising OR need to disagree.
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Old 12th April 2016, 05:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
I guess twoofers can now add Mark Rossini to the gigantic list of people, behind the inside jobby job.
He is entitled to his prejudiced opinion as much as anyone.

Being affiliated with the FBI does nothing to enhance the quality of his opinion.
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Old 12th April 2016, 05:44 AM   #7
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Which kind of proves my point.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 12th April 2016, 08:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
He is entitled to his prejudiced opinion as much as anyone.

Being affiliated with the FBI does nothing to enhance the quality of his opinion.
As all 9/11 truth claims are opinions and fantasy. The reality is 19 terrorists did 9/11. Not the remote control failed fantasy, and dumbed down CD with no evidence.

Rossini is right, 9/11 truth claims are BS; his opinion is correct, based on evidence, thus it is a fact; 9/11 truth comes armed with lies, no evidence.
Rossini's comments are not opinion about 9/11 truth, but the truth about 9/11 truth.

Quote:
Rossini - There are all these #%#$% theories about controlled demolition and how the steel couldn’t break and World Trade Center 7.

These people really need to get a life and go back under the rock they came from
The truth, not opinion; facts based on the idiotic lies of CD, and nonsense about 7 WTC.

You might be right about his opinion they could have stopped 9/11... but even your speculation about 9/11 is evidence of the BS theories pushed by 9/11 truth; which have failed for 14 years with a lock on eternity.
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Old 12th April 2016, 09:27 AM   #9
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Rossini alleges that, had the CIA informed the FBI of the intentions and roles of two named AQ operatives that went on to become 9/11 hijackers, then 9/11 would have been prevented.

This assumes (at least) two things:

1. That the information was solid enough to actually induce the FBI into some action that would have prevented these two from boarding the ill-fates planes - by denying them entry to the USA, or by getting them arrested, or by approaching them in any such way that would render them, in the opinion of KSM/Atta/OBL, "too hot" to be eligible for a terrorist operation

2. That AQ, upon realizing that these two operatives are out, would call off the attacks; or, alternatively, that the apprehension of the two would have enabled the FBI to bust the entire operation

I would think that Rossini has considered these two assumptions, explicitly or perhaps unconsciously, when forming his opinion, and I am not calling into question his ability to asses this. Just pointing out the assumptions are implied, and can be debated.
For example, it seems plausible that the operation was meant to be carried out by 20 hijackers (5 on each plane), but one didn't make it (not clear who and why), but the operation went on regardless. Perhaps they would have gone ahead with as little as 16 hijackers left on the roster.
Possibly, there were backups (Moussaoui comes to mind, who is speculated to have been recruited as a replacement for Jarrah).
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Old 12th April 2016, 09:45 AM   #10
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Mark Riebling. Wedge. The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA, 1994
http://www.amazon.com/Wedge-The-Secr.../dp/0679414711

"Drawing on recently declassified documents, a provocative look at the intense and bitter rivalry between the FBI and CIA examines the history of the conflict and assesses its damaging impact on American counterintelligence. 25,000 first printing. Tour."

Remember that FBI Muslim-Bin Laden informant in California in the 90's?
When the FBI lost track of him, they discovered that the CIA had stolen him and sent him to Europe, where he was promptly exposed and killed by AQ.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...-bosnia-n39306
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Last edited by BasqueArch; 12th April 2016 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 12th April 2016, 12:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BasqueArch View Post
Mark Riebling. Wedge. The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA, 1994
http://www.amazon.com/Wedge-The-Secr.../dp/0679414711

"Drawing on recently declassified documents, a provocative look at the intense and bitter rivalry between the FBI and CIA examines the history of the conflict and assesses its damaging impact on American counterintelligence. 25,000 first printing. Tour."

Remember that FBI Muslim-Bin Laden informant in California in the 90's?
When the FBI lost track of him, they discovered that the CIA had stolen him and sent him to Europe, where he was promptly exposed and killed by AQ.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investig...-bosnia-n39306
The "war" between the CIA and the FBI goes back to the days of the CIA's predecessor, the OSS. And much of it is cultural. The FBI has always been "blue collar" guys who went to some school like Fresno State. J. Edgar Hoover especially liked Mormons. Politically, they tended to the "hard right".

OTOH, the CIA was mostly upper class and diverse in its overt politics; anyone from William F. Buckley conservatives to Cord Meyer liberals was welcome. Look at the backgrounds of Donovan, Dulles, Meyer, Angleton.... Ivy Leaguers one and all.

It's amazing how much of history is driven by personal and cultural antipathy and how little political philosophy really counts.
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:52 PM   #12
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The things that must be considered are these:

The CIA was under fire for much of the 1990s. The Aldrich Ames case was a black-eye made worse by the Justice Department insisting that the CIA be investigated by the FBI. This meant a lot of bad blood between the two.

The CIA was also in trouble due to intelligence failures in Iraq in 1991, Somalia in 1993, and later their big failure to update city maps of Belgrade leading to our 1999 bombing of the Chinese Embassy.

This all created an atmosphere of butt-covering. No risks were taken in a profession that is all risk. CIA operations were shut down at the hint of operatives having dealings with anyone with a non-choir boy background.

Compounding all of this was the CIA's basic operational structure at the field level. Field operatives have autonomy (for the most part), passing along information up the pipe-line inconsistently, and over-cautiously depending on their sources. Too often, CIA field agents do not trust their immediate superiors (with good reason sometimes), and route their information through people in the agency that they do trust. This is no way to run a railroad, but it is still how thing s are getting done...and not getting done.

Bottom line: The CIA was a mess.

Meanwhile, the FBI was working under the shadow of Waco and Ruby Ridge. This meant many things the FBI was doing was being needlessly questioned by Congressional oversite committees. This created a risk-averse atmosphere in the FBI mirroring the one at CIA.

Bottom line: The FBI was a mess.

Both the CIA and FBI continue to be inconsistent in their counter-terrorism performance. I point to the Boston and San Bernardino attacks, and the rise of the ISIL.

Americans expect so much from the CIA and FBI, while at the same time placing as many legal obstacles in their way as possible. We got what we asked for.
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
What strikes me as ironic about this interview is how much of what Rossini says is stuff that I think most truthers would agree with - criticism of the CIA's approach, the neocon agenda, major foreign policy screwups, mixed attitudes within ISI - if only they could get their heads out of their arses and stop obsessing with inside job theories.
As I have said many times before, the inside job theories save them any effort at a real debate about the merits or demerits of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, much as the JFK assassination theories were largely intended to short-circuit any debate about Vietnam. If JFK was assassinated by the CIA or LBJ to facilitate expansion of our involvement in Southeast Asia, then there is no need to argue. Pretty much everybody would agree that it was invalid.

It's the intellectually lazy way to oppose our involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Old 30th May 2016, 07:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by cjnewson88
This was posted this morning. Pretty much just another view point of the information we already know is likely to be true. I'll post the link below as well as the full article in the spoiler.

http://undicisettembre.blogspot.co.n...gent-mark.html


Quote:
Undicisettembre: What do you think about conspiracy theories that claim that 9/11 was an inside job?

Mark Rossini: I have to leave the room if someone says that. I cannot even discuss it for five seconds.
There are all these ******** theories about controlled demolition and how the steel couldn’t break and World Trade Center 7.

These people really need to get a life and go back under the rock they came from. [/quote]

Tell it to the Chaplain 1-800-p-o-u-n-d-s-a-l-t

Quote:
They are just creating confusion and pain. It’s just wrong, trust me. [/quote]

Is there a " FBI 4 911TRUTH " group Mark ??
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Old 30th May 2016, 07:50 AM   #15
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In the US today we are remembering our war dead by taking a day off from work for starting the summer beer drinking season.

Your post was puzzling to me at first, but then I remembered this.
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jrrarglblarg View Post
In the US today we are remembering our war dead by taking a day off from work for starting the summer beer drinking season.

Your post was puzzling to me at first, but then I remembered this.
There are no Beer For 9/11 Truth nuts.


This is what I have to say to that...
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Old 30th May 2016, 08:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Is there a " FBI 4 911TRUTH " group Mark ??
No there isn't because
Quote:
There are all these ******** theories about controlled demolition and how the steel couldn’t break and World Trade Center 7.

These people really need to get a life and go back under the rock they came from
Instead of forming internet warrior groups, the FBI prefers to simply do their job.
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Old 27th March 2017, 01:51 PM   #18
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The "Undicisettembre" blog now published a longer piece written by Mark Rossini:

http://undicisettembre.blogspot.de/p...i-inre911.html

To recap, Rossini had been an FBI agent, assigned by the New York FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF - note: New York FBI, not FBI HQ) to the CIA's "Alec Station", a station dedicated solely to investigating Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, between 1999 and 2003.

Rossini makes strong allegations:
Originally Posted by Mark Rossini
To put it bluntly the oil spigot is more important than American lives. The facts are all there, but conscious avoidance has been the practice. We protect the Royal House of Al-Saud, who made a deal with puritanical Wahhabi zealots, in order to ensure the flow of oil. Right or wrong, these are the facts which causes everybody to look down at the floor when you mention them, and hope you'll go away and not interfere with their cheap tank of gas.

...why Alec Station withheld FBI Special Agent Doug Miller's CIR, and why I was told to shut up about it. As I wrote earlier, it was to recruit (more likely allow the Saudi Mabahith to do it for them or let the Saudi Mabahith have free hand and report back to the CIA) one of the 9/11 terrorists who met in Malaysia and/or at a minimum to learn what they were doing; to keep John O'Neill and the FBI in the dark about their efforts, and lastly to protect the Saudis from "embarrassment". It is as simple as that.
I am not exactly sure when this was written by Rossini. He mentions the infamous "28 pages" as not yet released in full and unredacted. Does this mean he acknowledges the release that was done a few months back, but wants it to be unredacted? Or did he write before that release? I'll ask Hammer.

By the way, when looking for the best thread to post this in, I had to go back 4 pages and 10 months in the sub-forum. I was surprised that no appropriate thread (one dealing specifically with the Saudi tangent) has been active more recently; haven't paloalto and jimd3100 posted on and off? This should be water on their mills.
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Old 28th March 2017, 11:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
...
I am not exactly sure when this was written by Rossini. He mentions the infamous "28 pages" as not yet released in full and unredacted. Does this mean he acknowledges the release that was done a few months back, but wants it to be unredacted? Or did he write before that release? I'll ask Hammer.
...
And the answer is:
"This document was written over a long period and he last updated it in September 2016. He's unhappy with the release of the 28 pages because they are still heavily redacted."
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Old 6th April 2017, 08:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The "Undicisettembre" blog now published a longer piece written by Mark Rossini:

http://undicisettembre.blogspot.de/p...i-inre911.html

To recap, Rossini had been an FBI agent, assigned by the New York FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF - note: New York FBI, not FBI HQ) to the CIA's "Alec Station", a station dedicated solely to investigating Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, between 1999 and 2003.

Rossini makes strong allegations:

I am not exactly sure when this was written by Rossini. He mentions the infamous "28 pages" as not yet released in full and unredacted. Does this mean he acknowledges the release that was done a few months back, but wants it to be unredacted? Or did he write before that release? I'll ask Hammer.

By the way, when looking for the best thread to post this in, I had to go back 4 pages and 10 months in the sub-forum. I was surprised that no appropriate thread (one dealing specifically with the Saudi tangent) has been active more recently; haven't paloalto and jimd3100 posted on and off? This should be water on their mills.
I just read over the first part of Mark Rossini's answers to Undicisettembre.

First I have been on the phone with Mark, and had a preliminary conversation with him over what had happened that had allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to go over every detail of what had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have errors. One example is his account of the June 11 2001 meeting at the New York FBI field office. This was the meeting set up by FBI Agent Dina Corsi, between her, CIA officer Clarke Shannon, FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, working with Shannon at the CIA bin Laden unit, and FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators.


"CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst, came up to FBI NY on or about June 11, 2001 and had a meeting (which I was not invited to) with my assigned squad, I-49, and requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia."

I don’t know where Mark came up with CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There is not the slightest evidence or record anywhere that the CIA agents and FBI HQs’ agents at this meeting “ever requested any help in finding the terrorists” who had attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There are in fact three records of this meeting, the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, the account in the DOJ IG report and the account in Lawrence Wright’s, Looming Tower, and in the July 10-17, 2006 issue of the New Yorker, “The Agent who almost stopped the attacks on 9/11”, Ali Soufan, who was FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's boss.

At the September 20, 2002, public hearing of the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, Senator Carl Levin, asked CIA Officer Tom Wilshire, who was hidden behind a screen so no one could later identify him, why CIA Officer Clarke Shannon, who was at that June 11, 2001, meeting in New York City with FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, did not give the information he had on Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, to Bongardt. Bongardt in fact was hiding behind another screen at that same meeting, also answering questions. Senator Levin stated that he knew of no law, no rule, no regulations that prevented Shannon from giving the information he had to Bongardt, even after Bongardt directly asked Shannon, who are these people, in the three photos from Kuala Lumpur, and why are you, the CIA surveilling them. And what have these people got to do with the Cole bombing, since Bongardt was part of the FBI Cole bombing investigation, and why were you, the CIA asking us, the FBI Cole bombing investigators, if we recognize any of these people in these photos.

At the time of this meeting the CIA knew that al Qaeda terrorist, Nawaf al-Hazmi was already inside of the US, knew al Qaeda terrorist, Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US and knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was likely aimed right at the US. Tom Wilshire answered Senator Levin’s question, as to why CIA officer Clarke Shannon did not give the information he had to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. Wilshire stated that first this information could not be given to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt or his team unless this meeting had been specifically set up to pass this information to the FBI, and second Shannon could not pass this information to the FBI without prior permission from the CIA which he did not have. In effect, Wilshire had just admitted that the CIA had withheld material information in a criminal conspiracy, from the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. Wilshire, admitted that the CIA had just committed in fact a major Federal criminal felony. No law allows even the CIA from committing this major Federal felony, yet no one was indicted for this horrific crime, a crime which in fact had hidden information from the FBI that ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people.

Rossini continues with:

“And "Moreover, in the aforementioned meeting (attended by CIA, and the FBI’s Dina Corsi), the CIA would not tell the assembled FBI agents, nor then AUSA Dave Kelly (who left the meeting early due to the hostile atmosphere), why finding these men was so important (hence SA Steve Bongardt’s famous email to Corsi, wherein he warns her of the consequences that “—someday someone will die—"). Dina did not know at all about the recruitment effort. Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)."

This paragraph has several errors. First Bongardt’s quote that “—someday someone will die—“, had nothing to do with this meeting but was in email Bongardt sent back to Corsi on August 29, 2001, after she had claimed that the NSLU had told her, that New York agent Steve Bongardt, could have nothing to do with any investigation of Mihdhar, finally shutting down his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This was a complete lie, in fact the NSLU attorney that Corsi had consulted, Sherri Sabol, told Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA cable in her EC to start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could start or take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi that he wanted. Further more, Corsi had already been been given approval by the NSA, to pass this NSA cable, to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt on August 27, 2001, a fact that Corsi withheld from Attorney Sherri Sabol.

Further, when Rossini states that “Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)." this is also in error. On August 29, 2001, Corsi in email to Steve Bongardt stated that “if at such time as evidence is developed of a substantial Federal crime [by Mihdhar and Hazmi], that evidence will be passed over the wall per the proper procedures for follow up criminal investigation [by your FBI criminal investigators].

But Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators that she knew on August 22, 2001 , according to the DOJ IG report, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, knew that this was in fact a substantial Federal crime, and even knew that both the CIA and FBI HQ’s were keeping this horrific information secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators so they would not have the probable caused they needed and in fact required to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. There was nothing innocent at all about Corsi. She along with the top CIA managers and many people at FBI HQ’s had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.

Rossini goes on to say that:, “Lastly, when the Deputy Chief of Alec Station was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission on live TV (their identity was hidden by a curtain), the Deputy Chief was asked “Why was the FBI not informed?” The Deputy Chief’s emotional response was “we were so overwhelmed, it just fell through the cracks.””

This interview was at the September 20, 2002 public hearing of the Joint Inquiry Committee not the 9/11 Commission public hearings. Tom Wilshire’s statement that “we were so overwhelmed, it [telling the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi], just fell through the cracks.” is asinine at best since the CIA was only tracking 3 al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi. On August 21, 2001, when the CIA and FBI HQ’s, in fact Tom Wilshire himself, found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, they all knew they were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would murder thousands of Americans. So what did CIA officer Tom Wilshire do with this information. He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

Last edited by paloalto; 6th April 2017 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 6th April 2017, 08:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I just read over the first part of Mark Rossini's answers to Undicisettembre.

First I have been on the phone with Mark, and had a preliminary conversation with him over what had happened that had allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to go over every detail of what had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have errors. One example is his account of the June 11 2001 meeting at the New York FBI field office. This was the meeting set up by FBI Agent Dina Corsi, between her, CIA officer Clarke Shannon, FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, working with Shannon at the CIA bin Laden unit, and FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators.


"CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst, came up to FBI NY on or about June 11, 2001 and had a meeting (which I was not invited to) with my assigned squad, I-49, and requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia."

I don’t know where Mark came up with CIA/CTC representatives, along with an FBIHQ analyst requested help in finding the terrorists who attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There is not the slightest evidence or record anywhere that the CIA agents and FBI HQs’ agents at this meeting “ever requested any help in finding the terrorists” who had attended the terror summit in Malaysia. There are in fact three records of this meeting, the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, the account in the DOJ IG report and the account in Lawrence Wright’s, Looming Tower, and in the July 10-17, 2006 issue of the New Yorker, “The Agent who almost stopped the attacks on 9/11”, Ali Soufan, who was FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's boss.

At the September 20, 2002, public hearing of the Joint Inquiry of the House and the Senate, Senator Carl Levin, asked CIA Officer Tom Wilshire, who was hidden behind a screen so no one could later identify him, why CIA Officer Clarke Shannon, who was at that June 11, 2001, meeting in New York City with FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, did not give the information he had on Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, to Bongardt. Bongardt in fact was hiding behind another screen at that same meeting, also answering questions. Senator Levin stated that he knew of no law, no rule, no regulations that prevented Shannon from giving the information he had to Bongardt, even after Bongardt directly asked Shannon, who are these people, in the three photos from Kuala Lumpur, and why are you, the CIA surveilling them. And what have these people got to do with the Cole bombing, since Bongardt was part of the FBI Cole bombing investigation, and why were you, the CIA asking us, the FBI Cole bombing investigators, if we recognize any of these people in these photos.

At the time of this meeting the CIA knew that al Qaeda terrorist, Nawaf al-Hazmi was already inside of the US, knew al Qaeda terrorist, Khalid al-Mihdhar had a multi-entry visa for the US and knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was likely aimed right at the US. Tom Wilshire answered Senator Levin’s question, as to why CIA officer Clarke Shannon did not give the information he had to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. Wilshire stated that first this information could not be given to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt or his team unless this meeting had been specifically set up to pass this information to the FBI, and second Shannon could not pass this information to the FBI without prior permission from the CIA which he did not have. In effect, Wilshire had just admitted that the CIA had withheld material information in a criminal conspiracy, from the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. Wilshire, admitted that the CIA had just committed in fact a major Federal criminal felony. No law allows even the CIA from committing this major Federal felony, yet no one was indicted for this horrific crime, a crime which in fact had hidden information from the FBI that ultimately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people.

Rossini continues with:

“And "Moreover, in the aforementioned meeting (attended by CIA, and the FBI’s Dina Corsi), the CIA would not tell the assembled FBI agents, nor then AUSA Dave Kelly (who left the meeting early due to the hostile atmosphere), why finding these men was so important (hence SA Steve Bongardt’s famous email to Corsi, wherein he warns her of the consequences that “—someday someone will die—"). Dina did not know at all about the recruitment effort. Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)."

This paragraph has several errors. First Bongardt’s quote that “—someday someone will die—“, had nothing to do with this meeting but was in email Bongardt sent back to Corsi on August 29, 2001, after she had claimed that the NSLU had told her, that New York agent Steve Bongardt, could have nothing to do with any investigation of Mihdhar, finally shutting down his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This was a complete lie, in fact the NSLU attorney that Corsi had consulted, Sherri Sabol, told Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA cable in her EC to start an investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could start or take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi that he wanted. Further more, Corsi had already been been given approval by the NSA, to pass this NSA cable, to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt on August 27, 2001, a fact that Corsi withheld from Attorney Sherri Sabol.

Further, when Rossini states that “Dina just knew that the methodology by which the CIA knew about these terrorists was via an “intelligence method” (which Dina erroneously and innocently thought was protected then by the “wall”)." this is also in error. On August 29, 2001, Corsi in email to Steve Bongardt stated that “if at such time as evidence is developed of a substantial Federal crime [by Mihdhar and Hazmi], that evidence will be passed over the wall per the proper procedures for follow up criminal investigation [by your FBI criminal investigators].

But Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators that she knew on August 22, 2001 , according to the DOJ IG report, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, knew that this was in fact a substantial Federal crime, and even knew that both the CIA and FBI HQ’s were keeping this horrific information secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators so they would not have the probable caused they needed and in fact required to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. There was nothing innocent at all about Corsi. She along with the top CIA managers and many people at FBI HQ’s had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.

Rossini goes on to say that:, “Lastly, when the Deputy Chief of Alec Station was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission on live TV (their identity was hidden by a curtain), the Deputy Chief was asked “Why was the FBI not informed?” The Deputy Chief’s emotional response was “we were so overwhelmed, it just fell through the cracks.””

This interview was at the September 20, 2002 public hearing of the Joint Inquiry Committee not the 9/11 Commission public hearings. Tom Wilshire’s statement that “we were so overwhelmed, it [telling the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi], just fell through the cracks.” is asinine at best since the CIA was only tracking 3 al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi. On August 21, 2001, when the CIA and FBI HQ’s, in fact Tom Wilshire himself, found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, they all knew they were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would murder thousands of Americans. So what did CIA officer Tom Wilshire do with this information. He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.
I see, so you apparently believe almost 3000 people were murdered in cold blood, but yet couldn't spare the time to speak in depth to one of the people you claim proves your case? No wonder the truth movement is dead.

Please show where in your post it proves the US government intentionally murdered it's own citizens and those of many other countries. Please note the bolded.

I'll wait.
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Old 6th April 2017, 09:04 PM   #22
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a precognition spam attack with fake conclusion

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
... Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.
BS conclusion. Total BS, aka extreme BS. How do you make up these conclusion, they did not KNOW.
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Old 7th April 2017, 01:37 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post

Wilshire stated that first this information could not be given to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt or his team unless this meeting had been specifically set up to pass this information to the FBI, and second Shannon could not pass this information to the FBI without prior permission from the CIA which he did not have. In effect, Wilshire had just admitted that the CIA had withheld material information in a criminal conspiracy, from the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. Wilshire, admitted that the CIA had just committed in fact a major Federal criminal felony.
No, that is- as usual- your interpretation of what was said. He actually said no such thing: he said what you quoted him saying, not the stuff you added on afterwards.
Originally Posted by paloalto View Post


But Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators that she knew on August 22, 2001 , according to the DOJ IG report, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, knew that this was in fact a substantial Federal crime, and even knew that both the CIA and FBI HQ’s were keeping this horrific information secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team of Cole bombing investigators so they would not have the probable caused they needed and in fact required to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. There was nothing innocent at all about Corsi. She along with the top CIA managers and many people at FBI HQ’s had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.
Again, this is merely your assertion of what you think happened. It is not supported by any quotes in your post.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.
Same again. Unsupported assertion. Please provide evidence that they knew this, and that this was the reason they "shut down" the investigation.
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Old 8th April 2017, 05:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I just read over the first part of Mark Rossini's answers to Undicisettembre.

First I have been on the phone with Mark, and had a preliminary conversation with him over what had happened that had allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place. Unfortunately I did not have enough time to go over every detail of what had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have errors. ...
Thanks for the detailed reply. This is all too much information for me to process at this time for me (not my field of interest so far), but I'll feed it back to the undicisettembre guys (i.e. send them a link to your post).
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Old 9th April 2017, 04:51 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
I see, so you apparently believe almost 3000 people were murdered in cold blood....

Please show where in your post it proves the US government intentionally murdered it's own citizens and those of many other countries. Please note the bolded.

I'll wait.
I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.
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Old 9th April 2017, 05:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.
This is where you go astray. Can you show with something other then your opinion that this was their intent with their actions?

Nothing you have posted to date proves this. The investigation that you got most of your information from didn't.
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Old 9th April 2017, 05:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.

But your statement is not correct. These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.
Quote:
it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this
This is false, you made it up. BS flag waves high on this.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
... what did CIA officer Tom Wilshire do with this information. He ordered Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi after Bongardt also found out that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US, when he, Corsi and Middleton all knew this would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.
This is false, they did not know, you made this up.
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Old 10th April 2017, 03:52 AM   #28
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Intel is supposed to figure out stuff that is going to happen. In the case of terrorism it is believed that all manner of planning takes place... and this makes sense for large complex operations. Plantig an IED would be hard to prevent because it could be "planned" in a very ad hoc way...

The Cole attack was not a very complex operation... get an inflatable, a couple of suicide fanatics... make a few bombs and drive it into a Navy ship which seem to use the harbor.

9/11 seems orders of magnitude more complex. But the elements of planning were simple. Look up the flight schedules to find early AM trans-continental flights originating in the north east. Easy peasy.... there are dozens to choose from. You can even know the type of plane used.

Security at airports at the time was rather lax.. We hadn't seen any plane hijackings in years and the history of them was to demand a prisoner release or similar.

Hijacking a plane with several thugs armed with knives or guns seems not very difficult especially when you can brutally kill a few passengers or crew and intimidate the remaining passengers and crew on board. This sort of thuggery doesn't take much planning. It could happen on a buss, a train also.

Flying the planes seems to be the part that requires some skill. Many claim that these jerks could not have had the skills to pilot the planes we saw. Others claim this flying is much less difficult that take off and landing... the former of course was done by the air line pilots and there was no intent to land.

Navigation to the targets was not difficult either under the conditions. The date could have simply been chosen based on 14 day weather forecasts. September historically is mild weather absent a hurricane and they move up from the ITZ at the equator.

At the the elevations where the planes were hijacked it was easy to fly visually. Flight originating a LOgan bound for LA set out on a westward course... passing Providence, Narragansett Bay and you can see LI to the south... which has at its western end Manhatten with the towers visible from probably more than 75 miles out at flying altitude. The course change was executed at the easily seen Hudson River value... and the plane simply followed the river south which led to the twin towers... easily seen. This was the GPS era and having a hand held would allow someone to obtain heading to any chose waypoint. The novice pilot would have to make minor tweaks and slowly descend to the desired altitude. YES skill has involved... but probably skill which were easily mastered at a flight school and with simulator practice.

The flight which it the wtc made a long descending 180 turn and then descended in a straight course into the tower.

The pentagon hit was pretty easy too as it has the largest footprint of any building. a distinctive share and lies next to the Potomac and near the DC airport.

YES they needed 4 groups with one pilot in each... The planning was almost assuredly not documented in communications on the www but done with voice person to person or telephone. I doubt that intel had taps in place to listen to the "planners" but perhaps were tracking.... or trying to of guys with connections to former terrorists. Such as the 93 etc bombing. And to do so intel would like infiltrate or use plants to get info about who knows who and what they do... their day jobs, for example.

I suspect intel know that some sort of hijacking was in the offing. The bojinka plot was foiled and it involved lots of international planes being hijacked. It made sense that they would try something similar and spectacular... and what better than to hit the icons of US capitalism and and power. The WTC was already a known target... and of course the capitol and parhaps the pentagon, the CIA headquarters or NSA or the White House. Pentagon was the easiest target with the Capitol second.

Since it didn't matter WHEN they did it... except that good visibility was required it would be hard to catch them in the act. If airport security was ramped up... the hijackers would know this and postpone their plans. Perhaps the surveilled the airports and tested getting on those flights BEFORE the plot went live.

Intel DID report in the 8/16 PBD that something was up and it would involve planes. The info was probably not specific enough to prevent it. Could intel have puts stealth agents on all the trans continental domestic flights? slight maybe. Trans Atlantic flights would be another problem... and they would be empty of fuel by the time they crossed the Atlantic. It seems likely in hindsight that the plane involved fuel starting massive fires.

Hindsight is always 20-20.... we coulda shoulda... but the intel was too diffuse and vague to act on. Was it simply a matter of connecting dots? If there were dots... I am guessing there were not enough of them. But connecting dots is how a plot would be foiled. Were some dots not connected? Maybe... It would seem that if things were really screaming and that the intel was actionable a bust would have happened. But it's historically difficult to foil a crime as it's taking place or before To do so in this country historically you have to have and make a case for conspiracy. And this needs solid evidence. We couldn't even nail Cappone... they got him I believe on tax evasion.

NB how that now, post 911 and all this awareness of radical islamic terrorists... how many low tech terrorist attacks have been pulled off... Paris, Marseille...San Bernadine, Orlando, Germany, UK... And there will be more. Low tech terrorism is extremely hard to stop.

There will be more terrorist attacks. But we now live in a world of increased security and less freedom because of terrorism. The post 9/11 world.
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Old 10th April 2017, 06:25 AM   #29
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
I already have in the many posts to this forum Not only have my prior posts proved beyond any reasonable doubt, but almost all of this information comes right from the many official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. I have even posted the exact report name and even the exact page number in each where this information and proof is found.
We have had this conversation before. Nothing in that report (assuming we are talking about the same one) supported your conclusions. I pointed this out in detail to you some time ago.
I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?
Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
This proof is not only iron clad but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way.
This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct.

Furthermore, if your so-called proof is indeed "iron-clad", why have you not taken this to the courts, or at least the US media? You could bring the murderers and traitors to justice, and vindicate yourself at the same time. What are you waiting for?
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Old 10th April 2017, 07:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
...These people in the US government did not intentionally murder its own citizens and those of many other countries, it intentionally allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to do this by shutting down all FBI investigations that could have stopped this attack and prevented the murders of almost 3000 people on 9/11. This proof is not only iron clad ...
This is hyperbole at best, and you ought to be in a position to know this.
Slightly worse, it could be your projection.
At worst, you might be lying.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
but absolutely no one on this forum has ever been able to refute any part of this information in any way. Please note the bolded.
Your information appears to be well researched, and I have no reason to assume you present in any other but proper context.
Your interpretation of it - the first quote above - however doesn't seem to be conclusively backed by that information. When an assertion has been made without sufficient proof, it needs no detailed refutation anyway.


paloalto, you could win support in this forum from some of the very best if you weren't so irrationally married to this jump in your conclusion - that there was an intention on the part of US agents named by you to have a high number of US citizens actually killed.

Also, I have advised you several times before, and would like to advide you again: You come here sparsely, and every time you post, at least your first post is an extremely lengthy story of very much. Try to focus more closely on individual items of the story you wish to convey. Win us over piece by piece. It is a very long stretch from where most here are to where you'd want to us to be.
Dan Noel of AE911T (whom I despise) calls this "baby steps". (His chosen baby steps are about WTC7, and each single one is misguided, so he fails to convince skeptics; I still like the idea of walking in baby steps)
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Old 19th April 2017, 11:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post

Second, while his account of his interaction with CIA agents at the bin Laden unit at the CIA with respect to Tom Wilshire blocking FBI Agent Dog Miller's cable on Mihdhar back to the FBI is accurate, some of his other accounts have.......
Thank you for this cogent analysis paloalto. You are correct.

I was 17 when invited to spend the day at my Dad's office at DoJ. There was some interaction with Jamie Gorelick, and much discussion about PGP and encryption concerns. There was a document that outlined the FBI and DoJ's major threat assessments related to the inadequacy of CALEA in the face of newer technologies. There were several occasions where I and the secretary had to leave the room so that secret (classified vs top idk) matters could be discussed. There was a great deal of cussing about various diplomats and their respective countries. This was the Office of International Affairs.

Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this. In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.

The CIA knew about the plot.
The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.
The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.
The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.
The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.
The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.

So what's the problem?

The CIA NEEDS help.

They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.

America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.

The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost. You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.

9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple. Most people will inevitably forgive this fault if given the chance. They aren't that mad and it will make sense to them. You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys, but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition... that is your angle, because it's largely true, and people understand and forgive the truth. Be ready for it.
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Old 20th April 2017, 01:22 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
Thank you for this cogent analysis paloalto. You are correct.

I was 17 when invited to spend the day at my Dad's office at DoJ. There was some interaction with Jamie Gorelick, and much discussion about PGP and encryption concerns. There was a document that outlined the FBI and DoJ's major threat assessments related to the inadequacy of CALEA in the face of newer technologies. There were several occasions where I and the secretary had to leave the room so that secret (classified vs top idk) matters could be discussed. There was a great deal of cussing about various diplomats and their respective countries. This was the Office of International Affairs.

Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.

An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this. In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.

The CIA knew about the plot.
The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.
The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.
The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.
The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.
The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.

So what's the problem?

The CIA NEEDS help.

They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.

America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.

The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost. You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.

9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple. Most people will inevitably forgive this fault if given the chance. They aren't that mad and it will make sense to them. You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys, but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition... that is your angle, because it's largely true, and people understand and forgive the truth. Be ready for it.
I could go through this unevidenced bilge point by point, but, frankly, that would be an utter waste of time. I shall instead content myself with answering thus:

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Old 20th April 2017, 07:20 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
... America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum. ...
There would be no 9/11 truth if the followers could comprehend physics and do a momentum model.

Did Rossini talk about conservation of momentum?

Big hint: 19 terrorists did 9/11. The false flag remains your fantasy.

But the best response to fantasy, remains...
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I could go through this unevidenced bilge point by point, but, frankly, that would be an utter waste of time. I shall instead content myself with answering thus:

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Old 20th April 2017, 12:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
...
Here's my takeaway....
You should check your autocorrect. You surely meant to write "hot teenage fever dream", right?

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil. You all KNOW this.
The way we KNOW that you KNOW this is merely a hot teenage fever dream is that you use all caps to convince us you know our minds better than we do - a ploy so obviously fictional not even you would fail to see through it.
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Old 20th April 2017, 09:02 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
Here's my takeaway.... the FBI was often forced to rely on intelligence techniques and methods that were inherently illegal and therefore they 'could not' know about them. Regrettably, they also needed said techniques to do their job effectively. This was "the wall" that has been spun into some sort of mythological beast which prevented the FBI from effectively doing their jobs. If anything, at the time, the wall allowed the FBI to do their jobs, legally.
Wow, not one thing you said here was or is now true.

Quote:
An operation such as a false flag like 9/11 was needed to facilitate an environment in which enough 'rules' could change that we would be poised to win in the 21st century against evil.
Like Gyngivitus?

Quote:
You all KNOW this.
No I don't know this. Things were good in 2001, we'd paid down the debt, the tech-bubble had burst but tech was still going strong, and in general the country was in healthy shape.


Quote:
In the face of the Bojinka plot, a plan was hatched within the executive branch to bring down the towers concurrently with a terror attack by jihadis.
Proof? Oh that's right, there ain't none. Plus, if you knew anything about the executive branch and the tenets of the World Trade Center you might grasp how ridiculous this idea really is. Had they picked a different target, a BETTER target like a nuclear power plant, you might have something to go on, but targeting bond traders and high end lawyers is always a bad idea for any politician or deep-stater.


Quote:
The CIA knew about the plot.
They knew something was up, so did the FBI, so did a couple of French news agencies, and we can't forget the DoD knew back in May, 2001 that something was coming because they closed all military bases to civilian traffic.

Quote:
The CIA had both the airfields and the airplanes.
Really, where? I know they have a pair in Nevada, and share one with the USAF in Arizona. I will need to see the bill of sale for 4 767s, and the CIA inventory of said aircraft before 9-11-2001, and immediately afterward. If the planes are missing you might be onto something, but you still have to account for the missing AA,United planes, and we know those crashed into Manhattan, Shanksville, and DC.

Quote:
The CIA had the Pentagon and executive branch infiltration needed to pull off the operation.
You understand that this is treason that ends up with everyone involved strapped to a table when they get caught.

Quote:
The CIA had the biological weapons needed to pressure the PATRIOT Act when there was resistance.
Nope, the biologics were traced to the US Army, and the Patriot Act was going to happen anyway.

Quote:
The CIA had the means, the motive, and the opportunity.
Means? Not really. Motive? Have met anyone who works at CIA on any level? The sheer number of CIA operatives required to pull off 9-11 as we know it would have started at 3,500. Lock 4 CIA agents in a room and try to get them to agree on anything, it's not going to happen.

Quote:
The CIA likely pulled off the attacks for the perceived greatest good.
Tacos?

Quote:
So what's the problem?
Your grip on the real world.

Quote:
The CIA NEEDS help.
Why? You just described them as having super powers and unlimited resources, but somehow they still need help?

Quote:
They have no quality control department, quality assurance division, or accountability, and if they do.... they are absolutely INEPT and do not deserve our money.
The CIA is not SEARS. They do have accountability, even though they don't seem to get punished too often.

Quote:
America is doomed to face 9/11 truth because of conservation of momentum.
No, mostly because a bunch of states have legalized marijuana.

Quote:
It will start with WTC7, it will end with the Twin Towers, and common sense will prevail with respect to the Pentagon.
16 years, dude, when's the big day? Who's doing the investigating right now?

Quote:
The slow acceptance to the notion that recognition of LIHOP may be necessary is just a transitory process in which you realize your entire war is lost.
Look, Scooter, nobody thinks we're winning anything. Just killing people who need killing and want to die for their god. It's the same as taking out the trash, there's always more trash.

Quote:
You may win this battle or that one, but you cannot prove a lie. Your fight is literally a lost cause, for it was wrong on Day 1.
We've won a lot of battles, the only lie is that 9-11 was an inside job. The worst thing about 9-11 Truth is that it has kept battlefield stocked with confused young men who have been tricked into believing this lie.

9/11 Truth are the true murderers in this game.

Your talking about a plan to fake an attack on the US to lead us into TWO wars, but without framing anyone from either country. Then the Amazing CIA forgets to stage chemical weapons in Iraq for our troops and press to "find".

Quote:
9/11 was about seizure and control of data, plain and simple.
So you must be the lone person not to own a smart phone or a computer (but you'd need one to post here). The phone companies, Google, Facebook and Apple have more data on a vast chunk of the human race right now. More than the CIA, NSA, and NRO could ever hope to process. This was done without firing a shot. In fact, most of us lined up to surrender our personal data to these and other corporations.

War is counter productive to this process.



Quote:
You can continue to blame the wars on boogeymen bad guys,
No, we're just let Al Qaeda take credit...since they did it...and they're proud of it.


Quote:
but when it comes time to recognizing the controlled demolition...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

Oh that's right, today's 4/20....
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Old 1st May 2017, 08:02 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
We have had this conversation before. Nothing in that report (assuming we are talking about the same one) supported your conclusions. I pointed this out in detail to you some time ago.
I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?

This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct.

Furthermore, if your so-called proof is indeed "iron-clad", why have you not taken this to the courts, or at least the US media? You could bring the murderers and traitors to justice, and vindicate yourself at the same time. What are you waiting for?
Your post: "This is completely untrue, as I have pointed out above. Just because you ignore any refutations and continue doggedly spamming the same tried nonsense does not validate your conclusions or make that statement correct."

No person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described, information from official US government reports, with the name of the document and even in many cases even the page number of the report.

As to the refutations, are you referring to these, here some of them are in all of their glory:

“This is false, you made it up. BS flag waves high on this.”

or how about:

“This is false, they did not know, you made this up. [That a huge al Qaeda attack was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill many Americans]”

or maybe this one:

“BS conclusion. Total BS, aka extreme BS. How do you make up these conclusion, they did not KNOW.”

These are all typical of the thinking or lack thereof, in the posts from what might be called the "de-bunkers" on this forum.

This poster wrote:

"I also find it strange that the US government would release a report containing concrete evidence that the US government is guilty of premeditated murder and treason. Do you have an explanation for this?"

Yes, the people who wrote the reports from the investigations on 9/11 were a different set of people from the people who had allowed the attacks on 9/11. However, none of these reports was complete in itself. Each report had been carefully obfuscated so that anyone reading that single report would never have a complete picture from just that one report of what had taken place prior to the attacks on 9/11, that had allowed these attacks to take place.

Even after leaving out critical information so people reading the report could never have a full picture of why the 9/11 attacks had taken place, each report had then been criminally obfuscated or modified to hide information from the American people. In addition the actions of the people described these reports do not make any sense from the stand point of, what would a rational person have done with this information.

Some examples:

Why did the DOJ IG report not point out that Tom Wilshere knew immediately when he was told on August 21, 2001 by FBI Agent Margaret Gillespie, working at the CIA bin Laden unit, that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were found inside of the US by the INS, that these al Qaeda terrorists were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would murder many Americans. The DOJ IG report has Wilshere's July 5, 2001 email back to the CIA indicating that Wilshere thought that the people who were at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, Mihdhar and Hazmi, were connected to the massive number of warnings that the CIA and FBI had been getting since April of 2001, of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack. It does not have his email, found in DE 939, and sent back to CIA officers, Richard Blee, and Coffer Black, and given to George Tenet, on July 23, 2001, that said that specifically Khalid al-Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack.

Why was Wilshere’s, horrific July 23, 2001 email, not in the 9/11 Commission report, claimed to be the most complete official US government report on 9/11. In fact this report does not even have Wilshere’s July 5, 2001 email back to Blee and Black. We know that the 9/11 Commission had these emails since they stated that they had all of the information from the DOJ IG investigation of 9/11.

The 9/11 Commission stated that they could not understand why the CIA had never connected the warnings they had of a huge and spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US that would murder many Americans to the fact that the CIA knew that the three al Qaeda terrorists, al Qaeda terrorist Khalid al-Mihdhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and his brother Salem al-Hazmi, were inside of the US, when in fact these emails sent from Tom Wilshere at the FBI HQ’s to the CIA had directly connected these al Qaeda terrorists to the warnings of these attack. This is clear evidence that the entire 9/11 Commission report was nothing but a complete and total fraud on the American people.

When Wilshere found out on August 21, 2001, that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, why didn’t he immediately contact FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, and have him find Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi before they had time to take part in the huge al Qaeda terrorist attack that he was aware was just about to take place inside of the US?

Tom Wilshere had been moved over to the FBI from the CIA, ostensibly according to the DOJ IG report, so that FBI criminal investigators could exploit CIA intelligence in FBI criminal investigations. August 21, 2001 was three weeks and one day prior to the attacks on 9/11, plenty of time for Bongardt to have found these terrorists before the attacks on 9/11.

According to the DOJ IG report Wilshere also knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. He had discussed this information in emails with CIA officer Clarke Shannon, in mid-May 2001, just after he was moved over to the FBI, by the CIA in order to find out for the CIA, if the FBI Cole bombing investigators had uncovered the information that the CIA was desperately trying to keep secret, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing.

The DOJ IG report also states that Wilshere had found in a CIA cable on July 13, 2001, the photograph taken of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the Cole bombing, a photo taken at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting, the planning meeting attended by Mihdhar and Hazmi. The was the photographic proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. Since many people at the CIA were also aware of this information, including Richard Blee, Cofer Black and George Tenet, plus many others, 50-60 people according to the CIA IG report, they were all guilty of the major Federal felony of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors and guilty of criminal conspiracy to commit the crime of withholding material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the murder of 17 US sailors.

Instead of contacting Bongardt, Wilshere called FBI HQ’s Agent Dina Corsi and asked her to attend a meeting in his office the next day on August 22, 2001, with Margarete Gillespie to go over Gillespie’s discovery that Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US. Corsi already knew that the al Qaeda terrorist were planning a huge terrorist attack on the US, she had written up an EC in April 2001, at the request of her boss Rod Middleton, describing the large number of warnings by Usama bin Laden and Khattab indicating a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US. Wilshere asked Corsi on August 22, 2001, to write up an EC to start an intelligence investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, and asked Gillespie to bring the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, back to the rest of the CIA.

Not only did Corsi know that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a terrorist attack she warned about in her EC in April 2001, but according to the DOJ IG, report page 301, she also knew on August 22, 2001, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had also taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. She admitted that she had the photographic proof of this from Tom Wilshere, who had gotten this photo from the CIA on July 13, 2001. Corsi clearly knew that it was a major Federal crime not to give this information immediately to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

On August 22, Gillespie brought the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US went back to the CIA to the bin Laden unit headed by Richard Blee. Blee was the CIA manager who we now know had received Wilshere’s email on July 23, 2001, that indicated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda terrorist attack.

On August 23, 2001, Corsi tells her boss Rod Middleton, that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US. His immediate reaction was “AH ****”. He knew immediately that given Corsi’s EC describing the many warnings of an al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US, that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack.

There was never an explanation why this horrific information was kept completely secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. It was only after 6 days, on August 28, 2001, that Corsi finished her EC, had Wilshere review it and sent it over to the New York FBI office to start not a criminal investigation, but an intelligence investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

This EC went to FBI intelligence agent Craig Donnechie, who gave it to his boss John Ligouri. Ligouri thought this EC connected Mihdhar and Hazmi to the people who had taken part in the Cole bombing and sent this EC to Steve Bongardt. Bongardt immediately called Corsi and asked her to allow him to start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to take part in some horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack. He stated to Corsi, “Why do you think they are here do you think they are going to *********** Disneyland”.

Corsi told him, on August 28, 2001, that because there was a NSA cable in her EC, and by law he was not allowed to even look at it, he could not start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. What she did not tell him, was that she had already gotten approval on August 27, 2001 from the NSA General Council to give this NSA cable to him, according to the DOJ IG report.

Bongardt stated that she must be confused, that the NSA caveat prohibiting FBI criminal agents from having NSA cables without NSA permission, only applied to NSA cables that had been obtained with a FISA warrant. But this NSA cable described a phone conversation in Yemen between two people outside of the US, discussing the travel of Mihdhar and Hazmi to an important al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur, a situation that everyone at the FBI HQs would know, never required a FISA warrant. A FISA warrant was only required if one party to a NSA recorded phone conversation, was inside of the US.

Bongardt asked Corsi to get a NSLU opinion to see if he could start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi emailed Bongardt on August 29, 2001, (see DE 682), and said the attorney she and Rod Middleton consulted stated that Bongardt could have no part in any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. But it turns out that the attorney Corsi and Middleton had contacted, told them that since the NSA cable had no connection to any FISA warrant, Bongardt could take part in any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi that he wanted.

In her email, Corsi stated after shutting down his investigation, that “if at such time as evidence is developed of a major Federal crime, [by Mihdhar and Hazmi], that information will be passed over the wall per the proper procedures [to your team] for follow up criminal investigation”. But according to the DOJ IG report, Corsi admitted to DOJ IG investigators, that she had photographic proof on August 22, 2001, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing that had killed 17 US sailors, clearly a substantial Federal crime by these two al Qaeda terrorists.

Bongardt was never given this horrific information, until after the attacks on 9/11. Corsi knew that Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit, the unit in charge of all al Qaeda terrorists investigations on the world, was also aware of this information, she had gotten the Kuala Lumpur bin Attash photo from him and the CIA was also aware of this information, the Kuala Lumpur Attash photo had come from the CIA.

She also knew that both Wilshere, and the CIA were hiding this Kuala Lumpur photo of bin Attash from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt so he would never have the “probable cause” required to be able to start any criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She, along with Wilshere, and the CIA all were aware that these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in the massive al Qaeda terrorist attack she had detailed in her April EC.

On August 24, 2001, Tom Wilshere received email from FBI RFU Agent Michael Maltbie, and was told that Maltbie and David Frasca were blocking FBI Agent Harry Samit’s investigation of Zacharias Moussaoui, claiming that they had found no nefarious intent from Moussaoui, in spite of the fact that Samit thought Moussaoui was a terrorist trying to learn how to fly a B747 without even having a private pilot’s license, and had received information from French intelligence that had connected Moussaoui to the Khattab terrorist organization.

Frasca had received the EC from FBI Agent Dian Corsi in April that detailed the many warning of a terrorist attack aimed at the US by both the Khattab and the bin Laden terrorist organizations. Maltbie and Frasca told Samit that he could not even request a FISA warrant for Moussaoui’s duffle bag because Khattab was not a recognized terrorist organization. The FISA court stated after the attacks on 9/11, that they had no concept of “recognized terrorist organization”, that probable cause of a connection to any terrorist organization was sufficient to get a FISA warrant.

In Moussaoui’s duffle bag was a receipt for $14,000 from Ramzi bin al Shibh, roommate in Hamburg, Germany with Mohammed Atta, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi. On August 24, 2001, Wilshere now knows about Moussaoui, knows a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack is about to take place inside of the US, knows that al Qaeda terrorists Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, his July 23, 2001 email proves this, and even knows that he has ordered Corsi and Middleton to keep all this information completely secret from FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

Wilshere himself, had been ordered by his former CIA managers, Richard Blee, Cofer Black and George Tenet, on July 13, 2001 and again on July 23, 2001 to criminally sabotage FBI Steve Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by withholding the Kuala Lumpur information from him and his team of FBI criminal investigators.

On April 30, 2001 the CIA sent the Kuala Lumpur photo to the FBI Washington HQ’s to Rod Middleton, proving to Middleton that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing. So two weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, Middleton could have notified Bongardt and had him start a criminal investigation and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they have time to take part in the massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. Middleton even knew that it was in fact major Federal felony for Middleton not to give this information immediately to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt.

Incredibly, when the investigation and search for Mihdhar and Hazmi, was given to another FBI agent, to Robert Fuller, and Fuller called Corsi to get permission to call Saudi Arabian Airlines to get Mihdhar’s credit card number on September 5, 2001, because as he told her, his investigation was going to go nowhere without this number. She refused to give him permission to get this number. She nor has anyone else has never explained in any way why she denied him permission to get this credit card number.

FBI HQ’s agents and managers again and again deliberately took every possible action to completely block and/or shut down any and all criminal investigations of all terrorists found inside of the US, investigations that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11, even after all of these agents and managers knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was about to take place inside of the US. Not only did all of these managers at FBI HQs have Corsi’s EC on the warnings of this attack, but what did these agents and managers think, when these terrorists were found inside of the US, that they was here to get a little R&R before later carrying out an attack in Outer Mongolia?

All of this information and all of these facts, obtained only after aggregating thousands and thousands of pages from the many different official US government reports on 9/11, are incontrovertible proof that FBI HQ’s agents and managers, under orders from the CIA, had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11 by shutting down or blocking all FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.

Last edited by paloalto; 1st May 2017 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 1st May 2017, 09:48 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
... under orders from the CIA, had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11 by shutting down or blocking all FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks. ...
This is BS.

Are you the person who said you warned people, you knew it was coming?

Got some evidence for the leap to BS?
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Old 2nd May 2017, 01:13 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
This is BS.

Are you the person who said you warned people, you knew it was coming?

Got some evidence for the leap to BS?
Seconded.

paloalto, you say that "no person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described" - maybe that's semi-intelligent and somehow true. I'll grant that, for the moment and the sake of argument.

Your takeaway, however - "had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people" - still is nothing but a "hot teenage fever dream", as I told you already two weeks ago; it simply does not follow from the information you provide. It is your personal interpretation, your personal attempt at mind reading, fully loaded with your own personal emotions and bias.

Stop that stupid nonsense, and by and by you might win a rational person or twp over.

Stop posting those walls of text - you can link to any of your previous walls of text. Just correct your previous walls of text by excising this stupid nonsense mind reading BS.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 04:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Seconded.

paloalto, you say that "no person on this forum has ever provided even one single even semi-intelligence refutation of the information I have described" - maybe that's semi-intelligent and somehow true. I'll grant that, for the moment and the sake of argument.

Your takeaway, however - "had deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people" - still is nothing but a "hot teenage fever dream", as I told you already two weeks ago; it simply does not follow from the information you provide. It is your personal interpretation, your personal attempt at mind reading, fully loaded with your own personal emotions and bias.

Stop that stupid nonsense, and by and by you might win a rational person or twp over.

Stop posting those walls of text - you can link to any of your previous walls of text. Just correct your previous walls of text by excising this stupid nonsense mind reading BS.
Maybe you are right. It was not deliberate. The CIA and FBI HQ's shut down these FBI criminal investigations again and again and again accidentally. Their numerous and careful actions to shut down these investigations, when they all knew it would shut down or block investigations that could have stopped the al Qaeda terrorist attacks that these agencies had been warned about since April 2001, and allow this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack to take place that would kill many people in the US, were numerous actions that were all completely accidental.

Their testimony was that the people in the CIA and at FBI HQ's were just all way to stupid to know that the three al Qaeda terrorists that the CIA found on August 21, 2001, inside of the US, were connected to the warnings of this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just to take place inside of the US, is correct. How could anyone have been smart enough to have connected these two. Even the 9/11 Commission stated that they could never figure out why the CIA had never connected these two.

After all, as you have pointed out, how could anyone be smart enough to know that three al Qaeda terrorist inside of the US were connected to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US. Maybe the CIA and FBI HQ's thought they were here in order to get a little R&R before going to Outer Mongolia to carry out this attack.

It is now clear that no one could ever have been smart enough to connect several al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US to the warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US.

And how would anyone know when you shut down the FBI criminal investigations of these al Qaeda terrorists inside of the US, by FBI criminal investigators who wanted to under take to find these terrorists before they had time to carry out a terrorist attack inside of the US, and told the FBI HQ's agents that if they shut down their investigations of these terrorists, people in the US will die, that this would allow these terrorists to carry out a terrorist attack inside of the US.

To connect these two, the fact that al Qaeda terrorists were found inside of the US to the many warnings of a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack just about to take place inside of the US, is as you said, is just nonsense.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 04:28 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
Maybe you are right. It was not deliberate. The CIA and FBI HQ's shut down these FBI criminal investigations again and again and again ................................
How was the information the CIA was to pass to the FBI obtained? None of these suspects rights would have been violated, correct?
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