Sign the petition!

[Hokulele]

Considering the likelihood that many of these petitions attract the same signatories, a better quote from Proverbs would be, "As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly."

[Brass]

I have come to the realization that "truthers" do not want a "new investigation" as much as they want confirmation of their beliefs. Even if a new investigation is conducted, they will not be satisfied or happy with it unless it proves (by hook or by crook) their beliefs. I'm a strong believer in this. How about a better question; WHO should be in charge of this investigation? And don't say "an unbiased, third party team" because according to some "truthers" that would include AE911Truth. A government-appointed investigation team? A team "approved" by AE911Truth? Who? What?!

Furthermore, is 9/11 not one of the most studied events in human history? Surely, the vast majority of investigations would come to the same conclusions that "truthers" have if it was the most studied event.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Brass

How about a better question; WHO should be in charge of this investigation? And don't say "an unbiased, third party team" because according to some "truthers" that would include AE911Truth. A government-appointed investigation team? A team "approved" by AE911Truth? Who? What?!

That question has been asked many times on this forum, and it's one it seems the truthers would rather eat a bucket of their own vomit than answer. The reason is quite obvious; they want the option of rejecting the results of any investigation that doesn't support their own pre-formed conclusions, and refusing to specify who should do what gives them a get-out clause in the inevitable event of that happening.

Plus, of course, there's the infighting within the movement; the thermians would rather anything than a finding of explosives, the Judy Wood energy beams from space mob would revile either, and the Pentagon flyover folks and the Pentagon missile advocates wouldn't dream of supporting each other's conclusions. Everybody wants their own conspiracy theory to be true, and hates the thought that somebody else's might be.

Dave

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Brass

Furthermore, is 9/11 not one of the most studied events in human history? Surely, the vast majority of investigations would come to the same conclusions that "truthers" have if it was the most studied event.

The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.

When no distinction is acknowledged between historical fact and political spin, a New Investigation represents an opportunity to alter reality, regardless of what past investigations have already discovered. It's a complete break, a do-over from scratch, like rewriting a chapter of a novel or going back in time to alter the past as in Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow. It's irrelevant whether demolition charges or remote-controlled drone planes were actually present on 9/11. If there's a New Investigation, those things can be written in.

Such a New Investigation requires almighty power, though, which is why no conceivable practical investigation carried out by mere mortals has ever or shall ever suffice. We silly skeptics persist in pointing out the irreconcilable contradiction between the sought-for New Investigation's supposed power (to subpoena all "witnesses" and "suspects" domestic or foreign, and force honest answers with threats of perjury prosecution, which only the judicial branch of government can even come close to doing) and its required autonomy (independence from the government that is suspected of the conspiracy in the first place). We attempt to address that issue because we're hearing catechism and mistaking it for argument. The Truthers don't care. The investigation they want is literally miraculous, and therefore beyond such concerns.

Although, as Dave Rogers just pointed out, there are sectarian differences among Truthers over that catechism. Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; what the new do-over narrative should be.

[pgimeno]

If it keeps this pace, it might manage to reach 1% of the target number of signatures, which is, surprisingly, less than 50% of the number of members in AE911T.

I wouldn't count on that, though.

[Axxman300]

Whoohoo! 643 morons have signed.

[Axxman300]

Originally Posted by Myriad

The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.

It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.

[TheGnome]

I have accidentally done something reasonable today and I desperately need to compensate

Say would they accept an email address ending in dot ch ? I couldn't find out on the petition website.

[Nay_Sayer]

Rough math says it'll need 11k per day, 450 votes per hour to make the goal.

I blame thermite for this.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.

Good points here. It's interesting how so many of the truthers here attempt to pin the blame for their inaction on the skeptics, as if we had some kind of evil influence over them and their collective initiative.
Personally, I would take it as an incentive, rather than an obstacle, if a group of scoffers on a forum were mocking my deeply-held beliefs, especially if those beliefs- if proven- would uncover a monstrous injustice. I would be doubly motivated to investigate, on my own if necessary, primarily to prove them wrong, and then to right the wrongs.

fonebone: I note that you style yourself "an independent investigator". Have you taken any of the steps detailed by Axman300? What form has your investigation taken?

[BasqueArch]

Originally Posted by Myriad

The evolution of the concept of "New Investigation" is one of the most interesting things about the Truth Movement. If you think it refers to a bunch of detectives examining cold-case evidence, you're a few years behind the times. Like other similarly named things such as the New Jerusalem or the New Age, the New Investigation has become primarily a religious concept, an apocalyptic change in which consensual will and/or divine intervention transforms the world.

When no distinction is acknowledged between historical fact and political spin, a New Investigation represents an opportunity to alter reality, regardless of what past investigations have already discovered. It's a complete break, a do-over from scratch, like rewriting a chapter of a novel or going back in time to alter the past as in Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow. It's irrelevant whether demolition charges or remote-controlled drone planes were actually present on 9/11. If there's a New Investigation, those things can be written in.

Such a New Investigation requires almighty power, though, which is why no conceivable practical investigation carried out by mere mortals has ever or shall ever suffice. We silly skeptics persist in pointing out the irreconcilable contradiction between the sought-for New Investigation's supposed power (to subpoena all "witnesses" and "suspects" domestic or foreign, and force honest answers with threats of perjury prosecution, which only the judicial branch of government can even come close to doing) and its required autonomy (independence from the government that is suspected of the conspiracy in the first place). We attempt to address that issue because we're hearing catechism and mistaking it for argument. The Truthers don't care. The investigation they want is literally miraculous, and therefore beyond such concerns.

Although, as Dave Rogers just pointed out, there are sectarian differences among Truthers over that catechism. Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; what the new do-over narrative should be.

Correct analysis. Thank you.

[BasqueArch]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.

Correct and true. Thank you.
It's hard to be wrong when you are right.

Et al.

[BasqueArch]

Originally Posted by Fonebone

To know what is right and not do it is the worse cowardice _Confucius

02-09-2017 08:45 AM EST 558 signed and verified

It's hard to be right when you are wrong.
"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Fonebone

Truth is precious and divine ;
too rich a pearl for carnal swine .
-Samual Butler

Idioms http://www.finedictionary.com/swine.html

Cast pearls before swine - If you cast pearls before swine, you offer something
of value to someone who doesn't appreciate it- 'swine' are 'pigs'.

I interprete your post as me casting pearls (i.e., my information is precious, good, of rare quality) and you being swine (i.e. uninterested in good information, or unappreciative of good infoprmation).

That would be an unusually honest confession.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Myriad

...Not about how the New Investigation should be brought about or conducted (they never discuss or argue with one another about that, any more than they discuss it with us), but about what transformation it should herald; ...

Do they at least discuss it within any of the separate denominations? I cannot recall from the top of my head having any information to that effect. Sure, we may not be privy to much of what they discuss internally, but some stuff leaks all the time.

Originally Posted by Myriad

...what the new do-over narrative should be.

Aren't you a sunny optimist!
To the best of my knowledge, there exists no comprehensive narrative of the events of 9/11 - all three sites - within any of the denominations. Just vague hints at disjoint elements and catchwords they want that evasive narrative to contain.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Whoohoo! 643 morons have signed.

20 hours later: 650.

With 8 days to go, at that pace, they'll make it to 720 or something like that.

During the week from February 06 to Feb 13, they got 78 signatures per day. This was the strongest of the three weeks so far.

Could they have maintained that pace for the entire 30 days, they could have dreamt of over 2.3% of the target.

The strongest single day was Feb 07 with 260 signatures.
This on every day would land them at under 8% of the target.

The second strongest single day was Feb 09 with 106 signatures - 3% of what they need every day.


Fonebone said it best: "embarrassing and pathetic"-

[benthamitemetric]

If the release of two fulsome, independent WTC 7 collapse investigation reports from the Aegis insurance litigation wasn't enough to lay bare how hollow AE911Truth's claims have been all these years, the Plasco building collapse may have been. While diehards like Tony grasp for straws, over all truther activity at their usual internet discussion boards seems to have plummeted over the last year, with barely anything but some laughable new conspiracies about plasco from the usual suspects in recent weeks.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Oystein

20 hours later: 650.

24 hours later: 693

[gerdbonk]

Edge of the seat excitement.

[John Jones]

OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?

[DGM]

Originally Posted by John Jones

OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?

It's certainly a nail biter............

Like everything a "truther" does, it's half-assed .

[pgimeno]

It may have been announced somewhere. It has raised in by 43 votes, from 693 to 736, in 2 hours.

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...ion/graph2.php

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by John Jones

OMFG! OMFG!

How will this end?

With a controlled demolition, Obviously

738; I'll throw some streamers when it hits the knee weakening power of 1,000 signatures, Give or take a few dozen dupes.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Would anyone sign a new 9/11 petition at the White House website, to investigate why Truthers don't have brain cells and how the function with empty skulls?
I am thinking about sponcering that petition.

[Nay_Sayer]

823: The masses¹ have spoken

^[1]See instances of multiple votes.

[gerdbonk]

What about all those corrupted citizens who have been paid to not vote!!!

[ProBonoShill]

Originally Posted by DGM

It's certainly a nail biter............

Like everything a "truther" does, it's half-assed .

Yep the only thing twoofers excel at......failure.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Jaytje46

Sign the petition y'all!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...-ae911truthorg

Quote:

Open a new investigation into the events of 911 and incorporate the forensic evidence offered by ae911truth.org.

At least the investigation will be short... there is no forensic evidence offered by the nuts and dolts at ae911t; a delusional lie by ae911t to fool failed paranoid followers.

Failed followers, up to 994 dolts fooled by a lie. Two days to go to find some more of the few, the dumbed down, 9/11 truth followers celebrating overwhelming ignorance for 15 years.

[Fonebone]

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

Would anyone sign a new 9/11 petition at the White House website, to investigate why Truthers don't have brain cells and how the function with empty skulls?
I am thinking about sponcering that petition.

Tell you what buzzy, why don't you write the petition and post the verbiage
here for inspection. If your petition appears at the "we the people " .GOV
site I'll sign / verify and volunteer as your number one investigatee.
Fonebone

[beachnut]

Where is ae911t hiding their forensic evidence? They are liars, and fool those who don't do science, the fringe few who are gullible. Why is 9/11 truth anti-science, using opinions based on paranoia and conspiracy theories to generate fake evidence? Richard Gage has fooled people with the claim of having evidence, the insane lie from the movement based on the believers overwhelming ignorance.

[Cosmic Yak]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

It already is a religious concept. They way the phrase is used is almost exactly the same as "Amen", or "Hail Mary Mother of Grace", or "Allah Akbar".

They don't want a new investigation, they want an official stamp on their beliefs. This is not exclusive to 9-11, the JFK assassination actually got a second investigation, which was a waste of time, and mostly served to give lousy evidence credibility.

The 9-11 CTs (all of them) are rooted in the collapse of the towers and #7, which came down on live TV, and 99% of humans had never seen anything like this before. When we invade Iraq, the Truthers start to back-engineer events to attempt to marry them with whichever stupid theory they've dreamed up. We have seen them all right here on this board.

It is very much a religious belief, and is defended in ways that are identical to those who attempt to present their spiritual beliefs as scientific facts with the same outcome: People who share their beliefs agree, while everyone else shakes their heads.

I keep saying that anybody can investigate 9-11. New York is still there, most of the first responders, survivors, and eye witnesses are still alive. The evidence from all of the investigations can be viewed with a FOIA request. You can hire an engineering firm to run computer simulations of every scenario possible to see which one has the best fit.

The fact that almost nobody has done this on their own reveals just how serious the 9-11 Truthers really are.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Good points here. It's interesting how so many of the truthers here attempt to pin the blame for their inaction on the skeptics, as if we had some kind of evil influence over them and their collective initiative.
Personally, I would take it as an incentive, rather than an obstacle, if a group of scoffers on a forum were mocking my deeply-held beliefs, especially if those beliefs- if proven- would uncover a monstrous injustice. I would be doubly motivated to investigate, on my own if necessary, primarily to prove them wrong, and then to right the wrongs.

fonebone: I note that you style yourself "an independent investigator". Have you taken any of the steps detailed by Axman300? What form has your investigation taken?

fonebone: if you've got time to get snarky with Crazy Chainsaw, you've got time to answer this, and it would be much more productive for everyone.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by Fonebone

... Take thou thy arms and come with me,
for we must quit ourselves as men,
and strive to aid our cause although we be of two.
Great is the strength of feeble arms combined,
and we can combat even with the brave .

--Homer's iliad Bk XIII Line 289

A fool and his money are soon parted, by those with fast tounges and loose hands.

[MostlyDead]

February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by MostlyDead

February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?

Yes but I don't get a check, I requested pay in beautiful naked women, it was a mistake, do you know how many mouths I now have to feed, should have said beautiful Naked Intellect employable naked women all they send me now a days are the mindless clones.
I laid some out in the yard as stepping stones so I don't have to walk in the mud, where the grass has been resown.
The Reptile overlords take good care of me.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by MostlyDead

February 21, 9 AM EST: 996 sigs. There were actually more signers for that flat-earth petition.

Is anyone else's shill check late this month?

Not for those of us who signed the flat earth petition to make the truthers look even crazier.

Dave

[MostlyDead]

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

Yes but I don't get a check, I requested pay in beautiful naked women, it was a mistake, do you know how many mouths I now have to feed, should have said beautiful Naked Intellect employable naked women all they send me now a days are the mindless clones.
I laid some out in the yard as stepping stones so I don't have to walk in the mud, where the grass has been resown.
The Reptile overlords take good care of me.

Check their browsing history, specifically for the White House petition site.

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Not for those of us who signed the flat earth petition to make the truthers look even crazier.

Dave

Does that get you twice the shill rate or shill rate squared?

[Fonebone]

Originally Posted by pgimeno

If it keeps this pace, it might manage to reach 1% of the target number of signatures, which is, surprisingly, less than 50% of the number of members in AE911T.

I wouldn't count on that, though.

The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.
Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Fonebone

The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.
Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?

I question your use of the word "more".

Dave

[pgimeno]

It's at 997 now. But it's more telling how many have *not* signed.

From the 2560 members that the ae911truth.org homepage shows as of this writing, we know positively that more than 1500 have not signed, probably even many more.

That's how much these architects and engineers actually care. You can't allege cowardice, since they were willing to put their reputation at stake by signing the AE911T petition in the first place.

I suspect many of these have actually had second thoughts but do not care enough to cancel their membership. Or perhaps they are able to see through what this new administration actually wants, and know that it's a waste of time. Or both. Let's not forget that it's the same party that brought Cheney, Rice, Bush, Rumsfeld, Giuliani (who seems to be going to take a prominent place) and others. Whoever thinks they are interested in "draining the swamp" is self deluded.

(Yes, sorry, my previous post was in the wrong thread, I've reported it hoping for it to be moved)

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Fonebone

The petition ratchet has been frozen at 996 signed/verified for 24 hours.

Not true.
Only 21 hours ago, beachnut reported 994.
Now it's 997.

It's not frozen, just very very slow. Or, as you put it so aptly:

Originally Posted by Fonebone

...embarrassing and pathetic

Originally Posted by Fonebone

Four votes short of 1000.
--IOW-- just short of the one percent of the total required for the White House to acknowledge.
More skulduggery ?

Why would anyone bother? Do you imagine that, say, 1.1% is significantly less embarrassing and pathetic than 0.996%?