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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 18th June 2018, 02:44 AM   #721
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Wow. You visit Italy and then you insult their country whilst there.

The Ugly American abroad strikes again!
Wow. THIS is your take on Stacyhs's little snippet? That she's insulting Italy?

Any normal person would read this as self-criticism, of a foreigner who is struggling with what to a local would be trivial.

Once again, the guilter-PR campaign strikes, turning the plain meaning of something into something else.
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Old 18th June 2018, 02:56 AM   #722
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It doesn't change the facts at all. Prisoners on Death Row wishing to commute their sentences to Life without Parole instead do go before a board for a Clemency Hearing, using the parole board facilities.

If you recall Numbers and LondonJohn argued vociferously that there was no such hearing and that all such appeals were done via the attorneys.

(I note Numbers is now pretending that he knew about the clemency hearings all along.)

No. What happened in that case was that the prisoner's attorneys appealed to the state governor for clemency (and there were strong grounds in this particular instance: the other participants in the murder were not given the death penalty, the man was very young at the time of the crime, and had been on death row for almost 20 years (during which time he'd apparently been a model prisoner), and there were other problems concerning the original trial). The state governor then asked the parole board to give him a recommendation as to whether the sentence should be commuted. And as part of this process, the parole board held a meeting with the prisoner himself. The parole board then made its recommendation for clemency to the state governor, and the governor accepted their recommendation and grated clemency (with a reduction to life without parole.......).

So it's only in extremely rare circumstances that a prisoner on death row gets to appear in front of a parole hearing. And that's when - as I said before - one of the very few people with the power to change the sentence of a death row prisoner (either a state governor, or the US President, or the Supreme Court) directs the parole board to make a recommendation. Those with the power to grant clemency can (and often do) make their decisions without involving the parole board.

So the situation is this: prisoners on death row cannot seek a downgrading of their sentence from the parole board. What they can do (having exhausted all appeals, usually) is to appeal (or, more accurately, for their attorneys to appeal) for clemency - usually to the state governor first, and then to the Supreme Court. Very few appeals for clemency are ever granted, and almost all of them involve extraordinary circumstances (as in the case under discussion). And of those appeals for clemency, only a proportion of them involve the parole board.
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Old 18th June 2018, 02:58 AM   #723
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Wow. You visit Italy and then you insult their country whilst there.

The Ugly American abroad strikes again!

Uhhhh..... just how has she "insulted their country"? What a strange, blinkered assessment to make of that post.
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Old 18th June 2018, 07:21 AM   #724
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Uhhhh..... just how has she "insulted their country"? What a strange, blinkered assessment to make of that post.
The guilter-PR campaign used to go on and on about how those who believe in RS's and AK's innocence are anti-Italy.

All that despite that very same guilter-PR campaign declaring that Italy's judiciary can be influenced by or meddled with by various combinations of Mafia, Masons or American media interests.

Those who believe in RS's and AK's innocence are very critical of the court process from 2009 onwards, but in the main are satisfied with the 2015 Supreme Court outcome - acquittal and exoneration of the pair.

Vixen doesn't actually believe what she posts about this, it's just that this "innocentisi hate Italy" talking point is her way of feeling she belongs to the guilter-group, by chucking into a post a worn talking point.....

..... obviously with no thought, that it had nothing to do with Stacyhs's observation about Italian locks and toilets.
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Old 18th June 2018, 11:41 AM   #725
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
No. What happened in that case was that the prisoner's attorneys appealed to the state governor for clemency (and there were strong grounds in this particular instance: the other participants in the murder were not given the death penalty, the man was very young at the time of the crime, and had been on death row for almost 20 years (during which time he'd apparently been a model prisoner), and there were other problems concerning the original trial). The state governor then asked the parole board to give him a recommendation as to whether the sentence should be commuted. And as part of this process, the parole board held a meeting with the prisoner himself. The parole board then made its recommendation for clemency to the state governor, and the governor accepted their recommendation and grated clemency (with a reduction to life without parole.......).

So it's only in extremely rare circumstances that a prisoner on death row gets to appear in front of a parole hearing. And that's when - as I said before - one of the very few people with the power to change the sentence of a death row prisoner (either a state governor, or the US President, or the Supreme Court) directs the parole board to make a recommendation. Those with the power to grant clemency can (and often do) make their decisions without involving the parole board.

So the situation is this: prisoners on death row cannot seek a downgrading of their sentence from the parole board. What they can do (having exhausted all appeals, usually) is to appeal (or, more accurately, for their attorneys to appeal) for clemency - usually to the state governor first, and then to the Supreme Court. Very few appeals for clemency are ever granted, and almost all of them involve extraordinary circumstances (as in the case under discussion). And of those appeals for clemency, only a proportion of them involve the parole board.
One comment, LJ.. in the case of Federal clemency requests it is only the President who can issue one. The Supreme Court has no involvement. In some state level clemency cases the State Supreme Court has been involved, but that is fairly rare AFAICT.

FWIW... I actually forgot how we ended going down this path and so had to backtrack a few pages to find the beginning;

Originally Posted by LondonJohn
Incidentally, if I'm not mistaken, in most (if not all) US states which have the death penalty, all those convicted of death penalty offences DO indeed have an automatic right to appeal - this was clearly introduced as another attempt to safeguard against the possibility of wrongful convictions when the punishment stakes were so high (and, of course, ultimately irreversible).
Originally Posted by Vixen
The same conditions apply. It has to be done correctly.

The appeal is between thirteen to fifteen stages. It includes admitting your guilt, showing remorse and apologising to your victim's family.

I wish the Kercher trial could have been in the USA death penalty state, perhaps Texas, as I would just LOVE to hear Knox and Sollecito do all of the above.

Even then, it is still a decision to be made by a panel.
Obviously Vixen went down this path so she could make her nasty/snarky comment highlighted above. But in doing so she make a big mistake. She claimed the process used in a PAROLE hearing is used in an APPEAL. This is a patently false claim. It really wasn't a big deal except it was key to the swipe she wanted to direct towards Amanda and Raffaele. And here we are, some three pages after the claim and she's still flailing about, doing everything she can to avoid simply admitting she had it wrong.

For the record, clemency requests are NOT part of the appeal process. Clemency requests are considered an executive act of mercy on a convicted felon. Clemency is NOT a guaranteed right like appeals are.
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Old 18th June 2018, 11:54 AM   #726
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Obviously Vixen went down this path so she could make her nasty/snarky comment highlighted above. But in doing so she make a big mistake. She claimed the process used in a PAROLE hearing is used in an APPEAL. This is a patently false claim. It really wasn't a big deal except it was key to the swipe she wanted to direct towards Amanda and Raffaele. And here we are, some three pages after the claim and she's still flailing about, doing everything she can to avoid simply admitting she had it wrong.
The last three pages have had nothing to do with the trials Raffaele and Amanda faced.

The last three pages have been to deal with a persistent poster who does not let facts stand in the way of an opportunity to slur or slutshame people.

The medium is the message.
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Old 18th June 2018, 02:10 PM   #727
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The last three pages have had nothing to do with the trials Raffaele and Amanda faced.

The last three pages have been to deal with a persistent poster who does not let facts stand in the way of an opportunity to slur or slutshame people.

The medium is the message.
Of course they didn't. Vixen just wanted to share with us her fantasy scenario of Amanda and Raffaele groveling for forgiveness for a crime they didn't commit. In the process she named the wrong process under which this would have happened had they been guilty of the crime. She could have done the same thing but said "...during their parole hearing..." and saved us three pages. Then again, she could also have just admitted she meant parole hearing and also saved us three pages. But admitting an error, even a minor one, is not something Vixen handles well and, as Stacy likes to say, there is an entertainment value to it.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:00 AM   #728
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I came across this definition on Wikipedia and, oh I don't know, for some reason it made me think of this thread.

******** asymmetry principle

The amount of energy needed to refute ******** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.

I'd link to the page but as it contains a bad word I don't think the software here will allow it.
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Old 20th June 2018, 12:33 PM   #729
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Wow. You visit Italy and then you insult their country whilst there.

The Ugly American abroad strikes again!
I'd say it's more like the Ugly Brit/Finn twists a post beyond recognition once again. I was not criticizing Italy but merely mentioning two observations of things that occurred that were relevant to the Kercher case . And, if I were the "Ugly American" who dislikes Italy, it's hardly likely that I'd keep returning to it time and again including plans for next spring.

Try again, Vixen. No one here falls for your nonsense. We know you far too well.
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:59 PM   #730
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'd say it's more like the Ugly Brit/Finn twists a post beyond recognition once again. I was not criticizing Italy but merely mentioning two observations of things that occurred that were relevant to the Kercher case . And, if I were the "Ugly American" who dislikes Italy, it's hardly likely that I'd keep returning to it time and again including plans for next spring.

Try again, Vixen. No one here falls for your nonsense. We know you far too well.
I don't know anyone who has to tell their sister or roommate how to flush the toilet. Perhaps it is a deficiency specific to Americans?
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Old Yesterday, 07:22 AM   #731
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't know anyone who has to tell their sister or roommate how to flush the toilet. Perhaps it is a deficiency specific to Americans?
At least you are consistent; still misrepresenting what was said to meet your own bias. Read what I wrote again. It had nothing to do with how to flush a toilet. Perhaps reading comprehension is a deficiency specific to Brits/Finns?

Interestingly, not once have we observed the same peculiarity with Swiss toilets.
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Old Yesterday, 03:38 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
At least you are consistent; still misrepresenting what was said to meet your own bias. Read what I wrote again. It had nothing to do with how to flush a toilet. Perhaps reading comprehension is a deficiency specific to Brits/Finns?

Interestingly, not once have we observed the same peculiarity with Swiss toilets.

Stacyhs, you need to write an urgent academic paper in this matter and send it direct to the new Italian regime, including fascist Bongiorno, so that she can get an immediate full pardon effected.
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Old Yesterday, 07:14 PM   #733
whoanellie
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stacyhs, you need to write an urgent academic paper in this matter and send it direct to the new Italian regime, including fascist Bongiorno, so that she can get an immediate full pardon effected.
Huh?
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Old Yesterday, 10:38 PM   #734
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stacyhs, you need to write an urgent academic paper in this matter and send it direct to the new Italian regime, including fascist Bongiorno, so that she can get an immediate full pardon effected.
You're so cute when you're attempting to be clever.
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Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM   #735
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Vixen, you are wrong. You are wrong in more ways than I can politely describe. Give it up.
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