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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM   #881
Stacyhs
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It was also "politically smart" of Hitler to give the German people someone to blame all their troubles on.
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #882
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It was also "politically smart" of Hitler to give the German people someone to blame all their troubles on.

While we are Godwinning, what is the complaint about that? The method either worked or it didn't.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
While we are Godwinning, what is the complaint about that? The method either worked or it didn't.
Godwinning or not, it's the truth. Somehow, I'm not surprised you don't see what the complaint is about that.
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 PM   #884
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
While we are Godwinning, what is the complaint about that? The method either worked or it didn't.
I think the rule about 'Godwinning' ended the minute Stubby McBonespurs called neo-Nazis "fine people" (and he did... none of this bunk about "not everyone", because every one of the right wing protesters was comfortable protesting under flags with the swastika).

If the leader of your party approves of nazis, and you remain a member of that party (even supporting said leader), any accusation of naziism can no longer be dismissed by the rule of Godwin.
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Old Yesterday, 11:30 PM   #885
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Nothing to see here... nothing suspicious. Move along...

From: The Guardian
Vertol Systems Inc, an Oregon-based aviation company that DeSantis used to fly asylum seekers to the affluent, liberal-leaning Massachusetts island, has connections to DeSantis’s political allies and has donated money to various campaigns...DeSantis’ administration has not released details of the contract it awarded to Vertol, or disclosed why Vertol was selected to conduct the relocation program, or answered inquiries as to whether multiple bids were solicited in regards to the program, as is required by law

Maybe if the flight information was contained on a laptop hard drive dropped off at a computer repair shop the republicans might actually be concerned...
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Old Yesterday, 11:32 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Nothing to see here... nothing suspicious. Move along...

From: The Guardian
Vertol Systems Inc, an Oregon-based aviation company that DeSantis used to fly asylum seekers to the affluent, liberal-leaning Massachusetts island, has connections to DeSantis’s political allies and has donated money to various campaigns...DeSantis’ administration has not released details of the contract it awarded to Vertol, or disclosed why Vertol was selected to conduct the relocation program, or answered inquiries as to whether multiple bids were solicited in regards to the program, as is required by law

Maybe if the flight information was contained on a laptop hard drive dropped off at a computer repair shop the republicans might actually be concerned...
Wasn't Vertol the only US aviation company that flies Russian aircraft?
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Old Yesterday, 11:40 PM   #887
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Nothing to see here... nothing suspicious. Move along...

From: The Guardian
Vertol Systems Inc, an Oregon-based aviation company that DeSantis used to fly asylum seekers to the affluent, liberal-leaning Massachusetts island, has connections to DeSantis’s political allies and has donated money to various campaigns...DeSantis’ administration has not released details of the contract it awarded to Vertol, or disclosed why Vertol was selected to conduct the relocation program, or answered inquiries as to whether multiple bids were solicited in regards to the program, as is required by law

Maybe if the flight information was contained on a laptop hard drive dropped off at a computer repair shop the republicans might actually be concerned...
Why does this not surprise me?

Quote:
Documents show James Montgomerie is the owner of Vertol Systems Company Inc., an aviation business first registered in Oregon back in 1996, and later converted to a Florida business in 2021.

According to campaign finance records from OpenSecrets, Montgomerie contributed $5,000 in 2017 to the North Florida Neighbors Super PAC in support of Republican candidate Neal Dunn for Congress. Montgomerie’s company also made a separate $5,000 contribution.

One of Dunn’s platforms as outlined on the North Florida Neighbors website is stopping illegal immigration.

Montgomerie is also listed as a $2,700 contributor to Matt Gaetz’s 2016 campaign for a U.S. House seat.
Quote:
10 Investigates also found where Vertol Systems Company is listed as a managing member of a Florida-based company called Zeppelin Holdings.

According to the Department of Justice, the owner of that company, Jay Odom, was sentenced to six months in federal prison in 2013 after he was convicted for “causing a presidential campaign committee to make a false statement to the Federal Election Commission (FEC)."
Quote:
Odom admitted he knew this activity was illegal, the DOJ said in 2013.
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/in...6-22a3db1ccdf9
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 PM   #888
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But who cares? Tell me why it matters?
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Old Yesterday, 11:58 PM   #889
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think the rule about 'Godwinning' ended the minute Stubby McBonespurs called neo-Nazis "fine people" (and he did... none of this bunk about "not everyone", because every one of the right wing protesters was comfortable protesting under flags with the swastika).

If the leader of your party approves of nazis, and you remain a member of that party (even supporting said leader), any accusation of naziism can no longer be dismissed by the rule of Godwin.

Yup!

Standing with nazis makes you a nazi
Agreeing with nazis makes you a nazi
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Old Today, 12:17 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup!

Standing with nazis makes you a nazi
Agreeing with nazis makes you a nazi

It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
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Old Today, 01:44 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
True, it just makes you evil, and a fascist!
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Old Today, 05:11 AM   #892
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup!

Standing with nazis makes you a nazi
Agreeing with nazis makes you a nazi
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
True, it just makes you evil, and a fascist!
Hitler started the Holocaust mess by dehumanizing the Jews.

After the Jews were seen as subhumans who were the source of Germany's problems it was just short step to rounding them up and then shooting and gassing them.

We have seen migrants decried here as dirty, disease carrying drug pushers. We have even seen endorsed the notion that they should be rounded up and shipped back to their home countries without regard for their human rights or their physical condition.

The image of old Jewish women packed in rail cars surely comes to mind.

In line with this process of de-humanization of migrants we are getting reports of private citizens acting out this hate filled philosophy and shooting migrants as if doing so was sport.

I think it's well past the time we start calling out these poorly closeted Nazis for what they are!

Last edited by arayder; Today at 06:53 AM.
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Old Today, 06:15 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
While we are Godwinning, what is the complaint about that? The method either worked or it didn't.
another term that you don't know the meaning of...
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Old Today, 07:13 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
Actually, I think it does. I don't think you can espouse one of the greatest evils of all time and pretend it doesn't really mean what you just said you mean.
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Old Today, 08:12 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Actually, I think it does. I don't think you can espouse one of the greatest evils of all time and pretend it doesn't really mean what you just said you mean.
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
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Old Today, 08:20 AM   #896
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Actually, I think it does. I don't think you can espouse one of the greatest evils of all time and pretend it doesn't really mean what you just said you mean.
Think about. . .

If you live in Florida and are one of the few minority populations DeSantis has yet to devalue you have to figure that it's just a matter of time before he runs down his laundry list of baddies and gets to you.

And if you are one of the otherwise mainstream folks who has the temerity to stand up for the groups DeSantis has **** upon you know you are on the list too.

Sound familiar, folks?
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Old Today, 08:22 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
The subject here is not what someone in the 1930's might have thought then (though I think there's room for argument even there, another issue of ends and means), but the character of Nazis in 2022. I contend that if you support the level of evil that is now known to everyone, there is no ledger-balancing act that can tip you out of the bad person column.
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Old Today, 08:26 AM   #898
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The subject here is not what someone in the 1930's might have thought then (though I think there's room for argument even there, another issue of ends and means), but the character of Nazis in 2022. I contend that if you support the level of evil that is now known to everyone, there is no ledger-balancing act that can tip you out of the bad person column.

So, I know this is an odd question. And you know what, I don't wish to see you take a card. Please respond via pm, and elaborate on if you see me as a "bad person".
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Old Today, 08:33 AM   #899
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Actually, I think it does. I don't think you can espouse one of the greatest evils of all time and pretend it doesn't really mean what you just said you mean.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
Oh, my God!

You say the unaware Nazis are supposed to be excused because while they knew about all the very public persecutions of the Jews, they didn't know about the death camps?

Bull!

They saw the "underpinnings" of Naziism when they witnessed Jews being persecuted and ousted from every aspect of German life.

They don't get a pass.

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Old Today, 08:38 AM   #900
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So DeSnarkis has nazis on his team. No surprise. He needs all the followers he can get.

Does anybody care to mention the Rule of So? Or is that one defunct?
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Old Today, 08:53 AM   #901
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The subject here is not what someone in the 1930's might have thought then (though I think there's room for argument even there, another issue of ends and means), but the character of Nazis in 2022. I contend that if you support the level of evil that is now known to everyone, there is no ledger-balancing act that can tip you out of the bad person column.
Could it be we are seeing a trial run of the excuses to be offered when the Trump/DeSantis crew get outed for their crimes?
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Old Today, 12:09 PM   #902
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
Did you just literally say being a Nazi isn't.... bad
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Old Today, 12:14 PM   #903
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
* At risk of going off topic (but I promise I will return to it in this post) *

No. Perhaps that was at one time conventional wisdom, it is no longer the case.

While many Germans might not have known actual wholesale gassing and extermination of Jews was taking place, in what became known as the Holocaust, they certainly knew that the Jews were being persecuted. From 1933 and for the next decade, more than 400 decrees and regulations on all aspects of their lives were enacted, gradually but systematically stripping them of rights and property. The laws weren't just nationwide ones either - state, regional, and municipal officials also issued many decrees in their own communities. Every German, Nazi or not , knew what was happening to the Jews..... you'd have to be living in a cave in Pottenstein or the Untersberg Massif not to have known this was happening; that their businesses were being destroyed; that they were being taken from their homes or being rounded up in the streets, loaded onto railway cattle trucks and shipped out, most never to be seen again. Many Jews were turned in to authorities by neighbours, employees, employers and other associates. Many Jews were simply murdered by Nazi citizens.

Similar things are happening to immigrants, asylum seekers and brown skinned migrants in the US. People like DeSantis and Abbot are making laws to persecute and impact on people they don't like - i.e. brown people and immigrants. As a student of the history of pre-WW2 Europe, I see a lot of this stuff as looking very familiar. People like you (whether you realise it or not), who call them 'diseased', 'dirty', 'infected' 'criminals' etc, are doing exactly what the citizen supporters of the Nazi Party were doing Germany in the 1930's - helping to lay the foundations for other members of the citizenry to attack and or kill people in the streets for nothing more than their perceived subhumanity.

https://www.adl.org/the-anti-immigra...ment-in-the-us

Anti-immigrant fervour, once relegated to more extreme quarters, has been increasingly mainstreamed over the last ten years.

Anti-immigrant groups and activists use social media to demonize immigrants and get their messages across to the public.

Anti-immigrant groups’ bigotry has also been normalized by the media, which provides a context- free platform for anti-immigrant spokespeople and their talking points.
The Fat Orange Turd included senior officials such as Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller who were known for promoting hardline anti-immigrant policies. He also hired people with close ties to well-known anti-immigrant groups like FAIR and CIS throughout the executive branch. He has referred to immigrants and refugees as “an invasion”, demonized them by claiming they were all rapists and murderers, telling the crowd at Texas, political rally that “They (immigrants) carve you up with a knife.” He declares the source of immigrants as "****-hole countries" and issued an EO to try to ban immigrants from Islamic countries (by EO).

The Fat Orange Turd set the stage for what DeSantis and Abbott did, and they are acting out the play.
.
.
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Old Today, 12:15 PM   #904
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I see we are in #notallnazis territory.
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Old Today, 12:19 PM   #905
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According to previous statements, it's just the annoying Nazis that would be bad.
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Old Today, 03:44 PM   #906
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This is the definition of nazismWP:
Quote:
Nazism is a form of fascism,[2][3][4][5] with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and the use of eugenics into its creed.
It doesn't matter if you knew about the genocide. There's hardly a more succinct expression of evil.

Oh wait, there is a more succinct expression...
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It might make you a Nazi...but that in itself does not make you bad.
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Old Today, 06:06 PM   #907
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But who cares? Tell me why it matters?
Why? You'll only handwave it away.
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Old Today, 06:19 PM   #908
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yup!

Standing with nazis makes you a nazi
Agreeing with nazis makes you a nazi
I'm watching a riveting French drama series called "Un Village Français" about the German occupation of France from 1940-1944. It's interesting because the characters, both German and French, are mostly shown as being neither all bad nor all good, but as people with human faults. The exceptions are the Gestapo and SS who are just evil. It also shows the French who cooperated willingly with the Germans due to their antisemitism and lust for power. They may as well have been Nazis.
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