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7th November 2017, 06:56 PM | #441 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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8th November 2017, 02:02 AM | #443 |
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Scientific progress goes *BOINK* -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist |
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8th November 2017, 02:06 AM | #444 |
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I am sure you do.
which "these papers" ?? The ESA press release is about the Argawal et al. paper ... and ???? Maybe you should edumacate us on dusty plasmas, as you seem to be the expert on it??? |
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8th November 2017, 07:28 AM | #445 |
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8th November 2017, 10:05 AM | #446 |
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8th November 2017, 02:39 PM | #447 |
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Missed this lie!
Sol88 replied to jonesdave116 describes what the article and paper state which is nothing to do with "just SUBLIMATION" as in the Skorov paper ! The proposed mechanisms are not in the Skorov paper.
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10th November 2017, 03:12 AM | #448 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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10th November 2017, 03:16 AM | #449 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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10th November 2017, 07:44 AM | #450 |
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Scientific progress goes *BOINK* -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist |
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10th November 2017, 07:52 AM | #451 |
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10th November 2017, 04:19 PM | #452 |
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Ummm...you do know the mainstream have no plausible explanation unless it includes the grains are charged and act like a dusty plasma!
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J. Agarwal V. Della Corte P. D. Feldman B. Geiger S. Merouane
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Yu. V. Skorov1, L. Rezac1, P. Hartogh1 and H. U. Keller2 So there you have it, sublimating gas can’t do it and no gas emissions observed for this event! But we see dust?? How does a dirtysnowball achieve this feat of cunning? Oh, I see “dark gas” |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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10th November 2017, 06:39 PM | #453 |
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Still, a weekends' worth of research should be able to let you figure out if instant levitation is possible. A quick look at the Nordheim electrostatic paper sees them suggesting levitation of grains from the sunlit side at <50nm. Possibly larger on the dark side, but still sub-micron. A look at the dust data from the Agarwal paper shows far higher dust sizes. Therefore, in my view, electrostatically charged dust cannot have been responsible for this outburst. Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity Nordheim, T. A. et al. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3206331500238X Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 03 Agarwal, J. et al https://academic.oup.com/mnras/artic...orage-in-comet |
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11th November 2017, 02:23 AM | #454 |
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11th November 2017, 06:57 PM | #455 |
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There is always the chance that it is difficult to model certain things in almost zero G, when one cannot replicate zero G in the lab. Certainly, it needs more thought, and modelling. However, to say that x is not possible due to y, is overstretching the mark. IMHO.
ETA: IOW, I'm agreeing with Tusenfem. |
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12th November 2017, 01:32 AM | #456 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 01:35 AM | #457 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 01:56 AM | #458 |
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But you’re still stumped
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And
Quote:
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Cliffs collapsing? Cracks getting bigger? And vents or orrifices? Flogging a dead horse. |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 05:52 AM | #459 |
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why would I (mainstream) have a problem, there are other groups modeling gas and dust and they can replicate the observations, as was shown during the EPSC meeting in Riga (although I cannot remember the name of the woman presenting it).
About the Argawal event, I do not agree about the gas. Wehn I look at the Rosina data and the MIP data I see a clear increase in density already starting the day before the event (3 July 2016, 07:50 UT) and actually peaks at noon. I would have to read the Argawal paper again to see what they claim about gas. And actually we are working on a dusty plasma physics paper. |
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12th November 2017, 06:41 AM | #460 |
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The ALICE spectrometer's slit was over the outburst for 3 seconds. It doesn't measure H2O and CO2 'directly', as I understand it, unlike MIRO and VIRTIS. What happens is:
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Stern, S. A. et al. https://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0603/0603585.pdf Given that the column was optically thick, and the slit was only over the column for 3 seconds, then that is probably why they got no detections. And is probably why Agarwal et al have no problem in modelling scenarios that do involve gas release. Basically, because there are no other possible scenarios. |
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12th November 2017, 06:48 AM | #461 |
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Nope. All these things either have been seen, or are very likely to occur, given what we know about the comet. What will not occur are electric discharges, that would be obvious to a number of instruments. What will also not occur, is instantaneous outbursts due to electrostatic levitation of dust particles of many microns in size.
So, let's hear the Sol88 version of events, backed up by scientific evidence. Not forgetting the following, which you have conveniently skipped over:
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12th November 2017, 09:54 AM | #462 |
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I don’t make many technical posts in this thread for fear of embarrassing myself in front those more knowledgable, such as jonesdave, RC and of course tusenfem. I have posted about the EC comet density error, which by itself sinks the EC hypothesis. So I’d like to consider the EC proponents' arguments from 40 thousand feet. I had a concept in mind for years before I learned the proper term, consilience, from a post elsewhere by JayUtah. Consilience means measurements or observations made by disparate methods or disciplines should be in agreement, for a given phenomenon. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consilience. From the Wiki on lack of consilience:
IMO this a great explanation of the god-of-the-gaps and false dilemma fallacies in the EC argument. And here’s the nub: it doesn’t matter if the EC proponentl is right on a given point. Hey, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while . The principle of consilience teaches that an error will, in the long run, advance learning. Either the new measuremnt was done incorrectly and we fix the measurement problem, or we have an opportunity to learn something more about the science. Science wins either way. There’s a wonderful Niels Bohr quote IIRC “At last we have a contradiction. Now we have an opportunity to make progress.” |
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12th November 2017, 10:22 AM | #463 |
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12th November 2017, 10:25 AM | #464 |
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12th November 2017, 01:37 PM | #465 |
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Sol88: Cites a paper that is nothing to do with his delusions about comets
13 November 2017 Sol88: Cites a paper that is nothing to do with his delusions about comets.
No idiocy of comets are rocks. No stupidity of these rocks being blasted from the Earth in recent times. No ignorant fantasy of electrical discharges. ETA: Added idiocy of not knowing what "expected" means ! This is a January 2013 review paper published before the Rosetta rendezvous. The dusty plasma being considered is the mainstream coma and tail produced from comet nuclei made of ices and dust via sublimation. The paper starts with the importance of observations of dusty plasma in coma and tails dating from 1985 and then goes trough the theory of electrostatic charging of dust particles, etc. |
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12th November 2017, 01:41 PM | #466 |
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Sol88: A lie about the T. I. Gombosi paper being about surface grains
13 November 2107 Sol88: A lie about the T. I. Gombosi paper being about dust and ice grains being ejected from the surface.
Negatively charged nano-grains at 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by T. I. Gombosi1, J. L. Burch2, andM. Horányi3 is about grains in the coma. |
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12th November 2017, 01:44 PM | #467 |
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Sol88: Lies about "mainstream have no plausible explanation"
13 November 2017 Sol88: A lie about "mainstream have no plausible explanation".
13 November 2017 Sol88: A lie about "the grains are charged and act like a dusty plasma" for dust ejection from comet nuclei. The dust grains are observed to charged after they leave the surface and are a dusty plasma in the coma and tail not on the surface. 13 November 2017 Sol88: Lies about his citations - an outburst is not general outgassing. Evidence of sub-surface energy storage in comet 67P from the outburst of 2016 July 03 by J. Agarwal V. Della Corte P. D. Feldman B. Geiger S. Merouane is not about non-outburst ejection of dust ! Is near-surface ice the driver of dust activity on 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by Yu. V. Skorov1, L. Rezac1, P. Hartogh1 and H. U. Keller2 is not about outbursts ! |
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12th November 2017, 01:49 PM | #468 |
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Sol88: Still lying about the comet science he cites
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12th November 2017, 02:20 PM | #470 |
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Interestingly, Yu. V. Skorov is also an author on a paper that cites his simulated results in the context of observational evidence of ejected granular material including "Decimetre sized chunks".
Seasonal mass transfer on the nucleus of comet 67P/Chuyumov-Gerasimenko
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09/2017: Cliffs versus plains: Can ROSINA/COPS and OSIRIS data of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko in autumn 2014 constrain inhomogeneous outgassing?
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12th November 2017, 04:46 PM | #471 |
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Electrostatic??
Mmmmm....I’m under the impression the plasma is extremely dynamic! And’ since the dust is coupled to this highly dynamic plasma simple 1+1=2 maths ain’t gunna cut it, hence the mainstreams absolute disdain for maths involving dynamic complex plasma’s |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 05:01 PM | #472 |
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Sol88: Lies about what he replies to - what a surprise
13 November 2017 Sol88: Lies about what he replies to - what a surprise!
jonesdave116 wrote about Sol88's delusion of electrical discharges on comets and the delusion of "Flogging a dead horse". As pointed out many years ago, those electrical discharges would be easily detected from Earth and especially easy for Rosetta. jonesdave116 wrote about the Nordheim electrostatic paper which is about electrostatic levitation of dust and we have the insanity of thinking this is plasma from Sol88. The two papers are about different phenomena with different size of dust particles. |
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12th November 2017, 05:04 PM | #473 |
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"disdain"?! https://www.google.com/search?q=math...w=1280&bih=893 Where exactly (absolute or otherwise) is such "disdain" for the mathematics? By all means please provide us with the electric comet mathematical models "involving dynamic complex plasma’s" related to comets, naturally lacking mathematical "disdain"? |
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BRAINZZZZZZZZ |
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12th November 2017, 05:14 PM | #474 |
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Sol88: Denial of basic arithmetic for 8 years now
13 November 2017 Sol88: An inane remark since he and his cult have been in denial of basic arithmetic for over 8 years now!
The average measured density of comets is 0.6 g/cc. The average measured density of asteroids (rocks) is 3.0 g/cc. Basic arithmetic: 0.6 is not 3.0 ! The measured density of 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko is 0.533 ± 0.006 g/cc! |
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12th November 2017, 05:47 PM | #475 |
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12th November 2017, 05:55 PM | #476 |
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12th November 2017, 06:06 PM | #477 |
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Quote:
the Sun: dust properties from Rosetta/VIRTIS-H observations Mmmmmm.....ALICE now VIRTIS-H Not looking good for the subsurface highly porous "ice" pressurising non existent (CONCERT) chambers thru vents (not observed)! Leaves mechanical cliff collapse and crack propagation as your ONLY plausible means... Meantime...over at the ELECTRIC COMET... |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 06:09 PM | #478 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 06:18 PM | #479 |
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?
you just follow real science???? Like this @Tusenfem, 1. Is the plasma environment around comet 67P dynamic or static? 2. does this plasma environment include complex plasma's? 3. Does the plasma environment include dynmaic flux tubes and electric fields on varying scales? See that's how you do it JD116, as the experts. Just you see what Tusenfem says. |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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12th November 2017, 07:19 PM | #480 |
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Sol88: Lies again about yet another 67P paper
13 November 2017 Sol88: Lies again about yet another 67P paper.
Comet 67P outbursts and quiescent coma at 1.3 AU from the Sun dust properties from Rosetta/VIRTIS-H observations He lies about this being a paper on the porosity of the comet nucleus. This is the properties of dust ejected from the comet during 1 day with 2 outbursts. The outburst dust contained "very small grains (≤ 100 nm)" that could be silicatic grains or icy grains. No water ice was detected. 13 November 2017 Sol88: An "ice" lie when comets are made of ices and dust. 13 November 2017 Sol88: A "non existent (CONCERT) chambers thru vents (not observed)" delusion. Double stupidity in that quote.
For others: The nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
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