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22nd November 2017, 03:57 AM | #641 |
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Electrical activity and dust lifting on Earth, Mars, and beyond
Renno, N. O. & Kok, J. F. https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.ed...Lifting_on.pdf Is irrelevant. How are you lifting dust on a comet, when there is a diamagnetic cavity in place? For the umpteenth time. Any chance of actually answering this? Or are you just gouing to carry on wasting our time with links to papers that are irrelevant to the discussion? ETA: If this is possible at asteroids, which nobody is doubting, due to their lack of a coma, then comets should look like asteroids. And asteroids should have a dusty environment, just like comets. They don't. |
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22nd November 2017, 04:32 AM | #642 |
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Diamagnetic cavity
You're just so sure, jd116. Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system
Quote:
Is this the case, Tusenfem? How are the neutrals being ionised then or more pressing how are they being released via "subsurface energy"? |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 04:33 AM | #643 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 04:49 AM | #644 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 04:56 AM | #645 |
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I've told you how it CAN happen, you tell me why it can't?
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 04:58 AM | #646 |
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No. I'm saying that you are not understanding the paper, nor are you understanding the cometary environment as it is when there is a diamagnetic cavity in place. That is, the solar wind electrons, needed for large voltage gradients in craters, and between the night and day sides, are not reaching the nucleus. Therefore the process as described is irrelevant at a comet when it is highly active.
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22nd November 2017, 04:59 AM | #647 |
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22nd November 2017, 05:16 AM | #648 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 05:26 AM | #649 |
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Quote:
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22nd November 2017, 05:38 AM | #650 |
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Lest we forget here, we are talking about a sudden, explosive emission of so much dust that it is optically thick, from a very small area. I have seen absolutely nothing presented that would explain this behaviour electrostatically. It is nonsense. And the authors of those papers would tell Sol the very same.
We have seen other sudden dust enhancements, and they are accompanied by gas increases. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that all such sudden enhancements are not due to gas release. It is a pointless discussion. |
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22nd November 2017, 05:59 AM | #651 |
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yes, so what, because you just gather a lot a terms and then "we" just have to make sense of your ramblings.
It is the trick of just writing incomprehensive post in order to get one of the "experts" to make sense of it for you and work out any possible details or models. And exactly what does that quote have to do with comet 67P? Next to that, looking at the paper by Renno and Kok, this quote of yours does not exist, heck, the paper only has 6 figures. You found an upload of a preprint of this paper, and not the published one in Space Science Reviews, which does not have the text you quoted anymore. oh yippie I can't wait |
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22nd November 2017, 06:01 AM | #652 |
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22nd November 2017, 06:03 AM | #653 |
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22nd November 2017, 07:42 AM | #654 |
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Here is an interesting article on 'electric asteroids'! Yikes!!!
https://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/new...ric-asteroids/ However, it isn't quite the sort of thing that Thornhill et al would hope for from the headline alone. The paper which describes the model is here: Grid-free 2D plasma simulations of the complex interaction between the solar wind and small, near-Earth asteroids Zimmerman, N. I. et al. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0150011018.pdf To create the necessary electric fields, the model has to incorporate both photoemission and the plasma interaction from the solar wind. Of course, this plasma interaction is not going to happen at a comet with a diamagnetic cavity in place, as the solar wind is getting nowhere near the nucleus. So, all jolly interesting, and shows that electric effects in space are not ignored by the likes of NASA. It should be noted, however, that we have had a few close up looks at asteroids, and there is no discernible dust coma. Take a look at the Hayabusa images from asteroid Itokawa, for instance. So, if dust levitation is happening, then it is only minor. And this mechanism certainly cannot be responsible for explosive outbursts at comets, even when the solar wind is reaching the surface. |
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22nd November 2017, 12:38 PM | #655 |
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Sol88: Irrelevant delusions on charged dust, etc. to derail from his comet delusions
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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22nd November 2017, 12:42 PM | #656 |
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Sol88: States ignorance of diamagnetic cavities and an irrelevant paper
23 November 2017 Sol88: States ignorance of diamagnetic cavities and an irrelevant to his comet delusions paper.
Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system is not his insane comets delusion that include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; etc. etc. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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22nd November 2017, 12:47 PM | #657 |
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Sol88: An idiotic electrostatics paper question to derail from his comet delusions
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22nd November 2017, 01:00 PM | #658 |
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Sol88: A lie that a (or any!) mainstream paper is relevant to his comet delusions
23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that a (or any!) mainstream paper is relevant to his comet delusions.
23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that I have confirmed that this review paper is relevant to his comet delusions or "cutting edge". To show how obvious the lies are
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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22nd November 2017, 05:51 PM | #659 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 06:10 PM | #660 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 06:25 PM | #661 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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22nd November 2017, 07:12 PM | #662 |
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Sol88: Insults jonesdave116 and lies about evidence about his comet delusions
23 November 2017 Sol88: Insults jonesdave116 and lies about presenting evidence about his comet delusions.
22 November 2017 Sol88: A lie in his signature by quote mining an obviously true statement by jonesdave116 |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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22nd November 2017, 07:23 PM | #663 |
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Sol88: An inane question to derail from his comet delusions
23 November 2017 Sol88: An inane question to derail from his comet delusions.
23 November 2017 Sol88: Idiocy of mainstream papers on comets made of ices and dust. 23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that field aligned currents are Birkeland currents and that altering tusenfem's paper makes it so. 28 January 2017 by tusenfem Birkeland currents are a special kind of field aligned currents which flow in the Earth's magnetosphere. 23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that Birkeland currents are in his comet delusions. 23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that a diamagnetic cavity is a double layer (even with as a joke). |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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23rd November 2017, 12:55 AM | #664 |
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Most ionization is taken care of by PHOTO ionization, with sometimes a contribution from secondary ionization by photo-electrons.
If you copy a quote from my paper, then do it correctly, I doubt I wrote "which will result into a J.B force" (which I did not). What did I write and do you understand the difference between what I wrote and you misquoted? And in what universe is what I describe a double layer? |
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23rd November 2017, 03:16 AM | #665 |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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23rd November 2017, 04:00 AM | #666 |
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I mean, really Tusenfem? Unknown???
Quote:
67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko: Observations from the Rosetta Ion and Electron Sensor Mmmmm...unknown????? Now let me think....Tusenfem may be able to help?? @Tusenfem, what process can accelerate charged particles in a cometary environment? You may want to read up on [b]Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet[\b] |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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23rd November 2017, 04:07 AM | #667 |
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Sorry mate, just the way it ctrl+c and ctrl + v'd.
I understand whats going because I had asked at the start of the thread, stick an obsticle into the solar wind and Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet but we argued over it for quite some time! Oh well that's science, ay? |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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23rd November 2017, 04:31 AM | #668 |
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Quote:
At least try to understand it, and stop wasting people's time with silly suggestions. Your electric comet woo is dead. Has been for a long time. No rock, no EDM, no electric discharges. As silly ideas go, this is one of the sillier ones. And was a spectacular failure. As was predicted. |
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23rd November 2017, 04:40 AM | #669 |
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23rd November 2017, 04:56 AM | #670 |
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23rd November 2017, 06:19 AM | #671 |
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Stopped reading after the introduction, did you, and forgot about sections 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4 in which at least 4 methods for electron acceleration are given?
I guess you still don't understand how a scientific paper works. In the introduction you give the status quo, and then you continue with the presentation of your own work. And as there are several methods to accelerate electrons, at the point of Cravens+, Mendis+ and Gombosi+ it was unknown which method accelerates the electrons to supra-thermal energies. I am sure you can come up with (one) process, and interestingly George spent 4 subsections on possible mechanisms, which you obviously did not look at. Sure I can read Jan's paper, and I can even talk about it with him in Dutch. However, you have not understood the scientific process, and when George wrote the paper from which you quote-mined first, it was still 3 years before Jan wrote his paper. |
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23rd November 2017, 06:25 AM | #672 |
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Quote:
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23rd November 2017, 06:25 AM | #673 |
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Scientific progress goes *BOINK* -- Calvin & Hobbes twitter: @tusenfem -- Super Duper Space Plasma Physicist |
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23rd November 2017, 12:58 PM | #674 |
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Sol88: Extension of his insults of jonesdave116 to me.
24 November 2017 Sol88: Extension of his insults of jonesdave116 to me.
The next "bloody drongo" (= bloody idiot) will be reported. I and jonesdave116 (and tusenfem) know what diamagnetic cavities and double layers are. That does not make us bloody idiots. 24 November 2017 Sol88: Repeats his lie that a diamagnetic cavity is a double layer. For others interested in the truth: A diamagnetic cavity is a volume in plasma that has no magnetic field. A double layer is the separation of charges into layers in a plasma caused by currents of a discontinuity in plasma properties. Rosetta finds magnetic field-free bubble at comet
Quote:
Double layers had been observed for decades: Goertz, C. K. (1979), Double layers and electrostatic shocks in space, Rev. Geophys., 17(3), 418–426 is a 1979 review. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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23rd November 2017, 01:27 PM | #675 |
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Sol88: Irrelevant paper title, etc. to derail from his comet delusions
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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23rd November 2017, 01:36 PM | #676 |
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Sol88: Irrelevant paper title about comets made of ices and dust
24 November 2017 Sol88: Irrelevant paper title about comets made of ices and dust
24 November 2017 Sol88: A lie about understanding anything about comets as shown by over 8 years of ignorant delusions that comets are rock, etc. An astrophysicist studying comets tells him a basic fact about comets (ionization of the coma is primarily caused by photoionization) and not to misquote his paper (no double layers in it). |
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23rd November 2017, 05:56 PM | #678 |
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As RC, Tusenfem and myself have said, this is a non-argument. It is the death throes of a very silly idea that has been shown to be wrong. It was predicted to be wrong on Cosmoquest/ BAUT over 10 years ago. It has turned out to be precisely wrong. No surprise there.
Its one remaining believer is now reduced to trying to contort various mainstream predictions, papers, and observations, into some sort of hope for the resurrection of this impossible woo. Not happening. No EDM. No rock. No discharges. No double layers (whatever they are supposed to do). It is dead. Deader than a very dead thing. It is an ex-stupid idea. It is finished. Shuffled off its mortal coil. Gone to meet the choir invisible. It is an ex-silly idea. Finish. Goodnight. |
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24th November 2017, 12:48 AM | #679 |
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yup, double layers...
Quote:
and further, seems the DIAMAGNETIC cavity seems to coincide (@170 km First detection of a diamagnetic cavity at comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko) if not inside the double layer where the distance from the nucleus were charge separation is occurring in this simulation at around 500km from the nucleus? Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet So what's going on here, Tusenfem? |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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24th November 2017, 12:57 AM | #680 |
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Ya bloody drop kick!
Ionization has EVERYTHING to do with the ELECTRIC COMET. Solar wind electrons are not required just electrons with high enough energy.
Quote:
As Tusenfem says, photo-ionization is the main player, even when the coma is optical thick to incoming EUV! and you still need your infrared radiation to burrow under all that dust to get to your "ice" to start the whole ionization shebang going in the first place! Seems you've got it in your hand again! and any more than two shakes and your playing with it! |
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116. “The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator |
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