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Old 14th October 2021, 12:28 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Did all of the killings take place inside or was it outside too? I saw mention of multiple weapons. Did this guy get up close and personal with these killings or was everything from a range?
Now that we know more, he killed people both inside and outside. They will do autopsies to determine what weapons were used, and won't have any comment to the public on weapons before those are done.

We now also know that the police were armed when they first met him, but retreated when they were fired upon by arrows. Half an hour later, they confronted him again, shot warning shots and apprehended him.

Most likely, all deaths happened in that half hour between the first encounter with the police and him being apprehended.

I'm not sure what to think about that.

Last edited by Ryokan; 14th October 2021 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:29 PM   #42
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Walking Dead and Lord of the Rings aside (Legolas: <thwhip!> "Twenty-eight!" <thwip!> "Twenty-nine!", etc.) I always thought visual fiction was exaggerating by far the immediate effect of arrows. Do people die that quickly after being shot with an arrow? Or animals? I've never been bow-hunting so I don't know the effect on a well-placed shot on a deer, either.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
I'm not sure what to think about that.
I bet the cops are having some pretty deep remorse in not being more aggressive at the first encounter too. With the US cops they would have shot the **** out of him in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Walking Dead and Lord of the Rings aside (Legolas: <thwhip!> "Twenty-eight!" <thwip!> "Twenty-nine!", etc.) I always thought visual fiction was exaggerating by far the immediate effect of arrows. Do people die that quickly after being shot with an arrow? Or animals? I've never been bow-hunting so I don't know the effect on a well-placed shot on a deer, either.
Plenty of places to hit a person with an arrow that'll take them down immediately. As The Atheist has said, they don't move slow. Your average compound bow shoots an arrow at 156 miles per hour (252 kilometers per hour). Getting hit with the equivalent of a knife at that speed will kill a lot of things very quickly.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:44 PM   #44
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The victims are four women and one man, all between ages 50 and 70.

The names of the victims have not been made public yet.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:46 PM   #45
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Picture of one of the arrows used here, courtesy of Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:46 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Crossbows do not kill people.

People shooting crossbow bolts at other people kill people.
Which is why they arrested him, not his bow.

Hans
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Picture of one of the arrows used here, courtesy of Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet.
Obviously not a crossbow bolt.
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:51 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Walking Dead and Lord of the Rings aside (Legolas: <thwhip!> "Twenty-eight!" <thwip!> "Twenty-nine!", etc.) I always thought visual fiction was exaggerating by far the immediate effect of arrows. Do people die that quickly after being shot with an arrow? Or animals? I've never been bow-hunting so I don't know the effect on a well-placed shot on a deer, either.
In real life, few (hand-) weapons kill instantly. An arrow is far less deadly than a bullet because the speed is lower. Still, there are many places in a body where an arrow is deadly.

Hans
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Old 14th October 2021, 12:53 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Surely "arch" comes from the shape of a bow (Latin "arcus") rather than the trajectory of the arrow.
Any projectile moves in an arch. However, it seems that in the case at hand, the deadly arrows were fired at rather short range.

Hans
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Old 14th October 2021, 03:02 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
In real life, few (hand-) weapons kill instantly. An arrow is far less deadly than a bullet because the speed is lower. Still, there are many places in a body where an arrow is deadly.

Hans
Nope. Have you ever shot a compound bow? A hunting arrow will easily shoot right through a human leaving horrendous damage.
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Old 14th October 2021, 03:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Any projectile moves in an arch.
Gravity has a negligible effect on my laser gun.
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Old 14th October 2021, 03:58 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
They were in various places over a large area. We already know about the supermarket. There have been reports of him entering peoples' homes and attack those inside. He did have at least two encounters with the police outside, where he shot at them with arrows and then managed to shake them.

The police has said he had multiple weapons, but have not said what kind or if he used them.

We know a lot more than we did this morning, but there's still a lot we don't know.

He seems to me to be someone attracted to extremism, and might not have cared what kind. There was an interview with two young women who had been his neighbour, and they said he was a very scary guy and would growl at them on the street. One of them, a black girl, said he had made racist comments at her.

Another neighbour had seen him practice with weapons like sticks and nunchucks in his backyard.

Usually in cases like these, the neighbours are surprised. He seemed like such a nice and quiet guy! Not this guy. Everyone seems to agree he was a ticking bomb.

He converted to Islam in 2017, which he announced in a video on social media that was so extreme and scary that people who knew him contacted the police, saying they were worried that he could do something violent.

There have been no reports on him being in any Islamic communities or attending local mosques.
From what I have read of this guy he was under an injunction for threatening to kill his father. The injunction was granted as he left a gun on the family sofa. It does seem like he has a personality disorder from his calculated sadistic anti-social behaviour. From what I gather the police had spoken to him about an incident, I understand he had been skulking around his parents house, and then after that he went on a killing spree around the neighbourhood. The conversion to fundamental Islam by someone who likely has never had any connection to that culture and using it as a rationale to murder people sounds like someone with a strong sense of self-hatred and nihilism. It is a shame that he was not apprehended at an earlier stage in his extreme errant behaviour.
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Old 14th October 2021, 04:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Obviously not a crossbow bolt.
Nor was the one I saw a pic of last night, it was stuck in a building's wooden exterior wall.
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Old 14th October 2021, 05:04 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Picture of one of the arrows used
Huh. Appears to be a target arrow, although a little hard to be sure from the dodgy photo. Other pics here also look like target arrows. If that's right, he was obviously new to killing with a bow, because you'd use hunting arrows every time*. That lends more weight to the victims being completely confused, because target arrows are much less deadly than target arrows.

A good hunting arrow from a decent bow would kill the person behind the victim as well.

*Or maybe he was flat broke, because hunting tips cost about 5x more than blunts.
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Old 14th October 2021, 05:33 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Surely "arch" comes from the shape of a bow (Latin "arcus") rather than the trajectory of the arrow.
This is the correct derivation, though I had learned the trajectory explanation as well. It's merely a linguistic coicidence.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I've never shot a human, but I'm guessing human reaction would be much the same as other large mammals - an immediate large jump, which is going to leave the arrow pointing in a direction other than where the shot came from. With the being no sound, I'm sure the shock factor of seeing someone suddenly have an arrow sticking out of them is going to cause some serious confusion for several seconds. Again, with a gun, you know where to run from, with an arrow, you don't and might be running straight towards the archer.
Exactly. Unless you see the arrow hit and can immediately trace its trajectory back to its source, you have no information that will tell you where the archer is. Especially if the archer is trying to be stealthy, though there's no indication of that here.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I always thought visual fiction was exaggerating by far the immediate effect of arrows. Do people die that quickly after being shot with an arrow? Or animals? I've never been bow-hunting so I don't know the effect on a well-placed shot on a deer, either.
Visual fiction absolutely gets archery wrong, just like it does about everything to do with swords. That said, the arrow Ryokan posted a photo of is a target point, designed for puncturing. This will kill pretty quickly if it hits a vital organ such as the heart (not as easy as it might seem because of the presence of ribs), but if it lodges in muscle it is extremely survivable as long as you don't try to remove the arrow before a paramedic gets there. A broadhead arrow (such as the ones The Atheist uses for hunting and those historically used for war) is designed to kill quickly by causing massive bleeding. The target passes out very quickly due to a sudden drop in blood pressure and unless the wound is staunched very quickly they bleed out unconscious on the ground.
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Old 14th October 2021, 08:20 PM   #56
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Arrow, "tthhhhHHHPPPPP!!!!!!"


Guy next to person shot by arrow, "Bro, don't move...wait...wait...okay there he is! You can writhe in pain now"
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Old 14th October 2021, 08:23 PM   #57
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Also I'd like to say, because I have personal experience of this (again on the LARP field), that arrows definitely make quite a distinct noise when they fly past centimetres from your head.

ETA and I just realised I used the word "quickly" three times in two sentences in my previous post. Bad form, Wolli, bad form.
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Old 18th October 2021, 07:38 AM   #58
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Police now says no one was killed with arrows. Everyone who died was killed with a stabbing weapon.

I would guess a knife of some sort.
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Old 18th October 2021, 07:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Police now says no one was killed with arrows. Everyone who died was killed with a stabbing weapon.

I would guess a knife of some sort.
Man, this guy was a pretty sick bastard.
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Old 18th October 2021, 11:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Police now says no one was killed with arrows. Everyone who died was killed with a stabbing weapon.

I would guess a knife of some sort.
They're saying "knife or larger weapon" so he might have had a sword as well.

I retract my surprise that he was killing people with target arrows, because he wasn't.
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Old 18th October 2021, 01:30 PM   #61
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ws-say-police?

Article about the stabbing.
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Old 18th October 2021, 04:01 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I really do question the commitment of these terrorists in some cases.

Brenton Tarrant, Anders Brievik and the 9/11 hijackers, sure, but some of these guys really lack focus.

I see this in the article:

Quote:
According to the police, a “double-digit” number of people were shot at with arrows at the start of the attack. “At some point he discarded or lost his bow and arrows,” said Omholt.
If I shot 10 people with hunting arrows, I'd be confident at least half of them would be dead almost instantly.

I said years ago I could find no difference between your average terrorist and an incel feeb from 4Chan and I don't see a reason to change that opinion. Worthless scum, regardless of ideology.
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Old 18th October 2021, 05:05 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I really do question the commitment of these terrorists in some cases.

Brenton Tarrant, Anders Brievik and the 9/11 hijackers, sure, but some of these guys really lack focus.

I see this in the article:



If I shot 10 people with hunting arrows, I'd be confident at least half of them would be dead almost instantly.

I said years ago I could find no difference between your average terrorist and an incel feeb from 4Chan and I don't see a reason to change that opinion. Worthless scum, regardless of ideology.
Unless the worthless murderous scum win and are then made heroes and leaders of the country (e.g. Ireland).
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Old 19th October 2021, 01:34 AM   #64
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Excellent Twitter thread!
Quote:
1) There are people who want to believe that every crime in Europe is committed by non-white immigrants and/or Muslims, and media willingly fan those flames. Two big, recent stories from the Nordic region illustrated this: a huge explosion in Gothenburg & murder of 5 in Norway.
Christian Christensen on Twitter (Oct 19, 2021)
ETA:
Quote:
How Norway “bow & arrow” story shifted in 4 days:

“Radical Muslim kills w/bow & arrow”
TO
“Radical Muslim convert kills w/bow & arrow”
TO
“Mentally ill man kills w/bow & arrow”
TO
“Mentally ill man kills by stabbing”

Lesson? Media must end “Islamic terror” clickbait addiction.
Christian Christensen on Twitter (Oct 18, 2021)
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Old 19th October 2021, 01:52 AM   #65
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Quote:
The suspect, a Danish Muslim convert, is now in custody in a medical facility pending a psychiatric evaluation.

"The strongest hypothesis after the first days of the investigation is that illness is in the background," said police inspector Per Thomas Omholt.

However, police are investigating a range of motives including "anger, revenge, impulse, jihad, illness and provocation", Mr Omholt said.
I don't think being a radical and being mentally ill are mutually exclusive. I guess we will see what they come up with.
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Old 19th October 2021, 07:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think being a radical and being mentally ill are mutually exclusive. I guess we will see what they come up with.
They're not. What's being highlighted here is the change in the language the media uses to refer to the person. Apparently it's more acceptable to vilify mental illness than it is to vilify converts to Islam.
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