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Old 8th February 2021, 12:40 PM   #401
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Look at the Hansards, hardcore remainers voted against the May Robbins brokered withdrawal agreement as well.
What? Remainers didn't vote to leave the EU! Tell me this isn't so! how could this possibly be!




Originally Posted by Airfix View Post

May, sought COMPROMISE.
Not really. She tried to live up to the promises made by the leave campaign in the referendum but this was never possible. The only two possible deals were the "Brexit in name only" deal where the only real change was the UK lost it's say in EU policymaking or the deal May negotiated and Johnson copied and presented as his own.
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Old 8th February 2021, 12:43 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
What we wanted was independence, and we have that.
Scotland and NI may feel somewhat differently...
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Old 8th February 2021, 12:54 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How about the government negotiated that to begin with?

It's more important to negotiate with Norway and get the deep sea boats back in to their waters.
Most of the Peterhead boats don't fish EU waters for example.

In the UK we eat white fish to the almost complete exclusion of everything else.
UK waters don't produce the white fish like Cod that we want, that's why we need access to the Norwegian waters.
Coastal and inshore boats and those fishing out in to the North Sea and the Channel do not catch much cod.
That's why the EU is such an important market for our fishermen.
Norway already gave up quota for UK boats as part of it's deal with the EU. Why would they give up more just because the UK didn't think far enough ahead to retain that quota under the withdrawal agreement?

It's not Norway's fault the UK left the EU, and they had no say in whether or not it happened so why should they be on the hook for subsidising UK fishing boats?
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Old 8th February 2021, 01:08 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If a private company claims it can offer the same service for a lot less the first question should always be “how”, unless they have some revolutionary and new service/process then they can’t*. Which is why we see time and time again these companies reneging on their contracts, coming back for more money or simply dropping the keys on the desk of the ministry and saying “we’re out of here”.


*At the absolute best all they will have done is found some way to externalise or rather shove some of their expenses onto the public purse that we all end up having to pick up anyway, usually at a much higher cost.
With functions like cleaning services it generally means "We're going to pay our staff the absolute minimum possible and give them the absolute minimum benefits we can possibly get away with". My mother was a hospital domestic back when it was all within he NHS so it's something I have a declared bias on.
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Old 8th February 2021, 01:22 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I am not familiar enough with it to give an informed opinion, which is why I ask. It seems to me now that indeed, the Brexiter negotiators screwed Ireland up the wazoo.
But what is the solution to it?
This is the solution to an even bigger problem. The EU is correctly insisting that there must be a border between itself and the UK at which travel, customs, import\export regulations can be applied. The UK can't put such a border between NI and The Republic of Ireland because that would violate the peace treaty that ended the un civil war that raged there for decades.

The only viable alternative is to place that border farther back in between NI and the rest of the UK and effectively leave NI in the EU. I think the current chaos sorts itself out when supply chains start dealing with NI as an EU nation and stops trying to force trade across the border with the rest of the UK.
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Old 8th February 2021, 01:45 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
State monopolies are not illegal in some sectors.
NHS England has a monopoly on healthcare in England, NHS Scotland has a monopoly in healthcare in Scotland, other providers exist in parallel to the state ones yes.
But they cannot truly compete with the state for public sector contracts.

An imposed marketisation would change the landscape.

This is the site I was using:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ...08E101:EN:HTML
You misinterpreting the law and clearly are fearing the wrong things. Only the extreme right wing regularly defines government services as "monopolies", and since every country in the EU has some form of government funded universal healthcare system all of them would be impacted in the unlikely situation where your interpretation turns out to be valid.


More relevant is that the primary supports and drivers of Brexit have long wanted to dismantle the NHS in favor of a US style system. I find it far more likely that being in the EU was an impediment to their plans to dismantle the NHS.
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Old 8th February 2021, 01:45 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Scotland and NI may feel somewhat differently...
1,018,322 Scots and 349,442 Northern Irish voters helped make up the 17.41 million who voted to leave the EU, without their votes, this wouldn't have happened.

1,661,191 Scots may have voted to stay in the EU, but 2,001,926 Scots voted to stay British.

1,242,380 Scots voted SNP in the 2019 General Election, on the narrower issue of the EU, in the 2019 EU election, the SNP only got 594,553 votes.

So we shall see.
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Old 8th February 2021, 02:19 PM   #408
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George Eustice writes to the EU to complain about being treated as a third country, presumably because he apparently thinks it's still 2020. I assume he meant "citing" rather than "sighting" too...

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...tion-in-the-eu

ETA: And the formating looks like it was written by a five year old with a cat sleeping on their keyboard but that might just be because I'm reading it on a portable device?
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Old 8th February 2021, 02:20 PM   #409
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We are a "third country".
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Old 9th February 2021, 12:27 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
This is the solution to an even bigger problem. The EU is correctly insisting that there must be a border between itself and the UK at which travel, customs, import\export regulations can be applied. The UK can't put such a border between NI and The Republic of Ireland because that would violate the peace treaty that ended the un civil war that raged there for decades.
It appears that the assumption is that The Troubles would resume if a border were put in place. There's been peace for several decades so is that still a good assumption?
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Old 9th February 2021, 12:36 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
It appears that the assumption is that The Troubles would resume if a border were put in place. There's been peace for several decades so is that still a good assumption?
Yes as there hasn't been peace, just less violence.
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Old 9th February 2021, 12:45 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
George Eustice writes to the EU to complain about being treated as a third country, presumably because he apparently thinks it's still 2020. I assume he meant "citing" rather than "sighting" too...

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...tion-in-the-eu

ETA: And the formating looks like it was written by a five year old with a cat sleeping on their keyboard but that might just be because I'm reading it on a portable device?
It also needed proofreading before being sent.

I do have to say I agree with his sentiment, such trade has happened for many years, I mean it's not like anything significant has happened that could effect our trading with the EU.
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Old 9th February 2021, 02:52 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Scotland and NI may feel somewhat differently...
Though that may change in the near-ish future.


Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
1,018,322 Scots and 349,442 Northern Irish voters helped make up the 17.41 million who voted to leave the EU, without their votes, this wouldn't have happened.

1,661,191 Scots may have voted to stay in the EU, but 2,001,926 Scots voted to stay British.

1,242,380 Scots voted SNP in the 2019 General Election, on the narrower issue of the EU, in the 2019 EU election, the SNP only got 594,553 votes.

So we shall see.

The Scots were promised during the Independence referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. Remember that?
Scotland voted, in 2016, to remain in the EU.

I assume if the SNP achieve a majority in the forthcoming Scottish elections you'll be supporting Scotland holding a new Independence referendum, given the material change in circumstances? And if that passes you'll accept the "democratic will" to leave tne UK?
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Old 9th February 2021, 03:14 AM   #414
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The EU will soon be begging Brits on its hands and knees. No custard creams on the shelves!

Quote:
Brexit effect: No custard creams for Brits in Europe

British supermarkets that have stores in Europe are facing supply problems because of post-Brexit rules on exports to the EU. It's affecting fresh produce at 20 Marks and Spencer stores in France, Morrison's in Gibraltar, and a chain of UK supermarkets in Belgium is on the verge of closure with no deliveries since December.

Our Europe correspondent Gavin Lee reports.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-55985956
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Old 9th February 2021, 03:49 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Though that may change in the near-ish future.




The Scots were promised during the Independence referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. Remember that?
Scotland voted, in 2016, to remain in the EU.

I assume if the SNP achieve a majority in the forthcoming Scottish elections you'll be supporting Scotland holding a new Independence referendum, given the material change in circumstances? And if that passes you'll accept the "democratic will" to leave tne UK?
"Once in a Generation"

With 'Generation' meaning however many years is needed to put it off for decades.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:00 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
It appears that the assumption is that The Troubles would resume if a border were put in place. There's been peace for several decades so is that still a good assumption?
Yes, for certain values of "yes".
I know that's not a great answer but the situation is complicated.

Traditional "Unionism" is mostly dead, though the corpse is animated by regular infusions of the usual slogans and lurches around on the High Feast Days; but "modern" unionism is more about money. Basically peace was purchased, at a price (look at the UK subventions).

Most of the unionists accept, if not publicly, that unification with the south is inevitable, and actually not that far off. They have to ignore this uncomfortable fact for political and ideological reasons (e.g. it demonstrates that their little protestant enclave is a failed state) but it still looms large in their unconscious.

The nationalists also see this inevitable change of status and, while some of them want it to happen sooner rather than later, many are happy to keep the prospect 'somewhere' in the future. Most people don't like change, even for the "better".

This situation is exacerbated by the problems of the politicians in Norn Iron, few of them are particularly intelligent, foresightful or able. This has been demonstrated by, well every debacle in recent years. Remember "cash for ash"? This means that they're terrible at handling change and selling it to their followers. The will not be able to handle a "shift in normal" at all competently.

Down south there's actually growing opposition to unification, once the costs are shown to people. Few, other than the fringe of nationalists, are eager to have their lifestyles disrupted by the costs of integrating a economic basket case and failed state. This is, BTW, why the EU were involved in the peace process, just in case unification does happen their assistance in subsidsing the process will be welcome....
Then there's what euphemistically referred to as the "security implications"; while the unionist terrorists were never particularly competent at anything other than random murder (unless assisted by the UK state) they still managed to kill a lot of people. As one minister said to be "It's far better to see the RUC and British troops being killed on the streets of Belfast and Derry than to have ours being killed down here".

And then there's the endemic criminality which is intertwined with the terrorism; the loyalist and nationalist "paramilitaries" (to use the traditional term) are heavily involved in extortion, drugs trafficking, people smuggling, robbery, agri-diesel laundering and general smuggling et cetera. Much of this was facilitated by the previous relationships between Ireland, Norn Iron, the rUK and the EU. There's money involved.

So, what next? Well the loyalists (the term is used for the more fringe elements of unionism, BTW; it's not quite interchangeable with 'unionists' having connotations of more extreme attitudes) are annoyed. This is pretty much their default state of mind but they're very pro-UK (and anti-EU in a reactive way) and are annoyed by the current not-a-border checks. Not to mention the empty shelves and the general attitude of being ignored by the rUK and the EU.
Unfortunately their default reaction to annoyance is threats of violence (which have occurred) followed by actual violence. There are certain suggestions of Russian meddling, including contacts with elements connected to the Russian state security apparatus. However the loyalist gangs are pretty well penetrated by the security forces.

The nationalists are less generally annoyed, reflexively never having much trust in the rUK anyway. The threat of any border controls between Ireland and NI could well stir them, especially if this comes from the UK government. In fact it was made clear back in '18 that customs posts would not be tolerated in F&ST and would be removed by force.

So, to return to my earlier point, what next? With competence and goodwill on both sides and a give-and-take attitude the problems are solvable. However there is precious little competence being shown by NI and UK governments, the latter displaying an unusually staggering level of incompetence, arrogance and ignorance, exacerbated by an unwillingness to listen to those with expertise of the situation. Nor is goodwill particularly evident.

Down here the situation is causing anxiety; personally I would have been in favour of establishing a hard border last year, using Covid as a justification. There is contingency planning, and discussions, but no-one is enthusiastic about making the first move.

I hope this helps somewhat.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:01 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes as there hasn't been peace, just less violence.
Peace is relative and depends on the observer's motion through the rioting.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:25 AM   #418
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George Eustice warns EU that Britain will get tough if Brussels doesn't back down in row over shellfish exports

Quote:
Britain could start boarding European fishing boats to interrupt their catches unless Brussels backs down in a row over shellfish exports, a Cabinet minister indicated yesterday.

Environment Secretary George Eustice warned that the Government could drop its 'pragmatic and sensible' approach unless the EU starts being reasonable in return.

Brussels has told British fishermen they are indefinitely banned from selling live mussels, oysters, clams, cockles and scallops to EU member states.
The shellfish can only be transported to the Continent if they have already been treated in purification plants.

In the Commons yesterday, Mr Eustice faced calls to start conducting disruptive spot checks on foreign vessels operating in British waters.

Sheryll Murray, Tory MP for South East Cornwall, said: 'I know [Mr Eustice] has tried his best but the time has now come to show the EU that we will not surrender to their games.
'I call on [Mr Eustice] to start the necessary frequent boardings on EU vessels fishing in our exclusive economic zone to ensure they comply with UK rules.'

Mr Eustice responded: 'It is the case that in many, many areas, we have taken a pragmatic, sensible, phased approach in the initial months, but there's no obligation on us to continue that.
'And indeed we do… want to see some reciprocation from the EU in terms of application of common sense and reasonableness, and we reserve our position in all of those other areas, and of course it goes without saying that any EU vessels accessing UK waters will need to abide by UK law.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esnt-down.html


Back down from what, applying a regulation the UK helped write in 2010, a regulation which has applied to all 3rd countries since 2011?

Is a trade war and a potential actual shooting war what we really need right now?

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 9th February 2021 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:26 AM   #419
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Sharpen the cutlasses and polish the grappling hooks.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:54 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
George Eustice warns EU that Britain will get tough if Brussels doesn't back down in row over shellfish exports



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esnt-down.html


Back down from what, applying a regulation the UK helped write in 2010, a regulation which has applied to all 3rd countries since 2011?

Is a trade war and a potential actual shooting war what we really need right now?
More British exceptionalism, the law was only supposed to apply to "foreigners" not to Britons.
Given Britain's sorely limited examination capacity the threat is a rather pathetic bluff.
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Old 9th February 2021, 04:57 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
George Eustice warns EU that Britain will get tough if Brussels doesn't back down in row over shellfish exports



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esnt-down.html


Back down from what, applying a regulation the UK helped write in 2010, a regulation which has applied to all 3rd countries since 2011?

Is a trade war and a potential actual shooting war what we really need right now?
Who would have thought we'd be treated like a 3rd country if we left the EU?

Bloody uppity foreigners.
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Old 9th February 2021, 06:00 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Y<snip>

Down south there's actually growing opposition to unification, once the costs are shown to people. Few, other than the fringe of nationalists, are eager to have their lifestyles disrupted by the costs of integrating a economic basket case and failed state. This is, BTW, why the EU were involved in the peace process, just in case unification does happen their assistance in subsidsing the process will be welcome....
Then there's what euphemistically referred to as the "security implications"; while the unionist terrorists were never particularly competent at anything other than random murder (unless assisted by the UK state) they still managed to kill a lot of people. As one minister said to be "It's far better to see the RUC and British troops being killed on the streets of Belfast and Derry than to have ours being killed down here".

And then there's the endemic criminality which is intertwined with the terrorism; the loyalist and nationalist "paramilitaries" (to use the traditional term) are heavily involved in extortion, drugs trafficking, people smuggling, robbery, agri-diesel laundering and general smuggling et cetera. Much of this was facilitated by the previous relationships between Ireland, Norn Iron, the rUK and the EU. There's money involved.

So, what next? Well the loyalists (the term is used for the more fringe elements of unionism, BTW; it's not quite interchangeable with 'unionists' having connotations of more extreme attitudes) are annoyed. This is pretty much their default state of mind but they're very pro-UK (and anti-EU in a reactive way) and are annoyed by the current not-a-border checks. Not to mention the empty shelves and the general attitude of being ignored by the rUK and the EU.
Unfortunately their default reaction to annoyance is threats of violence (which have occurred) followed by actual violence. There are certain suggestions of Russian meddling, including contacts with elements connected to the Russian state security apparatus. However the loyalist gangs are pretty well penetrated by the security forces.

The nationalists are less generally annoyed, reflexively never having much trust in the rUK anyway. The threat of any border controls between Ireland and NI could well stir them, especially if this comes from the UK government. In fact it was made clear back in '18 that customs posts would not be tolerated in F&ST and would be removed by force.

So, to return to my earlier point, what next? With competence and goodwill on both sides and a give-and-take attitude the problems are solvable. However there is precious little competence being shown by NI and UK governments, the latter displaying an unusually staggering level of incompetence, arrogance and ignorance, exacerbated by an unwillingness to listen to those with expertise of the situation. Nor is goodwill particularly evident.

Down here the situation is causing anxiety; personally I would have been in favour of establishing a hard border last year, using Covid as a justification. There is contingency planning, and discussions, but no-one is enthusiastic about making the first move.

I hope this helps somewhat.

You make a salient point here. Whilst people assume that the South wants the North 'back', in reality, it has been so long, the negatives outweigh the positives. People often ask Finns if they want Karelia back. In our hearts we yearn for it, but in reality NO WAY! There is now a large Russian population in some parts. What to do with those (= the fanatical Unionists/Brits in Norn)? Do we want to upset their lifestyle and/or expect them to move away? As for Vyberg (Viipuri) once a key city in the Swedish and Finnish empire, the Russians have now turned it into a ******** and it can never be the same again. So yes, we dream of Karelia, but do we want it back? The sad answer is, no. Let the bears, elks, and lynxes now roam freely across this flattened but beautiful wilderness, and just let it be.

However, in the case of Ireland, geographically, it does look to be one land mass, and inevitably, one day the geographical boundaries do become the political ones. Once the current generations have passed away and the 'Troubles' are a long forgotten - or never forgotten - historical fact, that is what will happen, EU or no EU.
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Old 9th February 2021, 06:15 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"Once in a Generation"

With 'Generation' meaning however many years is needed to put it off for decades.
I would class a generation as 20 years.
Which would set the next Scottish referendum for 2034. 13 years time.
It's not a long time to wait.

It was kind of surprising last time though, how unprepared the SNP were, and just assumed that they'd keep membership of the EU if they left the UK, keep the pound, if they left the UK, keep the DVLA etc.

And the answer in just about every case, was no.

OK, there was no way for Scotland to stay a member of the EU because the UK was leaving, and were it to leave the UK it would leave the UK's customs border, so it would have to set up it's own border and customs policies with their own tariff policy too, which, if they want that, is fine.

So long as they understand what it entails.

It's essentially got the same pros and cons as Brexit.
If they see it in those terms, and choose to go for that, fair play.

Government becomes less democratic the more people it has to serve.
They're essentially being motivated by the same kind of concerns I have been.
I understand the concerns of the separatists.

Smaller government, bigger democracy is a better idea than bigger government smaller democracy.
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Old 9th February 2021, 06:25 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
I would class a generation as 20 years.
Which would set the next Scottish referendum for 2034. 13 years time.
It's not a long time to wait.

It was kind of surprising last time though, how unprepared the SNP were, and just assumed that they'd keep membership of the EU if they left the UK, keep the pound, if they left the UK, keep the DVLA etc.

….snip…
You mean they were the proto-Brexiters?
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Old 9th February 2021, 06:28 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You mean they were the proto-Brexiters?
Not really, they had some idea as to the post-independence Scotland they wanted.......
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Old 9th February 2021, 07:44 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You make a salient point here. Whilst people assume that the South wants the North 'back', in reality, it has been so long, the negatives outweigh the positives. People often ask Finns if they want Karelia back. In our hearts we yearn for it, but in reality NO WAY! There is now a large Russian population in some parts. What to do with those (= the fanatical Unionists/Brits in Norn)? Do we want to upset their lifestyle and/or expect them to move away? As for Vyberg (Viipuri) once a key city in the Swedish and Finnish empire, the Russians have now turned it into a ******** and it can never be the same again. So yes, we dream of Karelia, but do we want it back? The sad answer is, no. Let the bears, elks, and lynxes now roam freely across this flattened but beautiful wilderness, and just let it be.

However, in the case of Ireland, geographically, it does look to be one land mass, and inevitably, one day the geographical boundaries do become the political ones. Once the current generations have passed away and the 'Troubles' are a long forgotten - or never forgotten - historical fact, that is what will happen, EU or no EU.
(Re-)unification is inevitable. The problem is how it will be handled. Given the Brexit induced reemergence of loyalist militantism and the incompetence of the NU and rUK governments there will probably be trouble.
That said given that Norn Iron is heading down the path to Brexit induced economic disaster there may be more tolerance for leaving the UK on econo0mic grounds.
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Old 9th February 2021, 07:51 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
I would class a generation as 20 years.
Which would set the next Scottish referendum for 2034. 13 years time.
Why? If the people of Scotland demonstrate, by voting the SNP a majority in the forthcoming election isn't that a mandate for a referendum. Democracy in action.....

Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
It was kind of surprising last time though, how unprepared the SNP were,
Compared to BoJo and the Brexiteers?


Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
and just assumed that they'd keep membership of the EU if they left the UK, keep the pound, if they left the UK, keep the DVLA etc.

And the answer in just about every case, was no.
Answers change. The DVLA is currently a disaster, the Scots could buy the services elsewhere. The EU will welcome them. And why would anyone with any economic nous want to keep the UK pound now?

Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
OK, there was no way for Scotland to stay a member of the EU because the UK was leaving,
That'd despite the same people telling the Scots that the only way in which they could stay in the EU was not keep the union.


Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Government becomes less democratic the more people it has to serve.
That depends on the model of government.
It equally applies to the UK, perhaps it's time to revive Mrercia? Split the country into smaller and "more democratic" units?


Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Smaller government, bigger democracy is a better idea than bigger government smaller democracy.
What do you mean by "Smaller government"?
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Old 9th February 2021, 07:53 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
1,018,322 Scots and 349,442 Northern Irish voters helped make up the 17.41 million who voted to leave the EU
Why are you assuming that people who wanted out of the EU want to stay in the UK? If it's truly about "sovereignty" then presumably they are not any happier to have their decisions made for them in London instead of Brussels.

It also seems like "democracy" isn't your real issue either, otherwise you wouldn't be insisting the desires of 20% of the population is all that matter.

Clearly neither sovereignty nor democracy are the real reason you support Brexit because it's very easy to show that with even a slight change in perspective you reject both.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:11 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
George Eustice warns EU that Britain will get tough if Brussels doesn't back down in row over shellfish exports



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esnt-down.html


Back down from what, applying a regulation the UK helped write in 2010, a regulation which has applied to all 3rd countries since 2011?

Is a trade war and a potential actual shooting war what we really need right now?
Taking a page out the North Korea playbook and heightening military tension as a way to seek economic help.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:15 AM   #430
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I have no love for JD Sports, but this isn't particularly good news.

Quote:
Peter Cowgill, chairman of JD Sports, said the red tape and delays in shipping goods to mainland Europe meant "double-digit millions" in extra costs.

He told the BBC the company might open a distribution centre overseas to help mitigate the problems, and that would mean job losses in the UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55997641
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:20 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
I would class a generation as 20 years.
Which would set the next Scottish referendum for 2034. 13 years time.
It's not a long time to wait.
A referendum isn't required. Just hold an election and make it clear that if it wins the SNP will immediately begin the process of secession from the UK. A referendum would still e justifiable due to the major material change that has occurred since the last one. It's a basic democratic principle that people are allowed to change their minds and when circumstances change people should get a have an opportunity for this to be know. Opposing a new referendum at this point would be overt suppression of democracy IMO.
Originally Posted by Airfix View Post

It was kind of surprising last time though, how unprepared the SNP were, and just assumed that they'd keep membership of the EU if they left the UK, keep the pound, if they left the UK, keep the DVLA etc.
FWIW, in my opinion they are probabaly correct and joining the EU will be relatively straightforward. The right wing assertions to the contrary are almost certainly FUD created to sway the referendum and win over the gullible in their own power base.
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Last edited by lomiller; 9th February 2021 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:33 AM   #432
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If Scotland made a unilateral declaration of independence that was supported by a clear majority how could Boris stop it?
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Old 9th February 2021, 09:04 AM   #433
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Seems fishing has been solved. We just rename the stuff we don't eat. Taunton Tuna anyone?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55996938
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Old 9th February 2021, 09:05 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If Scotland made a unilateral declaration of independence that was supported by a clear majority how could Boris stop it?
He couldn't, if there was external support. And the UK has basically no friends.
But that wouldn't stop him doing something monumentally stupid. Again.
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Old 9th February 2021, 10:07 AM   #435
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Brexit worse than feared, says JD Sports boss

The boss of one of Britain's big retailers says Brexit has turned out to be "considerably worse" than he feared.

Peter Cowgill, chairman of JD Sports, said the red tape and delays in shipping goods to mainland Europe meant "double-digit millions" in extra costs.

He told the BBC JD Sports may open an EU-based distribution centre to ease the problems, which would mean creating jobs overseas and not in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55997641
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Old 9th February 2021, 11:38 AM   #436
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The UK's chief Brexit negotiator has criticised the EU for its actions since the trade deal agreed by the two sides came into force six weeks ago.

Lord David Frost said the relationship had been "more than bumpy" and more "problematic" than he had hoped.

He told a committee the EU's threat to increase controls on vaccine exports to Northern Ireland, as well as "niggling border issues", were two examples.

Lord Frost called for "a different spirit" from Brussels going forward.

Asked about his thoughts on the situation, Cabinet Officer Minister Michael Gove compared it to a bumpy start to a flight, saying: "We all know that when an aeroplane takes off, that is the point where you sometime get an increased level of turbulence.

"But eventually, you then reach a cruising altitude and the crew tell you to take your seatbelt off and enjoy a gin and tonic and some peanuts."

He added: "We are not at the gin and tonic and peanut stage yet, but I am confident we will be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56002176
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Old 9th February 2021, 11:39 AM   #437
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Whatever regs the EU might now legally change that the UK considers "unfair" is tough luck.
As long as the new ruling treats all 3rd countries equally, then UK can protest all it wants.
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Old 9th February 2021, 01:54 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Seems fishing has been solved. We just rename the stuff we don't eat. Taunton Tuna anyone?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55996938
I had to laugh at this line from the article...

Quote:
Paul Trebilcock from the CFPO said: "There is something about the names that has negative connotations."
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Old 9th February 2021, 02:35 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
T

Asked about his thoughts on the situation, Cabinet Officer Minister Michael Gove compared it to a bumpy start to a flight, saying: "We all know that when an aeroplane takes off, that is the point where you sometime get an increased level of turbulence.

"But eventually, you then reach a cruising altitude and the crew tell you to take your seatbelt off and enjoy a gin and tonic and some peanuts."

He added: "We are not at the gin and tonic and peanut stage yet, but I am confident we will be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56002176
Grrrrrrr....



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Old 9th February 2021, 11:59 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Government becomes less democratic the more people it has to serve.
You've stated that before as if it's a fact. It's not. Can you show evidence for your assertion?
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