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Tags 2020 elections , Biden administration , Biden controversies , joe biden , Kamala Harris

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Old 30th September 2021, 08:07 AM   #2321
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Quote:
Call it Beltway brain lock at its worst. Again and again, we keep hearing the same storyline: In the battle over President Biden’s agenda, progressives are demanding all or nothing.

According to this tale, House Democrats threatening to vote down the $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill are holding it “hostage” as leverage to get everything they want from the much bigger social policy bill. Why won’t progressives take 70 percent?

This story line is nonsense. And it has apparently fallen to none other than Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), a determined holdout against the multitrillion-dollar social policy bill, to expose it as the sham it truly is.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-biden-agenda/

Sinema refuses to say what it is exactly she even wants, other than that she refuses to vote for the agreed deal that is the centerpiece of Biden's domestic policy agenda.

Quote:
First off, this confirms that progressives are right to worry that if Democrats pass the infrastructure bill first, there’s no telling whether Sinema (or Manchin and other centrists) will be there to support something substantial in reconciliation. Sinema not only won’t say what she wants; she apparently doesn’t want to have to specify it at all until the smaller bill passes.

Second, note that when progressives ask Sinema to say what she wants, they are in effect asking what she wants in concessions from them. Yet Sinema won’t specify this. It’s almost an insistence that the infrastructure bill must pass entirely on her terms. That seems almost designed to prevent any kind of accommodation, a level of bad faith that’s genuinely hard to fathom.
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Old 30th September 2021, 09:43 AM   #2322
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Another poison pill is the progressive wing had the Iron Dome funding split to a different bill so they could vote against it even though it would pass anyways, but now Senate Republicans demand it be in the omnibus bill only.

So they could just approve the bill for the Iron Dome, but instead insist the progs must eat a vote instead.

So Israeli security is so important to them, they're willing to risk the lives and safety of others just to stick a thumb in the eye of their political rivals here in the U.S.
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Old 30th September 2021, 07:56 PM   #2323
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It's been revealed that Manchin's getting twice as much from the coal industry as from his Senate salary. So now we know what his resistance is about without him needing to say it. (He even threatened a reporter for mentioning it.)

Democrats need to drop the climate-change component of the bill now. The rest is still worth passing without that.
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Old 1st October 2021, 05:04 AM   #2324
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According to Foxnews et al a Biden official is an eco-terrorist
https://www.cpr.org/2021/07/21/tree-...nd-management/

she has now been named and the office will not be in Colorado. Boebert is mad.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 10:38 AM   #2325
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Another poison pill is the progressive wing had the Iron Dome funding split to a different bill so they could vote against it even though it would pass anyways, but now Senate Republicans demand it be in the omnibus bill only.

So they could just approve the bill for the Iron Dome, but instead insist the progs must eat a vote instead.

So Israeli security is so important to them, they're willing to risk the lives and safety of others just to stick a thumb in the eye of their political rivals here in the U.S.
Iron Dome is purely defensive. Even people who really dislike Israel's overall security policy think they should have the missile defense system. What is the progressive, political upside to this? The first time someone in Israel dies from a Hamas or Hizballah rocket, the attack ad is pretty much going to write itself. There's got to be something else in the Israel aid package to fall on their sword over.

And does AOC really think she's going to take on Chuck Schumer in a primary run if she goes on record against an Israeli missile defense system?
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Old 2nd October 2021, 11:07 AM   #2326
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Iron Dome is purely defensive. Even people who really dislike Israel's overall security policy think they should have the missile defense system. What is the progressive, political upside to this? The first time someone in Israel dies from a Hamas or Hizballah rocket, the attack ad is pretty much going to write itself. There's got to be something else in the Israel aid package to fall on their sword over.



And does AOC really think she's going to take on Chuck Schumer in a primary run if she goes on record against an Israeli missile defense system?
It can pass without them, so why make it an issue, anyways.

Not sure what you mean by a primary. She's House, he's Senate. Also, she already took out a party boss in a primary once, so maybe it's not that far fetched.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 11:11 AM   #2327
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And the latest example of Dems shooting themselves in the foot is playing out now, the Congressional Progressive Caucus (the largest caucus in the Democratic House) is nearly in revolt after leadership has walked back their promises on keeping the Infrastructure bill and the social spending reconciliation package aligned. Even bald-faced lying about ever considering them linked to begin with.

A handful of corporate shills going against the democratic agenda on one side, the biggest caucus in the party on the other. But someone will probably be along shortly to proclaim the progressives are the outliers who need to toe the line.

ETA: the progs already compromised all the way from 6t to 3.5t, now the shills want it down to 1.5t.

Sounds like the same definition of "compromise" we hear from conservatives

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Old 2nd October 2021, 12:10 PM   #2328
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
And the latest example of Dems shooting themselves in the foot is playing out now, the Congressional Progressive Caucus (the largest caucus in the Democratic House) is nearly in revolt after leadership has walked back their promises on keeping the Infrastructure bill and the social spending reconciliation package aligned. Even bald-faced lying about ever considering them linked to begin with.

A handful of corporate shills going against the democratic agenda on one side, the biggest caucus in the party on the other. But someone will probably be along shortly to proclaim the progressives are the outliers who need to toe the line.

ETA: the progs already compromised all the way from 6t to 3.5t, now the shills want it down to 1.5t.

Sounds like the same definition of "compromise" we hear from conservatives
I was under the impression that they were already being attacked for how unhappy they were at the agreements made with them being broken by the other side. It's a liberal revolt according to the NYT, for example.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 01:12 PM   #2329
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Biden is the dumbest man on the planet and proves it daily. Propping up this idiot should finally bring an end to the Democrat Party.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 01:51 PM   #2330
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden is the dumbest man on the planet and proves it daily. Propping up this idiot should finally bring an end to the Democrat Party.
Good then that there's no such thing, isn't it?
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Old 2nd October 2021, 02:00 PM   #2331
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Iron Dome is purely defensive.
Nothing is ever purely defensive. The less you need to worry about being harmed by the other side, the more impunity to you have to do whatever you feel like doing to them, so building up defensive ability is building up offensive ability. And every dollar saved by not needing to spend it on a "defensive" gift is a dollar you still have available to spend on something else more "offensive".
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Old 2nd October 2021, 02:35 PM   #2332
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden is the dumbest man on the planet and proves it daily. Propping up this idiot should finally bring an end to the Democrat Party.

That can't be true, Trump is still alive, and so are many who worship him. Then you got Desantis, MTG, the line is pretty long.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 02:42 PM   #2333
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden is the dumbest man on the planet and proves it daily. Propping up this idiot should finally bring an end to the Democrat Party.
And yet he managed to whoop Trump's arse by over 7 million votes getting the most popular votes ever by any candidate. Which is why Donnie needs to resort to the "rigged election" Big Lie.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 02:53 PM   #2334
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Nothing is ever purely defensive. The less you need to worry about being harmed by the other side, the more impunity to you have to do whatever you feel like doing to them, so building up defensive ability is building up offensive ability. And every dollar saved by not needing to spend it on a "defensive" gift is a dollar you still have available to spend on something else more "offensive".
Plus, of course, the money may pass through the hands of the Israeli government, but the ultimate destination is Raytheon and other defense contractors.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 03:03 PM   #2335
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I was under the impression that they were already being attacked for how unhappy they were at the agreements made with them being broken by the other side. It's a liberal revolt according to the NYT, for example.
Well, Sinema has gone back to her home state so her leadership PAC can stuff more money in her pockets this weekend anyways, so I don't expect much to change.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 03:33 PM   #2336
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And yet he managed to whoop Trump's arse by over 7 million votes getting the most popular votes ever by any candidate. Which is why Donnie needs to resort to the "rigged election" Big Lie.
That reflects more on the Democrat voters than it does on Trump. They chose this idiot and owe the entire nation an apology.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 03:36 PM   #2337
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That reflects more on the Democrat voters than it does on Trump. They chose this idiot and owe the entire nation an apology.
Are you going to contribute to the discussion or should we expect more vacuous **** posting?
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Old 2nd October 2021, 03:56 PM   #2338
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Are you going to contribute to the discussion or should we expect more vacuous **** posting?
Well, you can always explain to me and everyone else why Biden giving Afghanistan to the Taliban was a work of genius.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 04:01 PM   #2339
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Well, you can always explain to me and everyone else why Biden giving Afghanistan to the Taliban was a work of genius.
Trump did that.

But maybe you could answer a question. Why did we spend two decades, 2500 lives and two trillion dollars there?
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Old 2nd October 2021, 04:22 PM   #2340
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That reflects more on the Democrat voters than it does on Trump. They chose this idiot and owe the entire nation an apology.
What? No "the election was RIGGED!", "Stop the Steal", or "Illegals/Dead People Voted"? Obviously, you're no REAL patriot! RINO!
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Old 2nd October 2021, 04:25 PM   #2341
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Trump did that.

But maybe you could answer a question. Why did we spend two decades, 2500 lives and two trillion dollars there?
Amazing how quickly they forget it was Trump who brokered that little deal, ain't it?

Amazing, but not surprising.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 04:51 PM   #2342
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Amazing how quickly they forget it was Trump who brokered that little deal, ain't it?

Amazing, but not surprising.
There is no intellectual honesty on the right anymore. They're all copying Trump. The sky isn't blue, grass isn't green, water isn't wet, rocks aren't hard.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 05:08 PM   #2343
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
It can pass without them, so why make it an issue, anyways.

Not sure what you mean by a primary. She's House, he's Senate. Also, she already took out a party boss in a primary once, so maybe it's not that far fetched.
AOC is rumored (and she's done nothing to quell the rumors) to be thinking about a primary challenge against Schumer.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 06:00 PM   #2344
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
AOC is rumored (and she's done nothing to quell the rumors) to be thinking about a primary challenge against Schumer.
She better think twice on that one and not get too full of herself.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 06:20 PM   #2345
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"Has not considered it, but doesn't rule it out" is the right play.

She doesn't alienate either those who want her to or don't want her to. It pushes Schumer into staying on friendly terms with her (he wants votes from her district, too), giving her a key Senate ally in high leadership.

Never tell a potential rival your plans, because then they know which playbook to use.

ETA: I once had idealistic notions of politics, then I worked for a challenger and accept that was seriously naive.

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Old 2nd October 2021, 06:25 PM   #2346
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
"Has not considered it, but doesn't rule it out" is the right play.

She doesn't alienate either those who want her to or don't want her to. It pushes Schumer into staying on friendly terms with her (he wants votes from her district, too), giving her a key Senate ally in high leadership.

Never tell a potential rival your plans, because then they know which playbook to use.

ETA: I once had idealistic notions of politics, then I worked for a challenger and accept that was seriously naive.
There is nothing like politics to dissuade someone from being an optimist.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 07:09 PM   #2347
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
There is no intellectual honesty on the right anymore. They're all copying Trump. The sky isn't blue, grass isn't green, water isn't wet, rocks aren't hard.
Give it a year and they’ll start singing praises about how Trump “Got us out of Afghanistan” with little attention to how he made arrangements with the Taliban.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 07:14 PM   #2348
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That reflects more on the Democrat voters than it does on Trump. They chose this idiot and owe the entire nation an apology.
Courtesy of Heather Cox Richardson on FB, I will give you the events of *one* day during the Trump Presidency that took place a year ago yesterday:

Quote:
•A study of more than 38 million English-language articles about the pandemic between January 1 and May 26 showed that Trump was “likely the largest driver of…Covid-19 misinformation.”

•Trump’s former national security adviser, retired Lt. General H.R. McMaster, told MSNBC that Trump was “aiding and abetting Putin’s efforts” to disrupt the November election.

•We learned that Amy Coney Barrett, Trump’s nominee for the Supreme Court, had not disclosed that in 2006, she signed an anti-abortion ad in the South Bend Tribune. It appeared near another ad from the same organization that called for putting “an end to the barbaric legacy of Roe v. Wade and restore laws that protect the lives of unborn children.”

•A tape leaked of Melania Trump complaining about having to decorate the White House for Christmas—“I’m working… my a** off on the Christmas stuff, that you know, who gives a ******* about the Christmas stuff and decorations?”—and then said of criticism that she was not involved with the children separated from their parents at the southern border: “Give me a ********** break.”

•News broke that Donald Trump, Jr.’s girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, had left the Fox News Channel after an employee complained of sexual harassment, saying she required the employee to work at her apartment, where she would sometimes be naked, and where she would share inappropriate photos of men and discuss her sexual activities with them. She denied any misconduct, but FNC settled the case against her for $4 million.

•The House of Representatives, controlled by Democrats, passed a $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief measure. No Republicans voted for it.

•Right-wing conspiracy theorists Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were charged with four felonies in Michigan for intimidating voters, conspiring to violate election laws, and using a computer to commit a crime.

•Claiming he wanted to prevent “voter fraud,” Republican governor Greg Abbott of Texas limited the number of locations for dropping off mail-in ballots to one site per county. While Republican counties tended to have just one location already, Democratic Harris County, the third largest county in the country, with a population of more than 4.7 million and an area larger than the state of Rhode Island, had previously used 12. Democratic Travis County, which includes Austin, previously had four.

That was one single day in the Trump presidency.
Who should be apologizing now?
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Old 2nd October 2021, 08:02 PM   #2349
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Well, you can always explain to me and everyone else why Biden giving Afghanistan to the Taliban was a work of genius.
Why would I need to explain something I never claimed? You're the one making bald assertions that fly in the face of known facts.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 08:33 PM   #2350
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Well, you can always explain to me and everyone else why Biden giving Afghanistan to the Taliban was a work of genius.
I didn't realize that Afghanistan was American property so it could be given away by Americans. Sounds like the Who lost China crap of the late 1940s.

Of course you forgot the deal that Trump made with the Taliban before Biden was in office. I could also mention the vast amount of money and several thousand American lives lost in Afghanistan all to produce a government that collapsed with stunning speed once the Americans were gone. C. 2 decades of work and the result was a government that caved in very suddenly and quite unexpectedly. An obvious utter failure at nation building.

May I ask just how much longer the US should have supported a government so incompetent that it folds so completely and swiftly. And of course US "Allies" Saudi-Arabia and the Pakistani ISI were and still are major supporters of the Taliban. And of course Trump helped to lay firmly the basis for sudden Taliban victory before Biden even left office.

As for who "gave" Afghanistan to the Taliban? Well there is the Taliban, the ISI of Pakistan, Saudi-Arabia, the idiot Afghan government and Trump. I would rate Biden has well down the list.

The USSR lost in Afghanistan and now it is the US. Rather interestingly after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan there was plenty of talk in the Soviet Union of Gorby "giving" Afghanistan to Muslim fanatics.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 08:39 PM   #2351
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Well, you can always explain to me and everyone else why Biden giving Afghanistan to the Taliban was a work of genius.
"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."
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Old 2nd October 2021, 09:26 PM   #2352
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
She better think twice on that one and not get too full of herself.
I'm reminded of a somewhat similar event back in the 80's in Connecticut. Our district, though generally Republican, had a Democrat, Toby Moffett, as representative, and he was a well liked young incumbent, with good re-election chances, pretty much guaranteed to make his way up. But in 1982, he decided to run against the moderate Republican Lowell Weicker for the Senate. Weicker was a good guy with pretty good bipartisan support. He tromped Moffett, whose political career basically ended. The district got a Republican representative who was re-elected 9 times, before the district was merged with another.

Of course the AOC thing is within the party, but I think it would be a big mistake. As a vocal spokesperson, she punches above her weight where she is now. But the podium she's standing on now is very small, and hard to get back up on.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 09:30 PM   #2353
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
"Has not considered it, but doesn't rule it out" is the right play.

She doesn't alienate either those who want her to or don't want her to. It pushes Schumer into staying on friendly terms with her (he wants votes from her district, too), giving her a key Senate ally in high leadership.

Never tell a potential rival your plans, because then they know which playbook to use.

ETA: I once had idealistic notions of politics, then I worked for a challenger and accept that was seriously naive.
I don't think it matters at this point since she just made an impassioned plea against Israeli missile defense. That one won't be forgotten in a state-wide New York primary.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 09:34 PM   #2354
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That reflects more on the Democrat voters than it does on Trump. They chose this idiot and owe the entire nation an apology.
Why would we apologize for getting rid of a traitor? Trump was a filthy Russian whore and his supporters betrayed their nation.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 10:57 PM   #2355
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Another hit and run, I see.
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Old 2nd October 2021, 11:53 PM   #2356
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Another hit and run, I see.
The usual, in short?
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Old 3rd October 2021, 06:04 AM   #2357
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Give it a year and they’ll start singing praises about how Trump “Got us out of Afghanistan” with little attention to how he made arrangements with the Taliban.
This is a screenshot, but one of these billboards is on display here in Lenoir City, TN.



Of course, I want to shout out “Who signed the deal making it so, and releasing 5,000 Taliban fighters?”, but what good would it do?
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Old 3rd October 2021, 07:17 AM   #2358
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Plus, of course, the money may pass through the hands of the Israeli government, but the ultimate destination is Raytheon and other defense contractors.
As I understand it, Iron Dome systems aren't built by any US companies.

Quote:
Rafael Advanced Defense Systems
Iron Dome
Manufacturer Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and Israel Aerospace Industries
Unit cost $50 million per battery $100,000–150,000 per interception
Produced since 2011
No. built 10 batteries deployed (planned deployment is 15)
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Last edited by ZiprHead; 3rd October 2021 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 3rd October 2021, 09:25 AM   #2359
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
As I understand it, Iron Dome systems aren't built by any US companies.
Fair point. The batteries are Rafael, the missiles are Raytheon.
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Old 3rd October 2021, 10:37 PM   #2360
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden is the dumbest man on the planet and proves it daily. Propping up this idiot should finally bring an end to the Democrat Party.
Biden isn't dumb. He's dishonest and uncaring. This is ironic because his mantra of "orange man bad" isn't playing out well when he left Americans behind in Afghanistan and now refuses to even answer questions from the press about it.

Trump may have been unpopular because of seemingly "mean" tweets, but he did leave Americans behind enemy lines, nor did poor decisions going against American Generals cause American soldiers to be killed.
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