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Tags 2020 elections , Biden administration , Biden controversies , joe biden , Kamala Harris

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Old 5th October 2021, 01:01 PM   #2441
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Hitchhiker’s Guide?
That was my assumption, but for the fun of it, I looked it up.

Quote:
The Triganic Pu is a unit of galactic currency, with an exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu. This is simple enough, but, since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change.
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Old 5th October 2021, 01:03 PM   #2442
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"United States of America? No you must be mistaken, this is the United States of America LLC, a completely and totally different and unique legal entity."

"We've decided to re-organize as a 501(C) Charity..."

"We've petitioned the league for permission to move the country to Australia. Yes we know this will mess up the playoffs, but we're looking at restructuring the divisions."

"Other countries you can cash in your debt with America or..... *fanfare, confetti and balloons fall from the ceiling* trade it in for what's behind DOOR NUMBER 3!"
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Old 5th October 2021, 01:03 PM   #2443
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
That was my assumption, but for the fun of it, I looked it up.
It just had that Douglas Adams feel to it!
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Old 6th October 2021, 08:19 PM   #2444
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You know what, at this point, **** it. Fund the important programs so they'll run out between March and July of 2024. Make the holdouts vote to keep the programs or take them away. Take a lesson from crack dealers and predatory lenders and give a low introductory rate. Make them vote to keep popular programs or take something away.

Social Security didn't become the third rail of American politics because R's thought it wasn't socialist. It became the the third rail because no one wanted to take away a popular program from Americans. Fund the programs for a few years and the hold outs will co-sponsor the bills to keep them going.
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Old 6th October 2021, 08:36 PM   #2445
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You know what, at this point, **** it. Fund the important programs so they'll run out between March and July of 2024. Make the holdouts vote to keep the programs or take them away. Take a lesson from crack dealers and predatory lenders and give a low introductory rate. Make them vote to keep popular programs or take something away.

Social Security didn't become the third rail of American politics because R's thought it wasn't socialist. It became the the third rail because no one wanted to take away a popular program from Americans. Fund the programs for a few years and the hold outs will co-sponsor the bills to keep them going.
The weirdest thing to me is that the pay for, included in the bill, is more popular than the rest of the bill, including with Republicans and independents, and yet the paid for price keeps being a 'sticking point' with a stupid centrist dem until suddenly he started talking about 'it's not about the cost but the programs'. WTF?

But yeah, if the price has to come down do it all and make it the cost of next elections. 'See, this stuff is all absolutely needed and good, and you'll lose it if you vote GOP'. Do it cowards. Own the good stuff for once.
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Old 7th October 2021, 11:21 AM   #2446
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As The Intercept recently pointed out, $3.5t (over 10 years) is 1.2 percent of the American economy.

Also, despite the "tax and spend," fling that we always hear, the reconciliation bill has quite a few targeted tax cuts. But they are cuts for poor people, so I guess they don't count. A lot of the shrink from $6t initial price tag has been narrowing the means testing and income caps.

But still, a transformative step for updating America...is literally just 1.2% of our economy and mostly spent in ways that will put money in average peoples pockets so they'll spend yet more money.
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Old 7th October 2021, 11:33 AM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
As The Intercept recently pointed out, $3.5t (over 10 years) is 1.2 percent of the American economy.

Also, despite the "tax and spend," fling that we always hear, the reconciliation bill has quite a few targeted tax cuts. But they are cuts for poor people, so I guess they don't count. A lot of the shrink from $6t initial price tag has been narrowing the means testing and income caps.

But still, a transformative step for updating America...is literally just 1.2% of our economy and mostly spent in ways that will put money in average peoples pockets so they'll spend yet more money.
Somewhat related to this point, I've also seen numbers that break things down to... this being $350 billion a year in spending, at a point when the government takes in about $300 billion a day. It's a significant expenditure, but not even remotely back-breaking.
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Old 7th October 2021, 12:31 PM   #2448
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
But still, a transformative step for updating America...is literally just 1.2% of our economy and mostly spent in ways that will put money in average peoples pockets so they'll spend yet more money.


And most of the programs being suggested are actually quite popular, across party lines. By and large, it isn't the GOP voters who have a problem with this package, it's literally just a bunch of politicians.
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Old 7th October 2021, 12:36 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And most of the programs being suggested are actually quite popular, across party lines. By and large, it isn't the GOP voters who have a problem with this package, it's literally just a bunch of politicians.
Who want to be seen as stopping the commiesocialistlibtards from their "out of control spending".
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Old 7th October 2021, 12:43 PM   #2450
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Yeah but like I've said before all the "Guberment spending is outta control OMG!!!!111!!" stuff sells really well to two key demographics that make up a lot of the Republican Base:

1. "Common sense, salt of the Earth" types who can't get beyond seeing government spending in the context of comparing it to their own private spending habits and think things like "Listen I'm a simple man and I didn't get to be the third biggest tractor tire salesman in the state by spending money like the government does."

2. People who think we deserve to be punished for letting the government get "too big."
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Old 7th October 2021, 04:42 PM   #2451
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Biden is now on to round FOUR of forgiving student loans for those few whom he deems worthy of this special treatment while still hiding behind the lie that he doesn't think he can forgive student loans.
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Old 7th October 2021, 05:16 PM   #2452
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Biden is now on to round FOUR of forgiving student loans for those few whom he deems worthy of this special treatment while still hiding behind the lie that he doesn't think he can forgive student loans.
You're being rather unfair and inaccurate. He's never said he couldn't forgive student debt; he said he didn't know if he could forgive up to $50K in student debt . What is being decided is if he can do so legally through executive actions.

Biden campaigned on two promises regarding student debt.

What he has done:

Quote:
Since Biden took office, he's taken a number of actions to address the $1.7 trillion student-debt crisis.

They include cancelling debt for borrowers with disabilities and extending the payment pause on loans.

Democrats are pushing for him to cancel $50,000 in student debt per person, which the DOJ is reviewing.
Quote:
As one of his first actions in office, Biden extended the pause on student-loan payments through September, coupled with zero growth in interest, to ensure borrowers suffering financially would not have to worry about paying off their loans. That is now running through January 2022.

Since then, Education Secretary Miguel Cardona has cancelled billions in student debt for borrowers with disabilities and borrowers defrauded by for-profit schools. He's also started conducting reviews of student loan forgiveness programs that don't work as they should.
Quote:
[hilite]At a CNN town hall in February, Biden said he doesn't have the executive authority to cancel up to $50,000 in student debt per person, but said he is prepared to cancel $10,000 — something he campaigned on. The same month, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters that Biden will ask the Justice Department to review his legal authority to cancel $50,000 in student debt. Biden's administration has not yet commented on the status of the Justice Department's review.
Quote:
And White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain told Politico in April that Biden had asked Cardona to create a memo on the president's legal authority to forgive $50,000 in student loans per person.

Biden will "look at that legal authority," Klain said. "He'll look at the policy issues around that, and he'll make a decision. He hasn't made a decision on that either way, and, in fact, he hasn't yet gotten the memos that he needs to start to focus on that decision."
https://www.businessinsider.com/stud...disabilities-6
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Old 7th October 2021, 06:35 PM   #2453
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
America is not "broke" in any way. In fact, America could pay off the entire debt any time it wanted it. All it has to do is print the money to do it.

Now, you could argue (correctly) that this would lead to an economic disaster, and you would be exactly right. Which is why the US doesn't do that.

There is a balance between printing new money and borrowing. The risk of printing money is inflation. The risk of borrowing is out of control interest rates. But so far, that's not a problem. Interest rates are very low, so it's better for the government to keep borrowing.

It's not broke, it just chooses to borrow money because it's better fiscal policy.

If you have to print the money required to get out of debt which will in turn destroy your economy, you are pretty f'd, if not broke. I could grab a printer, make my own money and go to prison for doing so, but I'd be a billionaire.
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Old 8th October 2021, 05:03 AM   #2454
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If you have to print the money required to get out of debt which will in turn destroy your economy, you are pretty f'd, if not broke. I could grab a printer, make my own money and go to prison for doing so, but I'd be a billionaire.
Wow, this is really a stupid take on it.

You realize where money comes from, don't you? Hint: not from me, not from you. But yes, the US government literally prints money.
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Old 8th October 2021, 05:29 AM   #2455
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Again whenever anyone compares the Federal Budget to their own personal finances you can be assured they both have no idea what they are talking about AND are putting actual effort into making sure they don't know what they are talking about.

"If I printed my own money, I'd go to prison, but the government does it..."

Yeah you also aren't allowed to raise your own army, collect your own taxes from your neighbors, and enter into bilateral trade agreements with Western Europe, all of which the government can do. Where do you lose you exactly?
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Old 8th October 2021, 01:01 PM   #2456
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah you also aren't allowed to raise your own army,

Erik Prince would like to have a word with you.
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Old 8th October 2021, 04:14 PM   #2457
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again whenever anyone compares the Federal Budget to their own personal finances you can be assured they both have no idea what they are talking about AND are putting actual effort into making sure they don't know what they are talking about.

"If I printed my own money, I'd go to prison, but the government does it..."

Yeah you also aren't allowed to raise your own army, collect your own taxes from your neighbors, and enter into bilateral trade agreements with Western Europe, all of which the government can do. Where do you lose you exactly?
It's especially dumb because it's incredibly common for households to run debt, even large debt, as a long term investment. Buying a house is pretty much impossible for most households without substantial debt. Same with going to college.

The only difference is that nations are big enough to borrow money from themselves, in the form of printing money and other things. Assuming the debt is drawn to fund things that will improve the economy, it's a no brainer.

Now drawing up a huge debt to fund a forever war in the middle east we're bound to lose is a bad deal, but paying so our bridges don't fall over or people can afford to have children is easy to justify.
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Old 8th October 2021, 05:26 PM   #2458
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Wow, this is really a stupid take on it.

You realize where money comes from, don't you? Hint: not from me, not from you. But yes, the US government literally prints money.

Was answering your stupid statement.
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Old 9th October 2021, 04:55 AM   #2459
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something needs to be done with the voting rights bill
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/8331006002/

Unfortunately it included words to ban gerrymandering and the Supreme Court already allows that, so that would be struck down. But other parts need to go forward before the 2022 election. Otherwise we will get another insurrection 2024.
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Old 9th October 2021, 06:51 AM   #2460
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Was answering your stupid statement.
I think your placement of "which will" was ambiguous.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:17 AM   #2461
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The weirdest thing to me is that the pay for, included in the bill, is more popular than the rest of the bill, including with Republicans and independents, and yet the paid for price keeps being a 'sticking point' with a stupid centrist dem until suddenly he started talking about 'it's not about the cost but the programs'. WTF?

But yeah, if the price has to come down do it all and make it the cost of next elections. 'See, this stuff is all absolutely needed and good, and you'll lose it if you vote GOP'. Do it cowards. Own the good stuff for once.
If the first bill cuts the cost of college in half by making the first two years at community college free, you force the hold out democrats and Republicans to double the cost of college when they refuse to renew the funding. There is a world of difference between Congress giving away free college and doubling the cost of higher education. Mathematically, it's the same thing but we're talking about politics here.
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:07 AM   #2462
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
something needs to be done with the voting rights bill
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/8331006002/

Unfortunately it included words to ban gerrymandering and the Supreme Court already allows that, so that would be struck down. But other parts need to go forward before the 2022 election. Otherwise we will get another insurrection 2024.
It's hard to say which is more important, the voting right bills or the climate change parts of the reconciliation bill. The voting rights bills have got to pass, and why would you include a ban on gerrymandering given SCOTUS has already OKed it, and this SCOTUS looks to be nowhere close to overturning that decision?

C'mon, Dems, think straight here! On the other hand, insert Will Roger's line about organized political parties here.
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Old 9th October 2021, 10:41 AM   #2463
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SCOTUS didn't rule that gerrymandering is OK. They ruled that they can't rule because there isn't a law on it yet.
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Old 9th October 2021, 11:40 AM   #2464
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
SCOTUS didn't rule that gerrymandering is OK. They ruled that they can't rule because there isn't a law on it yet.
Semantics. There's no meaningful distinction between the highest court in the land saying something is okay and passively saying that it's not not okay.
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Old 9th October 2021, 11:48 AM   #2465
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Semantics. There's no meaningful distinction between the highest court in the land saying something is okay and passively saying that it's not not okay.
I think it would impact injunctive relief.
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Old 9th October 2021, 12:52 PM   #2466
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Being able to pass a law on the subject and have it take effect, or not being able to do so, is apparently no meaningful distinction.
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Old 9th October 2021, 01:46 PM   #2467
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Semantics. There's no meaningful distinction between the highest court in the land saying something is okay and passively saying that it's not not okay.
It is a question of separation of powers. If they can't fairly base a decision on an existing statute, or on constitutional grounds and case law around it, they can't make a material ruling just because they oppose the outcome on principle. Nor is it fair to criticize them for failing to act on principle. If they fail to properly apply a power they clearly have, that's a different reason to criticize.

I am going to want to read the gerrymandering decision sometime because I feel like they had an opportunity there, since it impacts federal elections. But I often understand better after reading.
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Old 9th October 2021, 09:22 PM   #2468
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
It's hard to say which is more important, the voting right bills or the climate change parts of the reconciliation bill.
The voting rights bill because if Republicans are allowed to cheat as much as they want, they will destroy any climate change legislation when they get power.
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Old 10th October 2021, 07:28 AM   #2469
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The voting rights bill because if Republicans are allowed to cheat as much as they want, they will destroy any climate change legislation when they get power.
I think that's one of the things some people forget here. I'm all for the leftest of leftist agendas, but if the pursuit of them puts the Republicans back in power, it's a lost cause. In moral pursuits and literature and the like, you can put the cause in italics, but in statecraft, the pertinent word is "lost."
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Old 10th October 2021, 07:52 AM   #2470
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think that's one of the things some people forget here. I'm all for the leftest of leftist agendas, but if the pursuit of them puts the Republicans back in power, it's a lost cause. In moral pursuits and literature and the like, you can put the cause in italics, but in statecraft, the pertinent word is "lost."
You're begging the question that pursuit of leftist goals would put Republicans back into power any faster than feckless centrism.
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Old 10th October 2021, 08:12 AM   #2471
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
You're begging the question that pursuit of leftist goals would put Republicans back into power any faster than feckless centrism.
Yes I am, but I did remember to insert an "if" there. I think that if, as seems likely, the demand for some things makes it impossible for the Democratic party to make any changes, the "do nothing" image will be hard to shake. Too many people seem to feel that it's better to do something even if that something is devastatingly stupid.
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Old 10th October 2021, 08:25 AM   #2472
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Yes I am, but I did remember to insert an "if" there. I think that if, as seems likely, the demand for some things makes it impossible for the Democratic party to make any changes, the "do nothing" image will be hard to shake. Too many people seem to feel that it's better to do something even if that something is devastatingly stupid.
Then your problem isn't with the people pursuing positive change, as your earlier post would imply, but with the people who'd stymie it because they'd rather see nothing done.
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Old 10th October 2021, 08:31 AM   #2473
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Can we just start a Centrist Vs Progressive thread and stop having it be this weird conversation we're having on top of every discussion of Left politics?

- He says knowing he's as guilty as anyone and not missing the irony, but the point is still valid.
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Old 11th October 2021, 08:11 AM   #2474
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Quote:
‘Frustration is at an all-time high’: Behind Biden’s falling poll numbers

More disappointments followed. Robinson was dismayed that Biden did not push for filibuster reform to enact a $15 minimum wage. He was upset that the president did not try to halt a raft of voting restrictions passed by Georgia’s GOP-led legislature.

“I think the frustration is at an all-time high, and Biden can’t go to Georgia or any other Black state in the South and say, ‘This is what we delivered in 2021,’ ” said Robinson, whose group believes it reached 1.2 million Black men in Georgia. “Black men are pissed off about the nothingness that has happened . . . Does it make the work harder? It makes the work damn near impossible.”

After an initial burst of support, Biden has seen his approval ratings fall significantly in recent months. A Washington Post average of polls since the start of September shows 44 percent of Americans approve of Biden’s job approval, while 49 percent disapprove.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f5e_story.html

Seems likely that Biden's opportunity to make meaningful strides is quickly closing. Midterm elections are likely to break the tenuous Democratic control of the government.

If this is what winning looks like, many Democratic voters may not even bother participating in the electoral process.
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Old 11th October 2021, 08:33 AM   #2475
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Machin and the poor folks:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-bill-poverty


The poor folk do not seem to understand or have no time for news:"He’s facing political headwinds in his traditionally blue district, which Biden won by only four percentage points in 2020, and is being targeted by the National Republican Congressional Committee with an eye toward flipping his seat in the 2022 midterms." (Cuellar)
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:41 AM   #2476
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A prediction from a year ago that seems awfully relevant right now.

Quote:
I'm just so afraid that Biden's going to win and inherit a massive pandemic recession and subsidize the capital class while ******* up the landing for everyone else, stall progress on legislation that materially helps people, and then lose to an even worse Republican in 2024
https://twitter.com/crulge/status/1314717175664566272
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:39 AM   #2477
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What could be worse? Ted Cruz is Trump *light*.
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The republicans are here to save us from government/socialism. Which would like to give us healthcare. But that would make us weak. And generate a lot of old people.

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Old 13th October 2021, 02:31 PM   #2478
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Quote:
Trump Says Republicans Won't Vote In Midterms, 2024 Election if 2020 Fraud Isn't 'Solved'

Trump has been pushing that he rightfully won the 2020 presidential
election since the race was called for Biden and has been critical of legislators
and judges who don't back the belief as well. He has yet to prove widespread
fraud occurred that would have changed the outcome of the election and on
Wednesday, he railed against a Georgia judge who dismissed a fraud suit.

In a statement, Trump denied that little evidence has been produced
to prove he's the rightful winner of the presidential election, saying
that they've "thoroughly and conclusively documented" it. He added
that Republicans will withhold their votes in 2022 and 2024 if the election
fraud isn't "solved." He added it is the "single most important thing for
Republicans to do."

OMG!

Democracy can't work if only one party participates...
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Old 13th October 2021, 02:51 PM   #2479
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The head of the GOP actively campaigning on their voters staying home. Interesting strategy
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Old 13th October 2021, 03:17 PM   #2480
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LMAO I predict that MAGA voters will just pretend he never said that.
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