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Tags 2020 elections , Biden administration , Biden controversies , joe biden , Kamala Harris

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Old 8th June 2021, 06:55 PM   #241
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well it certainly sounded like something a rational person would say. I just happen to disagree with it.

Of course, I also believe that more focus on education is crucial, so it would certainly help in this process.



Presumably you will take this important function very seriously. Does that mean you'll be incommunicado, or just prevented from talking about the case?
It's the first call in. I don't know whether I'll be chosen to serve on a jury or not. I wasn't last time. I think it was because I had checked yes in two boxes: "have you ever been the victim of an assault,", and "do you have friends or family in law enforcement".
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Old 8th June 2021, 09:59 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Evidence? Presidents have been elected with fewer votes than the loser twice in 16 years, and Trump could have been re-elected in 2020 if a few thousand votes in three states had gone the other way despite losing by seven million popular votes. A citizen of Wyoming has about 40 times the power in the Senate of a citizen of California or Texas. Gerrymandering allows the minority party to decide who even has a chance to win a House seat. The aggressive voter suppression efforts across the country will disenfranchise millions of voters. A system that actively thwarts the will of the majority of citizens is hardly working "pretty damned well."
Declaring someone the "winner" of an election just because they received millions of more votes is the hobgoblin of small minds.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:23 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Quote:
I would like the Democratic Party in a partnership with the ACLU challenge these voting restrictions in every state that has implemented them. If Manchin wants to be a ass about blocking action on the federal level, we should attack the laws on the state level.
The conservative SCOTUS is pretty clear that they are ok with states radically restricting access to the ballot box. The same SCOTUS gutted the Voting Rights Act in the Shelby County decision, and since then it's picked up an additional seat to make it a 6-3 bench.
Two points should be made...

- It is true, the U.S. supreme court is no friend to democracy. But, I think many of these election laws might end up being decided at the state level (in the state supreme court). Depending on the state, the state-level judges might be more willing to strike down parts of various voter suppression bills, if they violate the state's constitution.

- People are complaining about Manchin blocking voting rights reform... but, I have to wonder, what if the Democrats did manage to get their voting rights bill passed? I am sure it would be immediately challenged by various red states... would the supreme court allow the law to stand? Or might the Democrats have spent a bunch of time working on a bill that gets struck down by the supreme court before the first election.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:41 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- People are complaining about Manchin blocking voting rights reform...
Just to poke at this a bit tangentially... the Koch organization is actively "supporting" Manchin's blockings.


Elsewhere...

Fox News did it again.

Quote:
Greg Gutfeld seemingly advocating for Putin to have President Biden killed.
Video clip at link. Apparently, there was a cut to commercial right after.
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Old 9th June 2021, 05:04 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Even Trumpist judges just give this a flat no for now. Give them more time to confirm judges, and we'll see. They need a massive level of actual evidence, not just "I heard they was a'cheatin'."
The judges are bypassed if state laws give the power to elected or appointed officials to reject the results at their discretion. I was already startled in 2020 by how much this is the case.
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Old 9th June 2021, 08:11 AM   #246
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President Biden is throwing out Trump-era bans on TikTok and WeChat after the former administration fought hard to prohibit the apps over national security concerns
.
President Biden signed an executive order rescinding a ban on TikTok and WeChat.
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/22757...urity-concerns
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Old 9th June 2021, 09:57 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Just to poke at this a bit tangentially... the Koch organization is actively "supporting" Manchin's blockings.


Elsewhere...

Fox News did it again.

Quote:
Quote:
Greg Gutfeld seemingly advocating for Putin to have President Biden killed.
Video clip at link. Apparently, there was a cut to commercial right after.
No, he's not. He says "them" not "him". He was referring to the hackers operating out of Russia.

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/06/f...s-putin-murder
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Old 9th June 2021, 11:01 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, he's not. He says "them" not "him". He was referring to the hackers operating out of Russia.

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/06/f...s-putin-murder
I'll accept that, but it's also worth quoting your link regarding the Fox's request to change it -

Quote:
We have the transcript below. It is the same transcript she sent. The word "them" is doing a lot of work in this piece, but the context does not suggest that any viewer would automatically connect hackers with what he said. Who is "them"? Biden and the envoy, or the hackers or climate change activists. After reviewing the longer video segment, we conclude that it's ambiguous.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:03 PM   #249
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These are situations for a sort of charity doctrine, just for sanity's sake--when an interpretation is ambiguous, to default to assuming the least inflammatory interpretation. Normalizing otherwise can bite back, hell especially with a new president having a history of verbal stumbles.

Past history may give a hint, but not compelling enough to actually add the current instance as an example in the future. Or else it's possible for a cloud of ambiguous statements to justify a malicious interpretation of another ambiguous statement.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:06 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you talking a random lot from a pool of citizens?



HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE AVERAGE CITIZEN LATELY? My god, man! Do you really wish that upon us?
Same people who populate juries. I've often toyed with the idea that if I ever went on trial I'd ask for a judge to decide my case rather than risk the vagaries of 12 of my fellow citizens.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:08 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is the key. The Dems must get out and vote. They have too much of a history of not coming our in large numbers whereas Republicans do. Stacey Abrams did an excellent job in Georgia of getting the Black/people of color out to vote. Of course, Georgia has now done everything they can think of short of establishing a literacy test to keep them from repeating that kind of turn out.
The other key that will make your key irrelevant is to prevent the Repubs from rigging who can overturn the results of an election and how, as they are doing Iva some laws in several states right now.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:09 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Same people who populate juries. I've often toyed with the idea that if I ever went on trial I'd ask for a judge to decide my case rather than risk the vagaries of 12 of my fellow citizens.
It really depends what you think of the judge. The jury is there, in theory, to keep any backroom dealing or institutional agenda from forcing the outcome.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:11 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Same people who populate juries. I've often toyed with the idea that if I ever went on trial I'd ask for a judge to decide my case rather than risk the vagaries of 12 of my fellow citizens.
The argument against that approach is that for felony convictions I believe the jury verdict must be unanimous now. This was a fairly recent development.
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Old 9th June 2021, 12:21 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I'll accept that, but it's also worth quoting your link regarding the Fox's request to change it -

Quote:
Quote:
We have the transcript below. It is the same transcript she sent. The word "them" is doing a lot of work in this piece, but the context does not suggest that any viewer would automatically connect hackers with what he said. Who is "them"? Biden and the envoy, or the hackers or climate change activists. After reviewing the longer video segment, we conclude that it's ambiguous.
C & L is bending over backwards in an attempt to make excuses for their own article that misrepresented what Gutfeld was really saying when FOX requested they correct it. You notice that C & Liars did not provide the transcript, or even the relevant part, even though they say they have it. Why not let us read it and decide for ourselves whether it "does not suggest that any viewer would automatically connect hackers with what he said"? It makes far more sense that he was referring to the hackers since they were talking about Biden meeting with Putin about the hackers. Seriously, why would anyone assume Putin would kill Biden and the envoy or the climate change activists? That's just silly.
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Old 9th June 2021, 05:32 PM   #255
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A few weeks after Biden got inaugurated, there were signs of some "bipartisan" stuff. Then, a few more weeks, the election really was over, so focus on the 2022 and 2024 elections. How? Never support anything again, because that would prove that the election was not stolen. That is all that there is to the strategy. To use Trumpsters in 2022, this was the only way.

There is only one solution for Dems: stop filibuster.
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Old 10th June 2021, 06:21 AM   #256
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Republican playbook
1. there might have been Jan 6 riots
2. trump did not cause it
3. election was stolen
4 everything Trump promoted is true, Fauci is a fake. Example: Hydroxychloroquine
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1402966015827398662

If you are Manchin, you follow the book, mostly. Benefits to working class allowed (1400 check etc)
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Old 10th June 2021, 12:31 PM   #257
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From this Tweet:
https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/st...58764228485126

I learned something about libertarians I did not know before. The things they say about domestic matters also apply to the world. they think no international guidance is needed. IMF, WTO etc. All we need is capitalism!

It came up on twitter, link above, trying to explain how donating vaccines abroad helps us.
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The republicans are here to save us from government/socialism. Which would like to give us healthcare. But that would make us weak. And generate a lot of old people.

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Old 10th June 2021, 01:22 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
From this Tweet:
https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/st...58764228485126

I learned something about libertarians I did not know before. The things they say about domestic matters also apply to the world. they think no international guidance is needed. IMF, WTO etc. All we need is capitalism!

It came up on twitter, link above, trying to explain how donating vaccines abroad helps us.
From your link:


Quote:
Lauren Boebert
@laurenboebert
·
1h
Joe Biden is going to buy 500 million doses of the COVID-19 vaccine to donate to the rest of the world.

That actually translates to the US taxpayer buying 500 million vaccines.

In case anyone forgot, we’re nearly $30 trillion in debt.
So, NOW the national debt is important again! So predictable.
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:00 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
The judges are bypassed if state laws give the power to elected or appointed officials to reject the results at their discretion. I was already startled in 2020 by how much this is the case.
They really aren't - it's simple for just about anyone in the state to file a case in that event, and show they have standing, and judges have universally said "Oh, no way will you just throw out the vote after you have it."
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:24 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
From what I can see, "feeble" Biden still has more faculty than some of our posters here.
I think a lot of the drivel of this kind from the Trumpettes is that they, like their master, are inept, blustering, insecure people. They think that Trump's constant, inane, rants and pronouncements were a sign of his ability, and "masculinity" (something of an obsession with the rightists).

Biden is not an insecure, blustering cretin like Trump; he's a widely experiences, intelligent man with a deep understanding of people, societies and the complexity of the world. Unlike a certain failed scam-artist...
Biden also lacks Trumps deep seated inadequacy and insecurities, hence he's quite able to delegate to others, take advice from experts and listen.
Also unlike the Tantrump.
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:25 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm still waiting days later for Joecool to provide said 'unedited' evidence of Biden's 'feeble gaffes' even after providing him with links to both NHK and the S. Korea news online.

Ever notice how these guys disappear when asked to provide evidence?
Try the "Relativity is Wrong" threads....
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:29 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Everyone's political system is a mess. I have a certain pride that my country is the first in the world to approve SSM by popular vote. And I have a certain shame that my country continues to cover up the child abuse of the RCC.
Though that was down to Fine Gael's moral cowardice.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 11th June 2021, 05:15 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
They really aren't - it's simple for just about anyone in the state to file a case in that event, and show they have standing, and judges have universally said "Oh, no way will you just throw out the vote after you have it."
I don't think it has been tested in court recently--IIRC only a couple of instances came close, and ultimately went towards upholding the counted results. But now it's better known which are the key positions.
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Old 11th June 2021, 07:40 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
They really aren't - it's simple for just about anyone in the state to file a case in that event, and show they have standing, and judges have universally said "Oh, no way will you just throw out the vote after you have it."

I'd be interested to see what happens in this scenario:
  1. QOP:We've eliminated all those "illegal" ways to vote that were used for fraud!
  2. QOP:Oh my god, the Dems won anyways, FRAUD!!!!!
  3. QOP:Well, let's toss that one out.....
  4. Courts: Didn't you say you eliminated all the ways to vote illegally?
  5. QOP:.......
  6. Courts: Yeah, no, lol.
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Old 11th June 2021, 11:03 AM   #265
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1. QOP: "We've managed to just barely pass laws to eliminate some of the illegal ways to vote. Yay us! But watch out, those Dems just keep getting sneakier!"
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Old 11th June 2021, 11:08 AM   #266
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Joe Biden might have legit just saved more human lives than any human being since Norman Borlaug or Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov.

If that is what being a feeble gaff machine makes you do, bring it on.
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Old 11th June 2021, 12:31 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
1. QOP: "We've managed to just barely pass laws to eliminate some of the illegal ways to vote. Yay us! But watch out, those Dems just keep getting sneakier!"
Judge: "Hahaha, scram."

Again, not a real concern at the time. Compared to intimidation, violence, and other ongoing efforts to allow open racial suppression to be put in place, I suspect this one will be weak.

Of course, when you get outright "We can't teach our kids anything about racism, also we much teach the history of America" fascists like DeSantis and Abbot in play, they generally just keep going for it, and then urging cops to just gun black people (and, to avoid a particular term, their white allies) down, which they are headed towards, is when thing will really hit the fan.
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:38 PM   #268
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Boebert and others are demanding Harris visit the border. What is she supposed to do there? Homeland Security does not report to her. There is no factfinding to do anymore.

Visiting Mexico made more sense
https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...it-2021-06-09/
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:39 PM   #269
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What is she supposed to do check to make sure the border is still there?
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:40 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Boebert and others are demanding Harris visit the border. What is she supposed to do there? Homeland Security does not report to her. There is no factfinding to do anymore.

Visiting Mexico made more sense
https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...it-2021-06-09/
It's just something they can criticize.
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:54 PM   #271
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Yeah that's just boilerplate "heads I win tails you lose" rhetoric. If she went they could criticize her for seeking a "photo op".
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:57 PM   #272
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Maybe she should wait until she can visit Texas Gov. Abbott's "border wall" that he says Texas will construct along their southern border.
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Old 12th June 2021, 06:29 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Boebert and others are demanding Harris visit the border. What is she supposed to do there? Homeland Security does not report to her. There is no factfinding to do anymore.

Visiting Mexico made more sense
https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...it-2021-06-09/
Maybe she can yammer about how she's being taunted by coyotes while standing in tall grass and the coyotes are nowhere to be found...nah, been done.

In other news, now that Kristen Clarke is in place at the head of the DoJ Civil Rights Division (as with other women of color, the GOP dragged her nomination way out - I'm sure it's coincidental)
AG Garland has announced some rather significant moves, including doubling the number of voting rights lawyers (I think this is 12 to 24) in the next 30 days.

I assume these are internal reassignments, nobody gets hired by the federal government from outside within a month.

They'll apparently be targeting both election laws, sham audits, *and* election-related threats, with an eye on federal law, including criminal laws (threats against election officials is a pretty serious crime, as is tampering with ballots and equipment as I recall - I could easily be wrong on particulars here though).

THis basically puts Clarke - a fierce civil and voting rights advocate - with Ifill of the NAACP LDF and Marc Eliot's team, and since Clarke's a fierce advocate of civil and voting rights...this is a good announcement. Not "concrete court actions right now", and the Roberts court's historically and overtly demented view of voting rights is still a problem, but this is a good start to say "we're stepping up".
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Old 12th June 2021, 07:51 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What is she supposed to do check to make sure the border is still there?
You don't understand. Everything the Democrats do is bad. Everything they don't do is bad. That's the only strategy. It diverts the deplorables' attention from the election cheating and the enriching of the rich.
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Old 12th June 2021, 08:35 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You don't understand. Everything the Democrats do is bad. Everything they don't do is bad. That's the only strategy. It diverts the deplorables' attention from the election cheating and the enriching of the rich.
And let's not forget, when they get something the news media reacts to, that's a win for them. Lester Holt asking Harris when she was going to the border is a perfect example of the GOP leading the newscasters around by the nose. And Harris, who was not the best prepared, acted cornered, pleasing the GOP immensely. They hit a double.

RCP on the interview.

There are a dozen news reports demonstrating how easy it was for the right-wing mouth pieces to tell the story the way they wanted to.
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Old 12th June 2021, 09:10 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And let's not forget, when they get something the news media reacts to, that's a win for them. Lester Holt asking Harris when she was going to the border is a perfect example of the GOP leading the newscasters around by the nose. And Harris, who was not the best prepared, acted cornered, pleasing the GOP immensely. They hit a double.

RCP on the interview.

There are a dozen news reports demonstrating how easy it was for the right-wing mouth pieces to tell the story the way they wanted to.
Yeah, Holt didn't have to ask that question that way. But she's been in politics all her adult life, and she's a trial lawyer. She should have expected the question and been able to give a better answer. If she had said "I've visited the border several times as a Senator, and I receive regular reports about the conditions and issues. But visiting as Vice President would be so disruptive that it would impede the work that the border authorities are doing. That doesn't help anybody." No right-wing victory.
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Old 12th June 2021, 09:14 AM   #277
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Biden gives Boris a bicycle.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...mit/ar-AAKYIz9
https://www.bilenky.com/us-uk-friendship-bike

Last edited by Bob001; 12th June 2021 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 12th June 2021, 11:11 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yeah, Holt didn't have to ask that question that way. But she's been in politics all her adult life, and she's a trial lawyer. She should have expected the question and been able to give a better answer. If she had said "I've visited the border several times as a Senator, and I receive regular reports about the conditions and issues. But visiting as Vice President would be so disruptive that it would impede the work that the border authorities are doing. That doesn't help anybody." No right-wing victory.
Hopefully she'll be better prepared next time.

I would have said that's a meaningless GOP talking point. They'd do better to work on a bipartisan immigration policy than vying for news media sounds bites.

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Old 12th June 2021, 07:24 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
.....
People are complaining about Manchin blocking voting rights reform... but, I have to wonder, what if the Democrats did manage to get their voting rights bill passed? I am sure it would be immediately challenged by various red states... would the supreme court allow the law to stand? Or might the Democrats have spent a bunch of time working on a bill that gets struck down by the supreme court before the first election.
The bill has a lot of parts, and SC would pass judgment on each specific element of the bill in response to specific challenges. There's no reason to think they would or could reject every element.
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Old 12th June 2021, 07:28 PM   #280
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Even before the Conservative shift SCOTUS was pretty consistent on "States decide their own voting rules/procedures" every time any version of the question was asked.


Things like the Voting Rights Act of 1965 are the exception, not the rule.
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