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Old 6th October 2021, 01:04 PM   #401
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It is kind of weird (not bad, not wrong, just weird) that the "official" narrative still has to be that this massive manhunt and media coverage is over someone who's only been charged with using another person's debit card, a crime which I can only imagine happens fairly often.

"Officially" Laundrie is not a suspect or person of interest in the death of Petito which... again not wrong or bad but makes this weird if you look at it a certain way.
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Old 6th October 2021, 01:08 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Officially" Laundrie is not a suspect or person of interest in the death of Petito which... again not wrong or bad but makes this weird if you look at it a certain way.
I'm pretty positive he's at lest a person of interest, if not a murder suspect.
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Old 6th October 2021, 06:20 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by figarot View Post
I'm surprised he hasn't been caught. Initially thought the search would've been over a week ago with him sitting in custody refusing to say a word by now.
Me too. Perhaps even stranger is that they are still searching Carlton Reserve. It is a bunch of reserves and parks that are stuck together and it is very large (about the equivalent of 7 X 7 miles), but it seems they have been focusing on Carlton Reserve in the southwest corner.

It was reported that the search was being very scaled back. But it was larger today. It was reported that they asked Brian's father to join them today and apparently he agreed to do so. It sounds like maybe they found some clothes and want him to identify while avoiding the media circus outside their house.
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Old 6th October 2021, 06:23 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It is kind of weird (not bad, not wrong, just weird) that the "official" narrative still has to be that this massive manhunt and media coverage is over someone who's only been charged with using another person's debit card, a crime which I can only imagine happens fairly often.

"Officially" Laundrie is not a suspect or person of interest in the death of Petito which... again not wrong or bad but makes this weird if you look at it a certain way.
The death was ruled a homicide. He is certainly a suspect. A person has a right to a speedy trial. That is often waived because the defense usually wants more time to prepare. But if he is going to remain silent, he may ask for a speedy trial. A warrant on a murder change would start the clock ticking. With the unauthorized use charge they can arrest him on that and they already have a detention order. They can wait and charge him with murder when they have their case ready.
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Old 6th October 2021, 06:33 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
No final on the autopsy released yet, but "cause of death is very unusual". Per FOX.
Bogus headline. The actual story is that a former coroner said that not releasing the cause of death is very unusual. He says sometimes a corner will release a cause of death and later release the manner of death (homicide, accident, etc.) but not usually the other way around. My guess is that the cause of death is known and they just aren't officially releasing it in connection with the investigation.
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Old 7th October 2021, 05:14 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
My guess is that the cause of death is known and they just aren't officially releasing it in connection with the investigation.
I hope so.

Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I found it odd that the media referred to the recovery of her "remains" rather than her "body". From that I infer that something unusual took place (aside from, you know, murder.)
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Possibly - but not necessarily, I think. I'm not really sure that there is a convention of referring to "remains" if a victim's body has been disrupted somehow, I think they are more or less used interchangeably.
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
The body had plenty of time to be attracted to by wild animals. 2-3 weeks?
I've been in the general area where Gabby's remains were found. It would be quite surprising if her remains had not been disturbed by scavengers.

The spoiler tells a couple of stories that are not nice to think about.
Many years ago, I was asked to help search for an older woman who set out alone for what was to have been a short hike in the Cascades, which is of course a radically different climate and ecosystem. She must have gotten lost. Her scavenged remains were found, in scattered condition, about two weeks later.

My most vivid memory of a memorably miserable backpack in the Wind River Range, in the Bridger-Teton National Forest but far from where Gabby's remains were found, was of coming across a deer's lower leg. The leg was reasonably fresh. I spent several minutes looking for the rest of the deer, but found nothing.
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Old 7th October 2021, 08:51 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
I've been in the general area where Gabby's remains were found. It would be quite surprising if her remains had not been disturbed by scavengers.
This thread has taken a bit of a morbid turn. But, on this topic...

A news helicopter at the scene when the body was discovered said that they captured video of the body but they would not show it. Her step-father said he was out there and he put together the rock cross at the exact location where her body was (this was different from a different rock cross out there near the creek). He said police told him which way her head was laying and put the cross in that direction and put flowers there.

The coroner also made a very quick decision on homicide.

Those things indicate that the body was not significantly disturbed.
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Old 8th October 2021, 10:50 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think the reason this story has "legs" over most of the others, is the ongoing mystery, and the escalating involvement of the related parties.
It also keeps the story in the news when someone is using a family's personal tragedy to gin up his own publicity, for example Dog.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3821696...hing-fugitive/

Quote from Dog in the article, “So I'm gonna tell you right now Laundrie, I'm gonna catch you.” It's all about him. But who knows, even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn. He could get lucky, if Laundrie is not dead.
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Old 8th October 2021, 10:58 PM   #409
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I spent my teen years in the Rocky Mountains, and like mentioned in previous posts, it is not very often that you come across anything remotely resembling a whole animal carcass. It doesn't take long for scavenging critters to find something in the woods and begin taking pieces. Nothing evil or planned (except possibly by a murderer), it's just the way.
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Old 9th October 2021, 03:46 AM   #410
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If Dog finds him I would be most surprised and any estimation of the authorities' capabilities would go down several notches if that wannabe gets Brian.

I really want to read Brian's been caught but think nobody's looking in the direction he actually went wherever that is.
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Old 9th October 2021, 04:00 AM   #411
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Just read that Dog thinks Brian might be a serial killer because of what he has learned are the books Brian reads. The only book mentioned however is Chuck Palahniuk's Lullaby.

Such inanity poses an ever more inane question: What if Dog does come close to capturing Brian but Brian kills him?
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Old 9th October 2021, 04:11 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by figarot View Post
Just read that Dog thinks Brian might be a serial killer because of what he has learned are the books Brian reads. The only book mentioned however is Chuck Palahniuk's Lullaby.

Such inanity poses an ever more inane question: What if Dog does come close to capturing Brian but Brian kills him?
Brian gets his jail time reduced for good behavior.
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Old 9th October 2021, 04:26 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Brian gets his jail time reduced for good behavior.
Funnier reply than I expected though it was in that line.
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Old 9th October 2021, 05:22 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by figarot View Post
...

I really want to read Brian's been caught but think nobody's looking in the direction he actually went wherever that is.
The lack of a body turning up for him leads me to begin thinking along this line also. He didn't have get out of the country immediately, he just needed to get out of town. The Appalachian Trail theory springs to mind. He could try to work his way across the country by staying rural. He just may have the outdoor skills needed until he reaches a border, North or South.
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Old 9th October 2021, 08:02 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
The lack of a body turning up for him leads me to begin thinking along this line also. He didn't have get out of the country immediately, he just needed to get out of town. The Appalachian Trail theory springs to mind. He could try to work his way across the country by staying rural. He just may have the outdoor skills needed until he reaches a border, North or South.
News media reports on the search in the reserve because that is all they have. Even local law enforcement has said they have been doing much more than that; talking to people in the area and getting security videos from area people and businesses.

FBI is certainly doing a great deal of investigations that they don't report. News media isn't going to know about any of that. The only thing news media knows about is the search in the reserve. They constantly report about that because that is the only publicly available information they can report on.

I don't know much about going to other countries. But it seems like that would be a bad move. People have said that if he went into Mexico he likely would not have enough money to stay at a tourist resort very long and anywhere else would would stand out. There has been at least 180,000 dollar put up for his capture and possibly even another 500,000. People who know more about this than I do say that he would be easily identified and turned by by the cartels for the reward money.

Canada is not much better. Winter is coming. Without any identification, doing anything there is going to be a problem. He would be far better in the United States.
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Old 10th October 2021, 01:28 PM   #416
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I agree that going to another country would not be his smartest move, but he may not be the brightest bulb in the pack and is desperate. There is a huge homeless community that he could possibly hide amongst in this country, though. Panhandling and dumpster diving for survival. Some people choose it for a way of life, not necessarily out of necessity.
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Old 10th October 2021, 02:02 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
....
Canada is not much better. Winter is coming. Without any identification, doing anything there is going to be a problem. He would be far better in the United States.
I haven't had any personal experience, but by numerous accounts fake ID is pretty easy to get. It probably wouldn't be good enough to board a plane or fool a competent cop or cross a border, at least through an official checkpoint, but it would be enough to get on a long-haul bus, rent a room, work day labor and generally survive under the radar while he developed a better plan.
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Old 10th October 2021, 03:01 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I haven't had any personal experience, but by numerous accounts fake ID is pretty easy to get. It probably wouldn't be good enough to board a plane or fool a competent cop or cross a border, at least through an official checkpoint, but it would be enough to get on a long-haul bus, rent a room, work day labor and generally survive under the radar while he developed a better plan.
Agreed. Quite possible. Almost hiding in plain sight kind of thing.
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Old 11th October 2021, 06:22 PM   #419
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Canada has actually discovered cameras, and placed them along the border, those canny hosers!

And you're no more likely to get across the border on a bus than you are on a plane. The Canadian border has become a lot more locked down than the days when I could travel to Vancouver with nothing but a student ID (or sometimes no ID at all). And of course right now it's particularly hard to get across the border, even legally, as they've been doing a much better job of controlling Covid than we have in the US.
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Old 11th October 2021, 07:45 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Canada has actually discovered cameras, and placed them along the border, those canny hosers!

And you're no more likely to get across the border on a bus than you are on a plane. The Canadian border has become a lot more locked down than the days when I could travel to Vancouver with nothing but a student ID (or sometimes no ID at all). And of course right now it's particularly hard to get across the border, even legally, as they've been doing a much better job of controlling Covid than we have in the US.
We're smarter than we look, because we'd have to be.

I think it's not so hard to disappear in the US, though. The homeless are pretty anonymous, so just blend in.
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Old 12th October 2021, 08:58 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
The Appalachian Trail theory springs to mind.
So, he's in Argentina with a girlfriend then?
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:49 AM   #422
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Question: Assume Laundrie turns up. How hard will it be to successfully prosecute him for murder? They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Even DNA evidence wouldn't help since they were a couple. If his story is "We had a fight and she told me to get out of her life, so I did. She said she'd get home on her own," how would you prove otherwise?
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Old 12th October 2021, 09:54 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Assume Laundrie turns up. How hard will it be to successfully prosecute him for murder? They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Even DNA evidence wouldn't help since they were a couple. If his story is "We had a fight and she told me to get out of her life, so I did. She said she'd get home on her own," how would you prove otherwise?
Good question, he could also be using this time to heal up any defensive wounds he might have suffered in the confrontation.
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Old 12th October 2021, 10:20 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Assume Laundrie turns up. How hard will it be to successfully prosecute him for murder? They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Even DNA evidence wouldn't help since they were a couple. If his story is "We had a fight and she told me to get out of her life, so I did. She said she'd get home on her own," how would you prove otherwise?
Probably about as hard as it would be to prosecute a rape case. They were living and traveling together, so his DNA everywhere won't mean much. Unless he recorded it on his cell phone, all they really have is circumstantial.
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Old 12th October 2021, 10:41 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably about as hard as it would be to prosecute a rape case. They were living and traveling together, so his DNA everywhere won't mean much. Unless he recorded it on his cell phone, all they really have is circumstantial.
No. In a rape case you have the victim testifying against the attacker, in addition to whatever physical evidence might be available. In this case, no victim testimony, and limited physical evidence. Even if the autopsy shows she was shot, it's still a problem to prove he did it.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:06 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No. In a rape case you have the victim testifying against the attacker, in addition to whatever physical evidence might be available. In this case, no victim testimony, and limited physical evidence. Even if the autopsy shows she was shot, it's still a problem to prove he did it.
Begging the question. Legally, there's no victim until the rape has been proven in court. Just someone making a claim and bearing the burden of proof for that claim. Tawana Brawley didn't give victim testimony, because she was not a victim. Jackie Coakley didn't give victim testimony to Sabrina Erdely, because she was not a victim.

In this case, we actually do have a victim of... something. But the proposition that Laundrie murdered her is still largely a matter of he said/she said (with the "she" being whoever is claiming he murdered her and burdened with proving their claim).
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:58 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
So, he's in Argentina with a girlfriend then?
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Old 12th October 2021, 12:00 PM   #428
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The coroner's report on Gabby is out.

Coroner Reveals Precisely How Gabby Petito Was Killed (lawandcrime.com)
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Old 12th October 2021, 12:07 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
The coroner's report on Gabby is out.

Coroner Reveals Precisely How Gabby Petito Was Killed (lawandcrime.com)
I don't think there's any real surprise there.
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Old 12th October 2021, 12:33 PM   #430
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Here, I'll save everyone else two clicks and some scrolling:

"The cause of Petito’s death was “death by strangulation,” according to Teton County Coroner Dr. Brent Blue."
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:43 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't think there's any real surprise there.
No surprise, but I guess now it's officially a homicide investigation.
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:52 PM   #432
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Another key point from the article,

"Blue said Petito died about three to four weeks before her remains were found during a search on Sept. 19. "

That'd put the approximate date of death between August 23 to the 30th. He arrives back in Florida on September 1. Plenty of time for a cross country drive home afterward.
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Old 12th October 2021, 03:42 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Begging the question. Legally, there's no victim until the rape has been proven in court. Just someone making a claim and bearing the burden of proof for that claim. Tawana Brawley didn't give victim testimony, because she was not a victim. Jackie Coakley didn't give victim testimony to Sabrina Erdely, because she was not a victim.
.....
Great. Feel free to toss in "alleged" wherever it feels good.
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Old 12th October 2021, 03:46 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Here, I'll save everyone else two clicks and some scrolling:

"The cause of Petito’s death was “death by strangulation,” according to Teton County Coroner Dr. Brent Blue."
Hanged herself from the bridge over the creek?
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Old 12th October 2021, 04:13 PM   #435
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The boyfriend is likely dead also Id say.
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Old 13th October 2021, 12:57 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Assume Laundrie turns up. How hard will it be to successfully prosecute him for murder? They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Even DNA evidence wouldn't help since they were a couple. If his story is "We had a fight and she told me to get out of her life, so I did. She said she'd get home on her own," how would you prove otherwise?
I think a conviction would be likely. It certainly isn't a real easy case because it would rely mostly on circumstantial evidence. It could come down to the hazy area of reasonable doubt. But I think there is compelling circumstantial evidence that would be sufficient to prove the case.

DNA evidence can be exclusionary. If his DNA is out there and nobody else's is, that suggests that it was him.

He had the means, motive, and opportunity. His story would be they had a fight. That is the motive. The coroner report says cause of death is manual strangulation/throttling. In the Moab bodycam she shows police how he had grabbed her neck hard. He had the means. They were several miles down a forest road parked alone. He had the opportunity. Nobody else is know to have had the means, motive, and opportunity.

This story would mean that a young woman agreed to be abandoned on a lonely road out in the forest miles from even the next road while he took of in her van. He used her credit card to get home. Maybe she had more than one, or maybe he left her with no card or money. We don't know what happened to her phone.

That seems very unlikely. When he flew back to Florida 8/17 to 8/24 she had the van but stayed in a hotel even though they had limited finances. That may be because she was afraid to sleep in the van alone. The idea that she was agree to be left alone in the middle of nowhere is not very reasonable.

This would also mean that shortly after he took off, she was right where the van was and standing by the road or maybe trying to hitch a ride and it just so happened that a psycho killer immediately met her and strangled her with his hands and hauled her body across the creek. For some reason. With no other such killings in the area. This gets into unreasonable fantasy hypotheticals.

She was in regular contact with her family and some contact with her friends. In this scenario it is reasonable to believe she would have contacted them. She did not. She was to call her friend on her birthday on 8/29 to talk about her coming out to spend some time with them at Yellowstone. She did not.

Her mother received a message from her phone 8/30 at about 7 Am saying no service in Yosemite. That was obviously meant to Yellowstone. She had previously said they were in Grand Teton and planning to next go to Yellowstone. If it was a random psycho killer, that message is extremely unlikely.

That means under this story that he could say the breakup happened after that. But that means rushing back to Florida on a 36 hour trip in about 50 hours when the van was tracked by a license plate reader in North Port on 9/1 at 10:26 AM. That is possible, but that is a huge amount of driving. /he was hauling fast back home.

But then we have the witnesses picking him up hitchhiking on 9/29. One picked him up at Colton Bay and says he offered about $200 to take him to Jackson. They were going that way any way and gave him a ride. When they turned off on the scenic route instead of the route to Spread Creek, he demanded to get out.

He was picked up some time later about a mile away on the road to Spread Creek. He asked if she was going to Jackson. He was going another way (presumably east) and then he asked to go to Spread Creek. She took him there and started down the road where we now know the van and body was. He freaked out and insisted to be let out and not taken to the van.

When he got back home, he did not contact her family to say they broke up and he had her van and other belongings. His parents did not respond to her family's questions about where she was. He bought a new phone. When police showed up to ask about her they were lawyered up and refused to say anything. The lawyer refused to say anything.

He and his parents and his lawyer refused to provide any information when she was reported as missing. If they had agreed to separate, there is no reasons to expect foul play or criminal activity. He or at least his parents and really his lawyer would probably want to give what information they have. He left her, now she is not in communication. No criminal investigation. Just trying to find her. But they did not.

Then, of course, he went on the run. In this possible scenario, we can't characterize it any other way. That was the day the story hit the national news. If it was a break up, that doesn't mean anything. If he killed her and his intent was that her body likely would not be found, that is a significant day that make the body much more likely to be found.

This could go on with other publicly known details, but even this makes a solid case.

The defense would refute these with possible hypotheticals that could maybe possibly explain a circumstance or his actions. But when considering the totality of the circumstances, a jury would have to believe that an extraordinary event or extremely unusual behavior occurred over and over and over and over.

Or they could accept that the circumstances and his actions align perfectly with him killing her.

I would expect a jury would conclude that the circumstances and his actions and the lack of any other reasonable killer constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed her.

It could be murder, but it could possibly be manslaughter with lack to sufficient evidence to support all the elements of murder. I would expect a conviction of second degree murder or maybe voluntary manslaughter.
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:57 AM   #437
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Nice summary, DevilsAdvocate. I agree that his behavior strongly suggests consciousness of guilt. It's hard to conclude otherwise.
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:37 AM   #438
Sherkeu
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
-snip-
This story would mean that a young woman agreed to be abandoned on a lonely road out in the forest miles from even the next road while he took of in her van. He used her credit card to get home. Maybe she had more than one, or maybe he left her with no card or money. We don't know what happened to her phone.

That seems very unlikely. When he flew back to Florida 8/17 to 8/24 she had the van but stayed in a hotel even though they had limited finances. That may be because she was afraid to sleep in the van alone. The idea that she was agree to be left alone in the middle of nowhere is not very reasonable.

This would also mean that shortly after he took off, she was right where the van was and standing by the road or maybe trying to hitch a ride and it just so happened that a psycho killer immediately met her and strangled her with his hands and hauled her body across the creek. For some reason. With no other such killings in the area. This gets into unreasonable fantasy hypotheticals.

She was in regular contact with her family and some contact with her friends. In this scenario it is reasonable to believe she would have contacted them. She did not. She was to call her friend on her birthday on 8/29 to talk about her coming out to spend some time with them at Yellowstone. She did not.

Her mother received a message from her phone 8/30 at about 7 Am saying no service in Yosemite. That was obviously meant to Yellowstone. She had previously said they were in Grand Teton and planning to next go to Yellowstone. If it was a random psycho killer, that message is extremely unlikely.

That means under this story that he could say the breakup happened after that. But that means rushing back to Florida on a 36 hour trip in about 50 hours when the van was tracked by a license plate reader in North Port on 9/1 at 10:26 AM. That is possible, but that is a huge amount of driving. /he was hauling fast back home.

But then we have the witnesses picking him up hitchhiking on 9/29. One picked him up at Colton Bay and says he offered about $200 to take him to Jackson. They were going that way any way and gave him a ride. When they turned off on the scenic route instead of the route to Spread Creek, he demanded to get out.

He was picked up some time later about a mile away on the road to Spread Creek. He asked if she was going to Jackson. He was going another way (presumably east) and then he asked to go to Spread Creek. She took him there and started down the road where we now know the van and body was. He freaked out and insisted to be let out and not taken to the van.
-snip-
Exactly right. Hard to explain away so many things at this point.

Recall that the van was recorded on the side of the road on Aug 27th by a family in a motorhome. Seems like Brian was faking phone issues so family wouldnt be concerned for a few more days.
Her last text was Aug 30 as you said, so we'd have to believe she stayed there tucked into the side of the road between 2 distant campgrounds, for almost 3 days. Then Brian came back from stomping around the woods hitching rides and took her van and all her stuff and she was coincidentally killed by someone else.

If she sent the text, it should be right from that location where her body was found - where the van was supposedly still parked Aug 30. (Or the "real killer" sent the text which puts us into an OJ-level whack-a-mole defense)

Then there is Aug 31 activity on Gabby's Spotify account where a new playlist appears called "selfconsumption". Someone was using the account when he HAD to be driving home at that point. Did he have his phone tracking him up to then, or did he play music some other way?
Sept 1 he is home. Sept 4 he is getting a new phone (on his ATT account) -so he must have ditched his phone at some point.

The best evidence would be if Gabby took some herself. Some skin/blood under her nails and a clump of his hair right there at the site.

Wyoming doesnt release much more than cause and manner.
I did see the official statement which said death was due to "manual strangulation/throttling".

Last edited by Sherkeu; 13th October 2021 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 13th October 2021, 07:08 AM   #439
theprestige
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I think a conviction would be likely. It certainly isn't a real easy case because it would rely mostly on circumstantial evidence. It could come down to the hazy area of reasonable doubt. But I think there is compelling circumstantial evidence that would be sufficient to prove the case.
As a potential juror, I would be very dubious of this evidence. What follows is my opinion only.

Quote:
DNA evidence can be exclusionary. If his DNA is out there and nobody else's is, that suggests that it was him.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Maybe the cops didn't look hard enough for other DNA. Maybe the real perp was careful. Maybe the real perp was lucky. At best, DNA can only show he was there. This is not in dispute.

Quote:
He had the means, motive, and opportunity. His story would be they had a fight. That is the motive. The coroner report says cause of death is manual strangulation/throttling. In the Moab bodycam she shows police how he had grabbed her neck hard. He had the means. They were several miles down a forest road parked alone. He had the opportunity. Nobody else is know to have had the means, motive, and opportunity.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Fights are not usually motives for murder. They're just fights. The Moab footage is suggestive, but not conclusive. Strangulation is not a novel or even unusual method.

Quote:
This story would mean that a young woman agreed to be abandoned on a lonely road out in the forest miles from even the next road while he took of in her van. He used her credit card to get home. Maybe she had more than one, or maybe he left her with no card or money. We don't know what happened to her phone.

That seems very unlikely.When he flew back to Florida 8/17 to 8/24 she had the van but stayed in a hotel even though they had limited finances. That may be because she was afraid to sleep in the van alone. The idea that she was agree to be left alone in the middle of nowhere is not very reasonable.
This is an appeal to incredulity. I'm not going to convict a man of murder on such thin stuff.

Quote:
This would also mean that shortly after he took off, she was right where the van was and standing by the road or maybe trying to hitch a ride and it just so happened that a psycho killer immediately met her and strangled her with his hands and hauled her body across the creek. For some reason. With no other such killings in the area. This gets into unreasonable fantasy hypotheticals.
I'm not really interested in the prosecutor's fantasies about what absurd events obviously didn't happen, so therefore he must be right. I don't know the formal name for whatever fallacy that is, but I'm sure it has one. At this point the prosecutor has put himself in the position of having to prove a negative: Either Brian did it, or it must have been some other absurd scenario, all of which the prosecutor is attempting to rule out simply by waving his hands and shouting "unreasonable fantasy hypotheticals".

It's the DNA all over again. Maybe the cops didn't look hard enough. Maybe the real perp was clever. Maybe the real perp was lucky.

Quote:
She was in regular contact with her family and some contact with her friends. In this scenario it is reasonable to believe she would have contacted them. She did not. She was to call her friend on her birthday on 8/29 to talk about her coming out to spend some time with them at Yellowstone. She did not.

Her mother received a message from her phone 8/30 at about 7 Am saying no service in Yosemite. That was obviously meant to Yellowstone. She had previously said they were in Grand Teton and planning to next go to Yellowstone. If it was a random psycho killer, that message is extremely unlikely.
More appeal to incredulity. This is not evidence that Laundrie killed her.

Quote:
That means under this story that he could say the breakup happened after that. But that means rushing back to Florida on a 36 hour trip in about 50 hours when the van was tracked by a license plate reader in North Port on 9/1 at 10:26 AM. That is possible, but that is a huge amount of driving. /he was hauling fast back home.

But then we have the witnesses picking him up hitchhiking on 9/29. One picked him up at Colton Bay and says he offered about $200 to take him to Jackson. They were going that way any way and gave him a ride. When they turned off on the scenic route instead of the route to Spread Creek, he demanded to get out.

He was picked up some time later about a mile away on the road to Spread Creek. He asked if she was going to Jackson. He was going another way (presumably east) and then he asked to go to Spread Creek. She took him there and started down the road where we now know the van and body was. He freaked out and insisted to be let out and not taken to the van.

When he got back home, he did not contact her family to say they broke up and he had her van and other belongings. His parents did not respond to her family's questions about where she was. He bought a new phone. When police showed up to ask about her they were lawyered up and refused to say anything. The lawyer refused to say anything.
Too thinly circumstantial.

Quote:
He and his parents and his lawyer refused to provide any information when she was reported as missing. If they had agreed to separate, there is no reasons to expect foul play or criminal activity. He or at least his parents and really his lawyer would probably want to give what information they have. He left her, now she is not in communication. No criminal investigation. Just trying to find her. But they did not.

Then, of course, he went on the run. In this possible scenario, we can't characterize it any other way. That was the day the story hit the national news. If it was a break up, that doesn't mean anything. If he killed her and his intent was that her body likely would not be found, that is a significant day that make the body much more likely to be found.
More circumstance and incredulity.

Quote:
This could go on with other publicly known details, but even this makes a solid case.
Not to me.

Quote:
The defense would refute these with possible hypotheticals that could maybe possibly explain a circumstance or his actions. But when considering the totality of the circumstances, a jury would have to believe that an extraordinary event or extremely unusual behavior occurred over and over and over and over.
I think the prosecutor is doing enough work with hypotheticals for both sides. Has he investigated all these other possibilities and exhaustively ruled them out? Of course not. Meanwhile, he has not conclusively ruled in the one possibility he actually needs to address: Brian Laundrie's hands around Gabby Petito's neck, strangling her to death.

Quote:
Or they could accept that the circumstances and his actions align perfectly with him killing her.
Not good enough for me. Not unless the actions you're talking about are him putting his hands around her neck and strangling her to death.

Quote:
I would expect a jury would conclude that the circumstances and his actions and the lack of any other reasonable killer constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt that he killed her.
Preponderance of evidence? Sure. Beyond reasonable doubt? Not to me.

Quote:
It could be murder, but it could possibly be manslaughter with lack to sufficient evidence to support all the elements of murder. I would expect a conviction of second degree murder or maybe voluntary manslaughter.
I think it's obvious that something bad happened, and that Laundrie panicked and reacted poorly. If you asked my lay opinion, I'd say Laundrie probably murdered her. But if you ask me to sit on a jury and listen to the prosecutor explain why they're certain the state is entitled to imprison this man for the rest of his life, and his explanation is this pile of circumstance, then I would acquit.
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Old 13th October 2021, 07:20 AM   #440
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A clue that there is forensic evidence?

Rewatched the presser and...
The coroner passes on all the questions asking about Brian or evidence they may have but then a local reporter asks him about how it was working in a small town coroners office on a case with such big media attention and the coroner says:

Quote:
Coroner, Dr. Brent Blue: "Well, it was quite the media circus, and continues to be... uh
Unfortunately, this is only one of many deaths around the country of people who are involved in domestic violence and it's unfortunate that these other deaths should not get as much coverage as this one. I'm assuming that because the deceased was a blogger that this received more coverage than others but there are a lot of both men and women who have lost their lives that aren't covered with this kind of media attention"
He said repeatedly that he could not comment on who did it as that was for law enforcement and the FBI to determine, but it seems like he did anyway by saying "domestic violence".

Last edited by Sherkeu; 13th October 2021 at 07:24 AM. Reason: added quote tag
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