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Tags dylan farrow , mia farrow , sexual misconduct charges , woody allen

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Old 2nd February 2014, 02:36 AM   #1
Morrigan
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Dylan Farrow's open letter about Woody Allen's sexual abuse

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-dylan-farrow/

Sickening stuff.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 03:01 AM   #2
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Annie Hall.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 03:53 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
If it's true.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 04:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
If it's true.
I think we'll just have to wait and see if Woody Allen sues.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 04:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think we'll just have to wait and see if Woody Allen sues.
According to this article, which attempts to put some of the history in perspective, he may not realise the extent of the current controversy:

Quote:
... Woody still types on a 60-year old manual typewriter). When I [Robert Weide] wrote him the day after the ceremony, he was vaguely aware that Mia and Ronan had badmouthed him (again), but he wasn’t certain what Twitter was. (He’s heard of blogging and always confuses the two.) Because he doesn’t go online, he was blissfully unaware of how much ink (sorry, bandwidth) the story was getting.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...t-so-fast.html
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Old 2nd February 2014, 04:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think we'll just have to wait and see if Woody Allen sues.
And if he doesn't, what will that prove?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 04:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
According to this article, which attempts to put some of the history in perspective, he may not realise the extent of the current controversy:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...t-so-fast.html
The story might be printed in Dissent, or Commentary. Or in the merged publication, Dissentary.

Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
And if he doesn't, what will that prove?
I suppose it wouldn't prove anything, just like it wouldn't prove anything if he was sentenced and jailed for paedophilia and rape, however, printing false allegations of paedophilia and rape is something we might expect someone to sue a publication over.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 05:04 AM   #8
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But these allegations aren't new, so I don't see how the fact they're being made again demonstrates anything one way or another.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 05:20 AM   #9
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I still don't understand Farrow's decision not to go ahead with the prosecution. Putting the victim first is understandable, but it seems to have had a really negative effect upon the poor child.

I wonder if he's still open to prosecution in certain places? There's no statute of limitations on serious sexual offences in the UK, for example.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 07:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
And if he doesn't, what will that prove?
No idea but I feel that it is wrong to convict a man on the basis of a blog. Why doesn't she go to the police?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 07:52 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Annie Hall.
Well played.

Times have changed since "Annie Hall" was the toast of the film industry.

Has Woody changed?

Here's another one people have forgotten ... Blame it on Rio.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 08:33 AM   #12
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he problaby didnt do it because he makeded the funny movies i liked!!
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Old 2nd February 2014, 08:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
Not so fast....
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Old 2nd February 2014, 08:55 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Here's another one people have forgotten ... Blame it on Rio.
Featuring a topless Demi Moore. A terrible movie, but what does it have to do with Woody Allen?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 08:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Well played.

Times have changed since "Annie Hall" was the toast of the film industry.

Has Woody changed?

Here's another one people have forgotten ... Blame it on Rio.
I don't think anyone ever accused Michael Caine of being a kid toucher. What's your point?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Featuring a topless Demi Moore. A terrible movie, but what does it have to do with Woody Allen?
Originally Posted by thrombus29 View Post
I don't think anyone ever accused Michael Caine of being a kid toucher. What's your point?
It has to do with middle aged men having sex with underaged females.
IIRC, Muriel Hemingway's character was supposed to be 17 in Annie Hall, and in Blame it on Rio, the young lady was supposed to be 15. (I may have remembered it wrongly. I saw that movie on a ship at sea over thirty years ago.)
EDIT: summary from IMDB.
Quote:
Caine plays a man on holiday in Rio with his best friend. Both men have teenage daughters with them. When Caine falls for the amorous daughter (played by Michelle Johnson) of his best friend, they embark on a secret, if slightly one-sided relationship. Johnson's father is furious when he finds out about the 'older man' in his daughter's life, and sets out to hunt him down with the aid of Caine!
The Lolita theme wasn't as objectionable then as it is now.
That ^^^ is what I read as being Cain's reference.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
It has to do with middle aged men having sex with underaged females. IIRC, Muriel Hemingway's character was supposed to be 17 in Annie Hall....
17 is legal, depending on where you are.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Worth reading.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
17 is legal, depending on where you are.
I am aware of that.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
I am aware of that.
But you said...

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor
It has to do with middle aged men having sex with underaged females.
"Underaged" is generally accepted to mean "illegal".
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
IIRC, Muriel Hemingway's character was supposed to be 17 in Annie Hall . . .
Mariel Hemingway wasn't in Annie Hall. Diane Keaton was.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 09:42 AM   #22
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Manhatten, not Annie Hall, I think.

Manhattan (1979)
96 min - Comedy | Drama | Romance - 25 April 1979 (USA)
8.1 Your rating: -/10 Ratings: 8.1/10 from 81,413 users Metascore: 82/100
Reviews: 214 user | 111 critic | 9 from Metacritic.com
A divorced New Yorker currently dating a high-schooler brings himself to look for love in the mistress of his best friend instead.

Director: Woody Allen
Writers: Woody Allen, Marshall Brickman
Stars: Woody Allen, Diane Keaton, Mariel Hemingway | See full cast and crew »


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079522/
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:18 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
It'd be interesting to hear a rebuttal to this piece from those who believe that Allen's guilty.
I'm not particularly familiar with the accusations.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:26 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
Worth reading.
Very much so. One might even say . . .enlightening.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:39 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
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By the time I saw her third tweet, asking, “Is he a pedophile?” and linking to the Vanity Fair article, my most charitable thought was that this woman needs to get over herself. A more mischievous part of me wanted to repost her tweet, but swap out her link for one leading to an article about the recent 10-year jail sentence received by her brother, John Charles Villiers-Farrow, for multiple counts of child molestation—a topic she’s been unusually quiet about, considering her penchant for calling out alleged (let alone, convicted) molesters to whom she’s exposed her children.
Aaaand this guy's opinions no longer matter to me. Retorting a woman's claims that her ex-husband was a pedophile with a joke about her brother who was jailed for child molestation?
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:44 AM   #26
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No, he's partisan. Just cross all that stuff out and read the relevant parts.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:56 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
It'd be interesting to hear a rebuttal to this piece from those who believe that Allen's guilty.
I'm not particularly familiar with the accusations.
There's not much to rebut, really; it's basically nothing but insinuation.

The problems he asserts primarily involve the doctors not finding any evidence of damaged body parts, the primary doctor's assessment that the 7-year-old was either "emotionally disturbed or coached", and the fact that the tapes her mother made of her statements (at 7) have cuts in them, which he asserts makes it probable that the girl was coached between takes.

The rebuttals would simply be that: 1) I don't know enough about the claims to know whether any penetrative rape was alleged, so I don't know how important to the case that no medical damage was found is; a "merely" touched/fondled child will show no physical trauma obviously. 2) An emotionally disturbed child is one possible (even anticipated) consequence of molestation, so stating the girl was either emotionally disturbed or coached is no more conclusive or probative than stating "she may or may not have been molested". 3) The author of this piece quotes a nanny who gave a press interview stating her skepticism that the girl was molested. This nanny also talked about the tape-making sessions; she says that when the mother asked a question about the alleged abuse and the daughter didn't seem to feel like talking about it, she'd turn the camera off and ask again later. The nanny does not mention any coaching between "takes"; the filming of the tape as described seems above-board to me.

Basically the author spends a lot of words portraying Allen as a victim, the mother as a vindictive liar, and the then-7-year-old girl as confused, which he condescendingly projects onto the now-adult woman, saying he "believes that she believes it happened" (even though it didn't, of course).

Basically, the tl;dr of his wordy editorial is "the investigation was inconclusive". Which we already know.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 10:59 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post

Wow. I just learned everything I thought about that episode is false. Excellent article.

I always thought Allen avoided the spotlight to avoid the controversy but it turns out it's just who he is.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
But these allegations aren't new, so I don't see how the fact they're being made again demonstrates anything one way or another.
Apparently this is the first time that Dylan Farrow has spoken publicly about the alleged abuse.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:09 AM   #30
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From Vanity Fair in 1992: this is long and a bit tabloid-y but fills in the back story. At best Woody Allen looks like a grade A creep.

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/a...1/farrow199211
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:11 AM   #31
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The rebuttal seems to focus on the one incident in the attic, but did it specifically address any of the other things in the paragraph beginning "For as long as I could remember" here: http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-dylan-farrow/ ? It seemed a good defense except for that, though I may have missed the part that addressed the other things.

Of course, it's possible that the incident in the attic actually did not occur, while the other events did, and the statements about the attic incident were coached and false, while the other less provable incidents were real.

"Inconclusive" seems to sum it up, but admittedly I hadn't heard about the situation before and don't know anything about it except from reading the two articles.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Wow. I just learned everything I thought about that episode is false. Excellent article.

I always thought Allen avoided the spotlight to avoid the controversy but it turns out it's just who he is.
Yes, fawning documentarians are truly the best, most impartial judges of a celebrity's character and internal motivations. It's just who they are!

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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:26 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Pup View Post
The rebuttal seems to focus on the one incident in the attic, but did it specifically address any of the other things in the paragraph beginning "For as long as I could remember" here: http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-dylan-farrow/ ? It seemed a good defense except for that, though I may have missed the part that addressed the other things.

Of course, it's possible that the incident in the attic actually did not occur, while the other events did, and the statements about the attic incident were coached and false, while the other less provable incidents were real.

"Inconclusive" seems to sum it up, but admittedly I hadn't heard about the situation before and don't know anything about it except from reading the two articles.
It is possible, but coaching and making up something false make it far less probable that the rest is true. If the rest was true, there would not have needed making up a false attic incident. just sayin'.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:51 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Well played.
As usual, you give me more credit than I deserve. In the blog she twice asked "What's your favorite Woody Allen movie?" Annie Hall.

As for the allegations, I remember reading about them awhile ago (but seven or eight years after they were made) and being sickened. I took to some message-board, but people more familiar with the case pointed out it was far from clear cut.

I do not recall all these other events -- putting his head in her bare lap, getting under the covers in his underwear, etc. -- but relying solely on intuition, that pattern of inappropriate behavior seems to make more sense than simply violating a person one time in the attic, especially for an adult with daily contact.

From Scrut's article:

Quote:
A brief but chilling synopsis of the accusation is as follows: On August 4, 1992, almost four months after the revelation about Woody and Soon-Yi’s relationship understandably ignited a firestorm within the Farrow household, Woody was visiting Frog Hollow, the Farrow country home in Bridgewater, Connecticut, where Mia and several of her kids were staying. During an unsupervised moment, Woody allegedly took Dylan into the attic and, shall we say, “touched her inappropriately.”....

I know I’m treading a delicate path here, and opening myself up to accusations of “blaming the victim.” ... But if Mia’s account is true, it means that in the middle of custody and support negotiations, during which Woody needed to be on his best behavior, in a house belonging to his furious ex-girlfriend, and filled with people seething mad at him, Woody, who is a well-known claustrophobic, decided this would be the ideal time and place to take his daughter into an attic and molest her, quickly, before a house full of children and nannies noticed they were both missing.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 11:52 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
It is possible, but coaching and making up something false make it far less probable that the rest is true. If the rest was true, there would not have needed making up a false attic incident. just sayin'.
Unless I missed it, there hasn't actually been any evidence of coaching or making up anything false (aside from an opinion piece written by a friend and admirer of Allen in which he states that he suspects it is possible that those things might have happened).

Just sayin'.

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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:04 PM   #36
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I have a lot of sympathy for the possible victim and the difficulty she has in proving her story.

That said, the Conn. police investigated at the time and chose not to file charges. The truth will never be known, I suspect, and it must be re-minded to all that these are accusations and not proof.

In many ways it might be best if Allen were charged, and gets to defend himself, in a court of law. If he sues, at least a legal opinion will be obtained.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:21 PM   #37
colander
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
I still don't understand Farrow's decision not to go ahead with the prosecution. Putting the victim first is understandable, but it seems to have had a really negative effect upon the poor child.
Declining to press charges isn't exactly what I'd call an admirable choice, but it's certainly an understandable one from Mia Farrow's perspective. If the thing had gone to trial, she'd be badmouthed by both sides: Allen's defenders would try to paint her as a manipulative witch who coached her child to make up a molestation story, and Allen's detractors wouldn't feel too much love for a mother who noticed signs of molestation but didn't put a stop to it.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:23 PM   #38
TeapotCavalry
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
Unless I missed it, there hasn't actually been any evidence of coaching or making up anything false (aside from an opinion piece written by a friend and admirer of Allen in which he states that he suspects it is possible that those things might have happened).

Just sayin'.
Hasn't been any direct evidence of anything, except allegations and insinuations. We're talking probabilities and what if-s, and Aepervius has a point.

What would suggest couching are the cuts in the tape, nanny's testimony and their family doctor's assessment. None of these of course prove anything.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:29 PM   #39
Newtons Bit
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
I still don't understand Farrow's decision not to go ahead with the prosecution. Putting the victim first is understandable, but it seems to have had a really negative effect upon the poor child.

I wonder if he's still open to prosecution in certain places? There's no statute of limitations on serious sexual offences in the UK, for example.
Four of my females friends/ex-girlfriends have been raped. All four chose not to press charges. I don't understand that either, but it's not unusual from where I sit.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 12:34 PM   #40
colander
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Originally Posted by TeapotCavalry View Post
Hasn't been any direct evidence of anything, except allegations and insinuations. We're talking probabilities and what if-s, and Aepervius has a point.

What would suggest couching are the cuts in the tape, nanny's testimony and their family doctor's assessment. None of these of course prove anything.
Yep, you're right: cuts in a video and lack of obvious genital injury to the victim are, indeed, not direct evidence of anything.

On the other hand, the fact that there were third-party witnesses to Allen's questionable behavior with towards young Dylan would tend to point towards the veracity of those allegations.
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