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Tags Illinois incidents , satanism , Satanism incidents

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Old 14th December 2018, 12:56 PM   #441
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
This is the last reply because you absolutely refuse to admit that you may be wrong in your interpretation of what they are doing. And my understanding of what your point is will clearly always be wrong because no one else in this thread can be right but you. You are just going to keep insisting that we are all purposely?? misinterpreting what you are saying.

And I did not freewheel complain, you asked about others experiences with christians in an earlier post. But I guess if I didn't quote it, it didn't happen.
No. You said I am dripping with disdain...for a group I wholeheartedly support. That is skimming posts, lifting keywords, and passing judgment.

A d for Christ's sake, of course I may be wrong. But I do not hold the positions I am being lambasted for. Y'all declare yourselves mind readers. Its freaking infuriating.
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Old 14th December 2018, 01:03 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Let's just all agree that whatever Thermal's point is we all support it and agree with him 100%, but it's rude of him to post about it here and does his cause more harm than good.

Does that satisfy everyone? If not, why not? I'm actually making what I'd otherwise call a point if it weren't as blunt as a sledgehammer.
Thermal: yeah, these guys have every right to do what they are doing but they're kind of being dicks about it

TM: You hate gays and Pride Parades!

Yeah, the problem is totally me.

But you know what? You win. I'll withdraw my totally serious sculpture donated by the Church of the Swinging Johnson and have this battle another time. The mob wins!

And neither of us will appreciate that final irony.
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Old 14th December 2018, 01:10 PM   #443
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Wait, why did anyone care who in the world thermal thinks are not nice?
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Old 14th December 2018, 01:13 PM   #444
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No! Stop! Its over! There was no actual discussion, but it's ******** over!
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Old 14th December 2018, 02:06 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No! Stop! Its over! There was no actual discussion, but it's ******** over!
Wait! Before it's over I just want to extend an invitation to any skyclad witches out there looking for a yard to celebrate in during the next solstice. Mi yarda es tu yarda.

Unlike some, I'm open minded about non-Christian practices of holiday celebrations.
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Old 14th December 2018, 03:10 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Wait! Before it's over I just want to extend an invitation to any skyclad witches out there looking for a yard to celebrate in during the next solstice. Mi yarda es tu yarda.

Unlike some, I'm open minded about non-Christian practices of holiday celebrations.

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Old 15th December 2018, 09:08 PM   #447
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Things are getting interesting.

Illinois State Senator Paul Schimpf has formally requested the removal of snaketivity in the form of a letter to the Illinois Secretary of State Jesse White. State Representatives Terri Bryant and Rep Dave Severin have co-sponsored House resolution 1355, condemning the inclusion of the sculpture (while not outright calling for its removal). Oddly enough, all three are Republicans. Seretary of State White, who is sticking to his guns regarding the sculpture remaining, is a Democrat.

https://patch.com/illinois/springfie...lay-be-removed

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/g...877fbd28e.html
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Old 15th December 2018, 09:16 PM   #448
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"The Republicans are the ones that don't understand that other religions get to exist" isn't interesting. I think we all already knew that.
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Old 15th December 2018, 09:28 PM   #449
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It's interesting that there is now a state senator trying to remove it. By all counts, he should know better. Likely he does, and this is just posturing.

They're still not a real religion, tho.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:23 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's interesting that there is now a state senator trying to remove it. By all counts, he should know better. Likely he does, and this is just posturing.

They're still not a real religion, tho.
If Buddhism is a religion, then the satanic temple is.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:32 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If Buddhism is a religion, then the satanic temple is.
On what grounds? Did Buddhist founders go to an existing large religion, lift its names, imagery, and themes, then claim they don't believe in them while making it their stated mission to remove the influence of the larger sect?

The Satanic Temple is a secular challenge to the influence of Christianity, and a welcome one. They are not a religion in and of themselves.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:40 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
On what grounds? Did Buddhist founders go to an existing large religion, lift its names, imagery, and themes, then claim they don't believe in them while making it their stated mission to remove the influence of the larger sect?

The Satanic Temple is a secular challenge to the influence of Christianity, and a welcome one. They are not a religion in and of themselves.
You describe Christianity and Christmas. Christianity and Judaism stole the themes from a number of religions (great flood, God creating a Demi God) while making it their stated mission to depose other religions (evangelism).
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:42 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
On what grounds? Did Buddhist founders go to an existing large religion, lift its names, imagery, and themes, then claim they don't believe in them while making it their stated mission to remove the influence of the larger sect?
Kind of. Buddhism sprang out of Hinduism. Christianity came out of Judaism. And Hinduism and Judaism came out of earlier religions. Very few religions are invented in a vacuum (like Scientology), most begin as offspring of older religions.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:47 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Kind of. Buddhism sprang out of Hinduism. Christianity came out of Judaism. And Hinduism and Judaism came out of earlier religions. Very few religions are invented in a vacuum (like Scientology), most begin as offspring of older religions.
Even Scientology is a culmination of American occultism that started in the mid 1800s. For example, After WW2 hubbard worked on occultism with Jack Parsons, a thelemite under aleister Crowley.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:54 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You describe Christianity and Christmas. Christianity and Judaism stole the themes from a number of religions (great flood, God creating a Demi God) while making it their stated mission to depose other religions (evangelism).
Disagreed. Their stated mission of Christianity is the salvation of its adherents, and conversion of the 'heathen'. Deposing is not actually on their to-do list, at least in theory.
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Old 16th December 2018, 06:58 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Kind of. Buddhism sprang out of Hinduism. Christianity came out of Judaism. And Hinduism and Judaism came out of earlier religions. Very few religions are invented in a vacuum (like Scientology), most begin as offspring of older religions.
True, but those were not, as far as we know, systematically invented over coffee. The Temple is not a group of rebels or 'protestants' who left their sects as a splinter group. They are non-believers who pragmatically adopt the mechanisms of believers for socio-political gains.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:00 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Even Scientology is a culmination of American occultism that started in the mid 1800s. For example, After WW2 hubbard worked on occultism with Jack Parsons, a thelemite under aleister Crowley.
*I wouldn't consider Scientology a religion either, as much as a cult. Definitions get a little slippery, conceded in advance
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:01 AM   #458
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The Christians a working hard... Are they as big a dick as the Satanists, yet?
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:02 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
True, but those were not, as far as we know, systematically invented over coffee. The Temple is not a group of rebels or 'protestants' who left their sects as a splinter group. They are non-believers who pragmatically adopt the mechanisms of believers for socio-political gains.
I would bet most of them are Protestants who left their sect.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:05 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
The Christians a working hard... Are they as big a dick as the Satanists, yet?
Christians have traditionally been the biggest dicks around for centuries, also conceded. They are the freaking Johnny Holmes of religiosity, agreed. In the original Roman, they are the Biggus Dickus.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:06 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I would bet most of them are Protestants who left their sect.
Left, and summarily rejected in toto. Not evolved from, per the other examples.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:20 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Left, and summarily rejected in toto. Not evolved from, per the other examples.
Distinction without a difference.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:27 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Distinction without a difference.
Major difference, in the context of whether or not they are a religion.

TST has summarily rejected all tenets of religion and religious thought...and claimed to be a religion of it. The other examples embraced the spirituality or trancendency or whatever of their sects.

It's funny to claim to be the religion of no-religion. You could shave with that edge. I did when I was a teenager.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:41 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's funny to claim to be the religion of no-religion. You could shave with that edge. I did when I was a teenager.
Edge? It’s the near unanimous opinion expressed by the vocally religious towards anyone who says out loud they’re atheist. I’d call it more like rolling with the punch than being edgy.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:44 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
Edge? It’s the near unanimous opinion expressed by the vocally religious towards anyone who says out loud they’re atheist. I’d call it more like rolling with the punch than being edgy.
Not sure I'm following you. You think TST is being pushed around by the Christians, or at least somebody? TST seems to be the more aggressive thorn in the paw, AFAICS.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:45 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Major difference, in the context of whether or not they are a religion.

TST has summarily rejected all tenets of religion and religious thought...and claimed to be a religion of it. The other examples embraced the spirituality or trancendency or whatever of their sects.

It's funny to claim to be the religion of no-religion. You could shave with that edge. I did when I was a teenager.
And then added a bunch of stuff. I'm an atheist and I'm not signing up for their substitute ethos and substituted beliefs.
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Old 16th December 2018, 07:56 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And then added a bunch of stuff. I'm an atheist and I'm not signing up for their substitute ethos and substituted beliefs.
The stuff they added is satirical window dressing, not substance. The t-shirt you wear need not reflect your core belief system.

The Church of Satan, IIRC, still plays at some kind of ritual magic. They would fit more closely to an actual religion, if also ultimately a send-up.
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Old 16th December 2018, 08:09 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The stuff they added is satirical window dressing, not substance. The t-shirt you wear need not reflect your core belief system.

The Church of Satan, IIRC, still plays at some kind of ritual magic. They would fit more closely to an actual religion, if also ultimately a send-up.
This is their argument

Quote:
The idea that religion belongs to supernaturalists is ignorant, backward, and offensive. The metaphorical Satanic construct is no more arbitrary to us than are the deeply held beliefs that we actively advocate. Are we supposed to believe that those who pledge submission to an ethereal supernatural deity hold to their values more deeply than we? Are we supposed to concede that only the superstitious are rightful recipients of religious exemption and privilege? Satanism provides all that a religion should without a compulsory attachment to untenable items of faith-based belief. It provides a narrative structure by which we contextualize our lives and works. It also provides a body of symbolism and religious practice — a sense of identity, culture, community, and shared values.
I do not have a narrative structure or engage in religious practice. They do. And it separates them from me.

Satirical window dressing is no different than the fake gods worshipped by other religions.
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Old 16th December 2018, 08:27 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is their argument



I do not have a narrative structure or engage in religious practice. They do. And it separates them from me.

Satirical window dressing is no different than the fake gods worshipped by other religions.
Consider what they claim Satanism provides: 'a sense of identity, culture, community, and shared values'. The same attributes could be applied to a sports fan. This is not what makes a religion, IMO, although the courts have ruled that they don't know what the hell does either.

Your atheist lifestyle need not be similar to theirs. They openly claim to be atheistic, and evidently do nothing whatsoever that is consistent with the concept of a religion...till it suits their socio-political agenda. Good for them, in that light.

Pulling a Potter Stewart, I don't know where the line is between what a religion is or isn't, but these cats are solidly on the not-religion side of it.
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Old 16th December 2018, 08:36 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not sure I'm following you. You think TST is being pushed around by the Christians, or at least somebody? TST seems to be the more aggressive thorn in the paw, AFAICS.
I just mean I don’t think that “ok fine, I’ll play by what you’re going to call me anyway” is what “being edgy” is. It’s more, idk, embracing the straw man.

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Old 16th December 2018, 08:39 AM   #471
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Hey, now this is really interesting in context of this discussion, and hasn't been noted yet IIRC: the NY Times reports that there is another display at the rotunda. It is a Solstice display by a vehemently anti-religious group that has been there for years, alongside the nativity and menorah and all. No one is raising any stink about it, AFAIK.

The times also reports that David Druker, spokesperson for the statehouse, says that it has only recieved a few complaints about snakey handy thingy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/u...s-capitol.html
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Old 16th December 2018, 08:44 AM   #472
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I just mean I don’t think that “ok fine, I’ll play by what you’re going to call me anyway” is what “being edgy” is. It’s more, idk, embracing the straw man.
I gotcha. I think that TST was more proactive and assertive in creating their persona, though. They may be embracing the strawman, but it seems quite willingly and enthusiastically, based on their writings.
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Old 16th December 2018, 10:14 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Disagreed. Their stated mission of Christianity is the salvation of its adherents, and conversion of the 'heathen'. Deposing is not actually on their to-do list, at least in theory.
You're not even remotely familiar with the concept of Abrahamic religion, are you? Christianity? Islam? Protestant reformation? Church of England?
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Old 16th December 2018, 10:21 AM   #474
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
You're not even remotely familiar with the concept of Abrahamic religion, are you? Christianity? Islam? Protestant reformation? Church of England?
I am familiar with the concept of the Klan, too. Got a point you'd like to get to?
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Old 16th December 2018, 11:52 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
#BLM
Bare Ladies Matter
Always. No matter how cruel, brutal and domineering the Christian majority is, no matter how long the Christians and their brain washed minions try and shame women concerning their unclad bodies, no matter how many evil people try and silence alternative beliefs to their own, my yard is and always will be open to the skyclad wiccans and their apprentices.

#BLM
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Old 16th December 2018, 12:25 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Always. No matter how cruel, brutal and domineering the Christian majority is, no matter how long the Christians and their brain washed minions try and shame women concerning their unclad bodies, no matter how many evil people try and silence alternative beliefs to their own, my yard is and always will be open to the skyclad wiccans and their apprentices.

#BLM
Sure, you say that now, but when the skyclad dicks show up you'll find yourself doubting the sincerity of their beliefs.
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Old 16th December 2018, 12:31 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Sure, you say that now, but when the skyclad dicks show up you'll find yourself doubting the sincerity of their beliefs.
I knew you'd come around. Some swingin' skyclad schlong puts socio-religious rudeness right into perspective
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Old 16th December 2018, 05:08 PM   #478
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I knew you'd come around. Some swingin' skyclad schlong puts socio-religious rudeness right into perspective
You seem a little fixated on penis displays. Are you aware that there's religions with exactly that?
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