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Old 5th August 2013, 06:29 AM   #1
rcfieldz
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Georgia Guidestones/ Guidestones blown up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
Anyone got something to add to this? I havn't made a decision on what to think of it yet.
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Old 5th August 2013, 06:54 AM   #2
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I think I'll not think about it. That's more than it deserves.
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Old 5th August 2013, 07:02 AM   #3
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I read about this several years ago. There is probably at least one thread about this somewhere in the JREF. I think it's kind of cool even if the messages probably don't really mean anything. It's too bad that people have vandalized it. There is no need for that. Whatever one thinks about it, it's a work of art at the very least.
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Old 5th August 2013, 07:37 AM   #4
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I guess if I had anything to add, I'd be editing wikipedia pages, instead of hanging out here. Never heard of it before though, so thanks for pointing it out.

My first thought, after having read what someone or some group decided were the tenets that humanity should prioritize, was: 'must be nice to be rich.'
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Old 5th August 2013, 07:42 AM   #5
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I think the L E Modesitte Jr book Adamante mentioned them, as a bunch of blank monuments that a post-apocalyptic civilization 'recycled' along with all the other monuments in the world (except for the city of Cherry Creek).
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Old 5th August 2013, 08:51 AM   #6
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Meh. Cool sculpture, but so what? Some guy decided to inscribe a bunch of thoughtful words on granite. Big deal. You can visit any cemetery and see the same thing on a smaller scale many times over.

Why are you in a flux about what to think about it?
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Old 5th August 2013, 08:58 AM   #7
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Seems to be kind of a non-controversial nice set of thoughts inscribed on granite. Date of inscription, inscribing company, erection date, all known and recent. Languages all well known. Person paying for it anonymous. Not sure what the issue is?
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Old 5th August 2013, 09:08 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Tiktaalik View Post
Seems to be kind of a non-controversial nice set of thoughts inscribed on granite. Date of inscription, inscribing company, erection date, all known and recent. Languages all well known. Person paying for it anonymous. Not sure what the issue is?
I agree, except for the number of people it specifies. The body count will be pretty high, if we're supposed to eliminate 90% of the human race.
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Old 5th August 2013, 09:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pup View Post
I agree, except for the number of people it specifies. The body count will be pretty high, if we're supposed to eliminate 90% of the human race.
See, this is what some people are up in arms about, thinking that it's being suggested that the human race be "culled" to bring it down to that number, but that's not what it says at all.
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Old 5th August 2013, 01:29 PM   #10
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ia+guidestones

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4198
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Old 5th August 2013, 01:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Psi Baba View Post
See, this is what some people are up in arms about, thinking that it's being suggested that the human race be "culled" to bring it down to that number, but that's not what it says at all.
I didn't realize that people were up in arms about that. It was the one thing that jumped out at me, so apparently it's jumped out at others. Till now, I didn't read far enough down the Wikipedia site to see the conspiracy theories section, where "culled" is used.

As far as I could tell from Wikipedia, the stone itself doesn't say anything one way or the other about how it would be accomplished. It actually says "maintain," but that ship has sailed long ago, so "maintaining" the population at 500 million is meaningless. I just took it as a silly feel-good fantasy that, if you stop to think about it, is actually not so feel-good after all, like such things often are.
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Old 5th August 2013, 02:17 PM   #12
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oops!

Last edited by fuelair; 5th August 2013 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 5th August 2013, 02:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Well done - I did it as soon as I read the OP and first two posts as I was sure it had been here before. Oftener even than I remembered!!
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Old 5th August 2013, 02:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Interesting how in both of the threads linked to above, as well as this thread, all feature an OP taking no stance whatsoever and just "throwing it out there for discussion." (So to speak).

[sharkweek] It's like chum in the water. [/sharkweek]
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Old 5th August 2013, 02:56 PM   #15
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I am highly skeptical that the Egyptian hieroglyphs read "Let these be guidestones to an Age of Reason." I'm not sure what they say, although I'm fairly certain that the last word is NOT "reason."

Nice art, interesting concepts, but there's no one coming around to enforce it. It's basically an expensive version of "Desiderata."

(last words seem to be "balance/harmonious" (ma'at) and "documents.")

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Old 5th August 2013, 04:21 PM   #16
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Never heard of it before, but here are my thoughts...

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

Given that world population was already over 4 billion when the inscription was made, it's an odd guideline. World population hasn't been that low since around the year 1500.

I can't help wonder what the author(s) of this guideline expect people to do about it. Institute a global one-child per family policy? Or hope that people will voluntarily choose not to have kids until world population falls below that level?

But even assuming that we do manage to reduce world population to 7% of its current level, there'd be huge economic collapse, poverty and suffering during the period of adjustment.

2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

Ah, eugenics. I'm not a fan. This isn't even a new idea, Plato suggested it over 2300 years ago.

Exactly who are we going to put in charge of deciding who we are or are not allowed to reproduce with?

3. Unite humanity with a living new language.

Why a new language? Why not an existing one?

But this has been tried before, Esperanto being the most well-known attempt. The problem being that most people live in societies of other people who speak the same language as they do, and have access to a vast body of literature and entertainment in their own native language.

And which language do you choose? Wikipedia lists more than 40 languages invented for this purpose over the last 200 years, but none of them have been successful.

What incentive do people have to learn a new language for which there are no native speakers, they're unlikely to ever need to use, and for which virtually no literature or entertainment exists?

You'd have to force people to learn this language in order to make it work.

4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.

A pretty useless guideline, as it's very vague and highly subjective. There's no way to tell if it's being followed or not.

5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.

They're already meant to be fair and just. But how do you objectively determine whether or not they actually are fair and just?

6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.

Strange. Many of the guidelines in this list could only be enforced if there were some kind of international body that can overrule internal government of a nation.

7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.

How do you do this? By what metric do you determine which laws are actually "petty" and which officials are "useless"?

Some might insist that laws against jaywalking are petty, others might insist that they're essential for public safety. Some might say that laws against pubic nudity are petty, others might insist that they're not. There are some who actually do argue that laws against drunk driving are petty and should be removed.

8. Balance personal rights with social duties.

Once again, very vague and subjective to the point of uselessness.

9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.

Not only vague, but the part about "seeking harmony with the infinite" seems to be gibberish.

10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

If we kept our population under 500,000,000 like in the first command, this would be easy. The entire population of the world could fit inside a single nation (India and China each have more than twice that population) and the rest of the world could be free from human occupation.
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Old 5th August 2013, 04:55 PM   #17
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Somebody in the late 70's decided to spend his money on a few granite slabs full of warm and fuzzy sentiments. Big Freaking Deal.
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Old 5th August 2013, 04:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pyrts View Post
I am highly skeptical that the Egyptian hieroglyphs read "Let these be guidestones to an Age of Reason." I'm not sure what they say, although I'm fairly certain that the last word is NOT "reason."

Nice art, interesting concepts, but there's no one coming around to enforce it. It's basically an expensive version of "Desiderata."

(last words seem to be "balance/harmonious" (ma'at) and "documents.")
Funny, "Desiderata" is what I thought of.

I prefer the "Deteriorata" myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey6ugTmCYMk
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Old 5th August 2013, 05:34 PM   #19
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I think the fact that rcfieldz doesn't know what to think about a largely insignificant granite sculpture is stranger than the sculpture itself.

rc, have you ever seen the Washington Monument? If so, you must have been stunned for weeks.
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Old 7th August 2013, 01:38 PM   #20
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No comparison

Originally Posted by desertgal View Post
I think the fact that rcfieldz doesn't know what to think about a largely insignificant granite sculpture is stranger than the sculpture itself.

rc, have you ever seen the Washington Monument? If so, you must have been stunned for weeks.
Wow...I have been to some of our nation's capitol monuments and the mint, Smithsonian, and more. So if I take a few large stones and engrave a few choice statements and plant these rocks on some acreage then people can contemplate my thoughts and words for centuries...
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Old 7th August 2013, 02:18 PM   #21
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You're welcome for the links.
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Old 7th August 2013, 02:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
So if I take a few large stones and engrave a few choice statements and plant these rocks on some acreage then people can contemplate my thoughts and words for centuries...
That does seem to have been the idea behind the Georgia Guidestones. Too bad they didn't actually make any statements worth contemplating for centuries.
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Old 7th August 2013, 02:49 PM   #23
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I know a particular individual who believes the guidestones are a holy writ of "they," and their intentions are clearly stated.

How this fits into how "they" are going to accomplish their goals and why'd they put them on the guidestones in Ga. is a little hazy.
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Old 7th August 2013, 04:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Brian-M View Post
Never heard of it before, but here are my thoughts...

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

Given that world population was already over 4 billion when the inscription was made, it's an odd guideline. World population hasn't been that low since around the year 1500.

I can't help wonder what the author(s) of this guideline expect people to do about it. Institute a global one-child per family policy? Or hope that people will voluntarily choose not to have kids until world population falls below that level?

But even assuming that we do manage to reduce world population to 7% of its current level, there'd be huge economic collapse, poverty and suffering during the period of adjustment.

2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

Ah, eugenics. I'm not a fan. This isn't even a new idea, Plato suggested it over 2300 years ago.

Exactly who are we going to put in charge of deciding who we are or are not allowed to reproduce with?

3. Unite humanity with a living new language.

Why a new language? Why not an existing one?

But this has been tried before, Esperanto being the most well-known attempt. The problem being that most people live in societies of other people who speak the same language as they do, and have access to a vast body of literature and entertainment in their own native language.

And which language do you choose? Wikipedia lists more than 40 languages invented for this purpose over the last 200 years, but none of them have been successful.

What incentive do people have to learn a new language for which there are no native speakers, they're unlikely to ever need to use, and for which virtually no literature or entertainment exists?

You'd have to force people to learn this language in order to make it work.

4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.

A pretty useless guideline, as it's very vague and highly subjective. There's no way to tell if it's being followed or not.

5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.

They're already meant to be fair and just. But how do you objectively determine whether or not they actually are fair and just?

6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.

Strange. Many of the guidelines in this list could only be enforced if there were some kind of international body that can overrule internal government of a nation.

7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.

How do you do this? By what metric do you determine which laws are actually "petty" and which officials are "useless"?

Some might insist that laws against jaywalking are petty, others might insist that they're essential for public safety. Some might say that laws against pubic nudity are petty, others might insist that they're not. There are some who actually do argue that laws against drunk driving are petty and should be removed.

8. Balance personal rights with social duties.

Once again, very vague and subjective to the point of uselessness.

9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.

Not only vague, but the part about "seeking harmony with the infinite" seems to be gibberish.

10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

If we kept our population under 500,000,000 like in the first command, this would be easy. The entire population of the world could fit inside a single nation (India and China each have more than twice that population) and the rest of the world could be free from human occupation.
11. Live in Harmony, Or Else.

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Old 7th August 2013, 04:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
Wow...I have been to some of our nation's capitol monuments and the mint, Smithsonian, and more. So if I take a few large stones and engrave a few choice statements and plant these rocks on some acreage then people can contemplate my thoughts and words for centuries...
Knock yourself out.
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Old 7th August 2013, 06:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
Wow...I have been to some of our nation's capitol monuments and the mint, Smithsonian, and more. So if I take a few large stones and engrave a few choice statements and plant these rocks on some acreage then people can contemplate my thoughts and words for centuries...
If you need help raising funds, count me in, I'd like to immortalized some words too. If you find yourself 20 bucks short I will donate a brick stamped "YMMV". I'll call it my legacy.
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Old 7th August 2013, 07:29 PM   #27
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The vandalism that was done on it is hilarious. "Jesus will beat u Satanist!" "Skull & Bones Sucs dick" and more. The vandals just as screwed up and kooky as the authors...
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Old 7th August 2013, 07:32 PM   #28
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The Georgia Guidestones are what happens when a woo gets enough money to buy land and pay someone to carve his words in concrete.
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Old 7th August 2013, 08:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The Georgia Guidestones are what happens when a woo gets enough money to buy land and pay someone to carve his words in concrete.

I don't think it's woo, more a case of warm and fuzzy sentiment devoid of careful consideration.
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Old 7th August 2013, 09:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
Wow...I have been to some of our nation's capitol monuments and the mint, Smithsonian, and more. So if I take a few large stones and engrave a few choice statements and plant these rocks on some acreage then people can contemplate my thoughts and words for centuries...
That largely depends on the quality of the statements.
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Old 7th August 2013, 10:45 PM   #31
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The originators were pretty deft, making themselves seem mysterious and powerful, keeping people guessing. If people knew that it was just some goofy hipster cult it probably would have been far more of a laughing stock, and that's pretty much the reason they gave for staying anonymous. hahahaha
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
A 1981 article in the monthly magazine UFO Report cited Naunie Batchelder (identified in the story as "a noted Atlanta psychic") as predicting that the true purpose of the guides would be revealed "within the next 30 years."
Guys we should be finding out their true purpose any day now!

http://www.wired.com/science/discove...urrentPage=all
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Old 8th August 2013, 12:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Brian-M View Post
I don't think it's woo, more a case of warm and fuzzy sentiment devoid of careful consideration.
The phrases about "balance with nature", "harmony with the infinite", and not being "a cancer upon the earth" definitely set off my woodar.
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Old 8th August 2013, 01:07 PM   #34
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Yeah.

You want to talk about a cancer on the earth, what about all those aerobic micro-organisms that started pumping out toxic, corrosive gases like oxygen? Screwed up a right good environment the anerobes had going, that did.

Then the darn multi-cellular organisms came and started eating the single-celled.

Plants. They pretty much took over every available surface, and still try to. Cancerous.

There's nothing more harmonious than a bare ball of rock, I say. Get rid of atmohphere, too. It's peaceful and serene, an airless rockball. Can't get much more harmonious than that...

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Old 9th August 2013, 10:32 AM   #35
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But remember:
You are a fluke of the Universe
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not, the Universe is laughing behind your back.....
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Old 9th August 2013, 02:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The Georgia Guidestones are what happens when a woo gets enough money to buy land and pay someone to carve his words in concrete.
Pretty sure it's Elberton grey granite.
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Old 9th August 2013, 02:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I know a particular individual who believes the guidestones are a holy writ of "they," and their intentions are clearly stated.

How this fits into how "they" are going to accomplish their goals and why'd they put them on the guidestones in Ga. is a little hazy.
I think the most widely accepted conspiracy theory is that it's these folks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism
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Old 11th August 2013, 02:06 AM   #38
DevilsAdvocate
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I really can’t believe the comments in this thread. And certainly not the graffiti.

It is obvious that this is a Cold War era monument with advice to future generations after the apocalypse of a nuclear war (or possibly a world-wide environmental breakdown).

For those who lived in the late 70s and early 80s (and who were not too young and not too old) the perception of a possibly near elimination of humans by nuclear war between the US and USSR, or by environmental destruction of the Earth’s resources due to over population, were very, very real.

The Guidestones are obviously a neo-hippie message to the post-apocalyptic survivors.

In that context , I think the messages are quite good. IF humans are mostly destroyed by war or environmental destruction, THEN these guidelines are a good message to prevent that from happening again.

People interpreting the Guidestones as something else, such as an Illuminati message, or even as rules for conduct today (before the apocalypse) are ridiculous.

The graffiti and destruction to the monument is a travesty, and an embarrassment—and an example of why we should need such guidestones.
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Old 11th August 2013, 04:51 AM   #39
s4zando
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
The Guidestones are obviously a neo-hippie message to the post-apocalyptic survivors.

In that context , I think the messages are quite good. IF humans are mostly destroyed by war or environmental destruction, THEN these guidelines are a good message to prevent that from happening again.
IF there is an apocolypse, and IF these stones somehow survive it, I do not see how they have a place in determining the course of the future of the human race. That will be for those humans to decide, and it is impossible to predict the specific challenges they will face, if, IF, they are tasked with starting the human race anew in an environment completely impossible to imagine by today's standards.

Quote:
People interpreting the Guidestones as something else, such as an Illuminati message, or even as rules for conduct today (before the apocalypse) are ridiculous.
On that we have agreement, but for the fact that I am not granting the assumption of 'apocalypse.'

Quote:
The graffiti and destruction to the monument is a travesty, and an embarrassment—and an example of why we should need such guidestones.
Indeed on the first part, totally uncalled for vandalism. If it serves as any example whatsoever, it should be also noted that building giant, controversial, and ambiguous flat surfaces will attract vandals, just like any other surface. If they are as effective in guiding human behavior as you claim, why, then, did this happen in the first place?

ETA upon re-reading, I am activating my Poe-dar.
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Old 11th August 2013, 05:41 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by rcfieldz View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
Anyone got something to add to this? I havn't made a decision on what to think of it yet.
Somebody with time and money on their hands decided to build a cryptic structure that vaguely resembles stonehenge. One day someone else will own the property and tear it down and build public housing there.

Nothing mysterious about it.
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