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Tags bigfoot , bill munns , Patterson-Gimlin film

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Old 17th June 2013, 07:55 AM   #401
Aepervius
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I can't recall a successful debunking TV show...or a show that gave debunking much air time...

There's almost zero interest in debunking beliefs.

In fact, I think it's seen as being a poor sport or sour grapes, etc.

Mythbusters is about as close as it ever got, and that's pretty weak.
Mythubuster : You need to itnerrest them into an episode concept , they are after all a show.

maybe something about exploding bigfoot ?
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:57 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
I agree, but the PGF remains such a strong touchstone amongst Footers that it would be great if someone could finally just debunk their Rosetta Stone and knock that particular wind out of their sails once and for all and have some sort of qualified response to it that even the Sweaty Yetis of the world would have to concede would be so field levelling that the rest of it would just crumble under it's own tacky weight.
It was enough for me to see the "walking" patty , diaper butt and so forth. it does not look like any animal with fat or fur i know or imagine, except homo sapiens with a fake fur.

Nothing will be enough to EVER convince the bulk of bigfooter. Some can be convinced, but beyond that ? not worth the investment IMNSHO.
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Old 17th June 2013, 08:00 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
It's possible that Bigfoot may actually fade away over time. Technology is improving rapidly enough that I think there might soon come a time where there is no doubt whether the monkey exists or not.
I think the way it will fade over time, is the same way other woo of past centuries fadded over time. not because it was disproved/skeptically analyzed, but because the folk believing in that particular brand of woo died of old age, and no new generation replaced them.

I have started seeing that in some local woo group (Ghost) back in France, where there was no new blood, no young people interested in.

Give it 30 maybe 50 years and Bigfoot will die : anonymously in the mind of the last footer believer.
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Old 17th June 2013, 08:02 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Bob G has lots of different versions.
In less polite society - that is what people call lying.
Or if you are being generous : senility.
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Old 17th June 2013, 08:30 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Or if you are being generous : senility.
Still senile after all these years.
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Old 17th June 2013, 08:31 AM   #406
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Oh, you don't think they have planned for the Next generation of Bigfooters?

Quote:
Parents and kids expedition coming July 12th, 13th and 14th! This expedition will be held from our research property located in the Olympic National forest. Along with teaching your children about Bigfoot, ( By some of the top minds in BF research ), there will be hiking, camping, with camp fires, tracking class and a track casting class. We will also be teaching wilderness survival, facing predators and backpacking basics. Wouldn't be nice to get your kids away from the computer and TV for a weekend filled with fun and knowledge? For more information please send e-mail to redacted
http://www.olympicproject.com/id17.html
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Old 17th June 2013, 08:46 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Recently he firmly said that he has no recollection whatsoever of holding a camera. But then who is holding the camera filming Patterson?

One nice thing is that if Gimlin slips into dementia with advancing age... the believers will never notice.

When I spoke to Gimlin I asked about that specifically. This is what he said. IMHO, other than the footprint evidence (and the fact no bigfoot has ever been produced) the best proof of the hoax is the fact Heironimus has not been charged with libel for calling Patterson and Gimlin liars and hoaxers publicly many times over. (neither have I for that matter) Why hasnt Heironimus been sued OS?
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Last edited by River; 17th June 2013 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 17th June 2013, 09:10 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by River View Post
When I spoke to Gimlin I asked about that specifically. This is what he said.
Yes, he has no choice other than to say that he held the camera. But he can still stand by his other statement that he has no recollection of those events. This allows him to bypass many questions related to the hoax.

When listening or watching his taped public presentations I found something interesting and fairly consistent. The audience adores his regular inability to recall certain aspects of the encounter and before/after. "You know I just can't remember that..." is received warmly and indicates genuine honesty. This man is not a lying hoaxer. Those scums have a quick answer for everything.

The PGF Believers have built Gimlin a castle and throne with all sorts of trapdoors and hidden halls and chambers which allow Gimlin to duck and dodge anything he wants. They have done that for him.
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Old 17th June 2013, 09:37 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Recently he firmly said that he has no recollection whatsoever of holding a camera. But then who is holding the camera filming Patterson?

One nice thing is that if Gimlin slips into dementia with advancing age... the believers will never notice.
It would be divine justice if Gimlin started having delusions that Bigfoot was stalking him at the nursing home and some of the CNA and nurses are really Bigfeet who shave and disguise themselves as medical personnel.

No, actually, that would still just be sad, even if he's asked for it through a lifetime of deluding others
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Old 17th June 2013, 09:41 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Oh, you don't think they have planned for the Next generation of Bigfooters?


http://www.olympicproject.com/id17.html

Top minds in BF research? I wonder who, exactly, that would be? Sasfooty or Mulder maybe?
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Old 17th June 2013, 10:14 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
It's possible that Bigfoot may actually fade away over time. Technology is improving rapidly enough that I think there might soon come a time where there is no doubt whether the monkey exists or not.
Your idea about that future (bolded) poses an interesting dilemma. When can a society member say that "there is no doubt" and have it be accurate when there is somebody in the audience who will argue otherwise? Is it only when nobody in the entire population believes?

If a doubter exists then there is doubt. No matter how stupid or meaningless their argument is.

IOW, your future will never come.

Ironic that this may happen... the total number of Bigfoot believers increases over time in spite of no confirmatory evidence. Yes, even without confirmation we may have far more people believing in Bigfoot 50 years from now. Why? Well that is just because of the population increase. A certain tiny percentage of people will believe in crazy things. Always. But the total number of crazy people increases as the population increases.

There may be more mermaid believers living right now than there were back in the 17th Century.
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Old 17th June 2013, 04:00 PM   #412
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You're right there may always be people who believe in things like Bigfoot, but I think it could be scientifically accepted as a reality if the necessary proof ever comes along or maybe accepted as an impossibility if technology advances enough to a point where one can rule out the possibility of certain cryptids. It's only a matter of time in my opinion.

Last edited by OntarioSquatch; 17th June 2013 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 17th June 2013, 04:08 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
You're right there may always be people who believe in things like Bigfoot, but I think it could be scientifically accepted as a reality if the necessary proof ever comes along or maybe accepted as an impossibility if technology advances enough to a point where one can rule out the possibility of certain cryptids. It's only a matter of time in my opinion.
You'll have a long wait.
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Old 17th June 2013, 07:08 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
You're right there may always be people who believe in things like Bigfoot, but I think it could be scientifically accepted as a reality if the necessary proof ever comes along or maybe accepted as an impossibility if technology advances enough to a point where one can rule out the possibility of certain cryptids. It's only a matter of time in my opinion.
Proof is all we need...


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Old 18th June 2013, 01:02 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
or maybe accepted as an impossibility if technology advances enough to a point where one can rule out the possibility of certain cryptids.
Stop playing games. That day has come and gone some 200 years ago. There is no Bigfoot, end of discussion.
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Old 18th June 2013, 08:10 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Technology is improving rapidly enough that I think there might soon come a time where there is no doubt whether the monkey exists or not.
We've had all the necessary technology to confirm Bigfoot for centuries now. Spears, guns, traps and simply finding a carcass are all low-tech things that would have produced many specimens by now. But then came locomotives and gas-powered vehicles and these have produced no specimens by way of collision.

This whole Bigfoot thing is not about a creature in the woods. It's all about the mind of the Bigfoot believer. Why is there such a huge breakdown of rationality and reason in the belief of the absurd?
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Old 18th June 2013, 08:56 AM   #417
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While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:10 AM   #418
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So the non-existence of any creature, or any entity, is a matter of personal opinion.
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:31 AM   #419
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Unicorns? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.

Leprechauns? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.

Fire-breathing dragons? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.

Beings made of pure vulval smegma? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:40 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
Well when you put it that way it makes perfect sense.

But seriously. Part of the nature of the alleged species in question would have to be invisibility in order to explain the complete lack of biological evidence for the alleged species in question. Even then odds are that somewhere, sometime, some market hunter would've snapped off a killing shot before Footie could snap his fingers to enable his cloaking device.

C'mon already. Millions of examples of every large (and small) mammal inhabiting NA, but not one, not one bigfoot? C'mon.

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Old 18th June 2013, 09:59 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So the non-existence of any creature, or any entity, is a matter of personal opinion.
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

(Works for god should work for bigfoot)


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Old 18th June 2013, 10:20 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
This is because things like accidents from hunting . . .
There were 99 fatal hunting accidents in the US from 2002–2011. That's about 100 PEOPLE per decade, dying just by accident.

Hunters have famously claimed to encounter these giant bigfoots in the field, with stories going back many decades. Some have even claimed to have killed bigfoots, but no one has been able to put up when called to shut up.

Think too about the early days before wildlife conservation laws got their start in the early 1900s. People shot just about everything. They especially shot things that 1) raided their chicken coops, 2) ate "good" animals like deer that we wanted for ourselves, 3) were big, 4) were perceived as a threat to humans due to their size or ferocity, 5) were weird and would've been a source of instant riches from collectors and museums, 6) when stuffed in one's parlor would've been a subject of endless conversation and fascination, and 7) could've been displayed (live or dead) at fairs and carnivals all over the country for a hefty sum.


Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
. . . and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
Given the number of alleged encounters along roads, I can't see how a real-live population of real-live bigfoots hadn't already supplied us with several specimens prior to 1950.
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Old 18th June 2013, 11:33 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.


Horse ****. There is 0 percent possibility.
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Old 18th June 2013, 12:18 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
Well, then the same could be said for witches, warlocks, vampires, werewolves, fairies, leprechauns, trolls, goblins, ogres, dragons and mermaids. Do you believe these things exist? And if not, why? If you dismiss these beings as old fashioned and not compelling enough to believe in that makes you nothing more than a crypto-snob.

Personally, I have more respect for the wide eyed acceptance and gullible innocence of the true believers than someone who goes around pontificating like some kind of half-assed Perry Mason.
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Old 18th June 2013, 01:18 PM   #425
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Yeah we can't rightly say creatures like fairies, leprechauns and dragons are impossible to exist, but we can see that it's unlikely that they do. I wouldn't expect any Bigfoot atheists to see the logic behind this, but it's the most scientific approach in my opinion.
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Old 18th June 2013, 01:23 PM   #426
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No. there is nothing scientific in your approach.

For me to say that it is unlikely that Tyrannosaurus Rex still exists, is not a scientific approach at all.
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Old 18th June 2013, 01:35 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
For me to say that it is unlikely that Tyrannosaurus Rex still exists, is not a scientific approach at all.
Why not?
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Old 18th June 2013, 01:53 PM   #428
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The fact that you have to ask, says it all, about your position regarding Bigfoots..
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Old 18th June 2013, 02:09 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Yeah we can't rightly say creatures like fairies, leprechauns and dragons are impossible to exist, but we can see that it's unlikely that they do. I wouldn't expect any Bigfoot atheists to see the logic behind this, but it's the most scientific approach in my opinion.
Well of course you do. It smacks of BFF apologetics where every effort is made to bolster belief in this particular campfire story.

All story, no monkey.
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Old 18th June 2013, 02:12 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Yeah we can't rightly say creatures like fairies, leprechauns and dragons are impossible to exist, but we can see that it's unlikely that they do. I wouldn't expect any Bigfoot atheists to see the logic behind this, but it's the most scientific approach in my opinion.
Except that the existence said magical creatures would require them to violate the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. Magic is not science.
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Old 18th June 2013, 02:23 PM   #431
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Ah, well, but you know, maybe its behind that tree.
No?
OK, maybe behind that other one?
No?
See that other, to the left? Maybe its behind it!
No?
Fair enough, but see, there's another tree over there. You have not looked behing it.
No?

And at last, when you looked behind every single tree, the footer will tell you something like this:

OK, but you see, they can move. Maybe now its again hiding behind tree number one!
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Old 18th June 2013, 07:06 PM   #432
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Yeah, how come hunters can shoot other humans in the woods, but can't pull the trigger on sasquatch? How can sasquatch look too human if humans don't?
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Old 18th June 2013, 09:39 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
Well when you put it that way it makes perfect sense.

But seriously. ...
C'mon already. Millions of examples of every large (and small) mammal inhabiting NA, but not one, not one bigfoot? C'mon.
Also, millions of examples of every large mammal inhabiting NA - EXCEPT - primates.

So I maintain that it IS safe, ruling out the possibility that a primate 1-1/2 times larger than a human exists in NA. In the same manner in which you can rule out leprechaun, unicorns etc. There is absolutely no evidence presented anywhere that these things ever existed.
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Old 19th June 2013, 06:06 AM   #434
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But...but...lots of peoples say they've seen it, and surely there is no way they are lying or mistaken.
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Old 19th June 2013, 06:24 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
But...but...lots of peoples say they've seen it, and surely there is no way they are lying or mistaken.
How could they be lying when footie is in their backyards stealing Zagnuts, leaving books and training ravens?
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Old 19th June 2013, 12:32 PM   #436
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Note to self: don't ask Dr. Meldrum any skeptical questions

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Old 19th June 2013, 12:52 PM   #437
William Parcher
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Dear Professor Meldrum,

Roger Patterson was a lying con-man.

You have a nice day Jeff.




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Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
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Old 19th June 2013, 01:04 PM   #438
Correa Neto
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Well, its "about three miles" and not "3.5 mies". Its all about accuracy and you know, Gimlim is the salt of the Earth, man!

Look! Over there! Behind that tree! Its bigfoot!
Come here, I can sell you a book about it!
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Old 19th June 2013, 01:07 PM   #439
Resume
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Note to self: don't ask Dr. Meldrum any skeptical questions

http://i44.tinypic.com/jjsnk7.png
One of Bigfootery's best and brightest! Just ask them, or him.
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Old 19th June 2013, 01:32 PM   #440
Muldur
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Nothing will be enough to EVER convince the bulk of bigfooterSkeptics. Some can be convinced, but beyond that ? not worth the investment IMNSHO.
FIFY.

Bill is doing excellent work in reviewing the alleged suit and establishing why, in his professional opinion as a creature FX artist the claim of "Man in a Suit"
doesn't hold water, including practical experiments and documentation thereof.
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