|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
17th June 2013, 07:55 AM | #401 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
|
17th June 2013, 07:57 AM | #402 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
It was enough for me to see the "walking" patty , diaper butt and so forth. it does not look like any animal with fat or fur i know or imagine, except homo sapiens with a fake fur.
Nothing will be enough to EVER convince the bulk of bigfooter. Some can be convinced, but beyond that ? not worth the investment IMNSHO. |
17th June 2013, 08:00 AM | #403 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
I think the way it will fade over time, is the same way other woo of past centuries fadded over time. not because it was disproved/skeptically analyzed, but because the folk believing in that particular brand of woo died of old age, and no new generation replaced them.
I have started seeing that in some local woo group (Ghost) back in France, where there was no new blood, no young people interested in. Give it 30 maybe 50 years and Bigfoot will die : anonymously in the mind of the last footer believer. |
17th June 2013, 08:02 AM | #404 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
|
17th June 2013, 08:30 AM | #405 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
|
|
17th June 2013, 08:31 AM | #406 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
Oh, you don't think they have planned for the Next generation of Bigfooters?
Quote:
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
17th June 2013, 08:46 AM | #407 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
|
When I spoke to Gimlin I asked about that specifically. This is what he said. IMHO, other than the footprint evidence (and the fact no bigfoot has ever been produced) the best proof of the hoax is the fact Heironimus has not been charged with libel for calling Patterson and Gimlin liars and hoaxers publicly many times over. (neither have I for that matter) Why hasnt Heironimus been sued OS? |
__________________
"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY "I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY |
|
17th June 2013, 09:10 AM | #408 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Yes, he has no choice other than to say that he held the camera. But he can still stand by his other statement that he has no recollection of those events. This allows him to bypass many questions related to the hoax.
When listening or watching his taped public presentations I found something interesting and fairly consistent. The audience adores his regular inability to recall certain aspects of the encounter and before/after. "You know I just can't remember that..." is received warmly and indicates genuine honesty. This man is not a lying hoaxer. Those scums have a quick answer for everything. The PGF Believers have built Gimlin a castle and throne with all sorts of trapdoors and hidden halls and chambers which allow Gimlin to duck and dodge anything he wants. They have done that for him. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
17th June 2013, 09:37 AM | #409 |
This title intentionally left blank
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,126
|
It would be divine justice if Gimlin started having delusions that Bigfoot was stalking him at the nursing home and some of the CNA and nurses are really Bigfeet who shave and disguise themselves as medical personnel.
No, actually, that would still just be sad, even if he's asked for it through a lifetime of deluding others |
17th June 2013, 09:41 AM | #410 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,738
|
|
17th June 2013, 10:14 AM | #411 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Your idea about that future (bolded) poses an interesting dilemma. When can a society member say that "there is no doubt" and have it be accurate when there is somebody in the audience who will argue otherwise? Is it only when nobody in the entire population believes?
If a doubter exists then there is doubt. No matter how stupid or meaningless their argument is. IOW, your future will never come. Ironic that this may happen... the total number of Bigfoot believers increases over time in spite of no confirmatory evidence. Yes, even without confirmation we may have far more people believing in Bigfoot 50 years from now. Why? Well that is just because of the population increase. A certain tiny percentage of people will believe in crazy things. Always. But the total number of crazy people increases as the population increases. There may be more mermaid believers living right now than there were back in the 17th Century. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
17th June 2013, 04:00 PM | #412 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,783
|
You're right there may always be people who believe in things like Bigfoot, but I think it could be scientifically accepted as a reality if the necessary proof ever comes along or maybe accepted as an impossibility if technology advances enough to a point where one can rule out the possibility of certain cryptids. It's only a matter of time in my opinion.
|
17th June 2013, 04:08 PM | #413 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
|
|
17th June 2013, 07:08 PM | #414 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 19,277
|
|
__________________
Maybe later.... |
|
18th June 2013, 01:02 AM | #415 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 160
|
|
18th June 2013, 08:10 AM | #416 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
We've had all the necessary technology to confirm Bigfoot for centuries now. Spears, guns, traps and simply finding a carcass are all low-tech things that would have produced many specimens by now. But then came locomotives and gas-powered vehicles and these have produced no specimens by way of collision.
This whole Bigfoot thing is not about a creature in the woods. It's all about the mind of the Bigfoot believer. Why is there such a huge breakdown of rationality and reason in the belief of the absurd? |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
18th June 2013, 08:56 AM | #417 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,783
|
While the lack of a body makes a compelling case for the non-existence of Bigfoot, we still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
|
18th June 2013, 09:10 AM | #418 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
So the non-existence of any creature, or any entity, is a matter of personal opinion.
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
18th June 2013, 09:31 AM | #419 |
Sorcerer Supreme
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,905
|
Unicorns? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question.
Leprechauns? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question. Fire-breathing dragons? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question. Beings made of pure vulval smegma? We still can't safely rule out the possibility of their existence yet. This is because things like accidents from hunting and driving might not be a reliable indicator given the possible nature of the alleged species in question. |
__________________
"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
|
18th June 2013, 09:40 AM | #420 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
Well when you put it that way it makes perfect sense.
But seriously. Part of the nature of the alleged species in question would have to be invisibility in order to explain the complete lack of biological evidence for the alleged species in question. Even then odds are that somewhere, sometime, some market hunter would've snapped off a killing shot before Footie could snap his fingers to enable his cloaking device. C'mon already. Millions of examples of every large (and small) mammal inhabiting NA, but not one, not one bigfoot? C'mon. |
18th June 2013, 09:59 AM | #421 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
|
|
18th June 2013, 10:20 AM | #422 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 5,147
|
There were 99 fatal hunting accidents in the US from 2002–2011. That's about 100 PEOPLE per decade, dying just by accident.
Hunters have famously claimed to encounter these giant bigfoots in the field, with stories going back many decades. Some have even claimed to have killed bigfoots, but no one has been able to put up when called to shut up. Think too about the early days before wildlife conservation laws got their start in the early 1900s. People shot just about everything. They especially shot things that 1) raided their chicken coops, 2) ate "good" animals like deer that we wanted for ourselves, 3) were big, 4) were perceived as a threat to humans due to their size or ferocity, 5) were weird and would've been a source of instant riches from collectors and museums, 6) when stuffed in one's parlor would've been a subject of endless conversation and fascination, and 7) could've been displayed (live or dead) at fairs and carnivals all over the country for a hefty sum. Given the number of alleged encounters along roads, I can't see how a real-live population of real-live bigfoots hadn't already supplied us with several specimens prior to 1950. |
18th June 2013, 11:33 AM | #423 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,962
|
|
__________________
"I've seen more Bigfoot creatures than Mountain Lions and Wolves combined here in KY." ― ChrisBFRPKY "I've observed 1 creature eating bark from a pine tree and enjoying like it was cotton candy." ― ChrisBFRPKY |
|
18th June 2013, 12:18 PM | #424 |
Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 125
|
Well, then the same could be said for witches, warlocks, vampires, werewolves, fairies, leprechauns, trolls, goblins, ogres, dragons and mermaids. Do you believe these things exist? And if not, why? If you dismiss these beings as old fashioned and not compelling enough to believe in that makes you nothing more than a crypto-snob.
Personally, I have more respect for the wide eyed acceptance and gullible innocence of the true believers than someone who goes around pontificating like some kind of half-assed Perry Mason. |
18th June 2013, 01:18 PM | #425 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,783
|
Yeah we can't rightly say creatures like fairies, leprechauns and dragons are impossible to exist, but we can see that it's unlikely that they do. I wouldn't expect any Bigfoot atheists to see the logic behind this, but it's the most scientific approach in my opinion.
|
18th June 2013, 01:23 PM | #426 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
No. there is nothing scientific in your approach.
For me to say that it is unlikely that Tyrannosaurus Rex still exists, is not a scientific approach at all. |
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
18th June 2013, 01:35 PM | #427 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,783
|
|
18th June 2013, 01:53 PM | #428 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 19,277
|
The fact that you have to ask, says it all, about your position regarding Bigfoots..
|
__________________
Maybe later.... |
|
18th June 2013, 02:09 PM | #429 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
18th June 2013, 02:12 PM | #430 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,344
|
|
__________________
"The lie is different at every level." Richard C. Hoagland |
|
18th June 2013, 02:23 PM | #431 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,548
|
Ah, well, but you know, maybe its behind that tree.
No? OK, maybe behind that other one? No? See that other, to the left? Maybe its behind it! No? Fair enough, but see, there's another tree over there. You have not looked behing it. No? And at last, when you looked behind every single tree, the footer will tell you something like this: OK, but you see, they can move. Maybe now its again hiding behind tree number one! |
__________________
Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too… |
|
18th June 2013, 07:06 PM | #432 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
Yeah, how come hunters can shoot other humans in the woods, but can't pull the trigger on sasquatch? How can sasquatch look too human if humans don't?
|
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
18th June 2013, 09:39 PM | #433 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,594
|
Also, millions of examples of every large mammal inhabiting NA - EXCEPT - primates.
So I maintain that it IS safe, ruling out the possibility that a primate 1-1/2 times larger than a human exists in NA. In the same manner in which you can rule out leprechaun, unicorns etc. There is absolutely no evidence presented anywhere that these things ever existed. |
__________________
Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite |
|
19th June 2013, 06:06 AM | #434 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,738
|
But...but...lots of peoples say they've seen it, and surely there is no way they are lying or mistaken.
|
19th June 2013, 06:24 AM | #435 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
19th June 2013, 12:32 PM | #436 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,783
|
Note to self: don't ask Dr. Meldrum any skeptical questions
|
19th June 2013, 12:52 PM | #437 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Dear Professor Meldrum,
Roger Patterson was a lying con-man. You have a nice day Jeff. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
19th June 2013, 01:04 PM | #438 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,548
|
Well, its "about three miles" and not "3.5 mies". Its all about accuracy and you know, Gimlim is the salt of the Earth, man!
Look! Over there! Behind that tree! Its bigfoot! Come here, I can sell you a book about it! |
__________________
Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too… |
|
19th June 2013, 01:07 PM | #439 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
19th June 2013, 01:32 PM | #440 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,232
|
|
__________________
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist..." - Archbishop Dom Helder Camara, Brazil |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|