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Tags bigfoot , bill munns , Patterson-Gimlin film

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Old 19th June 2013, 01:36 PM   #441
Muldur
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Dear Professor Meldrum,

Roger Patterson was a lying con-man.

You have a nice day Jeff.




http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/826153c4.png

Nothing about that quote in any way invaidates either party's statement. Roger and Bill tracked or backtracked Patty's trail some 3-3.5 miles upstream before losing the trail in the bush.

Simple. Logical. Reconciles both statements.

In other words: debunk fail #googleplex +14.
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Old 19th June 2013, 01:45 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
Well, its "about three miles" and not "3.5 mies". Its all about accuracy and you know, Gimlim is the salt of the Earth, man!
Yes, 3.5 miles. They say that. Here, I'll let you source this one for yourself...


"When she got around the corner and into the real heavy stuff [timber and underbrush] she did take off--running, I mean--because, when we lost her tracks on pine needles after tracking her for about three and a-half miles, we took plaster casts of her tracks..."

Mulder, Gimlin says they didn't follow or track her for 3+ miles after seeing her. What happened is that Roger told some lies and Gimlin is not willing to go along with some of them.
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Old 19th June 2013, 02:26 PM   #443
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Were bigfoot as captive as Messrs. Meldrum and Munns' audience, this would be a vastly different subforum. But there ain't, and it ain't.
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Old 19th June 2013, 02:33 PM   #444
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I want bigfoot to exist.

Show me evidence of its existence, and I will accept it after a period of error analysis.

Simple as that, Muldur.
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Old 19th June 2013, 04:00 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by Muldur View Post
FIFY.

Bill is doing excellent work in reviewing the alleged suit and establishing why, in his professional opinion as a creature FX artist the claim of "Man in a Suit"
doesn't hold water, including practical experiments and documentation thereof.

When considering professional opinions of creature FX artists, I'll side with Rick Baker. He has considerably more experience and expertise in creature FX, specifically ape and Bigfoot costumes, and he's convinced Patty is a guy in a suit.
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Old 19th June 2013, 06:08 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Yes, 3.5 miles. They say that. Here, I'll let you source this one for yourself...


"When she got around the corner and into the real heavy stuff [timber and underbrush] she did take off--running, I mean--because, when we lost her tracks on pine needles after tracking her for about three and a-half miles, we took plaster casts of her tracks..."

Mulder, Gimlin says they didn't follow or track her for 3+ miles after seeing her. What happened is that Roger told some lies and Gimlin is not willing to go along with some of them.
Read the following article with a discerning eye. Gimlin screws up the script and implies that he saw the subject take off in a run. Sanderson wonders about this and Patterson bails out his "back-up man" by noting the footprint stride found that suggests a running subject. Sanderson, not wanting to introduce too much doubt into the proceedings, lets Gimlin's gaff off the hook.

http://www.bigfoot-lives.com/html/fi...oot__cali.html

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Old 19th June 2013, 06:18 PM   #447
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I've always thought that everyone here who is devoted to the subject wants Bigfoot to exist or at least did at some point. They just don't say it.
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Old 19th June 2013, 06:26 PM   #448
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Many of us have stated that we'd love for bigfoot to exist, and we'd all happily admit we were wrong if someone placed a monkey on a slab.
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Old 19th June 2013, 07:01 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
I've always thought that everyone here who is devoted to the subject wants Bigfoot to exist or at least did at some point. They just don't say it.
It would make for a (little) more interesting world if BF were a real animal. The problem is that reality is not bound by our wishes and dreams. So real evidence is needed to support the claim of a real creature. A 40+ year old low resolution film (made by a known con man) isn't evidence of anything beyond the credulity of some of our fellow human beings.
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Old 19th June 2013, 07:27 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by Muldur View Post
Nothing about that quote in any way invaidates either party's statement. Roger and Bill tracked or backtracked Patty's trail some 3-3.5 miles upstream before losing the trail in the bush.
I take it you believe Titmus' tracking story is in error ?
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Old 19th June 2013, 08:04 PM   #451
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I think it's great that you guys have an interest in Bigfoot, but aren't religiously believing the claims like myself and so many others have. It seems that other than bringing in a body, there isn't anything footers can do to convince non-footers of the existence of Bigfoot, and this makes sense to me now more than ever
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Old 19th June 2013, 09:04 PM   #452
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So, we have the 1:30 or 3:30 pm encounter sequence, which includes chasing down the horses that had run off, and reloading the camera with film.

We'll just go with 1:30pm and figure a half hour to get to the point where the camera is reloaded and they are off to track Patty.

Then they ride out 3-3.5 miles trying to track Patty until they lose her tracks.

Then they ride back.

Presumably they stay at the trackway for a little while checking out the prints when they return from tracking Patty, and planning their casting activities.

Then they ride close to two miles out to the truck to retrieve plaster for casting.

Then they ride back.

Then they have to do the casting, the stomp test, and film the trackway.

All this riding out and back in rough country is taking time. They specifically say that they did not ride on the roads to go get the plaster, but went "across the hill" because it was a little shorter than the two miles by road.

When you ride in rough conditions you go slow. When you are riding in rough conditions while trying to follow tracks, you go even slower. At the point where you lose the tracks, you hang around awhile, trying to find them again.

So how long is all of this taking?

And they still have to get that film off to DeAtley.

If Patty ran off at the end of the filming sequence, then she would be long gone by the time they caught the horses and reloaded the camera. They know they have to get this film developed, so why are they trying to track Patty? They know she ran, right? They know they want to cast her tracks, and that they don't have plaster with them, right?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 20th June 2013, 06:32 AM   #453
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You know that Meldrum will say the following:

That stuff doesn't matter, it's what's in the film itself that is compelling.
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Old 20th June 2013, 08:45 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You know that Meldrum will say the following:

That stuff doesn't matter, it's what's in the film itself that is compelling.
Meldrum and Munns compel me to roll my eyes. The PGF, when I first saw it years ago, compelled me to laugh out loud. Yes, it's all very compelling.
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Old 27th June 2013, 08:47 AM   #455
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I'm not allowed to post links yet, still don't have enough posts. I was wondering if anyone has brought up the YouTube video titled 21 degrees between Bigfoot and you?

I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts on it and if it has been discussed before, my apologies. I did try and search the forum, but wasn't able to find anything.

Thanks
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Old 27th June 2013, 09:37 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
I'm not allowed to post links yet, still don't have enough posts. I was wondering if anyone has brought up the YouTube video titled 21 degrees between Bigfoot and you?

I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts on it and if it has been discussed before, my apologies. I did try and search the forum, but wasn't able to find anything.

Thanks
NL
Welcome to the forums, Northern Lights. Here's the link you wanted to share:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRi1VLBxtZc
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Old 27th June 2013, 09:39 AM   #457
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Why didn't they show people walking on sand wearing a Bigfoot costume with oversized Bigfoot feet?

Oh, it was a PGF-is-real video. LOL!
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Old 27th June 2013, 09:42 AM   #458
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How many degrees does someone walking with Snorkeling Flippers roll at?
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Old 27th June 2013, 11:38 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts on it...
Meldrum had something to say after he saw a guy do the Patty Walk in a lab...

"Frankly I was somewhat surprised that our subject was so, umm, easily capable of replicating some aspects of the walk of the sasquatch ah depicted on the Patterson film."

Interestingly, for this experiment they used a guy in a Bigfoot costume with big feet. Now doesn't that make a lot more sense than just watching people walk around normally in their own normal shoes?
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Old 27th June 2013, 12:22 PM   #460
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Someone with Meldrum's qualifications should have been able to see it coming. There are some slight differences between the walk seen in the PGF and the regular walk of a human, but they seem to be very similar. If the gait was non-human like a chimp or gorilla's, I think us proponents would be able to make a better case when we claim a human can't replicate the walk. This is an aspect of the film that I think is an uphill debate for Bigfooters.
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Old 27th June 2013, 01:04 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Someone with Meldrum's qualifications should have been able to see it coming. There are some slight differences between the walk seen in the PGF and the regular walk of a human, but they seem to be very similar. If the gait was non-human like a chimp or gorilla's, I think us proponents would be able to make a better case when we claim a human can't replicate the walk. This is an aspect of the film that I think is an uphill debate for Bigfooters.
. . . And the JREF says hey OS
Take a walk on the right side
Hey footer
Take a walk in the right side
And the BFF goes
No-N-No N-No N-No N-No
No-N-No N-No N-No N-No . . .
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Old 27th June 2013, 02:22 PM   #462
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Munns has now analyzed the PGF camera shaking and wild movement and determined that these are honest jerks and not the jerks of a hoaxer person.

Con men jerk it different.
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Old 27th June 2013, 02:33 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Munns has now analyzed the PGF camera shaking and wild movement and determined that these are honest jerks and not the jerks of a hoaxer person.

Con men jerk it different.
Sometimes you kill me man!
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Old 27th June 2013, 03:07 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
Someone with Meldrum's qualifications should have been able to see it coming. There are some slight differences between the walk seen in the PGF and the regular walk of a human, but they seem to be very similar. If the gait was non-human like a chimp or gorilla's, I think us proponents would be able to make a better case when we claim a human can't replicate the walk. This is an aspect of the film that I think is an uphill debate for Bigfooters.
Comparing these measured, moderate posts to those of the wide-eyed bleever OS of a year ago is a satisfying endeavor, I must report.

At this rate, OntarioSquatch will be finishing Kitakaze's "Patty Smasher" doc by this time next year.
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Old 27th June 2013, 03:37 PM   #465
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haha I know it might seem that way, but I'm still a Bigfoot proponent and a believer in the PGF. Not a proud one though. Bigfootery is a mess.
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Old 27th June 2013, 03:58 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
haha I know it might seem that way, but I'm still a Bigfoot proponent and a believer in the PGF. Not a proud one though. Bigfootery is a mess.
Still, this site has a way of improving critical thinking and I see that's happened in your case as well. Hope I'm not being condescending, I mean it as a compliment.
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Old 27th June 2013, 05:07 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by OntarioSquatch View Post
haha I know it might seem that way, but I'm still a Bigfoot proponent and a believer in the PGF. Not a proud one though. Bigfootery is a mess.
I wonder why that mess is. You probably need to read The Reluctant Bigfooter by Ontario Q. Squatch
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Old 27th June 2013, 08:34 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Munns has now analyzed the PGF camera shaking and wild movement and determined that these are honest jerks and not the jerks of a hoaxer person.

Con men jerk it different.

Bill says that a hoaxer would have steady pans etc. What a load of bull. A hoaxer like Patterson would do it just like he did. The shaking thing has always been suss, IMHO. Not for the purpose of concealing anything, but for cinema verite effect. Patterson was no dummy when it came to shooting with a camera. He was no pro, but, he knew what he was doing. He's supposedly got this opportunity of the century... He would know just how little film he had left on the reel. Yet he burns precious seconds while he's running around? This is his big moment as a "documentary" maker and he goes all shaky cam with limited time and potentially dynamite shots left uncaptured?
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Old 27th June 2013, 10:09 PM   #469
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How could you have steady shots following an actor in that terrain with a handheld camera?

Steadicam is a ways away on the timeline.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 27th June 2013, 11:54 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
How could you have steady shots following an actor in that terrain with a handheld camera?

Steadicam is a ways away on the timeline.

By staying put when you have the camera rolling. If you want/need to get into a better, or closer position, don't keep rolling while you're running. It's not like Patty was in a big hurry to go anywhere. If Patty does a dash, take a knee where you are and resume shooting. The camera had a pistol grip with a stop/start trigger. He knew how to use it. IIRC, isn't there at least one point in the sequence where he does just that, apparently?... if there aren't edit cuts in it? He seems to be together enough at one point to know to pause... but while flailing about like an idiot? Roll on! The shaky cam does add a certain dramatic touch to the scene. Deliberate, I suspect. Maybe he was just excited and forgot to pause, but I dunno. Like everything about this film and it's story, it's full of contradictions.

ETA- sorry, LTC. I missed what you were getting at.
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Old 28th June 2013, 12:00 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by captain koolaid View Post
The camera had a pistol grip with a stop/start trigger. He knew how to use it. IIRC, isn't there at least one point in the sequence where he does just that, apparently?... if there aren't edit cuts in it? He seems to be together enough at one point to know to pause... but while flailing about like an idiot?
According to Munns, all of the discontinuities/stops in the film are because of Roger either "accidentally" hitting the trigger, or because he was so intent on recording all he could of this once in a lifetime bigfoot encounter, he did it to preserve film, or something.


Quote:
Like eveything about this film, it's full of contradictions.
It's a wash! Bigfoot is probably real then
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Old 28th June 2013, 05:17 AM   #472
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
How many degrees does someone walking with Snorkeling Flippers roll at?
Fair point, but do you think Patty appears to be wearing flippers? Personally, I don't think so because the foot looks proportional to the rest of the body. In looking through people wearing flippers, the entire length of the foot is dis-proportionally long.
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Old 28th June 2013, 05:52 AM   #473
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I wonder what the guy in the Stanford Gait test in the Bigfoot suit's leg angle was.

What show was that on? I'll go find it if someone remembers the show.
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Old 28th June 2013, 06:30 AM   #474
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Over how many frames does Patty use an exaggerated leg angle? Do we know how the camera angle might affect our estimates of the leg angle? If Patty's footprints are 14–15" long and she's only about 6' tall then yes, those are some outsized tootsies.
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Old 28th June 2013, 06:37 AM   #475
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I seem to recall the guy in that test was going more towards the compliance gate than the shin rise, so it will be interesting to see the results.
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Old 28th June 2013, 06:37 AM   #476
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I wonder what the guy in the Stanford Gait test in the Bigfoot suit's leg angle was.

What show was that on? I'll go find it if someone remembers the show.
Here is the thread we had for it but I don't know if there is a working video clip.
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Old 28th June 2013, 06:43 AM   #477
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
I seem to recall the guy in that test was going more towards the compliance gate than the shin rise, so it will be interesting to see the results.

We could just skip all that and have you say Patty is a Bigfoot then we can say no she isn't. We haven't done that before. It will be interesting to see the results of that interaction.
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Old 28th June 2013, 07:04 AM   #478
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Best Evidence- Bigfoot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MPjbn55AXM

Early in this clip there is only an obscured view of the leg
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Old 28th June 2013, 07:37 AM   #479
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We could just skip all that and have you say Patty is a Bigfoot then we can say no she isn't. We haven't done that before. It will be interesting to see the results of that interaction.
That's not a debate. That's just two cases of Invincible Ignorance. Both sides need to be open to the others views.
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Old 28th June 2013, 07:45 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
That's not a debate. That's just two cases of Invincible Ignorance. Both sides need to be open to the others views.
No, one side is correct and the other is incorrect.

Unless you have the monkey.

You don't, do you?
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