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Old 6th July 2018, 09:11 AM   #841
theprestige
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Mildly so. I've heard sweeping generalizations like "men are trash," and "Muslims are dangerous" fairly regularly.
I've never heard sweeping generalizations like that, at all the places I hang out fairly regularly. Where are you hanging out, that this is a fairly regular occurrence for you?
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:12 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You've never once heard men engaged in slut-shaming? Must be nice.
I said I have never encountered anything on the linked list. If you want to change the question by all means go ahead, but please do not word it to imply that I am being dishonest.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:12 AM   #843
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Anger does not increase your ability to commit violence, or commit it well. In fact every single bit of data on the subject suggests otherwise.
Looking forward to the data, I suppose.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:13 AM   #844
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've never heard sweeping generalizations like that, at all the places I hang out fairly regularly. Where are you hanging out, that this is a fairly regular occurrence for you?
Facebook.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:14 AM   #845
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If we made a list of common incel memes, some of them would be relatively rare and some of them would be relatively commonplace. Sounds like a project for another thread, though.
Sounds like a project you should have embarked on before criticizing people's life experience for not encountering whatever-the-**** memes you're actually talking about.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:15 AM   #846
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sounds like a project you should have embarked on before criticizing people's life experience for not encountering whatever-the-**** memes you're actually talking about.
Oh boo hoo.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:17 AM   #847
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Don't recall saying that I've encountered angry celibate young men in my everyday adult life.

Wonder where he got that idea.
Probably he got it from you suggesting that anger helped you in such encounters.

Can you tell us more about this? Have you ever encountered an "angry celibate young man", outside of the Internet? Have you responded in anger to him? What form did your response take? How did it go?
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:22 AM   #848
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Facebook.
Anger helps you in your encounters with incels on Facebook? I think the mote in Ziggurat's eye is the very least of your life experience problems.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:23 AM   #849
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I've heard people called sluts but in my experience this fits almost entirely into two categories:

1) women insulting/gossiping each other (or friendly banter like in my anecdote below)
2) men saying someone is a slut (but not in a necessarily negative tone)

I wouldn't categorize either as "shaming"

In my research group (when I was in grad school) the girls(3-4 of them) would all affectionately call each other sluts. In front of our supervisor, even (who was female). They might have even called her a slut but I can't remember because it seemed so normal and acceptable for them behave like that.

The other places I've seen it has been MGTOW-types in in some unmoderated comment sections (you can tell from their avatar) or in satire via Dick Masterson at http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/

edit: link probably NSFW

Last edited by pharphis; 6th July 2018 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:24 AM   #850
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably he got it from you suggesting that anger helped you in such encounters.
I don't recall mentioning specific encounters.

I did (and do) suggest that anger is an appropriate response when people say awful, dehumanizing things, whether you are dealing with them in person or via technology.
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:25 AM   #851
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Anger helps you in your encounters with incels on Facebook? I think the mote in Ziggurat's eye is the very least of your life experience problems.
I didn't mention incels on Facebook.

Read better.
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Old 8th July 2018, 05:51 PM   #852
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Strictly speaking, the "disdain" for a woman who can't find a partner is part of the culture to the point that we've essentially normalized it and don't see it as an issue. Otherwise why would one of the first questions to a working woman usually be "So when are you going to have kids?", implying that a woman's only worth is in her ability to perpetuate the species... I would be willing to bet every single woman I work with who is not in a committed relationship gets asked about it at least once a year
Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
This doesn't surprise me
It's obviously nowhere near "disdain", but even if it were, it would be a type of disdain that men are far more "subjected to" than women. Only once a year would be such a massive reduction that it's actually funny that anyone would have ever thought it sounded like a lot.

Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
There are lots of lovely dudes out there who are just not very good at talking to girls they like... There are women out there that like aggressive guys but for goodness sake there are also women out there who like actual nice guys. Itís absolutely anti-reality to assert that all the nice guys lose all the women to all the ********.
With the word "all" in there twice, yes, but it does lean disproportionately in that general direction. It's practically inevitable in an environment where the predominant message for men is not to even try because that's such a horrible thing to do to someone. The only ones who would be held back by that message are the ones who listen and respect, while the ones who don't listen or respect are bound to be the ones who just charge right ahead anyway. It's exactly the cultural theme you'd set up if your goal were to deliberately filter out men with a sense of decency and maximize women's interactions with men who ignore such standards.
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Old 8th July 2018, 06:04 PM   #853
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This looks relevant, from BBC
A Get The L Out spokeswoman said: "We protested to protect our rights and on behalf of all the lesbians intimidated, threatened and silenced by the GBT community everywhere.
"The GBT community today, by supporting the rights of males who "identify as lesbians" (also called "transwomen") over the rights of lesbians to choose their sexual partners (on the basis of their sex, not how they "identify") is in fact enforcing heterosexuality on lesbians.
"This is a misogynistic and anti-lesbian manifestation of the rape culture we live in."
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Old 8th July 2018, 07:46 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
With the word "all" in there twice, yes, but it does lean disproportionately in that general direction. It's practically inevitable in an environment where the predominant message for men is not to even try because that's such a horrible thing to do to someone.
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Old 8th July 2018, 07:47 PM   #855
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Facebook.
Bwahahahahaha!

Your friends suck. Get better friends.
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Old 9th July 2018, 01:46 PM   #856
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Get better friends.
It may come as a surprise to you that it is possible to interact with people who aren't actually your friends on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/help/1210322209008185/

ETA: By way of analogy, it is quite possible to interact with "gender critical" radical feminists on an internet message board even if you don't happen to know any IRL.
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Old 9th July 2018, 01:53 PM   #857
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
It may come as a surprise to you that it is possible to interact with people who aren't actually your friends on Facebook.
So join better groups then. I don't actually care, makes no difference to me, but you're still choosing to encounter this sort of toxicity when you don't have to.

And I'm still not sure why you think your experiences provide any rational expectation for what my experiences should be like.
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Old 9th July 2018, 02:47 PM   #858
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's practically inevitable in an environment where the predominant message for men is not to even try because that's such a horrible thing to do to someone. The only ones who would be held back by that message are the ones who listen and respect, while the ones who don't listen or respect are bound to be the ones who just charge right ahead anyway. It's exactly the cultural theme you'd set up if your goal were to deliberately filter out men with a sense of decency and maximize women's interactions with men who ignore such standards.
All of the women I personally know who had sweet guys after them, and also had the type of dateless guys after them who didn't know how to read 'quit it,' are still single twenty years later. You could say those sweet guys weren't good enough for them, but neither was anyone else. They were just never interested. And every time I've had a pushy or disrespectful guy after me it was similarly not just a turn-off but a red flag. So part of the problem for me is a complete lack of experience of/with women who fall for guys who 'ignore such standards'. I know they're out there but don't know anything about them.

My circles are generally women who aren't very pretty who get: a) no attention at all, b) attention from guys who act like they ought to be grateful for any attention, c) attention from guys who are in really unfortunate situations and need a lot of support. They have a lot of sympathy for category c and occasionally will try to date them but usually those relationships end when the two of them don't have enough supporting energy to go around.

My friends who are couples are all just both moderately frumpy and both nice. Oh wait, I do know one hot guy, he is nice and has a moderately cute girlfriend. I also know one aggressive guy with money who wants to settle down but says he can't yet cause he only meets/attracts women who just want a little fun. I'm gonna guess that's cause he's aggressive.
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