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4th February 2017, 10:25 AM | #601 |
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4th February 2017, 11:19 AM | #602 |
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4th February 2017, 11:20 AM | #603 |
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4th February 2017, 11:27 AM | #604 |
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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4th February 2017, 11:36 AM | #605 |
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4th February 2017, 11:49 AM | #606 |
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Why should we tolerate Nazis?
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4th February 2017, 11:57 AM | #607 |
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Meanwhile, Dan Adamini, a County-level GOP official in Michigan, said that the best way to deal with campus protestors is to have another Kent State.
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Of course, he walked it back later.
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"Tin soldiers and GOP coming." |
4th February 2017, 11:58 AM | #608 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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4th February 2017, 12:30 PM | #609 |
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4th February 2017, 12:37 PM | #610 |
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As I said, I'm willing to accept that a person can honestly believe they meant no malice. That doesn't change the fact that the language subtly undermines the legitimacy of the person themselves rather than condemning a behavior.
Besides, overstaying a visa is how most end up being determined to be unlawfully present. That's a civil offense, not a criminal one. Deportation proceedings are a civil procedure and removal from the country is a civil penalty. It's an issue of the proportionality of the response. A permanent restriction on ever becoming a citizen because of a procedural infraction seems quite out of balance to me. This is not to say 'free citizenship for all' but just make the punishment fit the offense. Many proposals exist that seem like a workable starting point. Get on papers, pay a fine, stay out of trouble for x period of time, etc. These are compensatory penalties, but what is proposed by permanently being barred from citizenship is punitive. It doesn't sound too dissimilar from a lot of structured legal deals where one pays a fine, performs community service, meets with a court corrections officer for check-ins, stays employed, etc. in order to avoid prison or other punishments. |
4th February 2017, 12:43 PM | #611 |
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...oh give me a break. Even Boy George made Milo look like a fool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm8QCUpFPrg |
4th February 2017, 12:45 PM | #612 |
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4th February 2017, 12:50 PM | #613 |
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4th February 2017, 12:54 PM | #614 |
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4th February 2017, 12:57 PM | #615 |
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Not sure. Has anyone showed up to speak in support of Obama deporting people?
If someone showed up to speak in support of Obama deporting people and a violent rampage ensued, would that mean it's ok? I'm trying to understand how this argument doesn't end up eating itself. |
4th February 2017, 01:02 PM | #616 |
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I see an assertion of my motives.
I've given a thorough explanation of why I feel 'illegal' is a dangerous adjective to apply to a person rather than a behavior. I have even declared that I accept it can merely be repeating a common phrasing without understanding the implications. You can disagree with my conclusion and I would accept that. If all you have is a motive-impugning retort, then so be it. |
4th February 2017, 01:14 PM | #617 |
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4th February 2017, 01:46 PM | #618 |
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I haven't read this entire thread. I browsed a few pages. It seems to me that an important point is being overlooked: All evidence is that the violence, vandalism, and rioting were caused by anarchist antifa. Not the leftists at the protest.
Note the black clothing. The covered faces. The anti-government banners. Pay attention to coverage of most riots and you'll start to notice that most the folks vandalizing and instigating violence dress in black clothing, cover their faces, and carry anti-government signs. These are anarchists. They commonly appropriate legit protests for their own cause. I'm not sure how we've been through so many protests that featured anarchist-caused vandalism, violence, and rioting without this being common knowledge. I'm not sure how the media hasn't caught on. Anyway. Not leftists. Not right wingers trying to discredit protesters. Anarchists. Antifa anarchists specifically in this case. But anarchists. |
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4th February 2017, 01:54 PM | #619 |
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Can you provide this evidence?
I'm especially interested in evidence that antifa isn't leftist. After all, anyone bothering to do even the most basic reading on anti-fascism (such as its wikipedia article) will quickly find that it is distinctly leftist. One could even say that anti-fascism is a distinguishing feature of the broad left (anarchists, communists, socialists & social-democrats) as opposed to the broad right which does not feature it (liberals, conservatives, nationalists). |
4th February 2017, 02:35 PM | #620 |
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The essence the argument is that there is a double standard when it comes to these kinds of protests. Here's a report of Nancy Pelosi defending Obama's deportation raids:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/28...on-enforcement Where was the destructive rampage? Here's a report of Press Secretary Josh Earnest defending the raids: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0Y429P The article includes a photo of peaceful protesters. If there was a violent rampage, Reuters didn't report it. Here's DHS Secretary Johnson, defending the raids: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0b958f65c5935 There's a video of peaceful protesters, but no violent rampage. If a violent rampage ensued, it would not be OK, but it would at least suggest that people are acting from a consistent, principled position. What would be OK is if the people who responded peacefully to Barack Obama's immigration policy, applied that same principle to Trump's immigration policy. |
4th February 2017, 02:45 PM | #621 |
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OMGturt1es, I feel you. Conservatives have the same problem with the neo-nazis. They insist that they're on your your side. The other side holds them against you as if they're representative... It sucks. It'd be nice if the two extremes just fought it out amongst themselves and left the rest of us out of it.
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4th February 2017, 02:53 PM | #622 |
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I really don't think Trump is in any place to complain about a lack of tolerance.
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4th February 2017, 03:04 PM | #623 |
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4th February 2017, 03:45 PM | #624 |
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Both spellings are correct:
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[/sidetrack] |
4th February 2017, 05:21 PM | #625 |
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4th February 2017, 05:50 PM | #626 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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4th February 2017, 06:41 PM | #627 |
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I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim. Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy |
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5th February 2017, 01:54 AM | #628 |
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5th February 2017, 09:55 AM | #629 |
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Did the police manage to arrest any of the Berkeley protesters dressed in ninja outfits?
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5th February 2017, 01:53 PM | #630 |
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I'm not talking about violent and peaceful demonstrators. I'm talking about people who responded peacefully to Obama's deportation raids a year ago, responded peacefully to several different supporters of Obama's policy who spoke in defense of that policy, and who responded violently to Milo.
I'm not making a hasty generalization. I'm observing a pattern of response over the past year. Where were the violent rampages when Obama conducted deportation raids last year? Where were the violent rampages when people in his administration spoke in favor of those raids? Why did the violent rampagers save their rampage for this event? I'll tell you why: Because they are partisan. They demonstrably believe it is not the policy, but the party, that merits an outpouring of destruction and intimidation. |
5th February 2017, 02:06 PM | #631 |
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5th February 2017, 05:18 PM | #632 |
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Post-left anarchy is what a lot of us are recognizing here. Fascism is a natural target, but that doesn't equate to being on the left.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy |
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5th February 2017, 06:31 PM | #633 |
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Antifa is only partially anarchist. Anarchism is only partially post-left. And post-left anarchism isn't so much post-left for not being leftist in a general sense (ie anti-capitalist etc) but for being opposed to common organizational strategies and ideologies in the traditional left.
To say "it was antifa rather than leftists" is confused, and shows quite some ignorance regarding what antifa is or does. |
5th February 2017, 06:47 PM | #634 |
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5th February 2017, 07:07 PM | #635 |
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The problem is that 'antifa' isn't well defined. Antifa, definition #1, from Urban Dictionary:
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=antifa http://www.thefreedictionary.com/antifascist |
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5th February 2017, 07:14 PM | #636 |
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See that one of the anarchists was in fact an employee of the school, and therefore a state employee.
So anarchy, much anarchy. Loser. |
5th February 2017, 07:51 PM | #637 |
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Urban Dictionary...
A link to the wikipedia article on anti-fascism has already been provided, one wonders why you would ignore it in favour of Urban Dictionary. Plenty more information is only a google search away, such as a short history on the forerunner of current Western antifa. And yes, militant anti-fascism does not absolutely guarantee every individual being on the left, but it makes it overwhelmingly likely. There is, after all, no liberal antifa, no conservative antifa, or other moderate-right antifa. |
5th February 2017, 08:34 PM | #638 |
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Uh...yeah. Urban Dictionary. Thought it was appallingly obvious that it was not meant entirely seriously. My bad.
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ETA: your link is about Brits from 15 or so years ago. The OP here is about the current Oakland crew, who basically bust **** up at any given opportunity. 'Tis a little different. |
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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5th February 2017, 09:05 PM | #639 | ||||||
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If you bothered to look into it you'll find it is indeed overwhelmingly left-wing.
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as well as other left-wing & antifa teams in Europe
Though apparently soccer isn't such a thing in the US, so do you have like left-wing/antifa and right-wing/fascist baseball teams or something?
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5th February 2017, 09:34 PM | #640 |
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According to your cite. There are others. None are specific to the West Coast U.S.A. hommies at question in the OP. The century-old European history does not really apply to the current American practice of anarchism and use of the Bloc.
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"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
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