ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags drug scandals , Michael Gove , Rory Steward , Tories , uk politics

Reply
Old 8th June 2019, 03:39 AM   #1
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Leading UK politician 'took cocaine'

Conservative Party cabinet minister Michael Gove claims he is truly sorry he took cocaine twenty years ago.

Quote:
Tory leadership candidate Michael Gove has said he "deeply regrets" taking cocaine more than 20 years ago.

He told the Daily Mail that he had taken the drug at several "social events" while working as a journalist.

The environment secretary said he believed the "mistake" should not be held against him in his bid to become prime minister.

Members of the party are due to vote for a new party leader after Theresa May stepped down from the role.

Mr Gove, who served as justice secretary from 2015-16, is one of 11 Tory MPs who have said they intend to stand in the contest to replace her, with the winner expected to be announced in late July.

International Development Secretary Rory Stewart, who is one of those standing against him, has already apologised for smoking opium - a class A drug in the UK - at a wedding in Iran 15 years ago.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48564722


How degenerate is that? Here we have highly educated individuals whom we presume are au fait with current affairs, so ought to know better.

Gove must surely know that it is middle class people like him who fuel the burgeoning South American cocaine trade with the resulting drug cartel wars, deadly gang rivalry, county line drug gangs in the UK in which youths barely more than children trade the stuff on behalf of the serious organised crime barons who rarely get caught, end up in jail or dead, knife crime and fierce post-code wars.

Has Gove or Stewart (with his opium smoking) never given a thought to their grossly irresponsible behaviour, never mind actually boasting about it as though it is a badge of honour.

Shocking!!!
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 03:41 AM   #2
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,237
As has been pointed out elsewhere by someone smarter than me, a poor person would be ruined by this kind of admission.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 03:49 AM   #3
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Oh dear. Dominic Raab is drug addled, too.

Quote:
Mr Gove's fellow Tory leadership hopeful Dominic Raab, who has previously admitted smoking cannabis, told Today: "I think Michael has set out that he made a mistake.

"It was a long time ago, people will judge it as it is but I do believe in a second chance society."
No wonder the country is in a mess.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:00 AM   #4
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,250
It's not as if they didn't know it was illegal. In a country in which it wasn't illegal I'd be "and?' but in this country no I don't want my leaders to be people that do something illegal that usually results in jail time.

Plus Gove is trying to say this was 20 years ago when he was a youngster, he is 51, if he didn't know at the age of 30 that cocaine was illegal then he certainly is not suitable for high office.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:08 AM   #5
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,250
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As has been pointed out elsewhere by someone smarter than me, a poor person would be ruined by this kind of admission.
As has ever been the case.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:13 AM   #6
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,415
The fact he took cocaine wouldn't stop me voting for him. On the other hand the fact that he is an obnoxious twat who attempted to take education back to the 1950s, lined his pocket with dodgy expenses claims, led the country down a doomed path to brexit while ratting on his mate to further his ambitious would.

Fortunately for him I don't have a vote, mind the others are no better. Arses the lot of them.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:13 AM   #7
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,442
The idea that cocaine use is "middle class" is rather quaint. Gove, of course, was not a politician 20 years ago, but a journalist.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 8th June 2019 at 04:15 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:19 AM   #8
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,250
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
The fact he took cocaine wouldn't stop me voting for him. On the other hand the fact that he is an obnoxious twat who attempted to take education back to the 1950s, lined his pocket with dodgy expenses claims, led the country down a doomed path to brexit while ratting on his mate to further his ambitious would.



Fortunately for him I don't have a vote, mind the others are no better. Arses the lot of them.
Dont be silly, arses have their uses.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 04:56 AM   #9
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 42,798
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Has Gove or Stewart (with his opium smoking) never given a thought to their grossly irresponsible behaviour, never mind actually boasting about it as though it is a badge of honour.
In the case of Stewart, it was a one-off at a social occasion in Iran, where it was, if not legal, socially acceptable.

And they're not boasting about it, but trying to get any skeletons out of the cupboard, since the effect of them being found by the press later is generally thought to be more damaging than controlling how they are made public. Whether their apparent remorse is genuine is another matter.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:09 AM   #10
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,768
In another forum, a member involved in the media has said "It’s been rumoured around journalist circles for years, to the point of it being taken as ‘well known’ that Gove used to be a coke head. Also anyone connected to the ‘chipping norton set’."
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:29 AM   #11
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
The idea that cocaine use is "middle class" is rather quaint. Gove, of course, was not a politician 20 years ago, but a journalist.
All the more reason for his knowing how detrimental the cocaine trade is.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:31 AM   #12
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,442
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
All the more reason for his knowing how detrimental the cocaine trade is.
It's only "detrimental" because it's illegal. Legal cocaine trade/use is obviously not "detrimental."
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:33 AM   #13
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
The fact he took cocaine wouldn't stop me voting for him. On the other hand the fact that he is an obnoxious twat who attempted to take education back to the 1950s, lined his pocket with dodgy expenses claims, led the country down a doomed path to brexit while ratting on his mate to further his ambitious would.

Fortunately for him I don't have a vote, mind the others are no better. Arses the lot of them.
I've nothing against the drug-taking per se it's more the implicit support of a dreadful industry in which tens of thousands die every year or have their lives ruined. When you buy cocaine from a drug dealer you are keeping that corrupt trade going.

It reminds me of people who do not realise the link between personal and political. For example, sympathising with the plight of cooped up battery hens yet not buying free-range eggs. People pollute the atmosphere with plastic waste and fuel emissions yet fail to make the link with environmental damage.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:39 AM   #14
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It's only "detrimental" because it's illegal. Legal cocaine trade/use is obviously not "detrimental."
Can I recommend a few books for you on the effects of the global cocaine industry? It is a commodity - albeit illegal - like any other - such as copper or grain - and nets the dealers in the trade vast sums of money. Anyone standing in their way is subjected to appalling violence.

It is detrimental not because you might get fined if caught but because of the serious organised crime. Surely you must have seen the movies of heavily tattooed individuals blasting the brains other creatively inked gringos.

The FBI spends a fortune trying to smash these rings.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 05:41 AM   #15
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
In the case of Stewart, it was a one-off at a social occasion in Iran, where it was, if not legal, socially acceptable.

And they're not boasting about it, but trying to get any skeletons out of the cupboard, since the effect of them being found by the press later is generally thought to be more damaging than controlling how they are made public. Whether their apparent remorse is genuine is another matter.
That's what they all say, isn't it? 'It was only once and it was at a party'.

Pan to Bill Clinton, 'I didn't inhale'.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 06:12 AM   #16
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 42,798
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Can I recommend a few books for you on the effects of the global cocaine industry? It is a commodity - albeit illegal - like any other - such as copper or grain - and nets the dealers in the trade vast sums of money. Anyone standing in their way is subjected to appalling violence.

It is detrimental not because you might get fined if caught but because of the serious organised crime. Surely you must have seen the movies of heavily tattooed individuals blasting the brains other creatively inked gringos.

The FBI spends a fortune trying to smash these rings.
All those consequences are because it's illegal, unless you're suggesting the same things happen in the copper and grain industries?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 06:22 AM   #17
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,747
What's the sentencing range for possession?

Are there any other crimes with similar ranges of sentences for which "I did it 20 years ago but now I'm really sorry" is something that passes muster.


******* hypocrite
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 06:23 AM   #18
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,747
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
All those consequences are because it's illegal, unless you're suggesting the same things happen in the copper and grain industries?
Yeah, but I'll bet you a pound to a penny that Gove isn't about to start campaigning for any sort of legalisation any time soon.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 07:12 AM   #19
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,800
And if chancellor George Osborne wasn't high on something here I'm a monkey's uncle

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 07:15 AM   #20
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,768
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
And if chancellor George Osborne wasn't high on something here I'm a monkey's uncle

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
See my quote above about "Chipping Norton " set
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 07:24 AM   #21
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,611
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As has been pointed out elsewhere by someone smarter than me, a poor person would be ruined by this kind of admission.
That they took cocaine 20 years ago? In what context would such a confession from a "poor person" even matter?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 08:12 AM   #22
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,442
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Can I recommend a few books for you on the effects of the global cocaine industry?
Thanks, but I don't need your lectures. You also ignored the second sentence in my post. The legal trade in cocaine - because obviously there is one - is not "detrimental." The illegal trade is only "detrimental" because it serves the illegal side. Prohibition causes the problems, not the drugs.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 09:14 AM   #23
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,104
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Conservative Party cabinet minister Michael Gove claims he is truly sorry he took cocaine twenty years ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48564722


How degenerate is that? Here we have highly educated individuals whom we presume are au fait with current affairs, so ought to know better.

Gove must surely know that it is middle class people like him who fuel the burgeoning South American cocaine trade with the resulting drug cartel wars, deadly gang rivalry, county line drug gangs in the UK in which youths barely more than children trade the stuff on behalf of the serious organised crime barons who rarely get caught, end up in jail or dead, knife crime and fierce post-code wars.

Has Gove or Stewart (with his opium smoking) never given a thought to their grossly irresponsible behaviour, never mind actually boasting about it as though it is a badge of honour.

Shocking!!!
Honestly, twenty years ago? Show me someone who never did something stupid in twenty years and I'll show you a complete bore.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 09:24 AM   #24
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,800
Meanwhile, Obama cheerfully admitted to smoking pot and inhaling

I suspect Gove broke the news before someone else did, to get credit for 'fessing up.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 09:37 AM   #25
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,891
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Honestly, twenty years ago? Show me someone who never did something stupid in twenty years and I'll show you a complete bore.
"Grab them by the pussy!"
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 10:06 AM   #26
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,548
Europeans: Oh man, one of our politicians did cocaine.
Americans:

__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 10:33 AM   #27
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,415
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I've nothing against the drug-taking per se it's more the implicit support of a dreadful industry in which tens of thousands die every year or have their lives ruined. When you buy cocaine from a drug dealer you are keeping that corrupt trade going.

It reminds me of people who do not realise the link between personal and political. For example, sympathising with the plight of cooped up battery hens yet not buying free-range eggs. People pollute the atmosphere with plastic waste and fuel emissions yet fail to make the link with environmental damage.
Eat a chicken and you are complicit in a chicken dying. No way to eat chicken without a chicken dying.
Same is not true of asparagus, or cocaine. Nothing needs to die or suffer from crop growth. That people do is not the consumer's choice. It is the choice of Governments.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 10:34 AM   #28
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,797
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Meanwhile, Obama cheerfully admitted to smoking pot and inhaling
....
Obama made no secret of trying coke. He wrote it about long before he ran for office.
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/w...s.3272493.html
https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Fat...s%2C183&sr=1-1
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 11:39 AM   #29
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,104
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
"Grab them by the pussy!"
Ya. If that was the only one, I shouldn't bother. Drunken chatter.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 11:42 AM   #30
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,104
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Eat a chicken and you are complicit in a chicken dying. No way to eat chicken without a chicken dying.
Same is not true of asparagus, or cocaine. Nothing needs to die or suffer from crop growth. That people do is not the consumer's choice. It is the choice of Governments.
How do you eat an asparagus without an asparagus dying? Are you an animal chauvinist?

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:06 PM   #31
Seismosaurus
Philosopher
 
Seismosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,822
I couldn't care less about him taking drugs back in the day, and doubt many do. I wonder what the reaction would be if he'd come out and said "No, I'm not sorry. I tried it, didn't much care for it, so I stopped and got on with my life"?

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the leadership contest, is anybody being named as a likely winner?
__________________
Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal
She carries beauty in her soul
Seismosaurus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:16 PM   #32
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,768
Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I couldn't care less about him taking drugs back in the day, and doubt many do. I wonder what the reaction would be if he'd come out and said "No, I'm not sorry. I tried it, didn't much care for it, so I stopped and got on with my life"?

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the leadership contest, is anybody being named as a likely winner?
Who do you think?

most recognized Tory politician.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:36 PM   #33
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,250
Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I couldn't care less about him taking drugs back in the day, and doubt many do. I wonder what the reaction would be if he'd come out and said "No, I'm not sorry. I tried it, didn't much care for it, so I stopped and got on with my life"?

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the leadership contest, is anybody being named as a likely winner?
Apart from when he was justice minister he presided over locking people up who had made the same "mistake". One wonders what the reaction would be if he was prosecuted for his confessed class A drug possession and use..

The sentence for possession is, to use the website of the department he ran:
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing

Up to 7 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both



Might be a bit difficult for him to be tory leader and PM when enjoying his break at her majesty's pleasure...
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:46 PM   #34
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,531
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
All those consequences are because it's illegal, unless you're suggesting the same things happen in the copper and grain industries?
Alcohol in the US prohibition era is a prime example of criminality arising around something that's been made illegal.

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Thanks, but I don't need your lectures. You also ignored the second sentence in my post. The legal trade in cocaine - because obviously there is one - is not "detrimental." The illegal trade is only "detrimental" because it serves the illegal side. Prohibition causes the problems, not the drugs.
I agree.
If stuff is legal and being regulated then there's little room for the crims to get in there.

Also when US prohibition went away, look at the subsequent things that happened,
there was a big economical opportunity, everyone started selling alcohol again.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:49 PM   #35
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
All those consequences are because it's illegal, unless you're suggesting the same things happen in the copper and grain industries?
What came first? The illegality or the detrimental nature of cocaine addiction?
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:54 PM   #36
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,531
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What came first? The illegality or the detrimental nature of cocaine addiction?
False dichotoboloxicus, people can take cocaine without being addicts.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 12:54 PM   #37
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Oh dear. Andrea Leadsom has now 'come out' to say she, too, was a drug user. She smoked weed at Warwick University.

According to one poster here, this makes her 'not dull and boring'.

Hands up anyone in the Tory leadership race who hasn't been totally out of their box on drugs?
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 01:03 PM   #38
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,531
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. Andrea Leadsom has now 'come out' to say she, too, was a drug user. She smoked weed at Warwick University.

According to one poster here, this makes her 'not dull and boring'.

Hands up anyone in the Tory leadership race who hasn't been totally out of their box on drugs?
I don't think anyone said they were out of their box on drugs, that's you adding stuff, please don't do that.

I did say this was going to happen though.
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
big sigh..
snip
a competition for who can come across as the edgiest, to appeal to every demographic.

Last edited by p0lka; 8th June 2019 at 01:05 PM.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 01:39 PM   #39
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 15,776
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I don't think anyone said they were out of their box on drugs, that's you adding stuff, please don't do that.

I did say this was going to happen though.
Oh I see. Employees at MacDonalds get sacked if they fail the drug tests, you're barred from teaching, barred from the USA at any hint of drug-taking, yet Gove gets to be Education Secretary, crystal meth found at Sajid's old offices and he wants tougher sentences for drug possession (up to 7 years for cocaine) and you're claiming Gove didn't snort cocaine, Stewart didn't smoke heroin through a bong at a wedding, Raab didn't drink a TCH cannabis mixture and BoJo didn't snort cocaine because they wanted to get off their heads?

The law doesn't apply to any of these, I suppose?

Diane Abbott quaffs an M&S tin of Mojito (5% proof) on the overground and the Tories go berserk.

It's a mad mad world.
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2019, 02:37 PM   #40
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 3157'S 11557'E
Posts: 14,554
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I've nothing against the drug-taking per se it's more the implicit support of a dreadful industry in which tens of thousands die every year or have their lives ruined. When you buy cocaine from a drug dealer you are keeping that corrupt trade going.
Exactly the same argument can be made about marijuana.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.