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Old 12th May 2022, 09:29 PM   #2041
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
or transferring vast sums of wealth around the world rapidly and without authoritarian interference.
Money laundering, the word you are looking for is money laundering. Oh and pay for stuff you don't want others to know about like illegal drugs and child porn.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:57 AM   #2042
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Sure you can take your money, just not during "scheduled maintenance" that happened while Tether's peg went back up 2 cents to $1USD.
I was talking about crypto exchange taking the money and running .. as a way how crypto exchange can go bankrupt. I know perfectly well how users can lose money. I just don't understand how exchange can do it .. beside getting hacked of course.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:15 AM   #2043
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you ever get the time, go through the old bitcoin threads. These issues have been discussed many times. The short answer is the bitcoin is not useful as an everyday currency because of its price volatility and also because of a hard limit of only a few thousand transactions per block. The proof-of-work algorithm is also a big no no (since it is basically an electricity burning competition).

Bitcoin is basically useful only for hodling or transferring vast sums of wealth around the world rapidly and without authoritarian interference.
So it's just some form of circle jerk? Unless I can find someone that accepts it is worth something, it is useless . . . sorry . . . "not useful as an everyday currency". Got it.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:22 AM   #2044
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
So it's just some form of circle jerk?
Always has been. It's like a Pyramid Scheme but a circle.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:27 AM   #2045
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I was talking about crypto exchange taking the money and running .. as a way how crypto exchange can go bankrupt. I know perfectly well how users can lose money. I just don't understand how exchange can do it .. beside getting hacked of course.
If you read the Global News article I posted above, it will give you some understanding (at least with respect to algorithmic stablecoin).

For example:
Quote:
Ryan Clements, a professor at the University of Calgary who studies fintech, predicted eventualities like this in his 2021 paper titled, “Built to Fail: The Inherent Fragility of Algorithmic Stablecoins.”

He told Global News in an email this week that the algorithmic stablecoin’s premise is essentially a “confidence game” based on perceptions of supply and demand, rather than underlying assets with fundamental value like their centralized counterparts.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:32 AM   #2046
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It's the difference between a fiat currency and a "Because we say so" currency.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:58 AM   #2047
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Always has been. It's like a Pyramid Scheme but a circle.

I laughed when I saw a commercial for a credit card or debit card that offered the option to get your annual cash back bonus in Bitcoin. Spend your money on something real, get part of it back in pixie dust and unicorn farts.
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Old 13th May 2022, 07:04 AM   #2048
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Again because crypto currencies are trying to be or claiming to be:

- An actual functional day to day alternative currency for normal purchases.
- A secret underground "That coin from John Wick" currency.
- A get rich quick scheme.
- A quasi-legal money laundering method.
- Basically a purely symbolic handshake for people super into deep state economy conspiracy theories.

And it can't be all of those things at once.
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Old 13th May 2022, 08:03 AM   #2049
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Back in 2013/2014, there was a single season science fiction series called "Almost Human" (which I thought was pretty good). It was set in 2048 and numerous people were shown paying for things with Bitcoins, which were apparently carried around on USB drives. Wishful thinking.
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Old 13th May 2022, 08:17 AM   #2050
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Money laundering, the word you are looking for is money laundering. Oh and pay for stuff you don't want others to know about like illegal drugs and child porn.
I don't want anyone knowing anything about any of my transactions.
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Old 13th May 2022, 08:19 AM   #2051
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Know someone that 'lost' 6 figures in this luna fiasco. They luckily got in near the bottom so in actual investment low 5 figures, and they have spent a certain amount so probably broke even. But 5 days ago if it was taken out that was real money, and now.. gone. Many a convo about this possibility, unfortunately didn't help. I honestly blame the traditional financial systems for this. There is no safe return out there, forcing the choice between guaranteed loss with little risk or possible gain with extreme risk.
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Old 13th May 2022, 09:35 AM   #2052
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I was talking about crypto exchange taking the money and running .. as a way how crypto exchange can go bankrupt. I know perfectly well how users can lose money. I just don't understand how exchange can do it .. beside getting hacked of course.
When volatility happens, these exchanges develop convenient technical glitches, and retail investors get screwed while institutional money and insider trading gets a leg up.

They can basically do anything they want, since they are unregulated gambling sites. Just yesterday, at crypto.com "fortune favors the brave:"


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Old 13th May 2022, 09:47 AM   #2053
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Unless I can find someone that accepts it is worth something, it is useless . . .
Can you name an example of something that is valuable (you can get money for it) even if nobody accepts that it is worth something?
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Old 13th May 2022, 09:48 AM   #2054
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Always has been. It's like a Pyramid Scheme but a circle.
* YAWN * so who is running this "circle"?
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:01 AM   #2055
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
* YAWN * so who is running this "circle"?
The invisible dragon in my garage.

Or God does with magic.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:17 AM   #2056
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The invisible dragon in my garage.

Or God does with magic.
That makes more sense than what you are posting about bitcoin.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:18 AM   #2057
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That makes more sense than what you are posting about bitcoin.
No it just means you've found yet another religion.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:20 AM   #2058
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Can you name an example of something that is valuable (you can get money for it) even if nobody accepts that it is worth something?
Geeze. I can always find some one to take real money. It may be a giant scam on the part of our governments (fiat currency et al) but an awful lot of people buy into the idea. I think everything I have bought has been with money. Never had anyone reject it.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:27 AM   #2059
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again because crypto currencies are trying to be or claiming to be:

- An actual functional day to day alternative currency for normal purchases.
- A secret underground "That coin from John Wick" currency.
- A get rich quick scheme.
- A quasi-legal money laundering method.
- Basically a purely symbolic handshake for people super into deep state economy conspiracy theories.

And it can't be all of those things at once.
It can be get rich quick and get poor quick at the same time. So why not the other things ?
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:29 AM   #2060
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
It can be get rich quick and get poor quick at the same time. So why not the other things ?
Because it's a get rich (or get poor) quick scheme because it is so volatile and you can't have a currency that works that way.

Nobody buys Bitcoin going "Oh I might make a .5% return on investment over the course of the next 10 years" and nobody is going to use a currency that might spike or plummet 500% if Elon Musk makes a tweet about it.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:31 AM   #2061
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again because crypto currencies are trying to be or claiming to be:

- An actual functional day to day alternative currency for normal purchases.
- A secret underground "That coin from John Wick" currency.
- A get rich quick scheme.
- A quasi-legal money laundering method.
- Basically a purely symbolic handshake for people super into deep state economy conspiracy theories.

And it can't be all of those things at once.
BTW I think that one is a MUCH bigger deal then a lot of people are thinking. Using Bitcoin is the "Let's Go Brandon" of the financial douchebag world.
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:34 AM   #2062
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Can you name an example of something that is valuable (you can get money for it) even if nobody accepts that it is worth something?
Psion replying with variations of "Nuh uh" for several years now
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Old 13th May 2022, 10:57 AM   #2063
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because it's a get rich (or get poor) quick scheme because it is so volatile and you can't have a currency that works that way.

Nobody buys Bitcoin going "Oh I might make a .5% return on investment over the course of the next 10 years" and nobody is going to use a currency that might spike or plummet 500% if Elon Musk makes a tweet about it.
It IS used as a currency though. And Elon achieved 10%. In 20 minutes, which was remarkable, but 10%. Not 500%. It takes months to get 500%. If you convert crypto to fiat right away, you risk few % at worse.
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Old 13th May 2022, 11:02 AM   #2064
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
It IS used as a currency though.
Yeah so are Camel Bucks.

It's has zero advantages as a currency over actual money, unless the transaction is illegal or shady.

Like I said I'm not buying hitmen, child porn, or black tar heroin off the dark web, why would ever use Bitcoin?
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Old 13th May 2022, 11:20 AM   #2065
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah so are Camel Bucks.

It's has zero advantages as a currency over actual money, unless the transaction is illegal or shady.

Like I said I'm not buying hitmen, child porn, or black tar heroin off the dark web, why would ever use Bitcoin?
If you have bitcoin, and seller accepts bitcoin, why make the conversion. Businesses accepting bitcoin usually aim at clients who hold bitcoin.
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Old 13th May 2022, 11:21 AM   #2066
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
If you have bitcoin, and seller accepts bitcoin, why make the conversion. Businesses accepting bitcoin usually aim at clients who hold bitcoin.
Where the pizza you buy or sell could cost anything between $1 and $100 depending on the time of day.
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Old 13th May 2022, 11:22 AM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
If you have bitcoin, and seller accepts bitcoin, why make the conversion. Businesses accepting bitcoin usually aim at clients who hold bitcoin.
Why have Bitcoin in the first place? There's nobody who takes ONLY Bitcoin outside of the shady reasons already covered.

A list of reasons why there's no reason NOT to use Bitcoin isn't the same thing as a reason to use it.
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Old 13th May 2022, 01:03 PM   #2068
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why have Bitcoin in the first place? There's nobody who takes ONLY Bitcoin outside of the shady reasons already covered.

A list of reasons why there's no reason NOT to use Bitcoin isn't the same thing as a reason to use it.
International purchases that are not regular or large enough to bother with international wires. I've mainly run into the issues for buying from service providers from Russia, and btc, which is huge a pain in the ass, is sometimes the only option. This is probably a business side issue vs regular people though.
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Old 13th May 2022, 02:25 PM   #2069
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah so are Camel Bucks.

It's has zero advantages as a currency over actual money, unless the transaction is illegal or shady.
You can move a mountain of money-your money-in just minutes on the blockchain. It can take more than a week to do so with traditional money. Whether you "need it to" is irrelevant. It's an advantage over actual money, which is slow.

Whether that leads to a host of other problems is a different argument. But simply saying it has no advantages is an untrue statement. Being able to move funds quickly is always an advantage.
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Old 13th May 2022, 02:34 PM   #2070
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
You can move a mountain of money-your money-in just minutes on the blockchain. It can take more than a week to do so with traditional money. Whether you "need it to" is irrelevant. It's an advantage over actual money, which is slow.

Whether that leads to a host of other problems is a different argument. But simply saying it has no advantages is an untrue statement. Being able to move funds quickly is always an advantage.
It’s not just that it leads to problems, it is that such movements are only ever necessary for nefarious ends.

It is not like a kitchen knife that can also be used to stab people, it is a bayonet that is pretty bad at everything but stabbing people.

I can wire $50,000 in the US in hours, I can wire that amount to Asia in a few days. I can pay small bills worldwide via Venmo instantly. I can’t imagine a legitimate transaction where I would need to move more money than Venmo allows in less time than a wire would take. I’m sure I just lack imagination.
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Old 13th May 2022, 02:38 PM   #2071
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Minutes is also pretty lousy if all you want to buy is a kitchen knife.
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Old 13th May 2022, 02:47 PM   #2072
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Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
Minutes is also pretty lousy if all you want to buy is a kitchen knife.
Especially since the price of the knife could change 5% in that time frame.
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Old 13th May 2022, 03:31 PM   #2073
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Where the pizza you buy or sell could cost anything between $1 and $100 depending on the time of day.
How did you come up with that ?
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Old 13th May 2022, 03:32 PM   #2074
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Why have Bitcoin in the first place? There's nobody who takes ONLY Bitcoin outside of the shady reasons already covered.

A list of reasons why there's no reason NOT to use Bitcoin isn't the same thing as a reason to use it.
Reason or not, Bitcoin IS used as currency. Rarely, indeed. But you can't say it's not possible.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:39 PM   #2075
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Reason or not, Bitcoin IS used as currency. Rarely, indeed. But you can't say it's not possible.
Well that's a cop out non-answer.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:39 PM   #2076
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Can you name an example of something that is valuable (you can get money for it) even if nobody accepts that it is worth something?
Circular argument there. Money is intrinsically and specifically worth nothing. All value systems are value systems, social constructs. They mean nothing except what we agree they are worth.
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Old 13th May 2022, 05:41 PM   #2077
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This all reminds me of "The Age of Uncertainty" by Galbraith when any Bank could print it's own currency. It lead to chaos and "Banks" that were little more than a printing press hidden out the back of a swamp. The only way to restore a social respect of the value of a currency was to have a central bank guaranteed by the government.
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Old 13th May 2022, 06:12 PM   #2078
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
This all reminds me of "The Age of Uncertainty" by Galbraith when any Bank could print it's own currency. It lead to chaos and "Banks" that were little more than a printing press hidden out the back of a swamp. The only way to restore a social respect of the value of a currency was to have a central bank guaranteed by the government.
So true. “The only thing that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.” Georg Hegel
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Old 13th May 2022, 09:04 PM   #2079
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Geeze. I can always find some one to take real money.
Yes, you can get money for money. Anything else?
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Old 13th May 2022, 09:06 PM   #2080
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Circular argument there. Money is intrinsically and specifically worth nothing. All value systems are value systems, social constructs. They mean nothing except what we agree they are worth.
Yet this was given as a negative only for bitcoin.
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