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Old 20th November 2018, 05:12 AM   #1401
Darat
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Originally Posted by Mr Fied View Post
Agree, I think a lot of this is looking back through rose tinted glasses.

Police being outnumbered/overpowered and seriously assaulted is nothing new. Think of cases like the Harry Roberts murders or that of P.C. Blakelock.

However, I do believe respect, and to some extent fear (fear of being caught, not fear of violence), of the police has declined over the years.

Obviously there are a lot of reasons for this whether real or perceived. Such as softer sentencing and reducing police powers.
Sentencing has become much tougher over the years, especially for violent crimes and if my recollection is correct we now jail a higher percentage of criminals than we have done in the past.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:25 AM   #1402
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Originally Posted by Mr Fied View Post
Agree, I think a lot of this is looking back through rose tinted glasses.

Police being outnumbered/overpowered and seriously assaulted is nothing new. Think of cases like the Harry Roberts murders or that of P.C. Blakelock.

However, I do believe respect, and to some extent fear (fear of being caught, not fear of violence), of the police has declined over the years.

Obviously there are a lot of reasons for this whether real or perceived. Such as softer sentencing and reducing police powers.
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Sentencing has become much tougher over the years, especially for violent crimes and if my recollection is correct we now jail a higher percentage of criminals than we have done in the past.
That was why I said real or perceived. The press like to highlight
the cases where they feel lenient sentences have been handed down. I think this leads to a perception amongst some groups that the majority of sentences are lenient, and that there is less to fear from being caught by the police.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:36 AM   #1403
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Now sold.

For scrap, at a loss of over £300,000.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-300000-loss
They probably could have got more than the scrap value selling them to a props company, or one of those "drive a 'tank' for a day" outfits.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:41 AM   #1404
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
They are unable to apprehend an assailant without the help from the public.
Rare exceptions are not the rule.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:45 AM   #1405
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
You do talk bollocks.
My Uncle Harold was a police officer in Scarborough right through the 70s, ended up as Desk Sergeant before he retired in 82

Cops used to get done over all the time on summer Saturday evenings and bank holidays when the town was full of train loads of day trippers up from Leeds and Bradford.

Police are no more or less 'emasculated' than they ever were.
My great-grandfather - an ex-Grenadier Guardsman - was in the Bridlington Constabulary, and was known for being exceptional simply because there were certain pubs in the Old Town that he'd go into alone to make an arrest.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 20th November 2018 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 20th November 2018, 10:49 AM   #1406
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Now they can beat up on a cop knowing damn well that cop isn't trained or authorised to fight back in any meaningful way, and if they are caught they'll at worst serve a few weeks in jail with their mates.
That's simply not true.
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Old 20th November 2018, 01:30 PM   #1407
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
And why are they smaller and less fit?
The height requirement was ended and injuries during training meant much of the fitness testing was scrapped.

Quote:
To a large degree it's the fault of the selection procedure, training and policies. I genuinely feel sorry for cops who have to deal with these scum day in and day out with effectively one hand tied behind their back.
There were far more fights to deal with back when I joined in the late 1980s than there was when I finished a few years back. Violence in general has dropped over the past few decades. Here is the ONS "The nature of violent crime in England and Wales"

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndingmarch2017

"Longer term there has been a statistically significant decrease of 68% from the peak of 3.8 million incidents in 1995."

"Victimisation rates have declined in line with this, with 1.7% of adults aged 16 and over being a victim of violent crime in the 12 months prior to interview in the year ending March 2017 CSEW, compared with 4.8% in 1995."

In Scotland;

https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00525102.pdf

Violent crime has dropped 2008/9 to 2014/15 by;

- 41% according to the Scottish Crime & Justice Survey.
- 50% according to the police.
- 22% according to reports of assault.
- 52% according to NHS assault admissions.

When I was a young cop, I was used to having to arrest violent people. I did it every single week, without fail, even in the picturesque rural places I worked. Nowadays, a weekend in Glasgow may see many cops not have to deal with any violent situations at all.
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Old 20th November 2018, 01:40 PM   #1408
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There's a lot less drink related violence than when I was a youngster.

A Friday or Saturday night out in Guisborough or Whitby would usually see a couple of fights in the street and the cops involved.
These days you rarely see more than raised voices and never a blue light.

ETA apart from Regatta Week in Whitby when all the dregs are in town from Leeds and Tyneside.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:09 AM   #1409
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
That's simply not true.
Quite.
As the link I posted from the Beeb earlier has a 70s copper explain that they were really not trained at all to deal with these things.
Hence how a couple in their 50s managed to give a hard time to 5 plain clothes police.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:24 AM   #1410
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The British police have never been good at dealing with violent resistance from aggressive anti-social elements..
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Old 21st November 2018, 04:51 PM   #1411
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Glad to see further interest in my thread. More news to update.

More evidence the UK police are unprepared for dealing with crime in the current year. Two police officers (one male, one female) were beaten up by two men. They were saved by a moped driver who stopped to intervene. The incompetence of the police is putting the public at risk because bystanders are now tasked with helping the hapless officers. Only one assailant was arrested thanks to a good samaritan.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-assault.html
Have you ever been to the UK, Baylor?
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Old 21st November 2018, 05:18 PM   #1412
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The height requirement was ended and injuries during training meant much of the fitness testing was scrapped.



There were far more fights to deal with back when I joined in the late 1980s than there was when I finished a few years back. Violence in general has dropped over the past few decades. Here is the ONS "The nature of violent crime in England and Wales"

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndingmarch2017

"Longer term there has been a statistically significant decrease of 68% from the peak of 3.8 million incidents in 1995."

"Victimisation rates have declined in line with this, with 1.7% of adults aged 16 and over being a victim of violent crime in the 12 months prior to interview in the year ending March 2017 CSEW, compared with 4.8% in 1995."

In Scotland;

https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00525102.pdf

Violent crime has dropped 2008/9 to 2014/15 by;

- 41% according to the Scottish Crime & Justice Survey.
- 50% according to the police.
- 22% according to reports of assault.
- 52% according to NHS assault admissions.

When I was a young cop, I was used to having to arrest violent people. I did it every single week, without fail, even in the picturesque rural places I worked. Nowadays, a weekend in Glasgow may see many cops not have to deal with any violent situations at all.
I think it's inversely correlated with the whole 'be a man' thing that kids were taught growing up and is lessening now. Nowadays people can use words without looking like 'not a man' crap.
EDIT: That includes anyone, not just men.

Last edited by p0lka; 21st November 2018 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 25th November 2018, 11:04 AM   #1413
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Originally Posted by Camillus View Post
The British police have never been good at dealing with violent resistance from aggressive anti-social elements..
Suffragists were well trained, hatpins, umbrellas, batons, firearms...
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Old 25th November 2018, 02:59 PM   #1414
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See the Met has reduced 'moped muggings' by more than a third by adopting a policy of ramming the mopeds off the road with police cars and officers on motorbikes.
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Old 25th November 2018, 03:29 PM   #1415
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Suffragists were well trained, hatpins, umbrellas, batons, firearms...
Also IEDs.
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Old 26th November 2018, 03:03 AM   #1416
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
See the Met has reduced 'moped muggings' by more than a third by adopting a policy of ramming the mopeds off the road with police cars and officers on motorbikes.
One of their better decisions. They need to fit their cars with bull bars so that the inevitable bodywork damage does not have to be paid for by the taxpayer after every successful take-down.
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Old 26th November 2018, 03:05 AM   #1417
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
See the Met has reduced 'moped muggings' by more than a third by adopting a policy of ramming the mopeds off the road with police cars and officers on motorbikes.
A fair bit of the footage has been shown on BBC London News. Some of the miscreants look rather surprised as they pick themselves up off the tarmac.
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Old 26th November 2018, 03:13 AM   #1418
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
See the Met has reduced 'moped muggings' by more than a third by adopting a policy of ramming the mopeds off the road with police cars and officers on motorbikes.
I suspect they'll still be accused of cowardice and lack of professionalism for not double-tapping the miscreants while they lie stunned in the middle of the road.

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Old 27th November 2018, 02:13 PM   #1419
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I suspect they'll still be accused of cowardice and lack of professionalism for not double-tapping the miscreants while they lie stunned in the middle of the road.

Dave
Nope. I actually give credit where credit is due. Looks like police in the UK have been reading this thread and have taken my criticism to heart.

https://streamable.com/5dg12

Fine policing gentlemen.
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Old 27th November 2018, 03:10 PM   #1420
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
A fair bit of the footage has been shown on BBC London News. Some of the miscreants look rather surprised as they pick themselves up off the tarmac.
Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I suspect they'll still be accused of cowardice and lack of professionalism for not double-tapping the miscreants while they lie stunned in the middle of the road.

Dave
post #1416...

close enough.
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Old 27th November 2018, 08:29 PM   #1421
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
A fair bit of the footage has been shown on BBC London News. Some of the miscreants look rather surprised as they pick themselves up off the tarmac.
British police officers with some fight in them. That surprised me too. Just waiting for the apology tour.
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:31 PM   #1422
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
One of their better decisions. They need to fit their cars with bull bars so that the inevitable bodywork damage does not have to be paid for by the taxpayer after every successful take-down.
[ticks another box on the fascism checklist]
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Old 28th November 2018, 03:05 AM   #1423
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
[ticks another box on the fascism checklist]
It's a bit weird you checklist your own attributes, but there you go. Make sure you don't omit terrorist apology and child rape apology.
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Old 28th November 2018, 07:17 AM   #1424
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Baron, did you know that when one police officer or one police force does something, that does not mean every single UK police officer and police force is also doing it?

So, whilst some police forces and officers did ignore reports of CSE, others did not and whilst the Met are know authorised to ram scooters, not all are?

All the videos I have seen are traffic patrol vehicles, so only certain officers have authorisation. Where I worked, very occasionally a traffic vehicle would be allowed to use force to stop another road user. It happened once when I was in a pursuit where the driver was known to have mental health issues and the fear was he was going to try and take out himself and others. So a traffic car blocked the road and as he tried to get by, nudged him into a ditch.
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Old 28th November 2018, 07:36 AM   #1425
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Baron, did you know that when one police officer or one police force does something, that does not mean every single UK police officer and police force is also doing it?
Er, yes...?

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
So, whilst some police forces and officers did ignore reports of CSE, others did not and whilst the Met are know authorised to ram scooters, not all are?

All the videos I have seen are traffic patrol vehicles, so only certain officers have authorisation. Where I worked, very occasionally a traffic vehicle would be allowed to use force to stop another road user. It happened once when I was in a pursuit where the driver was known to have mental health issues and the fear was he was going to try and take out himself and others. So a traffic car blocked the road and as he tried to get by, nudged him into a ditch.
OK.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:11 AM   #1426
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It's a bit weird you checklist your own attributes, but there you go. Make sure you don't omit terrorist apology and child rape apology.
Ahahaha. You make the funny joke. I laugh.
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:33 AM   #1427
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Ahahaha. You make the funny joke. I laugh.
Could you take it elsewhere?
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Old 29th November 2018, 12:43 AM   #1428
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Could you take it elsewhere?
Take what elsewhere?
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:52 AM   #1429
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
This is getting really boring now, and frankly it's more than a little naive of you to think that we're stupid enough to fall for it. You GIFing a small fraction of video footage and posting it without proper attribution or context proves nothing.

Metro: Motorbike gang tries to rob mum with child in West London

"Motorbike gang try to rob mother in front of her child on Sandpits Road, Richmond in London."

London Evening Standard: Amanda Holden tweets terrifying clip of moped thugs targeting mother and child in Richmond... before builders chase them with scaffolding poles

"Britainís Got Talent Judge Amanda Holden tweeted an urgent appeal for information after shocking footage emerged of the moment a woman and child were targeted by a moped gang in Richmond.

The terrifying clip, which was shared online by Holden on Tuesday, shows a gang of moped thugs trying to attack a woman and child before passing builders, armed with metal rods, intervene.

The Met Police confirmed to the Standard that it was investigating the attempted robbery which happened in Sandpits Road, Richmond, at 12.35pm on June 21."

Now, either you sourced that from a website that lied about what it showed, and you stupidly believed it, or you're sourced it from somewhere that clearly states what it is, and you're lying.

Which is it?
Bumping this thread as I just spotted the report of sentencing on this prolific gang of thieves (misidentified as child abductors in the thread as previously discussed). Ringleader got over 13 years.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48256040
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