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Tags Kentucky incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 8th May 2019, 02:58 PM   #841
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That is an eclectic and self-inconsistent set of interests.
What's the inconsistency?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:06 PM   #842
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OK, we have an ID and photos of the juvenile now.

Originally Posted by Heavy
Alec McKinney has been identified as one of the students accused in the shooting at STEM School Highlands Ranch in Douglas County, Colorado that left one heroic teen dead and eight others injured. McKinney is identified in Douglas County court records as Maya Elizabeth McKinney, but Heavy has learned that McKinney goes by Alec McKinney and identifies as male.

The Denver Post has confirmed that McKinney is the juvenile suspect in the shooting. Authorities gave the name of the adult male suspect as 18-year-old Devon Erickson.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/05/alec-maya-mckinney
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:20 PM   #843
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's the inconsistency?
He complains about Christians being hateful to gays and is upset with Donald Trump, but also follows Chuck Norris and PewDiePie, both of whose present-day fan clubs are decidedly anti-SJW. Norris particularly is a quite outspoken Trump and Roy Moore supporter.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:41 PM   #844
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No motive announced yet.

I do wonder if they thought they would still be alive right now. Was it a suicide mission with chicken-out, or were they supposed to die in a police shootout? There is no chance to run away and hide in Fantasyland. Did they decide that life in prison would be just fine?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:45 PM   #845
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There was another "trans" mass shooter back on Page 17.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...326633&page=17
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:03 PM   #846
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I've been reading about the dead victim a lot. He was a FIRST Robotics student, and his father was Lead Mentor for the team, so there's quite a bit of tributes going on over on the unofficial First forums. (There are no official First forums, but there is a blog, and they posted it.) The kid lunged at the shooters, who shot him.

Of course, early reports are always fragmentary, but there were a couple of differences between this one and some other shootings. First, there were two shooters. That's rare, although of course Columbine was another example. Second, they didn't start killing right away. They burst in and told the students not to move. That was when he was attacked by other students. Reports say that three students jumped one of the gunmen, but that it was the police (or security guard?) who actually subdued the shooters. Is it possible that their motive wasn't murder at all? Or maybe they were after someone specific as opposed to a random killing spree? Is it possible that they only fired as a reaction to being attacked?


Well, the kid who died, Kendrick Castillo, still gets hero status in my book. They were probably there to kill people and there certainly was good reason to assume so. Praise should go to the students who did what they could to stop them, and especially so to the one who died trying.

And finally, you have the person who was called a boy, and now is being called a girl, but there might be an asterisk involved. It seems that part is subject to some interpretation, and is not officially decided.

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Old 8th May 2019, 04:15 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Of course, early reports are always fragmentary, but there were a couple of differences between this one and some other shootings. First, there were two shooters. That's rare, although of course Columbine was another example. Second, they didn't start killing right away. They burst in and told the students not to move. That was when he was attacked by other students. Reports say that three students jumped one of the gunmen, but that it was the police (or security guard?) who actually subdued the shooters. Is it possible that their motive wasn't murder at all? Or maybe they were after someone specific as opposed to a random killing spree? Is it possible that they only fired as a reaction to being attacked?
These are some good points. The reports I read said that the other kids had effectively disarmed the shooters, but that there was still an active general struggle underway when police arrived. I suppose those details aren't tremendously important and we can wait patiently for the truth of the matter to work itself out.

That is a very good idea about the possible targeting. To my knowledge, every random-mass-shooting at a school has begun with the attacker doing just that - suddenly pulling out his firearm and shooting at whomever was close by. If it's true that these assailants when they first entered the classroom started out by ordering everyone to remain still, and not just shooting...it does indeed suggest they had a specific target in mind and didn't initially plan to shoot just anyone.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:20 PM   #848
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Reports say that they had three handguns and a rifle. All were stolen from Erickson's parents who legally owned them. A fellow student said that Erickson had talked about doing this kind of thing.

None of that is confirmed.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:21 PM   #849
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And finally, you have the person who was called a boy, and now is being called a girl, but there might be an asterisk involved. It seems that part is subject to some interpretation, and is not officially decided.
Born as a biological female with a vagina.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:27 PM   #850
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So, he's a loon. Left, right, up, down, doesn't matter. All that matters to the NRA is that loons can get guns. Unless they're black loons, which would be bad.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:46 PM   #851
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Erickson has painted fingernails.
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Old 8th May 2019, 06:26 PM   #852
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Another thing I've noticed is that there are two suspects in custody, but all the eyewitness accounts I have heard have spoken of "the shooter".


It's not all that important, and more detail will come out with time, but in these things we always have some sort of desire to find out information about why the people do what they do. The nature of the relationship between the two is part of that.
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Old 8th May 2019, 06:43 PM   #853
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Another thing I've noticed is that there are two suspects in custody, but all the eyewitness accounts I have heard have spoken of "the shooter".
Both may have been armed but only one pulled the trigger. Maybe.

Quote:
It's not all that important, and more detail will come out with time, but in these things we always have some sort of desire to find out information about why the people do what they do. The nature of the relationship between the two is part of that.
Erickson may also be non-typical with his sexuality, making them both feel out-of-place and maybe feeling persecuted.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:22 AM   #854
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It sounds like the two gunmen must have split up. I've read a lot about the fight that involved Kendrick Castillo, and in all the descriptions there are only mentions of one gunman, and it seems when that fight was over, the gunman was disarmed and subdued. I've seen reports that a security guard disarmed a gunman, so that must have been in a second, separate, fight.


It's also not clear which of the two gunmen were involved in which skirmish. It sounds like both of them did fire shots, and both of them did injure students. No word on motive yet. I've seen very little description of either gunman.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:13 AM   #855
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It sounds like the two gunmen must have split up.
From the beginning it was reported that the gunmen were in two different places.

Quote:
I've seen very little description of either gunman.
Physical description? I've posted photos of both of them.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:27 AM   #856
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
From the beginning it was reported that the gunmen were in two different places.


Physical description? I've posted photos of both of them.
Right. Yes, physical descriptions have been out there, especially of the older one. I meant to say that there hasn't been much about the motivations or behavior of the two. The younger is trans. The older had antisocial dirty words on his car. Beyond that, not much.
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:25 AM   #857
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Beyond that, not much.
There are both of their social media writings published now by Daily Mail and Heavy. So you can read quite a bit of what they wrote.

Also classmates have talked about each of them.

It seems to me that their angst is that society does not properly embrace LBGTQ. They may have special angst towards Christianity for this. I suspect that Erickson is also in that spectrum and is not decidedly straight hetero.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:27 PM   #858
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Investigators probing whether private STEM School guard shot a student and fired upon deputies

Originally Posted by The Denver Post
Detectives in the STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting are investigating whether a private security guard shot a student or at a Douglas County sheriff’s deputy responding to the scene of the mass shooting, ABC News and other news outlets are reporting.

A top law enforcement official told ABC News that detectives are trying to determine if a round from the security officer’s firearm struck and wounded an innocent student, the news organization is reporting. The source said the investigation is in its early stages and authorities are speaking with the security guard to learn more...
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/0...guard-colorado
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:59 PM   #859
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Very few student-perpetrated school shootings seem to have definitive political motives. This is probably because it's hard to nail down what schoolchildren's politics are, because they probably don't have any strongly-defined politics and flip-flop on their opinions several times as they mature. The older shooter's eclectic social media interests seem to illustrate this point, showing him following a mix of liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning pages. The pro-Obama meme that much hay is being made of, was shared by him over four years ago, when he was 14 and still in middle school. And Heavy.com highlighted the fact that when he was 11 years old, he dressed up as Slender Man for Halloween. It strains credibility to imagine even the slightest relevance of such a fact.

Taking an unscientific poll of school shootings where motives are known or have been reasonably deduced, the common thread seems to be always age-relevant social issues. Bullying or the perception of it, peer acceptance, bad grades from teachers, and spurned advances or romantic rejection seem to be the order of the day.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:08 PM   #860
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Very few student-perpetrated school shootings seem to have definitive political motives. This is probably because it's hard to nail down what schoolchildren's politics are, because they probably don't have any strongly-defined politics and flip-flop on their opinions several times as they mature. The older shooter's eclectic social media interests seem to illustrate this point, showing him following a mix of liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning pages. The pro-Obama meme that much hay is being made of, was shared by him over four years ago, when he was 14 and still in middle school. And Heavy.com highlighted the fact that when he was 11 years old, he dressed up as Slender Man for Halloween. It strains credibility to imagine even the slightest relevance of such a fact.

Taking an unscientific poll of school shootings where motives are known or have been reasonably deduced, the common thread seems to be always age-relevant social issues. Bullying or the perception of it, peer acceptance, bad grades from teachers, and spurned advances or romantic rejection seem to be the order of the day.
And that seems to be the case here, although it's too early to tell. Apparently Devon broke up with a girlfriend recently. Alec had family conflict. Both of them seemed to be seething with teenager-y style "hate everything" vibes. (Information came from the web, especially heavy.com)



Meanwhile, there's some investigating whether the heroic security guard actually may have shot a student by accident, and it's still not clear exactly who apprehended whom. The guard still gets bravery points for being willing to fly into danger, but might lose a couple for being a little twitchy on the trigger. Again, time will tell. I
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:59 PM   #861
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I just watched the unedited version of the interview yesterday with Brendan Bialy, one of the three students who attacked and subdued one of the gunmen. The interesting thing was that I had seen bits and pieces of the interview, and seen several quotes from Brendan. Here is what he began with, talking about Kendrick Castillo,

"He died a legend. He died a trooper. He got his ticket to Valhalla, and I know that he will be with me for the rest of my life."


I had heard sound bites yesterday that included three out of four of those phrases.



And that was one heck of an interview. There are three sets of parents out there that must be incredibly proud of their kids, and it totally sucks that one pair of those parents will never be able to be with that kid again.


I hope I never get a chance to be a hero, but if I ever do, I hope I could be like those three.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:10 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
So, he's a loon. Left, right, up, down, doesn't matter. All that matters to the NRA is that loons can get guns. Unless they're black loons, which would be bad.
Yes, but "black loons" have green money too, and I would think that would be the priority!
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:43 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes, but "black loons" have green money too, and I would think that would be the priority!
Only to the gun manufacturers, who know that guns legally sold to whites will make their way to criminals of all races and creeds soon enough.
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Old 9th May 2019, 05:49 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post

And that was one heck of an interview. There are three sets of parents out there that must be incredibly proud of their kids,
"I heard his fiance got a letter
That said how Billy died that
The letter said that he was a hero
She should be proud he died that way
I heard she threw the letter away"

Given the option of a dead hero or a live coward, as a parent I'd be much happier with the coward. I get you want to make the best of the situation, but having them be a hero would be little solace for me.
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:14 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
"I heard his fiance got a letter
That said how Billy died that
The letter said that he was a hero
She should be proud he died that way
I heard she threw the letter away"

Given the option of a dead hero or a live coward, as a parent I'd be much happier with the coward. I get you want to make the best of the situation, but having them be a hero would be little solace for me.
Yeah. That's where the "sucks" part comes in.


And it wouldn't even need to be a "coward". It's not like the other kids in the classroom, the ones who didn't attack the shooter, were cowards. They were just ordinary. If Kendrick had been ordinary, he would just have been a face in the crowd, reunited with his parents. Or, thinking as I type, maybe he wouldn't have been, because maybe he would have been killed along with a bunch of others. We'll never know. But, so it goes. He's dead. There's nothing for it.

I don't know if the pain that his parents feel will be in any way diminished just because they are proud of him.

I remember a line from a bad movie from some years back. I think the speaker was making a classical reference, but I am not sure. "Some say, 'Happy is the land who has heroes.' I say, 'Pity the land that needs them'"

It really sucks that we need heroes in our schools.

ETA: I looked it up. Bertolt Brecht

Quote:
Andrea: Unhappy is the land that breeds no hero.
Galileo: No, Andrea: Unhappy is the land that needs a hero.

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Old 10th May 2019, 04:30 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Investigators probing whether private STEM School guard shot a student and fired upon deputies



https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/0...guard-colorado
More information on that:

STEM School Highlands Ranch security guard saw muzzle of weapon, fired 2 rounds, sources say

Quote:
HIGHLANDS RANCH, Colo. — The investigation into a suspected incident of “friendly fire” during the attack on a Highlands Ranch school centers on reports that a private security guard saw the muzzle of a gun come around a corner and shot back, 9Wants to Know has learned.

But that muzzle was apparently the gun of a responding Douglas County sheriff’s deputy, who was not wounded in the incident, multiple law enforcement sources confirmed Friday.

The security guard, who works for BOSS High Level Protection, was reported to have fired two shots at the sheriff’s officer...
Quote:
Investigators are also looking into the possibility that a bullet fired by that security guard may have hit and wounded one of the students who was injured in the attack. That question is not likely to be settled until all ballistics testing is completed.
Quote:
The security officer has not been publicly identified. However, 9Wants to Know has confirmed that he is a 29-year-old former sheriff’s deputy and Marine – and that he apprehended one of the teenage suspects in the incident.

He enrolled in the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department’s academy July 11, 2013, graduated that December, and worked in the jail before leaving the department Aug. 23, 2017, according to records provided to 9Wants to Know.

Before that, he served in the U.S. Marine Corps from June 2008 to June 2012, deploying twice to Afghanistan. After his four-year stint of active duty ended, he spent three more years in the reserves, 9Wants to Know confirmed with the U.S. Marine Corps.
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Old 10th May 2019, 05:11 PM   #867
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Very difficult situation. The security guard knew there was more than one shooter, it seems a pretty reasonable assumption that an unannounced gun coming around a corner belonged to a bad guy. More things to be investigated.

The "nobody move" command still puzzles me. Also, the hearing that was supposed to see charges filed today was postponed until next Wednesday at prosecution request. There is obviously something that isn't all that straightforward to sort out. It could be as simple as figuring out who shot whom, to determine exact charges, or maybe investigation to what extent one shooter was "in charge" to the point where reduced charges might be appropriate for one of the shooters.
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Old 10th May 2019, 05:22 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
...or maybe investigation to what extent one shooter was "in charge" to the point where reduced charges might be appropriate for one of the shooters.
If they do that "felony murder" charging thing then the crime partner gets charged with murder also even if they didn't kill.
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Old 10th May 2019, 05:31 PM   #869
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If they do that "felony murder" charging thing then the crime partner gets charged with murder also even if they didn't kill.
But in many cases they treat the "ringleader" differently, especially if there are signs the relationship was coercive or domineering. Tim McVeigh and John Mohammed were executed. Their partners, who were really just as involved as they were, got life in prison.

Certainly both of these people could be eligible for first degree murder charges, or even the death penalty. (Did courts ban that for under 18s? I can't remember.) However, I wouldn't expect to see a death penalty sought in this case, but that's up to prosecutors.
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Old 10th May 2019, 06:39 PM   #870
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Certainly both of these people could be eligible for first degree murder charges, or even the death penalty. (Did courts ban that for under 18s? I can't remember.)
Yes; in 2005.
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Old 10th May 2019, 06:46 PM   #871
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes; in 2005.
Thanks. So, they could both get first degree murder charges. One could get the death penalty. However, prosecutors might decide to press lesser charges if, after review, they decide first degree murder isn't appropriate for one of the gunmen. (I would certainly expect at least one first degree murder charge, and probably two, but I wouldn't expect seeking the death penalty for either.)
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Old 10th May 2019, 06:57 PM   #872
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Daily Mail UK

In review, the Daily Mail tends to publish stories utilizing sensationalized headlines with emotionally loaded wordings such as “Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari”, which is obviously a fake news story. In 2017, Wikipedia banned the Daily Mail as an ‘unreliable’ source. When it comes to sourcing information they use minimal hyperlinked sourcing as well as sourcing to themselves. In general, most stories favor the right, however the Daily Mail will report either side if the story is sensational enough.

You can check most media outlets here and, so, perhaps look for something more reliable than the Daily Fail? It has the same integrity as Faux News.
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Old 10th May 2019, 07:34 PM   #873
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Daily Mail UK

In review, the Daily Mail tends to publish stories utilizing sensationalized headlines with emotionally loaded wordings such as “Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari”, which is obviously a fake news story. In 2017, Wikipedia banned the Daily Mail as an ‘unreliable’ source. When it comes to sourcing information they use minimal hyperlinked sourcing as well as sourcing to themselves. In general, most stories favor the right, however the Daily Mail will report either side if the story is sensational enough.

You can check most media outlets here and, so, perhaps look for something more reliable than the Daily Fail? It has the same integrity as Faux News.
It is consistent with other outlets who are reporting on the story about the deputy. It has a bit more detail, which presumably means they are willing to go to press with a bit less confirmation, but the basic substance of the story, that the guard fired at responding deputies, and may have hit a student, has been fairly widely reported.

Sometimes when I decide not to wait for reputable outlets, I go to the Drudge Report. They are rarely wrong. I just always figure that they can't be trusted quite as easily as the majors. They'll link to some dodgy sources. In the case of this story, though, they haven't seemed very interested. There have been very few links of any sort.
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Old 10th May 2019, 11:43 PM   #874
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A stopped clock ... etc

Except in the Fail’s case, the clock has more often not than been dropped in bull ****, which was the point of my caution about using it, generally, as a valid news source.
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Old 11th May 2019, 12:15 AM   #875
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes, but "black loons" have green money too, and I would think that would be the priority!
Obviously you don't understand how this works.

Two words: Philando Castille.
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Old 12th May 2019, 01:02 AM   #876
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Erickson has painted fingernails.
Yes, and?
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Old 12th May 2019, 05:27 PM   #877
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Yes, and?
William Parcher declined to answer that question for me.
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Old 13th May 2019, 10:01 AM   #878
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Yes, and?
And LOL!
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Old 13th May 2019, 06:05 PM   #879
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
And LOL!
There you go.
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Old 15th May 2019, 03:29 PM   #880
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Reports today that the trans person is being charged as an adult and for the shared charges of murder, attempted murder and a bunch of other charges.
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