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Old 1st May 2019, 05:27 AM   #1081
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Julian Assange has been sentenced to 50 weeks in prison for breach of bail.
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Old 1st May 2019, 07:24 AM   #1082
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If he gave a guilty plea before the hearing he will get up to 1/3 discount and will serve half of the remaining time.
So, he could be out in 16 weeks. If he went not guilty he will lose his discount and will get 25 weeks inside.
His remaining time will be 'on license'.
He will have to agree to various conditions like place of abode, reporting to police and probation etc otherwise he can be recalled to prison
If they think he is not going to comply they may make him do the full time inside.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:36 AM   #1083
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Prediction: For the next few years, the reporting on Assange will be what country is imprisoning him, of the three currently in the queue. UK will be out first, Sweden will get the next grab, with the US waiting patiently till the Swedes are done with him, then off to America to deal with the weak computer intrusion charges followed by multiple new ones that just happen to come up since then. He will be largely forgotten in the news by the time he tastes freedom again.
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Old 1st May 2019, 09:18 AM   #1084
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Julian Assange has been sentenced to 50 weeks in prison for breach of bail.
Does he get to bring his cat with him?

Given the fact that so many were claiming his stay at the embassy was like a form of incarceration, it will be interesting to see how he reacts when he really does lose his freedom.
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Old 1st May 2019, 10:19 AM   #1085
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Does he get to bring his cat with him?

Given the fact that so many were claiming his stay at the embassy was like a form of incarceration, it will be interesting to see how he reacts when he really does lose his freedom.
He'll probably have a better time of it in the UK and Sweden than he had at the Embassy, but his unexpectedly prolonged stay in the Land of the Free wi likely suck
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Old 1st May 2019, 11:24 AM   #1086
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Quote:
Given the fact that so many were claiming his stay at the embassy was like a form of incarceration, it will be interesting to see how he reacts when he really does lose his freedom.
He'll probably have a better time of it in the UK and Sweden than he had at the Embassy...
Do you really think so?

At the embassy, he could basically set his own hours, could have visitors stay for extended periods of time, had (at least for a while) unlimited communications with the outside world.

In prison, his life will be much more strictly regimented. No lengthy visits from friends/celebrities, no unlimited internet usage.
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Old 1st May 2019, 11:38 AM   #1087
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
If he gave a guilty plea before the hearing he will get up to 1/3 discount and will serve half of the remaining time.
So, he could be out in 16 weeks. If he went not guilty he will lose his discount and will get 25 weeks inside.
His remaining time will be 'on license'.
He will have to agree to various conditions like place of abode, reporting to police and probation etc otherwise he can be recalled to prison
If they think he is not going to comply they may make him do the full time inside.
Heíll be fine then. I canít think of any reason why he might not comply.....

.... oh, wait.

In fact, I think he is going to be in British custody for longer than fifty weeks. Iím sure heís going to fight his extradition to the USA and I canít see the courts granting him bail while that legal battle is going on.
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Old 1st May 2019, 11:47 AM   #1088
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If they do let him out on bail, he should go back to Sweden as soon as possible, before the UK completes the process of extraditing him to the US.
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Old 1st May 2019, 07:09 PM   #1089
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Do you really think so?

At the embassy, he could basically set his own hours, could have visitors stay for extended periods of time, had (at least for a while) unlimited communications with the outside world.

In prison, his life will be much more strictly regimented. No lengthy visits from friends/celebrities, no unlimited internet usage.
That's true, prison is no picnic. But in a lower end security prison, you can move around, go outside, and interact with other people.

What struck me about the Embassy is the monotony. Very small quarters, no outdoors at all, and while he had guests, they weren't exactly daily.

The biggest thing will be the internet connection. He is effectively cut off from Wikileaks for, what, eight years at a minimum, assuming the Swedes get their crack within the next year?. Their donations will slowly dry up, and Wikileaks with it, unless a serious leak brings them to public attention again. Maybe one of the other leak sites will rise to fill the void. I hope so. Many leakers don't want to go the Snowden route through the papers and go personally public.
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Old 1st May 2019, 10:29 PM   #1090
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That's true, prison is no picnic. But in a lower end security prison, you can move around, go outside, and interact with other people.

What struck me about the Embassy is the monotony. Very small quarters, no outdoors at all, and while he had guests, they weren't exactly daily.

The biggest thing will be the internet connection. He is effectively cut off from Wikileaks for, what, eight years at a minimum, assuming the Swedes get their crack within the next year?. Their donations will slowly dry up, and Wikileaks with it, unless a serious leak brings them to public attention again. Maybe one of the other leak sites will rise to fill the void. I hope so. Many leakers don't want to go the Snowden route through the papers and go personally public.
My concern is who is going to fill the void of impregnating females against their will. Perhaps one of Assange's toadies will take up the mantle.
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Old 1st May 2019, 11:57 PM   #1091
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Prediction: For the next few years, the reporting on Assange will be what country is imprisoning him, of the three currently in the queue. UK will be out first, Sweden will get the next grab, with the US waiting patiently till the Swedes are done with him, then off to America to deal with the weak computer intrusion charges followed by multiple new ones that just happen to come up since then. He will be largely forgotten in the news by the time he tastes freedom again.
Youíre assuming that Sweden would extradite him to the US, which is not certain.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 01:57 AM   #1092
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If they do let him out on bail, he should go back to Sweden as soon as possible, before the UK completes the process of extraditing him to the US.
I imagine the UK would then issue an EAW to get him back. Then he would face another jail term for again breaching of his bail conditions, possibly after he has served a sentence for rape in Sweden and after the US have had a go at him.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:23 AM   #1093
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Assange would probably have done better to have taken refuge in the Russian Embassy. The problem in the Assange case, as I see it, is that there has been a gradual erosion in the respect for international law over the years by countries like America and Britain, and dare I say even Israel. Those countries seem to think that international legality does not apply to them. If you don't try to avoid controversy and make a posting on the internet, say, suggesting that you don't approve of same sex marriages you can now lose your job and be extradited to the United States and hauled before the biased courts of North Carolina. This is what Assange is now up against.

There is a bit of background to this sort of thing in that book The Rule of Law by Tom Bingham published in 2010:

Quote:
Three defendants were it, it seems, rendered to the United States to stand trial in the decade before 1995, but in that year President Clinton issued a Presidential Decision Directive which stated: 'where we do not receive adequate cooperation from a State that harbors a terrorist whose extradition we are seeking, we shall take appropriate measures to induce cooperation. Return of suspects by force may be effected without the cooperation of the host government.' This led to a steep increase in the number of renditions: forty in the three years following the Directive. But in all these cases the suspect was seized in order that he should stand trial in the United States.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 03:12 AM   #1094
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Assange would probably have done better to have taken refuge in the Russian Embassy. The problem in the Assange case, as I see it, is that there has been a gradual erosion in the respect for international law over the years by countries like America and Britain, and dare I say even Israel. Those countries seem to think that international legality does not apply to them. If you don't try to avoid controversy and make a posting on the internet, say, suggesting that you don't approve of same sex marriages you can now lose your job and be extradited to the United States and hauled before the biased courts of North Carolina. This is what Assange is now up against.

There is a bit of background to this sort of thing in that book The Rule of Law by Tom Bingham published in 2010:
So the DUP have been extradited to the US? FFS.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:43 AM   #1095
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Assange would probably have done better to have taken refuge in the Russian Embassy.
He would have done even better just going back to face the music in Sweden. He'd be out of prison by now.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:54 AM   #1096
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Youíre assuming that Sweden would extradite him to the US, which is not certain.
Not an assumption. A prediction. Much as I predicted that the US would whip out a sealed indictment on some petty criminal charge, which was not certain either.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 05:57 AM   #1097
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
He would have done even better just going back to face the music in Sweden. He'd be out of prison by now.
...and been in a US prison. At least he got a few more years of free wifi going the Embassy route.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 02:06 PM   #1098
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He will be a 'Cat C' Prisoner and because of his 'celebrity' status no doubt he will be 'on the rule' and put on to the segregated wing for protection. He will however be expected to do some kind of work regime. If he doesn't he will spend most of the day in his Pad and won't have any money for Canteen or toiletries other than the meagre issued items.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:12 AM   #1099
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Assange would probably have done better to have taken refuge in the Russian Embassy. The problem in the Assange case, as I see it, is that there has been a gradual erosion in the respect for international law over the years by countries like America and Britain, and dare I say even Israel.
How have Britain and the USA broken international law in the Assange case?


Quote:
If you don't try to avoid controversy and make a posting on the internet, say, suggesting that you don't approve of same sex marriages you can now lose your job and be extradited to the United States and hauled before the biased courts of North Carolina. This is what Assange is now up against.
I think citation need for that one.
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Old 13th May 2019, 02:07 AM   #1100
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Sweden have re-opened the case.

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Swedish prosecutors have announced they are reopening an investigation into a rape allegation against Julian Assange.

Prosecutors dropped the investigation in 2017 because they were unable to proceed while Assange remained in the Ecuadorian embassy in London. They said at the time that the investigation could be reopened if the situation changed.
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Old 13th May 2019, 02:28 AM   #1101
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Stature of limitations mean that they have about 15 months to formally file charges in court, meaning that there's almost certainly no way he could face trial if he's extradited to the US.
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Old 13th May 2019, 05:12 AM   #1102
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Stature of limitations mean that they have about 15 months to formally file charges in court, meaning that there's almost certainly no way he could face trial if he's extradited to the US.
The UK gets to determine priority, if I understand the process correctly. Bet you a dollar that the US graciously steps aside for Sweden to have at him. The States waited till quite literally the last possible day to file the sealed indictment in open court before their own statute of limitations was exceeded, and this was for charges stemming from 2010/11. If the objective is to keep Assange locked up and causing no more trouble, it truly shouldn't matter who has him behind bars. The States will be quite patient.
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Old 13th May 2019, 07:02 AM   #1103
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The UK gets to determine priority, if I understand the process correctly. Bet you a dollar that the US graciously steps aside for Sweden to have at him. The States waited till quite literally the last possible day to file the sealed indictment in open court before their own statute of limitations was exceeded, and this was for charges stemming from 2010/11. If the objective is to keep Assange locked up and causing no more trouble, it truly shouldn't matter who has him behind bars. The States will be quite patient.
I think the ultimate decision as to who gets Assange first rests with the British Home Secretary. He might use the statute of limitations as an argument to send him to Sweden first. There seems to be a lot more support to send him there than to send him to the USA, partly because of the nature of the accusations and partly because a lot of people don't think he'll ever see the light of day again if we send him to the USA.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:29 AM   #1104
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I just read the Juilan Assange article on Wikipedia and it repeated the claim that Assange was afraid of being extradited to the US from Sweden, because he allegedly could face the death penalty there.

This is the biggest and most dishonest claim made by him and his supporters. I've said it before and I will say it again: Sweden does not extradite or deport people to areas where they can face the death penalty, corporal punishment, are at risk of being victimized or otherwise face a real risk against their life or well being.

At least in theory that is. Sometimes the authoraties have made quite questionable decisions in the past, but they would certainly require that he wouldn't face the death penalty for any alleged crimes.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:30 AM   #1105
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I just read the Juilan Assange article on Wikipedia and it repeated the claim that Assange was afraid of being extradited to the US from Sweden, because he allegedly could face the death penalty there.

This is the biggest and most dishonest claim made by him and his supporters. I've said it before and I will say it again: Sweden does not extradite or deport people to areas where they can face the death penalty, corporal punishment, are at risk of being victimized or otherwise face a real risk against their life or well being.

At least in theory that is. Sometimes the authoraties have made quite questionable decisions in the past, but they would certainly require that he wouldn't face the death penalty for any alleged crimes.
I believe the same applies to the UK.
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:34 PM   #1106
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Another link - NYT

Looks like the Brits might get to decide who has dibs on Mr. Assange next.

Quote:
The United States has already begun trying to extradite Mr. Assange, an effort that was expected to be prolonged and complex even before the announcement in Stockholm on Monday.

British officials will determine which case takes precedence, Swedish prosecutors said, adding that if Mr. Assange were eventually extradited to Sweden, he could not be sent to the United States without the consent of Britain.
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Old 14th May 2019, 03:28 AM   #1107
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There is a bit of legal waffle about extradition between America and Britain, which applies to the Assange case, in that book The Rule of Law by Tom Bingham published in 2010:

Quote:
The Intelligence and Security Committee expressed its conclusions in this way:

What the rendition programme has shown is that in what it refers to as 'the war on terror' the US will take whatever action it deems necessary, within US law, to protect its national security from those it considers to pose a serious threat. Although the US may take note of UK protests and concerns, this does not appear materially to affect its strategy on rendition.
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Old Today, 12:01 AM   #1108
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The USA has piled on some more charges - seventeen, in fact.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48391266
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Old Today, 12:27 AM   #1109
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Well these espionage charges change a lot. I'm not familiar enough with the law to form an opinion but are these logical consequences of the charge of assisting Manning to gain access? I.e. does the way the material was gained move the act of publishing from 1st amendment protected freedom of the press to espionage? Because otherwise this looks like BS.
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Old Today, 12:55 AM   #1110
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There has always been the argument that assisting Manning to get the stuff, rather than simply publishing things they received, could be used like this.

The bit about publishing stuff that put people at risk is dubious, but I suspect that's more for effect. If the former bit (about helping Manning) doesn't stick then the latter is irrelevant.

Be interested how the Swedes would view this in terms of extradition.
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Old Today, 01:02 AM   #1111
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Also be interesting to know how the addition of a specific espionage charge would impact the likelihood of Sweden extraditing him to the US. I imagine it would be fairly easy for the defence to recast the whole case as a political (and hence non-extraditable) crime. IANAL
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Old Today, 06:54 AM   #1112
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The new charges seem to be receiving and disclosing classified information, which he should be protected as a publisher by precedent. Seems that like the initial computer intrusion charge, the clock was running out on the statute of limitations to file. But now the extradition dilemma is real. Odd move by the Trump admin.
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Old Today, 07:11 AM   #1113
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Well these espionage charges change a lot. I'm not familiar enough with the law to form an opinion but are these logical consequences of the charge of assisting Manning to gain access? I.e. does the way the material was gained move the act of publishing from 1st amendment protected freedom of the press to espionage? Because otherwise this looks like BS.
Receiving and publishing is probably very different from acquiring and publishing. Leaking is publication, but the leaker does not enjoy first amendment protection for doing so. It's a subtle distinction, but one that I think is very important.
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Old Today, 08:22 AM   #1114
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The new charges seem to be receiving and disclosing classified information, which he should be protected as a publisher by precedent. Seems that like the initial computer intrusion charge, the clock was running out on the statute of limitations to file. But now the extradition dilemma is real. Odd move by the Trump admin.
Possibly the new charges are precautionary then. They can always drop them later and even possibly use the offer to do so part of a bargaining/threatening process but they have to have them on file before the cutoff.
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Old Today, 08:29 AM   #1115
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The new charges seem to be receiving and disclosing classified information, which he should be protected as a publisher by precedent. Seems that like the initial computer intrusion charge, the clock was running out on the statute of limitations to file. But now the extradition dilemma is real. Odd move by the Trump admin.
Unless they're hoping to split the court of public opinion and bollocks up the legal process, for unguessable reasons.
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Old Today, 08:47 AM   #1116
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Unless they're hoping to split the court of public opinion and bollocks up the legal process, for unguessable reasons. ; )
Or they're just incompetent jackasses. I'd say it'd be an odd move for other admins, but I think the competence of other admins is probably overrated
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Old Today, 08:52 AM   #1117
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Possibly the new charges are precautionary then. They can always drop them later and even possibly use the offer to do so part of a bargaining/threatening process but they have to have them on file before the cutoff.
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Unless they're hoping to split the court of public opinion and bollocks up the legal process, for unguessable reasons.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or they're just incompetent jackasses. I'd say it'd be an odd move for other admins, but I think the competence of other admins is probably overrated
All true, but isn't playing the espionage card shooting themselves in the foot, extradition-wise? Gives Sweden and the UK solid grounds to refuse rendition.
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Old Today, 08:56 AM   #1118
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
All true, but isn't playing the espionage card shooting themselves in the foot, extradition-wise? Gives Sweden and the UK solid grounds to refuse rendition.
Like I said...
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Old Today, 09:06 AM   #1119
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Like I said...
Right, but they are not actually stone stupid. They are executives and legal professionals. They know the procedures. Surely there is at least a theory how this would work to their advantage? The only thing I can come up with is a back room agreement with the UK to hand him over, but that seems kind of comic book.

Eta: there are off-record negotiations of course. Ecuador, the UK and US all seem to have known exactly when Ecuador was pulling asylum and were ready to pounce. Deals get made, but laws get followed, too
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Old Today, 09:47 AM   #1120
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Assange would probably have done better to have taken refuge in the Russian Embassy. The problem in the Assange case, as I see it, is that there has been a gradual erosion in the respect for international law over the years by countries like America and Britain, and dare I say even Israel.
Is that yoiur opinion as an self-professed "amatuer lawyer" or as a dedicated criminal fanboy?
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