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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:07 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I tsk-tsk punching because punching causes pain and injury. Egging does not; so I don't have the same problem with it. I don't know why you think this reasoning is inconsistent.
Sure, sure. Hey, a slap doesn't cause pain or injury either. You know, just a little punch doesn't do any real damage...especially if it's in only one eye. One step at a time. You already made the leap that anyone who is a mousy little white supremacist like the OP clown is literally Hitler and wants to gas and murder millions. And so you've taken that all-important first step of rationalizing petty assault. Good for you. The next hurdle is a little tougher, though. It's the one where you have to be honest about it and OWN THAT ****.

There's nothing inconsistent with your reasoning. It's just dishonest.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:11 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Are we too many generations beyond WW II to remember what these symbols stood for? Have they been reformed and normalised?
Yes. They are not brownshirts. Swastikas are a symbol of white power punks. Hell, Miki Dora wore one, as a lot of people do for their shock value. These guys are not the gassing reich nazis. They're just white guys with penis problems. Don't make them so much more than they are. They're just losers.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:27 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This time in New York:

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In an extended video which can be found online, he tries to get his flag back (I can't tell whether he succeeds or not) and gets pelted with several more eggs in the meantime before finally running off.

Compared to punching Nazis which although funny to watch is difficult for me to condone, egging is a non-violent, non-injurious, and equally funny way for the public to express what they truly think of nazism and those who espouse it.
Yeah political violence is very nice and fun when it's against people you happen to disagree with, isn't it?

The mature way to express disapproval of one's political opponents is with words, certainly not with punches or eggs. Then you'd be acting like a thug and we don't need to encourage thuggery, even if it's against "acceptable victims".
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:32 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes. They are not brownshirts. Swastikas are a symbol of white power punks. Hell, Miki Dora wore one, as a lot of people do for their shock value. These guys are not the gassing reich nazis. They're just white guys with penis problems. Don't make them so much more than they are. They're just losers.
That’s a yes to the symbols being rehabilitated?

Not gassing just flaunting the symbols of people who committed genocide? Get real. These are symbols of white supremacy and extremism. This is a growing trend in societies who have forgotten the lessons of the past.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:34 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah political violence is very nice and fun when it's against people you happen to disagree with, isn't it?

The mature way to express disapproval of one's political opponents is with words, certainly not with punches or eggs. Then you'd be acting like a thug and we don't need to encourage thuggery, even if it's against "acceptable victims".
People who you happen to disagree with who happen to flaunt genocide symbols and white supremacy minority hate messages.

“People you happen to disagree with” is an utterly dishonest framing that trivialises what is being opposed.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:43 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
That’s a yes to the symbols being rehabilitated?

Not gassing just flaunting the symbols of people who committed genocide? Get real. These are symbols of white supremacy and extremism. This is a growing trend in societies who have forgotten the lessons of the past.
There's a line in there between the all-talk poser and the mass killer. It's a very broad line. This guy in the OP looks solidly on the all-talk side of it. I don't equate this type with mass murderers. Wearing some cheap bling from Amazon does not a monster make.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:55 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
There's a line in there between the all-talk poser and the mass killer. It's a very broad line. This guy in the OP looks solidly on the all-talk side of it. I don't equate this type with mass murderers. Wearing some cheap bling from Amazon does not a monster make.
It makes him a person who is emboldened to wear the symbols of white supremacy inspired genocide. White supremacy is an idea that has been fertilised and emboldened. This individual may not pose a danger* but it is from this ground that the nuts with the guns spring. This kind of hate should not be normalised.


* Your judgment of his potential only passes muster on the laws of probability for this type. You have no idea what he is capable of but he does share some of the ideology of white supremacy terrorists.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 06:56 PM   #88
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Thermal, you said it in a previous post - rationalizing. This thread is a perfect example of it.

Man injured by egging is "grateful" egg didn't hit daughter


https://ktvl.com/news/local/man-inju...t-hit-daughter

Quote:
Hlavinka says he was carrying his daughter home when a truck pulled up beside him and threw an object at him. He touched his eye and discovered running yolk and egg shells wedged in his eye.

...

Hlavinka is suffering a subconjunctival hemorrhage in his right eye because of the assault. He's grateful that his daughter he was holding was not hit.
How could anyone think you can't get injured by an egg in the face? Let me throw one at you full force and find out. Gawd some people are just stupid.

Pretty soon it'll be okay for conservatives to get egged because, well everyone says Trump is a Nazi so anyone who votes for him is a legit target.

Pathetic display here folks. Way too much emotion and asterisks, not enough actual thought.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:02 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Thermal, you said it in a previous post - rationalizing. This thread is a perfect example of it.

Man injured by egging is "grateful" egg didn't hit daughter


https://ktvl.com/news/local/man-inju...t-hit-daughter


How could anyone think you can't get injured by an egg in the face? Let me throw one at you full force and find out. Gawd some people are just stupid.

Pretty soon it'll be okay for conservatives to get egged because, well everyone says Trump is a Nazi so anyone who votes for him is a legit target.

Pathetic display here folks. Way too much emotion and asterisks, not enough actual thought.
Nice slippery slope.

What level of emotion is suitable in response to people being emboldened enough to wear the symbols of genocide in American streets?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:34 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
It makes him a person who is emboldened to wear the symbols of white supremacy inspired genocide. White supremacy is an idea that has been fertilised and emboldened. This individual may not pose a danger* but it is from this ground that the nuts with the guns spring. This kind of hate should not be normalised.
Agreed. Not normalized, not accepted. Openly ridicule him. Debate him like the people in the vid if you want to waste some time. What I am saying is that justifying assault is a big step; logically, legally, and morally. You want to take that step? Vaya con dios. But you've stepped to the other side of decency. Own it, without excuses, is all I ask.


Quote:
* Your judgment of his potential only passes muster on the laws of probability for this type. You have no idea what he is capable of but he does share some of the ideology of white supremacy terrorists.
True enough. He could be capable of anything. Maybe we should put him down, you know...just in case.

I don't think I'm relying on probability, here. I'm relying on observation. The guy was a chatterbox, not a skull crusher. Trying to intellectualize his position. You'll note that in the video, he just talked and argued. He threatened no one. He assaulted no one...till he was hit, then he went after the guy who did it (with premeditation). Can't blame him there. But face facts on this one: slimy though his views might be, his actions were peaceful. But he was the victim. And posters here are cheering.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:38 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The mature way to express disapproval of one's political opponents is with words, certainly not with punches or eggs. Then you'd be acting like a thug and we don't need to encourage thuggery, even if it's against "acceptable victims".
If - hypothetically speaking - I were to advocate that every member of this forum kill any self-styled nazi wherever they may find them, (the more painful, the better), would that be acceptable? It's just words.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:38 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Not normalized, not accepted. Openly ridicule him. Debate him like the people in the vid if you want to waste some time. What I am saying is that justifying assault is a big step; logically, legally, and morally. You want to take that step? Vaya con dios. But you've stepped to the other side of decency. Own it, without excuses, is all I ask.




True enough. He could be capable of anything. Maybe we should put him down, you know...just in case.

I don't think I'm relying on probability, here. I'm relying on observation. The guy was a chatterbox, not a skull crusher. Trying to intellectualize his position. You'll note that in the video, he just talked and argued. He threatened no one. He assaulted no one...till he was hit, then he went after the guy who did it (with premeditation). Can't blame him there. But face facts on this one: slimy though his views might be, his actions were peaceful. But he was the victim. And posters here are cheering.
I picked you as better than this type of dishonest debating.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:44 PM   #93
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You may argue that egging someone is an act of violence however the intention is not to cause physical harm but rather humiliation to the victim.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:48 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Thermal, you said it in a previous post - rationalizing. This thread is a perfect example of it.

Man injured by egging is "grateful" egg didn't hit daughter


https://ktvl.com/news/local/man-inju...t-hit-daughter
Well, that didn't take long, did it? Couple eggs on tv and here we are already. I wonder how our brave eggers are feeling about their newyuck-yuck non-violent protesting technique?

Quote:
How could anyone think you can't get injured by an egg in the face? Let me throw one at you full force and find out. Gawd some people are just stupid.
Preach. I think you have to get hit once in a while to appreciate what getting hit is all about.

Quote:
Pretty soon it'll be okay for conservatives to get egged because, well everyone says Trump is a Nazi so anyone who votes for him is a legit target.

Pathetic display here folks. Way too much emotion and asterisks, not enough actual thought.
Truth. It's easy-peasy to talk about how cool it is to throw eggs at people. It's so edgy! I was taught that the way you tell the good guys from the bad guys is by who resorts to such tactics. Again, if you are embracing a new lifestyle where (generic) you are the 'rouge outlaw who lives by his own code', then great. Live it up. Check your self-righteous halo at the door, tho.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 07:55 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I picked you as better than this type of dishonest debating.
I think I'm being perfectly honest, and expecting others to reply in kind. I don't find this rationalizing of assault (while simultaneously claiming moral high ground) particularly honest. If it's not coming across that way, I apologize for lack of clarity.

(eta: regarding your hilite, please excuse my hyperbole. i'm prone to it)

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You may argue that egging someone is an act of violence however the intention is not to cause physical harm but rather humiliation to the victim.
One can argue that. One could argue the same thing about a pimp slap, or pantsing, or a host of other minor assaults to someone's person. But the line has always been between talk and action against another. Posters here have slid over that line. Is it fair to sound the alarm in the hopes that some might think 'as good as it might feel, it's still wrong to do this'?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:03 PM   #96
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Back of the head as demonstrated in this current example seems a fairly safe technique. However as throw distance is increased so does the risk of the target turning and eye damage. Perhaps the safest approach is crushing the egg directly on the head using your palm as a young protester did against Australian white supremist politician Fraser Anning.

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I AGREE


However white supremists, who seem to offen suffer from self esteem issues, will take this badly and more easily strike back at close-range assaults on their dignity.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:08 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Sure, sure. Hey, a slap doesn't cause pain or injury either.
What? Yes it does. Causing pain is the entire point of striking someone by hand. This is the silliest analogy I've seen you make yet.

Tell me none of these people are experiencing pain:

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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:10 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
How could anyone think you can't get injured by an egg in the face? Let me throw one at you full force and find out. Gawd some people are just stupid.
No Nazis thus far have been "egged in the face at full force".

Obviously any object thrown from a moving vehicle presents a danger of injury, including things that would not otherwise injure someone when tossed by hand without that much momentum - such as an egg. Certainly I do not condone throwing any object at anyone from a moving vehicle - or people on foot throwing an object into a moving vehicle, as this produces the same force multiplication against the vehicle occupants.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:13 PM   #99
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I've said before and I'll say it again. Those who claim Bush/Trump/insert politician here are Nazis are not minimizing the evil of the real (1930s-1940s) Nazis, or trying to maximize the supposed evil of the politicians they hate. They are trying to puff themselves up into the equivalent of the White Rose Society back in Nazi Germany (who were beheaded for their efforts). So too it is with the antifa clowns and those who talk bravely about how they'd punch a Nazi on the street.

It's pathetic, really, almost as pathetic as the current crop of Nazi wannabes.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:15 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Back of the head as demonstrated in this current example seems a fairly safe technique. However as throw distance is increased so does the risk of the target turning and eye damage. Perhaps the safest approach is crushing the egg directly on the head using your palm as a young protester did against Australian white supremist politician Fraser Anning.

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I AGREE


However white supremists, who seem to offen suffer from self esteem issues, will take this badly and more easily strike back at close-range assaults on their dignity.
You know who else fights back? People who get assaulted. What happens when these edgelord eggers runs up against somebody with some reflexes, who feels something broken on his head and breaks the kid's fingers? Still a big yuk-yuk?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:15 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think I'm being perfectly honest, and expecting others to reply in kind. I don't find this rationalizing of assault (while simultaneously claiming moral high ground) particularly honest. If it's not coming across that way, I apologize for lack of clarity.

(eta: regarding your hilite, please excuse my hyperbole. i'm prone to it)



One can argue that. One could argue the same thing about a pimp slap, or pantsing, or a host of other minor assaults to someone's person. But the line has always been between talk and action against another. Posters here have slid over that line. Is it fair to sound the alarm in the hopes that some might think 'as good as it might feel, it's still wrong to do this'?
What sort of punishment should be meted out to someone who eggs someone?

I do believe someone who eggs someone should not be excepted from punishment. However I believe people who do not put their victim at risk of eye damage have committed a trivial offence.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:18 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
What? Yes it does. Causing pain is the entire point of striking someone by hand. This is the silliest analogy I've seen you make yet.

Tell me none of these people are experiencing pain:

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I AGREE
Without taxing you too hard, maybe you could tell me if the guy posted upthread who was hit with an egg and sustained eye injuries felt some pain? Maybe a little? Although...and you know it's coming...it was only one eye.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:18 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You know who else fights back? People who get assaulted. What happens when these edgelord eggers runs up against somebody with some reflexes, who feels something broken on his head and breaks the kid's fingers? Still a big yuk-yuk?
Its a big yuk yuk because a nasty white supremist flaunting a symbols of genocide and race hate ends up with egg on him. If the nazi response is disproportionate then they should face legal repercussions also.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:22 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
What sort of punishment should be meted out to someone who eggs someone?

I do believe someone who eggs someone should not be excepted from punishment. However I believe people who do not put their victim at risk of eye damage this is a trivial offence.
Agreed. It's no capital crime. And I admit I would likely laugh, if no one was hurt. And I would know I was wrong for doing so. No rationalizing, and no excuses about how it was not a minor assault. It was.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:22 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Without taxing you too hard, maybe you could tell me if the guy posted upthread who was hit with an egg and sustained eye injuries felt some pain? Maybe a little? Although...and you know it's coming...it was only one eye.
Addressed in my last post.

If while looking at the video of the egging posted in this thread, and the one of the Australian politician, you want to sit there and assert the recipients of those eggs were in any danger of an injury like the one in that article, you have an awful lot of nerve proclaiming indignation at anyone else's dishonesty.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:23 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I've said before and I'll say it again. Those who claim Bush/Trump/insert politician here are Nazis are not minimizing the evil of the real (1930s-1940s) Nazis, or trying to maximize the supposed evil of the politicians they hate. They are trying to puff themselves up into the equivalent of the White Rose Society back in Nazi Germany (who were beheaded for their efforts). So too it is with the antifa clowns and those who talk bravely about how they'd punch a Nazi on the street.

It's pathetic, really, almost as pathetic as the current crop of Nazi wannabes.
Trump isnt a Nazi. He just espouses ideas/drives policies that are pro white Christian America and discriminate against Muslims, blacks and Mexicans. No surprise they vote for him.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:26 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You may argue that egging someone is an act of violence however the intention is not to cause physical harm but rather humiliation to the victim.
We'll call them Like Crimes.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:32 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. It's no capital crime. And I admit I would likely laugh, if no one was hurt. And I would know I was wrong for doing so. No rationalizing, and no excuses about how it was not a minor assault. It was.
It can be done in a way that minimises risk and retains the humiliation value.

How about this milkshake attack on a *Nazi?
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

A full risk assessment would certainly factor in the straw and the risk of eye damage.

* ETA: More accurately- Islamophobe
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:33 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Its a big yuk yuk because a nasty white supremist flaunting a symbols of genocide and race hate ends up with egg on him. If the nazi response is disproportionate then they should face legal repercussions also.
Ok: a kid thinks I'm a proud boy or something because I'm wearing a white polo that my wife make me wear. Slaps an egg on my head from behind me. If I feel something hard and sharp break on my head, and feel liquid running, I'm not stopping to analyze any further. I'm assuming a bottle was broken over my head. The kid is getting at least his fingers broken if they are still in reach.

That's not such a far-fetched scenario. There were some antifa in (I think) Oregon who attacked the wrong guy a while back. Assault, even if you think it is a yuk, is a potentially serious game, that our brave eggers may not be ready to play out. The most dangerous kind of assault is a half-assed one. your victim may not respond half-assed.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:33 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
We'll call them Like Crimes.
Anti-hate crimes?
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:36 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok: a kid thinks I'm a proud boy or something because I'm wearing a white polo that my wife make me wear. Slaps an egg on my head from behind me. If I feel something hard and sharp break on my head, and feel liquid running, I'm not stopping to analyze any further. I'm assuming a bottle was broken over my head. The kid is getting at least his fingers broken if they are still in reach.

That's not such a far-fetched scenario. There were some antifa in (I think) Oregon who attacked the wrong guy a while back. Assault, even if you think it is a yuk, is a potentially serious game, that our brave eggers may not be ready to play out. The most dangerous kind of assault is a half-assed one. your victim may not respond half-assed.
A white polo? With a swastika or are we playing slippery slope again?

Agree that engaging in this kind of protest carries a fair risk of physical battery. You might even get shot in America.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:43 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok: a kid thinks I'm a proud boy or something because I'm wearing a white polo that my wife make me wear. Slaps an egg on my head from behind me. If I feel something hard and sharp break on my head, and feel liquid running, I'm not stopping to analyze any further. I'm assuming a bottle was broken over my head.
Have you ever had an egg slapped on the back of your head by someone?

I have. When I was 8. I heard it crack, but I didn't feel the egg. I didn't feel anything sharp, or hard. I didn't even know that it was anything but a slap until I saw the shell pieces and egg white drizzling onto my shoulders.

You're not going to mistake it for a bottle unless you're an idiot. And you're not.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:46 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Have you ever had an egg slapped on the back of your head by someone?

I have. When I was 8. I heard it crack, but I didn't feel the egg. I didn't feel anything sharp, or hard. I didn't even know what it was until I saw the shell pieces and egg white drizzling onto my shoulders.

You're not going to mistake it for a bottle unless you're an idiot. And you're not.
As an aside, did you ever also have someone do that imitation of the feel of an egg breaking on your head with their hands? Was a thing when I was at school.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:48 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Addressed in my last post.
Lamely, yes.

You proposed a high-speed truck-launched booster egg. No. Eggshells are sharp and will cut an eyeball even without your theorized turbo boost. This is not freaking rocket science.

Also, you didn't address the question. I asked you if you thought it might hurt to get an egg thrown in your eye that cut it up. I think it would, even without your ninja truck launcher hypothesis. Getting hit with sharp things in the eye hurts. It's not a yuk-em-up joke. I can't believe I am explaining this to an adult.

Quote:
If while looking at the video of the egging posted in this thread, and the one of the Australian politician, you want to sit there and assert the recipients of those eggs were in any danger of an injury like the one in that article, you have an awful lot of nerve proclaiming indignation at anyone else's dishonesty.
*as slowly as possible*

What I am asking you, Checkmite....is whether you realize that even minor assaults can go very wrong and should not be so heartily endorsed as appropriate as you are doing. I'd love to sit here and laugh about it. But watching the vid you posted got me thinking about how badly these things can go and how quickly. Your glib cheering should be reserved for actions taken which are not actual crimes. Or if you want to cheer them anyway, own it. You're switching teams.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:49 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
As an aside, did you ever also have someone do that imitation of the feel of an egg breaking on your head with their hands? Was a thing when I was at school.
Yeah, when I was little there was this weird chanting game that had you covering your eyes while someone did that, among other things; I dimly remember it.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 08:57 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
A white polo? With a swastika or are we playing slippery slope again?
(Off topic but relevant: when the white polo thing first became widely known, my wife had already bought me a Tommy Hilfinger white polo to wear for a matching-outfit group family picture while we were on vacation. Everyone was wearing blue pants and white shirts. I switched to a white t-shirt and she is pissed to this day)

Quote:
Agree that engaging in this kind of protest carries a fair risk of physical battery. You might even get shot in America.
Agreed. If everyone is in it consensually, I'll get the popcorn. I don't support it as heartily when it is a blindside.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 09:03 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Have you ever had an egg slapped on the back of your head by someone?

I have. When I was 8. I heard it crack, but I didn't feel the egg. I didn't feel anything sharp, or hard. I didn't even know that it was anything but a slap until I saw the shell pieces and egg white drizzling onto my shoulders.

You're not going to mistake it for a bottle unless you're an idiot. And you're not.
In fairness, yes, I have been in full-on egg fights when I was little. I'm older now, and crankier, and a hell of a lot more likely to hit if caught off guard. Without stopping to scrutinize who has attacked me. A lot of us are like this. Old dogs who bite faster than puppies.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 09:04 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What I am asking you, Checkmite....is whether you realize that even minor assaults can go very wrong and should not be so heartily endorsed as appropriate as you are doing.
Do you genuinely believe I'm incapable of analyzing incidents on a case-by-case basis; of realizing that a "prank" can be mild and funny and harmless when done this way, but not that way? That if I am okay with someone cracking an egg over a Nazi's head as a means of mocking him in these instances, that means I must endorse absolutely anything that anyone could ever possibly do with an egg, no matter how "badly" it goes? Do you not believe in the existence of nuance at all, or do you just think I'm not intelligent enough to discern it and need to be "taught" about it?

No. I don't think laughing about what the fellow did in that video means it would be hypocritical of me to condemn someone for risking serious injury by forcefully pitching an egg into someone's eye-socket. I can do both with a clear conscience. Slide-tackle = good; tripping or spiking someone's shin = bad.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 09:05 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yeah, when I was little there was this weird chanting game that had you covering your eyes while someone did that, among other things; I dimly remember it.
Now that you mention it, I remember something along those lines to, but I forget how it went.
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Old 2nd May 2019, 09:09 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
(Off topic but relevant: when the white polo thing first became widely known, my wife had already bought me a Tommy Hilfinger white polo to wear for a matching-outfit group family picture while we were on vacation. Everyone was wearing blue pants and white shirts. I switched to a white t-shirt and she is pissed to this day)



Agreed. If everyone is in it consensually, I'll get the popcorn. I don't support it as heartily when it is a blindside.
How do you feel about the Tommy Robinson milkshakes?
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