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Old 6th May 2019, 05:58 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That could be my mistake; his tactic until recently was to suddenly appear unannounced at his selected venues as a surprise opening act of whatever the actual headline was, in order to avoid "organized hecklers". It might be the case that he's begun actually announcing his tour dates and locations now.
The links have dates and times and the venue’s address. It isn’t going to be a surprise so at least this time Louie’s not going to be foisted on anyone unexpectedly. I am pretty sure the rules are there because he knows that some people will show up to hate-watch him, tell the jokes on social media and get very outraged by them. Then when they have circulated long and hard and been the subject of outraged editorials the material will be useless for his special. You can blame capitalism if you like, and you can disagree that comedy is an art form or that it ought to break taboos etc... but I don’t see the point in doubting the rather obvious reasons why he is doing this.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:05 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Washed up comedian tries despertly to revive his dying career.
That makes sense as knee-jerk cynicism, but it makes no sense as analysis.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He wasn't washed up.
Unless sold out shows are now the gold standard for "washed up."
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I thought he also "demanded consent" from the women he got to watch him masturbate? That's from memory - I'm afraid I can't bring myself to search through news stories about it all to verify.
Yup. The hypocrisy is the other way, people insisting on consent and then dumping on CK when he insists on consent.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I am pretty sure the rules are there because he knows that some people will show up to hate-watch him, tell the jokes on social media and get very outraged by them.
That's what I've been saying this entire thread.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:50 PM   #46
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Louis is a talented comedian. He says horrible/absurd things to make people laugh.
He doesn’t actually believe or support what he jokes about.

Why do people have such a hard time grasping this?
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:12 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Louis is a talented comedian. He says horrible/absurd things to make people laugh.
He doesn’t actually believe or support what he jokes about.

Why do people have such a hard time grasping this?
Because psychic mind-reading powers aren't real, the best evidence we have for what a person believes is what they express with their own speech.

If they then go on to say something contradictory in another context, or third-party information is available that positively indicates they are either lying about their feelings during their comedy sets, or playing a character a la Stephen Colbert, then there's reason to start considering the "Alex Jones defense".

At the moment, I'm unaware of any such evidence arguing that CK is not expressing a genuine opinion when he gives topical commentary during his sets. Anyone who has links can post them of course.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Louis is a talented comedian. He says horrible/absurd things to make people laugh.
He doesn’t actually believe or support what he jokes about.

Why do people have such a hard time grasping this?


Probably because a stand-up comedian appears on-stage as themselves. If I tell a racist joke in real life, I’m going to be judged for it even if it’s “just jokes.“ It’s hard to separate the real thoughts and feelings of a person from the things they choose to say in public.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:51 PM   #49
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No, he didn't surprise show at the open-mic night tonight. But there was enough offensiveness to go around, along with a dose of genuinely funny stuff. Turns out most of the comics are people I've seen there before. Seems like lots of angry or ****** up people in that group.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Louis is a talented comedian. He says horrible/absurd things to make people laugh.
He doesn’t actually believe or support what he jokes about.

Why do people have such a hard time grasping this?
Most people do grasp this. He had a stellar career doing standup, even when he was telling edgy (and over the edge) jokes and stories. He got away with joking about the joys of pedophilia as a guest host on Saturday Night Live. What has tanked his career is the revelation of his sordid real-life behavior with numerous real-life young women.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:09 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Because psychic mind-reading powers aren't real, the best evidence we have for what a person believes is what they express with their own speech.

If they then go on to say something contradictory in another context, or third-party information is available that positively indicates they are either lying about their feelings during their comedy sets, or playing a character a la Stephen Colbert, then there's reason to start considering the "Alex Jones defense".

At the moment, I'm unaware of any such evidence arguing that CK is not expressing a genuine opinion when he gives topical commentary during his sets. Anyone who has links can post them of course.
You have no clue what comedy is about.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:33 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Because psychic mind-reading powers aren't real, the best evidence we have for what a person believes is what they express with their own speech.

If they then go on to say something contradictory in another context, or third-party information is available that positively indicates they are either lying about their feelings during their comedy sets, or playing a character a la Stephen Colbert, then there's reason to start considering the "Alex Jones defense".

At the moment, I'm unaware of any such evidence arguing that CK is not expressing a genuine opinion when he gives topical commentary during his sets. Anyone who has links can post them of course.
Seriously? You think what a comedian says in their act is a reflection on what they truly think as a person?

I guess actors are exactly the same as the people they portray on stage or film.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That's what I've been saying this entire thread.
No, you have been assuming that he will pop up unannounced, tell his outrageous material to an unsuspecting audience and then warn them that repeating anything he says will be met with a lawsuit.

That's not true, because he is announcing when and where these "surprise dates" will be and even limiting ticket sales to 4 people at a time.

Clearly he is worried about leaking material, and not because someone might say, "There I was hoping to see Jim Gaffigan talking about how cuh-razy it is to go bowling, and then who pops up but Louis CK who flew into a blizzard of masturbation jokes...!"

No, the people going will be expecting masturbation jokes either because they are fans, who might record the show and share it online (as has happened before!), or they might share the jokes in text (as has happened before!). Whether they do that because they are fans or critics seems irrelevant because either way it would ruin his specials and that seems to be the most obvious thing to me that he would want to avoid. He knows that both fans and enemies are likely to share the material so he is making it clear not to.

Besides, I don't think it will stop critics being critics. The rules are not that his act cannot even be described. If someone says, "I can't believe how dirty this guy's set was...would you believe he went on and on about masturbation all night...!" they will not have said anything that can result in a lawsuit. If they said, "He then said, 'I got friendzoned the other day, or should I say, I got spontaneous jerk-off zoned...'" and it happened to be exact words from his set then yes, apparently that might be in breach of the conditions he has specified.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:05 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
You have no clue what comedy is about.
Neither apparently does professional comedian John Oliver, whose entire routine is making his audience laugh by taking issues he feels strongly about and giving his genuine opinions of them while making topical jokes.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I guess actors are exactly the same as the people they portray on stage or film.
When William Shatner gets in front of a camera and plays Captain Kirk, you can tell he's not "portraying himself" because the character's name is Captain Kirk, not William Shatner. He also lives on a spaceship in outer space 200 years in the future. So yeah, it's pretty clearly not "exactly the same" in such a case.

When a guy named George Carlin gets up on stage and says "I'm George Carlin and this is what I think about...", he's typically giving you his honest opinion. On his standup album Class Clown, when he rails against the Vietnam War, that's not some meta-character named George Carlin that the comedian is portraying. He's telling you exactly what he, as a person, thinks.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:20 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Neither apparently does professional comedian John Oliver, whose entire routine is making his audience laugh by taking issues he feels strongly about and giving his genuine opinions of them while making topical jokes.
Apparently John Oliver is the one and only comedian, with the one and only approved comedy formula, according to the one and only internet forum dude, Checkmite.
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:18 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Apparently John Oliver is the one and only comedian, with the one and only approved comedy formula, according to the one and only internet forum dude, Checkmite.
That different comedy styles exist isn't something I have to be told. That's more along the lines of something somebody who says something like

Quote:
Seriously? You think what a comedian says in their act is a reflection on what they truly think as a person?
or

Quote:
You have no clue what comedy is about.
...needs to learn. Because yes, being a comedian doesn't mean by default that you're playing a character and none of the political positions you take during a standup routine are genuine; in fact, some of the most famous comedians made their very names and reputations giving genuine opinions framed in a humorous way.

If you go back to what I said earlier; you'll notice that at the very beginning I already acknowledged that some comedians can be playing characters:

Quote:
If they then go on to say something contradictory in another context, or third-party information is available that positively indicates they are either lying about their feelings during their comedy sets, or playing a character a la Stephen Colbert, then there's reason to start considering the "Alex Jones defense".
The point is, there needs to be some evidence, or otherwise a compelling reason to believe they're "playing a character". Spoiler alert: "But....they're....COMEDIANS! No comedian says what they really think - that's not what comedy is about!" is flat-out wrong, and therefore not sufficient evidence.
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:20 AM   #58
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Comedians spend a A LOT of time writing material, then testing this material in small venues, scrapping what doesn't work, reworking the material, in a process that takes six month to a year per show.

I think it is perfectly rational that they demand the shows are not recorded and shared. It's like walking into the editing room where people are working on a yet unreleased film, recording the unfinished product on your smartphone and sharing it on Youtube.

You are spoiling it for the audience, depriving the artist of presenting a finished product and lastly stealing from everyone involved in the production and distribution of the show. From the comedian down to the camera-person and sound engineer.

Unreleased material is unreleased for a reason, as anyone who's ever bought a 'bootleg' album can attest to. Do you think Tupac and Jimi Hendrix would be happy with all the half-baked experimenting that got released after their deaths and added to their legacy?
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Because psychic mind-reading powers aren't real, the best evidence we have for what a person believes is what they express with their own speech.

If they then go on to say something contradictory in another context, or third-party information is available that positively indicates they are either lying about their feelings during their comedy sets, or playing a character a la Stephen Colbert, then there's reason to start considering the "Alex Jones defense".

At the moment, I'm unaware of any such evidence arguing that CK is not expressing a genuine opinion when he gives topical commentary during his sets. Anyone who has links can post them of course.
I think Louis CK once said that he hates deer so much he would like to **** a man with AIDS just so he could get AIDS and then **** a deer to give the deer AIDS. Do I need mind-reading skills to know whether he is being serious or just joking?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th May 2019, 04:18 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Neither apparently does professional comedian John Oliver, whose entire routine is making his audience laugh by taking issues he feels strongly about and giving his genuine opinions of them while making topical jokes.
I guess you’d say the same about the Colbert Report?

There are many ways to make people laugh.
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Old 7th May 2019, 04:32 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Probably because a stand-up comedian appears on-stage as themselves. If I tell a racist joke in real life, I’m going to be judged for it even if it’s “just jokes.“ It’s hard to separate the real thoughts and feelings of a person from the things they choose to say in public.
Notice how to make this analogy you immediately have to jump to a non performance setting and then also have to rely on the ultimate social faux pas “racist” joke, which is widely not considered appropriate in any context, in order to make your point. Louis doesn’t tell those jokes and that’s not at issue here.

Also, do you think that when someone makes “Dead Baby” jokes that they truly enjoy dead babies?
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Old 7th May 2019, 04:52 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
I guess you’d say the same about the Colbert Report?

There are many ways to make people laugh.
Are you implying Colbert is not really a Fox News show host?

My life has been a lie!
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:18 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Also, do you think that when someone makes “Dead Baby” jokes that they truly enjoy dead babies?
If they have been in the news after being found to have raided the funeral home and stolen the remains of several babies then yes. That's the issue here, not that Louis CK makes dirty jokes but that he behaves like a sex creep AND makes dirty jokes. I can make murder jokes because I've never actually murdered anybody and nobody has reason to think I have. OJ telling murder jokes would go down a bit differently.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:44 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If they have been in the news after being found to have raided the funeral home and stolen the remains of several babies then yes. That's the issue here, not that Louis CK makes dirty jokes but that he behaves like a sex creep AND makes dirty jokes. I can make murder jokes because I've never actually murdered anybody and nobody has reason to think I have. OJ telling murder jokes would go down a bit differently.
That depends; here's Mike Tyson making a joke about biting off Holyfield's ear.

I'd argue that if Mike Tyson didn't have personal experience in this particular field, the joke would not even have worked.

CK's whole schtick is deeply self depreciating humor and probably a degree of genuine self hatred. I don's think he's going to give a proud speech about the joys of whipping out his private parts in front of women.

Richard Pryor joked about setting himself on fire while on drugs. Modern comedy can be painful and personal. It wasn't always that way, but then we got a guy in a tuxedo telling mother-in-law jokes.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:47 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If they have been in the news after being found to have raided the funeral home and stolen the remains of several babies then yes. That's the issue here, not that Louis CK makes dirty jokes but that he behaves like a sex creep AND makes dirty jokes. I can make murder jokes because I've never actually murdered anybody and nobody has reason to think I have. OJ telling murder jokes would go down a bit differently.
The biggest complaint I’ve heard about his latest performances had to do with making Parkland Shooting jokes. Which, of course, don’t have anything to do with wanking in front of others. From what I gather he has made efforts to not touch on that topic. So realistically people are just trying to impose a lifetime sentence on the guy for transgressions that, while certainly not appropriate I agree, shouldn't result in permanent banishment. He tells sick jokes. That’s what he does. He’s a flawed human but he’s not OJ for chrissakes.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:53 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
The biggest complaint I’ve heard about his latest performances had to do with making Parkland Shooting jokes. Which, of course, don’t have anything to do with wanking in front of others. From what I gather he has made efforts to not touch on that topic. So realistically people are just trying to impose a lifetime sentence on the guy for transgressions that, while certainly not appropriate I agree, shouldn't result in permanent banishment. He tells sick jokes. That’s what he does. He’s a flawed human but he’s not OJ for chrissakes.
That makes it sound like he's asking for special treatment: he can joke about any taboo topic but please let's all stay politely silent about his own creepy behavior.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:54 AM   #67
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Contrast to Jimmy Carr, who regularly gets roasted by jokes about his tax evasion on his own shows.
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:02 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
The biggest complaint I’ve heard about his latest performances had to do with making Parkland Shooting jokes. Which, of course, don’t have anything to do with wanking in front of others. From what I gather he has made efforts to not touch on that topic. So realistically people are just trying to impose a lifetime sentence on the guy for transgressions that, while certainly not appropriate I agree, shouldn't result in permanent banishment. He tells sick jokes. That’s what he does. He’s a flawed human but he’s not OJ for chrissakes.
But what happens if people go to his shows and *gasp* enjoy themselves (I nearly said “pleasure”). What would happen then?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:03 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That makes it sound like he's asking for special treatment: he can joke about any taboo topic but please let's all stay politely silent about his own creepy behavior.
I don’t think anyone has to remain silent about his creepy behavior. Really, he has no way of stopping that from happening. All you have to do is make jokes about it as Frankie Boyle has done recently.
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:36 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Because yes, being a comedian doesn't mean by default that you're playing a character and none of the political positions you take during a standup routine are genuine; in fact, some of the most famous comedians made their very names and reputations giving genuine opinions framed in a humorous way.
Being a comedian means that you are telling jokes to make people laugh and are not expressing your actual beliefs on any topic. Unless you think Jimmy Carr really thinks Susie Dent visits glory holes and wants to **** your mom.
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:45 AM   #71
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I'm pretty sure comedy can include both airing of genuine opinions and just joking as a character.
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Old 7th May 2019, 07:10 AM   #72
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I have to wonder why the show is advertised as "XXX" for adults. Does he plan to whip it out on stage? I'll report on any reviews I can find tomorrow. If it's extreme enough, it'll probably make the national news anyway.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Notice how to make this analogy you immediately have to jump to a non performance setting and then also have to rely on the ultimate social faux pas “racist” joke, which is widely not considered appropriate in any context, in order to make your point. Louis doesn’t tell those jokes and that’s not at issue here.



Also, do you think that when someone makes “Dead Baby” jokes that they truly enjoy dead babies?


You misunderstand. The question was, “why can’t people grasp this?” I’m simply answering the question. The line between person/performer is not very clear in comedy and some people don’t distinguish at all.

As for my own personal thoughts on the matter, I know they are performing. However, what they choose to write about and perform reflects, to a greater or lesser degree with each comedian and their style, their actual personality. If a person chooses to tell dead baby jokes, I don’t think they actually like dead babies. But it does tell me that they have a morbid sense of humor and that reflects on them as a person.

As far as racial jokes, they are widely used by comedians. Race is a taboo subject, sure, but many comedians mine taboo subjects for their comedy and Louis C.K. is one of them. He is well known for saying the n-word. One of his most popular bits is how he is offended by the phrase, “the n-word,” not the actual word, which he then uses freely.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:59 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I have to wonder why the show is advertised as "XXX" for adults. Does he plan to whip it out on stage?
Love to see the NDA on that performance.
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:34 AM   #75
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We accept that it's reasonable for music concert halls to not allow us to film/distribute any of the music being performed. Why are we so reluctant to accept the same from comedians?
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:50 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I’ve always had the idea that I would be a comedian but a “covers” comedian, doing all the best jokes written by other, real comedians. It works for covers bands...
To some extent, most comedians are 'covers' comedians, unless they have 100% their own material.

However, I was slightly surprised to discover that there are in fact 'tribute' comedians, performing as a more famous act (the same way as tribute bands perform as a famous band). For example.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:28 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If a person chooses to tell dead baby jokes, I don’t think they actually like dead babies. But it does tell me that they have a morbid sense of humor and that reflects on them as a person.
I do too. I think the ability to laugh at, or see the humour in, pretty much anything is a sign of a mentally healthy human being while the taking of offense at a comedian, or their jokes is a sign of a mentally unstable person.
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Last edited by zooterkin; 7th May 2019 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Fixing broken tag
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:36 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
We accept that it's reasonable for music concert halls to not allow us to film/distribute any of the music being performed. Why are we so reluctant to accept the same from comedians?
Oh, people are okay with comedians doing it as long as it is a comic they like and not Louis CK. Basically a few uninformed SJWs who continue to stalk him.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:42 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
We accept that it's reasonable for music concert halls to not allow us to film/distribute any of the music being performed. Why are we so reluctant to accept the same from comedians?
We aren't generally reluctant to accept the same from comedians. Louis CK is a special case, as he has been targeted for un-personing the the #MeToo elites. So the things we would normally grant to a human being don't necessarily apply to him.
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Old 7th May 2019, 02:19 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Being a comedian means that you are telling jokes to make people laugh
In order to have been accurate, your post has to end here.

Everything you wrote afterwards applies only to certain comedic approaches, which not every comedian employs.
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