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Old 7th May 2019, 02:23 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Also, do you think that when someone makes “Dead Baby” jokes that they truly enjoy dead babies?
This doesn't even make sense; dead-baby jokes, as composed, don't actually assert or imply that the person telling them "enjoys dead babies". What is that phrase supposed to even mean?
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Old 7th May 2019, 03:19 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I do too. I think the ability to laugh at, or see the humour in, pretty much anything is a sign of a mentally healthy human being while the taking of offense at a comedian, or their jokes is a sign of a mentally unstable person.


I would agree but only so far. To stick with the dead baby jokes...sure, I can laugh -and have laughed- at the morbid surreal absurdity inherent in the premise of a verbal joke of that type. But present a realistic CGI depiction of such a joke...well, I’m not going to be laughing and I would find anyone who genuinely cracked up at such imagery at least a little mentally unstable.

I can’t imagine a circumstance where rape jokes are funny. Laughing at them would definitely be a troubling sign in my view.
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Old 7th May 2019, 03:34 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This doesn't even make sense; dead-baby jokes, as composed, don't actually assert or imply that the person telling them "enjoys dead babies". What is that phrase supposed to even mean?
Several weeks ago at the comedy club it was a very "tepid" audience, as described by one of the comics performing that night. (Sure, blame the customers, not your performance...) By the end of the night some of the regular performers had resorted to dead-baby jokes just to get some kind of rise out of the audience.

Even he mentioned that that meme was briefly popular in the 70s. At least among adolescent boys.
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:53 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Are you implying Colbert is not really a Fox News show host?

My life has been a lie!
Pssst. He retired that character in 2014 to take over from Letterman. He plays his comedy straight now.
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Old 7th May 2019, 07:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
But present a realistic CGI depiction of such a joke...well, I’m not going to be laughing and I would find anyone who genuinely cracked up at such imagery at least a little mentally unstable.
There is a reason they are called stand up comics:

Quote:
A joke is a display of humour in which words are used within a specific and well-defined narrative structure to make people laugh and is not meant to be taken seriously.
Quote:
I can’t imagine a circumstance where rape jokes are funny. Laughing at them would definitely be a troubling sign in my view.
I can. I have heard many good ones. As they are jokes, and by definition not meant to be taken seriously, they are not a troubling sign of anything. What is a troubling sign are those who take offence at any joke told by a comedian during a show.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:19 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Oh, people are okay with comedians doing it as long as it is a comic they like and not Louis CK. Basically a few uninformed SJWs who continue to stalk him.
If they don't like Louis Ck they can always not go see him.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:42 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That different comedy styles exist isn't something I have to be told. That's more along the lines of something somebody who says something like



or



...needs to learn. Because yes, being a comedian doesn't mean by default that you're playing a character and none of the political positions you take during a standup routine are genuine; in fact, some of the most famous comedians made their very names and reputations giving genuine opinions framed in a humorous way.

If you go back to what I said earlier; you'll notice that at the very beginning I already acknowledged that some comedians can be playing characters:



The point is, there needs to be some evidence, or otherwise a compelling reason to believe they're "playing a character". Spoiler alert: "But....they're....COMEDIANS! No comedian says what they really think - that's not what comedy is about!" is flat-out wrong, and therefore not sufficient evidence.
Why do I hear the theme from the Twilight Zone when I read this?
No-one is claiming all comedians get their material the same way except you.
You have cherry picked a couple of comedians and claim they represent all comedians. If that isn't bad enough - you then pretend you can read the minds of all comedians. Sorry - but that is an epic fail on so many levels.
Comedians think up jokes and refine them - as other posters have stated. For someone to state that one can determine what a person's true thoughts are by watching their comedy act is true comedy gold.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:47 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
If they don't like Louis Ck they can always not go see him.
What? Free choice? Nooooo!
How can we make sure that people don't laugh at the "wrong" jokes!
Life is not about laughing - it is about pointing fingers and tut-tutting other people's harmless fun.
Shut the window Mabel! Those darn neighbors are laughing at "All In The Family" again. Somebody needs to do something!
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Old 7th May 2019, 11:16 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yeah, Louis CK would hate it if someone whipped a phone out without caring if he was okay with it. He wants everyone to behave themselves and ask consent before doing something like that.
This thread should really just have ended with this post.

10/10, would read again.
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Old 8th May 2019, 12:20 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yeah, Louis CK would hate it if someone whipped a phone out without caring if he was okay with it. He wants everyone to behave themselves and ask consent before doing something like that.
As I recall, he actually did ask consent. The women just thought he was joking because 'hey, can I jerk it in front of you' is a somewhat bizarre request.
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Old 8th May 2019, 12:25 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Pssst. He retired that character in 2014 to take over from Letterman. He plays his comedy straight now.
I never thought his Fox News parody was very funny, possibly because I don't watch Fox news. I then completely lost interest and only watched clips od Interviews on Youtube here and there. Now that you mentioned it, these clips never included his Fox character.
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Old 8th May 2019, 02:24 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
You have cherry picked a couple of comedians and claim they represent all comedians.
Umm, no. Some people have made claims about the nature of all comedians - namely qayak. I picked a couple of comedians as examples to prove his description of how all comedians operate, is misinformed. Some comedians operate very differently.

Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
If that isn't bad enough - you then pretend you can read the minds of all comedians.
No...that is in fact very like the exact opposite of what I said:

Quote:
Because psychic mind-reading powers aren't real, the best evidence we have for what a person believes is what they express with their own speech.
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Old 8th May 2019, 02:53 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I would agree but only so far. To stick with the dead baby jokes...sure, I can laugh -and have laughed- at the morbid surreal absurdity inherent in the premise of a verbal joke of that type. But present a realistic CGI depiction of such a joke...well, I’m not going to be laughing and I would find anyone who genuinely cracked up at such imagery at least a little mentally unstable.

I can’t imagine a circumstance where rape jokes are funny. Laughing at them would definitely be a troubling sign in my view.

Why is rape worse than dead babies?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:32 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Part of the reason for this is that many stand-up tours involve working on “bits” that improve and morph over time with some (very popular and successful) comedians such as Louis CK and Rogan intending to put their material in their final form on their Netflix specials. If the jokes have already leaked these specials will just look like old material. Another reason for this is the problem of joke theft which is rife and is often perpetrated by “writers” for late night talk show hosts.

Either way, i don’t think many comedians want their jokes shared in their rough and ready form and certainly don’t want them shared without attribution.
One good thing about living in London is that well-known comedians will often do "work in progress" gigs in small cheap venues. These are great, because they'll interact more with the audience as part of routine-honing process, but they do tend to be more up-front and direct about the "no recording" rule, because it's material that's either going to be on TV or part of a stadium tour in the near future.

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Old 8th May 2019, 06:25 AM   #95
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The only review I can find is from the local newspaper site, which requires a paid subscription. Can't even look at one article, even with AdBlock off.

**** that.
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Old 8th May 2019, 06:46 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Umm, no. Some people have made claims about the nature of all comedians - namely qayak. I picked a couple of comedians as examples to prove his description of how all comedians operate, is misinformed. Some comedians operate very differently.
You failed miserably. All comedians tell jokes and jokes are not to be taken seriously. The issue is that SJWs think that whatever the outrage topic of the day is, is off limits. In Louis CK's case SJWs think the comic himself should be off limits.

Quote:
No...that is in fact very like the exact opposite of what I said:
Actually, it is exactly what you said. You stated you could tell the difference between which comedian was serious about their jokes, Louis CK, and which were only joking about their jokes, Jimmy Carr. That's reading minds.
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:17 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
You failed miserably. All comedians tell jokes and jokes are not to be taken seriously. The issue is that SJWs think that whatever the outrage topic of the day is, is off limits. In Louis CK's case SJWs think the comic himself should be off limits.
....
"SJWs?" You're misstating the issue. I repeat, CK's career thrived, despite the edgy subjects of his comedy. That was his trademark. What sunk him is the revelation of his abusive conduct toward real women in the real world.
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Old 8th May 2019, 12:47 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
"SJWs?" You're misstating the issue. I repeat, CK's career thrived, despite the edgy subjects of his comedy. That was his trademark. What sunk him is the revelation of his abusive conduct toward real women in the real world.
His getting consent to expose himself and masturbate from women prior to his exposing himself and masturbating in front of has what to do with this?

Louis CK's shows are hilarious but should he ask my permission to expose himself and masturbate in front of me, I will just say "No thanks." That's what adults do.
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Old 8th May 2019, 02:09 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
His getting consent to expose himself and masturbate from women prior to his exposing himself and masturbating in front of has what to do with this?
....

Again, not accurate. Coercion and intimidation don't require physical force, as he himself has acknowledged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/a...isconduct.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/a...statement.html
https://pagesix.com/2017/12/11/tig-n...duct-long-ago/

And what it has do with this are the comments claiming that his career was damaged by the tone of his comedy. His edgy comedy made him a star; what wrecked his career were numerous reports of his real-life misconduct.
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:02 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Again, not accurate. Coercion and intimidation don't require physical force, as he himself has acknowledged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/a...isconduct.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/a...statement.html
https://pagesix.com/2017/12/11/tig-n...duct-long-ago/

And what it has do with this are the comments claiming that his career was damaged by the tone of his comedy. His edgy comedy made him a star; what wrecked his career were numerous reports of his real-life misconduct.
Don't bother. Many of his fans have decided that he was always upfront and direct with the women to whom he exposed himself and that he never relied on any power differential to extort consent from those who would otherwise have declined. It's just like Cosby: CK can't possibly be guilty of anything illegal if he isn't convicted and sent to prison, and even if he did get convicted it would have been due to unjust treatment at the hands of the "SJWs."
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:05 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Don't bother. Many of his fans have decided that he was always upfront and direct with the women to whom he exposed himself and that he never relied on any power differential to extort consent...
What power did he have over them?

Was he their bosses' bosses' bosses' bosses' boss? (Poor Monica.)

Was he in their chain of command?

Was he in a position to grant bail or parole?
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Old 8th May 2019, 03:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What power did he have over them?

Was he their bosses' bosses' bosses' bosses' boss? (Poor Monica.)

Was he in their chain of command?

Was he in a position to grant bail or parole?
Well, for one, he was in a position to choose openers, potentially more than one per show depending on the venue. It would have required very little effort for him to use his power as a top-tier headliner to see that a particular comedian is no longer welcome at a particular club. As an executive producer of television shows (not just his own), he had more tangible power over a great many employees, including actors/comedians.

Or are we supposed to pretend that he was just another hard-working road comic, no different from a Todd Glass or an Emma Arnold?
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:52 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I never thought his Fox News parody was very funny, possibly because I don't watch Fox news. I then completely lost interest and only watched clips od Interviews on Youtube here and there. Now that you mentioned it, these clips never included his Fox character.
The character wasn't a parody of Fox News specifically, but of conservative pundits in general, and it predated him having his own show. If you didn't like the character, you may be more impressed by him as a person on the Late Show.
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Old 8th May 2019, 08:22 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Again, not accurate. Coercion and intimidation don't require physical force, as he himself has acknowledged.
Coercion and intimidation? Where? Sarah Silverman stated that he would just up and ask if he could do it. Sometimes she said "yes" and sometimes she said "no" with no reprecussions from Louis CK.
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Old 8th May 2019, 08:40 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Well, for one, he was in a position to choose openers, potentially more than one per show depending on the venue. It would have required very little effort for him to use his power as a top-tier headliner to see that a particular comedian is no longer welcome at a particular club. As an executive producer of television shows (not just his own), he had more tangible power over a great many employees, including actors/comedians.

Or are we supposed to pretend that he was just another hard-working road comic, no different from a Todd Glass or an Emma Arnold?
I don't buy it. These people have the ability to say "no." If they didn't they would all have been doing the shows for free because they were being coerced by Louis CK's power and afraid of being black listed.

I think the Russsian actress had the most intelligent comment on this: "If you sleep with someone to get a job and you get the job you have nothing to complain about. You're an adult, you can say 'no.'" (paraphrase)
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Old 8th May 2019, 09:14 PM   #106
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Who cares? Go to the show if you like Louie. Don't go to the show if you don't like Louie. Regardless, if you DO go to the show you should film it just out of spite. The End.
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Old 8th May 2019, 10:22 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Coercion and intimidation? Where? Sarah Silverman stated that he would just up and ask if he could do it. Sometimes she said "yes" and sometimes she said "no" with no reprecussions from Louis CK.

What Silverman is describing is essentially a consensual sex act between two friends and professional equals, going back to before they were big names. She herself condemns how CK treated other women.
Quote:
“He wielded his power with women in f—ed up ways, sometimes to the point where they left comedy entirely,” she said.
https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/sar...ed-1202988208/

Quote:
"....the only people that matter right now are the victims. They are victims, and they’re victims because of something he did.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/a...ad-things.html

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Old 9th May 2019, 12:34 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Coercion and intimidation? Where? Sarah Silverman stated that he would just up and ask if he could do it. Sometimes she said "yes" and sometimes she said "no" with no reprecussions from Louis CK.
What a weird guy.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:38 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
What a weird guy.
I saw his show at the DC Improv. It was just uncomfortable to listen to. Maybe that's edgy but I didn't think so. He told a story about having non-genital sex in the nursery for their yet to be born child with his pregnant wife. There was nothing really funny about it. I was just sitting there thinking that I have no desire to know this.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:06 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I saw his show at the DC Improv. It was just uncomfortable to listen to. Maybe that's edgy but I didn't think so. He told a story about having non-genital sex in the nursery for their yet to be born child with his pregnant wife. There was nothing really funny about it. I was just sitting there thinking that I have no desire to know this.
Yeah, uncomfortable humour is his brand.
I saw him mimicking how he as an overweight balding man has bad sex. And it was hilarious. But I can just as easily see something like that falling flat, and then you're just left with the embarrassment.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:08 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
What a weird guy.
Well yeah, but there are a lot of weird people out there.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:10 AM   #112
qayak
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What Silverman is describing is essentially a consensual sex act between two friends and professional equals, going back to before they were big names. She herself condemns how CK treated other women.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/sar...ed-1202988208/



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/a...ad-things.html
Sarah Silverman claims to have witnessed this and yet she did SFA about it? Why hasn't her career been affected? She was Louis CK's equal so her inaction condoned his action.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:50 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Sarah Silverman claims to have witnessed this and yet she did SFA about it? Why hasn't her career been affected? She was Louis CK's equal so her inaction condoned his action.
You're really turning into a pretzel to make excuses for CK. She and Silverman were long-time friends; what she tolerated from him has nothing to do with his offensive behavior as a star with women he didn't know, and who might feel that he could hurt their careers.
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:32 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Again, not accurate. Coercion and intimidation don't require physical force, as he himself has acknowledged.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/a...isconduct.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/a...statement.html
https://pagesix.com/2017/12/11/tig-n...duct-long-ago/
In a controversy like this, there often comes a point where an individual or organization must think very carefully about what kind of public statement is most likely to salvage their business. A properly-delivered apology can have a beneficial effect for the accused, even if it is insincere.

Therefore I don't put much stock in self-serving admissions of guilt, in cases where guilt is either not provable as fact, or is a matter of subjective value judgement. Even a child can figure out the value of sometimes saying "I'm sorry" even when they don't agree that they have anything to apologize for.

(This is also why I consider certain harsh interrogation methods a valid tool for gathering intelligence in some situations, but would never consider them a valid tool for criminal justice proceedings.)

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Old 9th May 2019, 02:14 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In a controversy like this, there often comes a point where an individual or organization must think very carefully about what kind of public statement is most likely to salvage their business. A properly-delivered apology can have a beneficial effect for the accused, even if it is insincere.

Therefore I don't put much stock in self-serving admissions of guilt, in cases where guilt is either not provable as fact, or is a matter of subjective value judgement. Even a child can figure out the value of sometimes saying "I'm sorry" even when they don't agree that they have anything to apologize for.
....
What? He didn't apologize vaguely for "anything I may have done to offend anybody." He admitted that he routinely engaged in the specific behavior that he was accused of by specific named women and others. You can minimize his conduct, but you can't claim that there's any doubt about what he did.
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Old 9th May 2019, 02:19 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What? He didn't apologize vaguely for "anything I may have done to offend anybody." He admitted that he routinely engaged in the specific behavior that he was accused of by specific named women and others. You can minimize his conduct, but you can't claim that there's any doubt about what he did.
Sure, he can. He just claimed that apologies can be made out of pure self-interest, so not only might he be lying about being sorry, he might be lying about everything just to shut people up.
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12/0

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Old 9th May 2019, 02:28 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What? He didn't apologize vaguely for "anything I may have done to offend anybody." He admitted that he routinely engaged in the specific behavior that he was accused of by specific named women and others. You can minimize his conduct, but you can't claim that there's any doubt about what he did.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/a...?module=inline

He didn't just admit to the events. He admitted to a specific interpretation of the events. He stipulated his accuser's interpretation of the events. I'm not saying that interpretation is wrong. I'm simply saying that him agreeing to it isn't evidence that it's right. He was in a situation where he stood to benefit from agreeing to that interpretation whether he believed it or not. You citing his agreement doesn't support the claim that his accusers are correct in their interpretation, for me.
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:08 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You're really turning into a pretzel to make excuses for CK. She and Silverman were long-time friends; what she tolerated from him has nothing to do with his offensive behavior as a star with women he didn't know, and who might feel that he could hurt their careers.
I'm not making excuses for anyone or anything. What Silverman tolerated is in fact pertinent to the situation. In the quote offered Silverman said:

“He wielded his power with women in f—ed up ways, sometimes to the point where they left comedy entirely,”

So she was a party to it and did nothing.

As for what Louis CK did, I don't really care. He was given consent by adults who knew what the consequences would be. They made a choice to watch him masturbate to further their career and they furthered their career.
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Old 10th May 2019, 09:05 AM   #119
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I dunno, man. That seems like a bit of a stretch. You say that she "was a party to it and did nothing", but what's your evidence for that? The fact that he did it to her doesn't mean that she knew he was doing it to all and sundry. She may have only found out at the same time the rest of us did.

And then you say that the people he did do it to gave their consent and furthered their career. How can you have your comedy career furthered if you leave comedy entirely, as Silverman said they did?
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Old 10th May 2019, 10:10 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I dunno, man. That seems like a bit of a stretch. You say that she "was a party to it and did nothing", but what's your evidence for that? The fact that he did it to her doesn't mean that she knew he was doing it to all and sundry. She may have only found out at the same time the rest of us did.

And then you say that the people he did do it to gave their consent and furthered their career. How can you have your comedy career furthered if you leave comedy entirely, as Silverman said they did?
She said: “He wielded his power with women in f—ed up ways, sometimes to the point where they left comedy entirely."

She knew.
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