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Old 26th September 2018, 12:05 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Nonsense! "Idle" is the enemy of the good!






I can't really see in the photo but are the carbs bolted to the crankcase? So it's a <<SNEER>> two-stroke?! Ah, the dulcet sound of a opposed four two-stroke right behind your head.*


*I just noticed that the pipes aren't tuned so maybe not a two-stroke.
I don't know about that particular instance, but a lot of ultra-light aircraft use two strokes. They're dirty, loud, and not very efficient, but you can't beat them for power to weight ratio, which is pretty important for ultra-lights.
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Old 26th September 2018, 01:45 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Rebuilding carbs wasn't terribly difficult. You just took it apart, cleaned anything that had crud or varnish on it, and put it back together, replacing the stuff that was in the rebuild kit (mostly gaskets, o-rings and the valve that the float shut off). There were a lot of small parts that you had to be careful not to lose or leave out when reassembling. If you had parts left over, you probably messed up somewhere.
That last bit depends on the kit. I recall many carb kits came with parts for more than one version - either variants of a common basic type, or small changes with age, and thus there were always a few gaskets and the like left over, that were meant for one of the other variants of a similar carburetor. The main thing was to make sure that all old parts that came out either went back in or were replaced.
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Old 26th September 2018, 01:59 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I don't know about that particular instance, but a lot of ultra-light aircraft use two strokes. They're dirty, loud, and not very efficient, but you can't beat them for power to weight ratio, which is pretty important for ultra-lights.
They ain't got no soul.

Robbie Coltrane explains ...

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Goto 0:35 to 2:44
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Old 10th October 2018, 03:58 PM   #124
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Sort of fun using the "carb selector" (scroll down).
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...s/carburetors/

Incidentally, I knew they bought out Demon, but it looks like they have something to do with Quickfuel now also.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 01:40 AM   #125
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"New" company. Looks like they are based on the Holley design.

http://fstcarb.com/product-category/carburetors/
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Old 3rd February 2019, 03:01 AM   #126
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Skinners Union (SU) is still around mainly making parts and replacement carbs for Brit cars. Under a different owner now though.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:41 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by HghrSymmetry View Post
"New" company. Looks like they are based on the Holley design.

http://fstcarb.com/product-category/carburetors/
Quote:
This store is under construction — no orders shall be fulfilled.
And every product is $299.95
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Old 3rd February 2019, 12:24 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And every product is $299.95
http://fstcarb.com/
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Old 3rd February 2019, 02:28 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
Skinners Union (SU) is still around mainly making parts and replacement carbs for Brit cars. Under a different owner now though.
I'm reminded here of a blurb on a book long ago by Robert Paul Smith (back in the 50's he wrote a best seller about growing up, called Where did you go? Nowhere. What did you do? Nothing.), in which among his qualifications it was mentioned that he could adjust twin SU carburetors. An art worth mentioning.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 04:45 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I'm reminded here of a blurb on a book long ago by Robert Paul Smith (back in the 50's he wrote a best seller about growing up, called Where did you go? Nowhere. What did you do? Nothing.), in which among his qualifications it was mentioned that he could adjust twin SU carburetors. An art worth mentioning.
Like fixing Lucas electricals?
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Old 3rd February 2019, 05:12 PM   #131
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Like the old joke about Lucas switches having three positions: Off, intermittent and smoke.

Most of the problems I've encountered were bad grounds or bad connections and they can be tough to track down so I can see how Lucas got the reputation. The other problem is the cars tend to be underfused. My TR6 has three fuses and the Spitfire two.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 05:50 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
Like the old joke about Lucas switches having three positions: Off, intermittent and smoke.

Most of the problems I've encountered were bad grounds or bad connections and they can be tough to track down so I can see how Lucas got the reputation. The other problem is the cars tend to be underfused. My TR6 has three fuses and the Spitfire two.
Part of it is not so much Lucas itself, I think, as an English way of doing things. Long ago, a friend of mine befriended the owner of what was for a while the Lotus distributorship in the US, in Millerton NY. There was a massive recall of Europas when it was discovered that their alternators were too weak. He was presented with a big box of brand-new British Delco alternators, quite OK. Some years later, needing to rebuild the the Delco in my Pontiac, I got one of them. It looked just the same. But it turned out first of all to have a pulley-end bearing half the size of any US Delco. A little further investigation revealed also that the connection lug for the ground, brass on a US Delco, was made of steel, which in dry storage had corroded to zero conductivity.

Old joke: Why do the English drink warm beer?
Lucas refrigerators.


Not only an English problem, though. This same friend was also known as a collector of old VW's and people would often give theirs to them when they were not worth selling. One had a rather nice Squareback which had been in and out of shops all over for running on only two of its four cylinders. My friend asked if they'd be offended if he fiddled with it before taking it. It had already been replaced, so no problem. Knowing the breed, he reached in, twiddled a single ground connection, and drove off on all four.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 06:30 PM   #133
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I had a 73 Squareback that had the Bosch FI system. That was really the first fully electronic system and was shared between Type III VW's and Mercedes. The Mercedes though got two of the control units as opposed to the VW single. It was kind of a crap shoot some cars were good and worked well and some prone to failure with odd quirky things like bad connections. My best friend had a Fastback for many years and it ran quite well up until she got rid of it four or five years ago.

The funny thing with Lucas is Rolls Royce used Lucas electrics for most of it's production. Not sure if they went with Bosch when RR was sold to BMW. Of course RR used SU carbs on them as well, at least until they started using BMW engines not sure about after that. So all the typical jokes have a big exception. Of course very few people fiddled with the carbs in a RR where in an MG it was twist anything that moves.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 08:53 PM   #134
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750 CFM RT Plus Carburetor Vacuum Secondary • Electric Choke
$349.95 Part No: 41750P

600 CFM RT X Carburetor Vacuum Secondary • Electric Choke
$449.95 Part No: 41600X

750 CFM RT X Viper Carburetor
$699.95 Part No: 42750V

650 CFM Billet X-treme Carburetor • Vacuum Secondary
$699.95 Part No: 41650B

750 CFM Billet X-treme Pro Carburetor
$849.95 Part No: 41750B-2

750 CFM Billet Excess Carburetor
$1,099.95 Part No: 46750XSR

1450 CFM Billet Excess Pro Carburetor
$1,199.95 Part No: 46450XSP

Would consider EFI over a pot, at some of those prices.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 09:11 PM   #135
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You didn't need to worry about Lucas or SU problems if you had an RR back in the day. You had people to worry about that for you.
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Old 3rd February 2019, 10:48 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You didn't need to worry about Lucas or SU problems if you had an RR back in the day. You had people to worry about that for you.
There is also the possibility that RR spec'ed their stuff differently. For example, I had at various times a SAAB with Ate disk brakes, which rusted and jammed, failed to retract, and were a constant pain in the butt. I had a couple of VW buses with Ate brakes that jammed and rusted and dragged and were a pain in the butt. I also had a couple of old Mercedes with Ate brakes that worked beautifully for years and years. I asked someone once about this and was told, "Oh, the ones they make for Mercedes have chrome plated pistons."

It would not surprise me if RR told Lucas to take their steel electrical contacts and...well... put them somewhere other than in a RR.
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Old 4th February 2019, 11:02 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
Like the old joke about Lucas switches having three positions: Off, intermittent and smoke.

Most of the problems I've encountered were bad grounds or bad connections and they can be tough to track down so I can see how Lucas got the reputation. The other problem is the cars tend to be underfused. My TR6 has three fuses and the Spitfire two.
Must have been a British thing. I remember VW Beetles (which weren't overall great electrically) had four fuses for the headlights, one for high and low beam for each headlight. There was no way one fuse blowing could leave you in the dark, though I a suspect a short in the wrong place might have blown all the fuses.
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Old 4th February 2019, 12:45 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Must have been a British thing. I remember VW Beetles (which weren't overall great electrically) had four fuses for the headlights, one for high and low beam for each headlight. There was no way one fuse blowing could leave you in the dark, though I a suspect a short in the wrong place might have blown all the fuses.
Lucas Electrics - Get Home Before Dark ...
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:19 PM   #139
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The alternative in some cars, especially American ones, was a circuit breaker rather than a fuse. That had the amusing characteristic, when a short or overload occurred, of making all the headlights blink on and off. Older American cars had too weak a breaker to handle halogen headlights, one of those little lessons you don't learn until the trip home in the dark.
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Old 4th February 2019, 05:29 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Must have been a British thing. I remember VW Beetles (which weren't overall great electrically) had four fuses for the headlights, one for high and low beam for each headlight. There was no way one fuse blowing could leave you in the dark, though I a suspect a short in the wrong place might have blown all the fuses.
Air cooled VW (and later water cooled) used Bosch electrics as did most of the German marques. I believe Saab used them as well. They had the open ceramic fuses and as you point out everything had a fuse. Something had to be seriously wrong to leave you stranded.
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Old 4th February 2019, 08:28 PM   #141
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I had a '69 SAAB 99, which had a completely bizarre set of electrics, not all remembered now, but in addition to a Stromberg carburetor which was nearly impossible either to tune or to find parts for, with little thermal doohickeys for emission control, and a tendency to vapor-lock, it had a unique British Delco distributor. The engine in the original 99 was actually half a Triumph Stag V8 made into a slant 4.

Some time after I sold it, someone I met at a parts store remarked casually that the carbureted 99's all had this problem, and that it was covered by a secret recall in which they drilled a hole somewhere in the carburetor. This was a very weird car, not least because it differed slightly from later models in some body details, and according to the local dealers the US line started in 1970 and mine did not exist. When the parking brake innards dissolved in a ball of rust, I had to special order them. It took about three months for them to arrive. I never found the glass for the rear window someone smashed in order to steal all the tools I had in it, left hurriedly after fixing the clutch lever on a '70 99, which had just snapped clean in half. That one belonged to my mom for a brief period, and had the interesting feature that its early Bosch fuel injection dropped dead in the vicinity of police radio repeaters. My dad had originally bought it, being a devoté of the old two-stroke models, and made the mistake of using the freewheeling feature. The bottom end of the engine went out at 11 thousand miles, no warranty. I had no such problem on mine, because the freewheeling was broken by the time I got it.

My '95 Jeep had a Lucas distributor! Is it necessary even to mention that the innards failed? The 87, 89, 93 and 99 Jeeps all had distributors in which one could simply remove the electronic hall effect sensor and replace it, about a ten minute job. On the 95, you had to take the distributor out and apart. Like the Sheik of Araby, the Prince of Darkness creeps at night into your tent.
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Old 5th February 2019, 02:06 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
adjust twin SU carburetors. An art worth mentioning.
I once bought a Volvo (62 or 63) for 1 dollar. The deal was if I could get it running I could have the car. The torsion spring on one of the twin SU carbs was broken. I took a random extension spring out of a nuts and bolts jar and stretched it until the tension seemed right. (same as the other side) hooked it on another part of the engine.

It worked. I drove home in it.

That car eventually ended up with a broom handle extension on the accelerator linkage and many other "non standard" assemblages. But it ran just fine the day I gave it back to the original owner 2 years later.

Edit to add. Oops, this thread is so old I just ninja'd myself! Sorry for the double post years apart :P
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Old 5th February 2019, 06:26 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
The torsion spring on one of the twin SU carbs was broken.
I bought a new MG Midget in 1966. Never expected it to be a “muscle car”, but Lordy was it slow.

Turns out the linkage between the SU’s was loose, so the engine was only being fed by one. Fixing it did not transform it into a muscle car, but made it a lot more drivable!

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Old 5th February 2019, 08:26 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
I once bought a Volvo (62 or 63) for 1 dollar. The deal was if I could get it running I could have the car. The torsion spring on one of the twin SU carbs was broken. I took a random extension spring out of a nuts and bolts jar and stretched it until the tension seemed right. (same as the other side) hooked it on another part of the engine.

It worked. I drove home in it.

That car eventually ended up with a broom handle extension on the accelerator linkage and many other "non standard" assemblages. But it ran just fine the day I gave it back to the original owner 2 years later.

Edit to add. Oops, this thread is so old I just ninja'd myself! Sorry for the double post years apart :P
I'd forgotten that those old Volvos had SU's. The later ones between 68 and whenever they got fuel injection had a pair of Strombergs instead, I think. I'm not entirely sure since the only one I got really close to was on fire owing to a carburetor malfunction. It is hard to remember what one has recounted before, but....

In later years, I did have a Volvo - an 81 244 Wagon, bought cheaply because it needed a tuneup so badly it barely ran. The reason soon became apparent - the distributor was seized into the engine. I ended up utterly destroying the distributor, which was made of chewably soft aluminum. Failing at that, I threaded the shaft and tried using a slide hammer (no go), and finally ended up drilling it out piece by piece. As usual, it seems, the model I had was unique, as for one year only they had not used a Bosch distributor, but a Chrysler one. The painstaking removal took hours, and it took a couple of days of touring local junkyards to find the one that was left and not also seized in. It's become a kind of house joke, "the Volvo syndrome," as I had blithely told my wife I was going to go time the Volvo and I should be done in about 15 minutes.

That car also had an interesting, and common for some years, problem of first having constant issues with wiring, as they apparently used some new plastic for the sheathing, and one would lose a power window, or a transmission overdrive, or a light, etc., and find that the plastic had cracked and the wire snapped. In addition the fuses tended to corrode, and the car would suddenly die. For some reason the one controlling the fuel injection dropped out constantly. After a while I got used to it. Just before the car dropped dead, the tachometer would drop to zero, and I'd reach down to the fuse box (cover thrown away) and twiddle it until the tach came back to life.

I actually really liked that car, which was ugly with rust and disreputable as could be, but luxuriously nice to ride in, with leather seats and power accessories. And I owe it one other thing: at some point in its long checkered repair history, it had been given a "Turbo" tailgate, despite not being a turbo, and following a long history of modifying labels (I also had at various times a Plymouth Violent, a Scout with All Hell Drive, A Jeep Choker and a VW Rab) I relabeled it "bruTo" ("ugly" in Spanish), and later when I needed a handle for internet forums, it became, as we see, mine.
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Old 5th February 2019, 10:53 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I'd forgotten that those old Volvos had SU's. The later ones between 68 and whenever they got fuel injection had a pair of Strombergs instead, I think. I'm not entirely sure since the only one I got really close to was on fire owing to a carburetor malfunction. It is hard to remember what one has recounted before, but....

In later years, I did have a Volvo - an 81 244 Wagon, bought cheaply because it needed a tuneup so badly it barely ran. The reason soon became apparent - the distributor was seized into the engine. I ended up utterly destroying the distributor, which was made of chewably soft aluminum. Failing at that, I threaded the shaft and tried using a slide hammer (no go), and finally ended up drilling it out piece by piece. As usual, it seems, the model I had was unique, as for one year only they had not used a Bosch distributor, but a Chrysler one. The painstaking removal took hours, and it took a couple of days of touring local junkyards to find the one that was left and not also seized in. It's become a kind of house joke, "the Volvo syndrome," as I had blithely told my wife I was going to go time the Volvo and I should be done in about 15 minutes.

That car also had an interesting, and common for some years, problem of first having constant issues with wiring, as they apparently used some new plastic for the sheathing, and one would lose a power window, or a transmission overdrive, or a light, etc., and find that the plastic had cracked and the wire snapped. In addition the fuses tended to corrode, and the car would suddenly die. For some reason the one controlling the fuel injection dropped out constantly. After a while I got used to it. Just before the car dropped dead, the tachometer would drop to zero, and I'd reach down to the fuse box (cover thrown away) and twiddle it until the tach came back to life.

I actually really liked that car, which was ugly with rust and disreputable as could be, but luxuriously nice to ride in, with leather seats and power accessories. And I owe it one other thing: at some point in its long checkered repair history, it had been given a "Turbo" tailgate, despite not being a turbo, and following a long history of modifying labels (I also had at various times a Plymouth Violent, a Scout with All Hell Drive, A Jeep Choker and a VW Rab) I relabeled it "bruTo" ("ugly" in Spanish), and later when I needed a handle for internet forums, it became, as we see, mine.

I had a '72 142, that was the year they came out with fuel injection as standard equip. The injectors had a tendency to go out like light bulbs, and there were fuel filters built into them which you could only test by taking each one out and running gas through it, timing the flow rate. The whole mess was controlled by a black box controller under the passenger seat. It could only be tested by swapping it out with a "known good unit". (Seriously, that's what the Hayes manual said.)

Tune-up required taking it in to someone with the right kind of magical Sun machine. It wasn't anything I could do in my garage, which meant that at least once a year I had to pay someone else more money than seemed reasonable to do a tune-up I should have been able to do myself.

Fortunately there was an aftermarket conversion kit, complete with a Holley-Weber two barrel carb, an intake manifold, a Mallory dual-point distributor, a mechanical fuel pump, and a new cam shaft. For bonus points you could either have the head planed down to put the compression ratio back up to where it was before, because with the addition of fuel injection they had also lowered the compression ratio, or (as I eventually did) swap the head out for one from an earlier 140 series. Aside from the injection system the engines were basically identical.

The whole kit was surprisingly inexpensive.

For extra cuteness the best way to block off the injector holes in the head after the conversion was to clamp a well sealed nickel (which just happened to be the exact right size for the job) over them. This would often elicit a question when someone happened to be looking at the engine. I told them it was so the thing would always be worth at least twenty cents.

The Bosch alternator which was stock was also a PITA, for a number of reasons I won't whine about right now.

After some exploring around a friendly local salvage yard I managed to find a swing arm off of a GM of some model that with a bit of grinding and shimming let me fit a stock GM Delco alternator. Those are common as dirt and were dirt cheap to replace.

After all that, my gas mileage improved dramatically, and I didn't have any significant problems with the car for close to two decades.
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Old 5th February 2019, 01:24 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
Air cooled VW (and later water cooled) used Bosch electrics as did most of the German marques. I believe Saab used them as well. They had the open ceramic fuses and as you point out everything had a fuse. Something had to be seriously wrong to leave you stranded.
The weak point was the spade connectors that they used everywhere. They tended to oxidize. This was especially problematic on the six volt systems, as the connectors would eventually have about as much resistance as the load, so the load was getting three volts instead of six.
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Old 5th February 2019, 06:10 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
The weak point was the spade connectors that they used everywhere. They tended to oxidize. This was especially problematic on the six volt systems, as the connectors would eventually have about as much resistance as the load, so the load was getting three volts instead of six.
Not just those, but many other cars and nationalities. My first couple of old Peugeots had all their connections with nuts, but later they and others went to spade connectors, and I spent a good bit of my youth crawling around under rusty cars tweaking connectors so the horns and headlights and brake lights and so on would start working again.

One of the things about those resistive connections is that the resistance gets worse as they heat up, so things that work when you start out stop working on the road.
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Old 5th February 2019, 11:38 PM   #148
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Speaking of old cars (old cars with carburetors, in fact), I just read that the long-defunct Borgward brand has been revived. The news seems a few years old, but they're still operating a web site. Their headquarters is in Stuttgart, Germany, and the web site coyly omits the fact that the ownership is Chinese. No plans to come back to the US; the collapse of the US dealer network was one of the contributors to their bankruptcy in 1961.

They once made some very nice and well designed cars.
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